Tonyrichard

Good one Mr Taxi driver, hope you get a reward

Yes, it is heart-warming to read of such honesty and kindliness. I hope that this good taxi-driver got more than just a hug from the HK man. If it were me, I would have given him a couple of thousand baht to express my appreciation. Honesty like this needs to be praised and encouraged.

I can't see it hapening.....too much loss of face?

I agree that it is extremely unlikely that the charges will be dropped - for the reasons TPI has mentioned. Also, the decision has already been made to announce the final judicial verdict on 24 December. This is clearly and cynically planned for a day and a period of the year when most Westerners will be distracted by Christmas activities. This choice of date alone makes it abundantly clear to me that the decision of a 'guilty' verdict has already been made. It will be smuggled out when most Westerners (who are especially interested in this case, as it was two Brits who were slaughtered) will be busy with their family and Christmas duties. Does this make you feel the nausea of disgust?

How pathetic.

Since there is no election in sight any time soon, can I assume that the PM will be making complete reform of the RTP his #1 priority?

'One of the suspects ... to re-enact his crime'. Here we go again. Remember Koh Tao?

You shouldn't really be too surprised at the silence from the expat community on Koh Tao, as a great deal of them are there without the correct paperwork to be there, and to be working, no work permits or visa, this is a very small community who will watch over each others backs, in other words, play nice, and play ball, you will have no dramas.. upset the apple cart and it's a long way to the mainland. I met a reiki masseuse, who had been on Samui for a couple of years, and was looking to relocate to KT, I asked he about the WP's and Visa, and she smiled wryly, it's all about who you know.

The inhabitants of Koh Tao share alarming similarities of the inhabitants of Pitcairn Island, and the Orkney Islands once the child abuse cases hit the mainstream media, all of a sudden people knew nothing.. I don't blame them really, self preservation is pretty evident.

I always thought it was a really nice island, and it seemed to have a pretty "friendly" atmosphere, I was quite surprised however about just how the Island was run, outside it looks quite idyllic, inside, I do believe there's a genuine fear amongst some of the expat community down there.

I said this yesterday, this is nothing more than a sideshow, a token trial, if this is the best the RTP and the prosecution could come up with after the case being submitted 4-5 times, then it's very obvious of the outcome, the blanket ban on reporting is also pretty disgusting, as it's not about justice for Hannah and David, it's about maintaining the image of the Island in the name of tourism, and that folks, is going all the way to the very top.

This isn't a murder trial, this is face saving, damage limitation at it's very worst, the lives of these two young people mean nothing to Thailand, but the revenue lost to bad publicity in the name of tourism means so much more, especially in a wobbling economy.

Agree with you, Fat Haggis. In connection with the protection of Koh Tao's pristine, spotless image and reputation for tourism, something that no one seems so far to have noticed: the Wikipedia article on Koh Tao bears no reference to these horrible crimes whatsoever. There is mention of the dangers of motorcycles on the island - but nothing regarding a different type of danger lurking there (Hannah and David were not the first or only victims). This silence on a major historical event on the island is of course highly significant and eloquent. Someone tried in early March to mention the Koh Tao murders on the Wikipedia page about the island - but predictably someone (with a vested interest?) removed that information, giving a totally unconvincing, feeble excuse for such censorship. So we see that control of the flow of true information about Koh Tao is even being exerted into the pages of the world's biggest and most consulted encyclopedia. Very telling, very eloquent silence!

Also agree with great chieftain o' the pudding race but to digress, I just breezed through the Koh Tao Wiki-travel page and there is a mention of the murders and the mafia elements, drugs and deaths in the main paragraph. If there hadn't, I'd have been tempted to try my first wiki-edit.

I'm not sure which article mentions the Koh Tao murders, etc, but all I can say is that I've just re-checked the main Wikipedia "Ko Tao" article, and I can see nothing about these events there. The link is this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko_Tao

Maybe I've overlooked something? I don't think so - but I'm willing to be proved wrong. Remember that I am speaking about Wikipedia - not any other 'wiki' information page. Wikipedia is the main source of information for most things on the Internet - usually one of the topmost sites given in any Google search of a main topic area. If I am right, it is highly significant that the Wikipedia article remains steadfastly silent regarding the rape and slaughter on Koh Tao.

More BS.... I worked on trying to gain evidence who the phone belonged to. I have a copy of the file.

It is a mute point that the phone did or didn't belong to David, lets assume that it did, then there will be up to 4 peoples DNA and finger prints on it, the first is obvious Davids, then if the testimony is true it will also have the DNA of the guy who dumped it and at least one of the accused, I have heard nothing reported by the police that they tested this phone for anything, the police claim they found it smashed up in the bushes - how convenient

This is direct from my source within the court yesterday and I quote ok...

"The phone was apparently returned from UK as UK refused to examine it. Police said yesterday IMEI number said to be David's. No written conf. Phone not presented as evidence in court. Just arrived at court in box."

Then a later update:

"First time phone was in court, 12 days into the trial. Prosecution say it is David's but no conclusive proof yet."

So the Thai police sent it to England and they returned it without an answer. and they will not answer as it beaches protocol in death sentence cases.

I worked on trying to get the info from the phone company and they kept kicking it back to the police. Despite the importance of finding out.

I for one want to know if they done it. I am not 100% sure if they had NO involvement in the case at all. There is so many theorys ... remember also that their mate worked in the AC bar. They left the guitar in the AC so they have a link to the AC bar. They are obviously known to the AC owners I don't doubt.

What I don't believe is these 2 guys did this on their own. The evidence I have seen and heard so far suggests they didn't.

You must also remember that they don't dispute they where on the beach. If the was closer to the AC and David and Hannah left there following a bust up and started to run whats the first thing you loose.

Your sunglasses hanging on your shirt and the phone bouncing around in your pocket??

Just an idea, What I cant believe is the absolute silence coming from the island.

No witnesses to the altercation in the bar. Nothing.... somebody has something to hide without doubt.....

Anyway <deleted> do I know?? perhaps a few things about evidence and UK witnesses. A little about the autopsy procedure as told to me by the case officer for Hannah without being specific about her case. Just procedure.. The location of Sean McAnna...Not enough to judge 2 men and whether they should die for this crime.

You shouldn't really be too surprised at the silence from the expat community on Koh Tao, as a great deal of them are there without the correct paperwork to be there, and to be working, no work permits or visa, this is a very small community who will watch over each others backs, in other words, play nice, and play ball, you will have no dramas.. upset the apple cart and it's a long way to the mainland. I met a reiki masseuse, who had been on Samui for a couple of years, and was looking to relocate to KT, I asked he about the WP's and Visa, and she smiled wryly, it's all about who you know.

The inhabitants of Koh Tao share alarming similarities of the inhabitants of Pitcairn Island, and the Orkney Islands once the child abuse cases hit the mainstream media, all of a sudden people knew nothing.. I don't blame them really, self preservation is pretty evident.

I always thought it was a really nice island, and it seemed to have a pretty "friendly" atmosphere, I was quite surprised however about just how the Island was run, outside it looks quite idyllic, inside, I do believe there's a genuine fear amongst some of the expat community down there.

I said this yesterday, this is nothing more than a sideshow, a token trial, if this is the best the RTP and the prosecution could come up with after the case being submitted 4-5 times, then it's very obvious of the outcome, the blanket ban on reporting is also pretty disgusting, as it's not about justice for Hannah and David, it's about maintaining the image of the Island in the name of tourism, and that folks, is going all the way to the very top.

This isn't a murder trial, this is face saving, damage limitation at it's very worst, the lives of these two young people mean nothing to Thailand, but the revenue lost to bad publicity in the name of tourism means so much more, especially in a wobbling economy.

Agree with you, Fat Haggis. In connection with the protection of Koh Tao's pristine, spotless image and reputation for tourism, something that no one seems so far to have noticed: the Wikipedia article on Koh Tao bears no reference to these horrible crimes whatsoever. There is mention of the dangers of motorcycles on the island - but nothing regarding a different type of danger lurking there (Hannah and David were not the first or only victims). This silence on a major historical event on the island is of course highly significant and eloquent. Someone tried in early March to mention the Koh Tao murders on the Wikipedia page about the island - but predictably someone (with a vested interest?) removed that information, giving a totally unconvincing, feeble excuse for such censorship. So we see that control of the flow of true information about Koh Tao is even being exerted into the pages of the world's biggest and most consulted encyclopedia. Very telling, very eloquent silence!

As the British police were specifically told that they could be observers ONLY and certainly not initiators of a fresh, independent investigation into the case and its handling, any information taken back to the grieving British families is likely to have been almost exclusively made up of what the Thai police told the British. This is not a sufficiently sound basis - for many analysts of this tragic case - to inspire confidence.

The single most damning piece of 'evidence' that the Thai police are likely to wave in the air at the trial is the DNA of the attackers. But since there is photographic and video evidence that proves that the crime scene was not secured against contamination (a point implicitly criticised by Thailand's leading DNA collection expert), and since even the gathering of the DNA was not carried out by qualified persons (another point highlighted with great disapprobation by that same Thai specialist), any DNA evidence wielded in court will literally have zero probative force and value. It is worthless. That leaves only vanishingly sparse circumstantial evidence (remember that the case was knocked back some five times by the public prosecutor) on which to find the Burmese guys guilty and then to sentence them to death (or, if they are lucky, to life imprisonment). Who could live with their conscience if they convicted fellow human beings to death on such a flimsy basis? There are those here who could and would - and probably will. Others will hear the words, 'Travesty of justice', ringing in their ears. Each person must decide for him or herself once all the evidence is out there in the public domain, during the course of the trial. But as posters on Thaivisa Forum - the power to pronounce sentence in a court of law, or to appear on a non-existent Thai jury, is of course wholly denied us.

There remains, however, the individual, internal MORAL court of law - where even 'Thai justice' can hold no sway.

So there may imminently be fewer Thai police? Good! Let us hope that the numbers dwindle down to zero - then there may be a chance for law, order and justice to be introduced into Thai life. The Koh Tao debacle has shown the Thai police in their true colours (and those colours are very dark indeed).

Whether it's human trafficking or copyright infringement or ______________, Thais spend all their energy fretting about being on such lists, and almost no energy actually cleaning up their dirty laundry.

What dirty laundry? This is normal life in Thailand. Heirs to fortune out and about after killing a police officer; motorcycles on the sidewalks endangering the lives of pedestrians; 3 and 4 people on a scooter without helmets and going the wrong way. Trash thrown in every corner, bags full of trash piled on the sidewalks that the soi dogs later shred. Soi dogs rampant all over the cities, littering: a clear sign of urban decay. Double standards to price and/or "protect" foreigners... etc., etc., etc. TIT nothing is wrong here except that Farang can't understand Thainess

Excellent posts, Pisico and Phetaroi - I agree with you 100%. Turning a blind eye to rank illegality is the Thai way - witness (as Pisico has) the ubiquitous and dangerous pavement-riding motorbikes in Bangkok, where the police do nothing about this reckless practice, and indeed drive along the pavements themselves! From this (and two-year-olds perched precariously on motorbikes) to ignoring human trafficking is all part of the same immoral continuum.

Any chance that this could include unauthorized motorcycles on the pavements?

Oh, how right you are: that would be a dream come true! These wretched pavement motorcyclists are a hazard to life and limb. The police etc. do nothing about them. In fact, I often see the police driving their own motor cycles along the 'pavements' (aka undulating, pot-holed rubbish tips). What hope is there?!! TIT.

Funny thing is Pattaya always gets bashed, yet its jammed packed every weekend.

Pattaya in fact does have more to offer if one bothers to look.

Of course if you travel here and stay near Walking St or Soi Buakhao, all you see is the red light district, HOWEVER

Pattaya DOES have everything for everyone, just need to open your eyes and move away from the certain areas

"everything for everyone"??????????????????????????

Does it have an opera house or a symphony orchestra?

(Mind you, in fairness, you could ask that question of the whole of Thailand. And, btw, how come Japan, Korea and China manage to supply some of the best classical (western) musicians in the whole world, while Thailand has scarcely even heard of Beethoven (or Hitler for that matter)?

I am assuming you are trying to joke, but will give it a serious answer.

Please name a city in Thailand which has opera house????

Also please name a city or place in Thailand which host's its own well known symphony orchestra?

PS, The topic is about Thailand, within Thailand, it is not about what China or Japan has, i am sure Vienna has great symphony orchestra and Sydney has a stunning one, but the discussion is NOT what other countries have or produced

Oh dear, that's precisely what I was saying: where in the whole of Thailand do you get things like opera houses (answer: nowhere) and why not? Why is Thailand so ignorant of the outside world? (Another thread or topic, granted, but not entirely off topic here, I would submit.)

But the poster was saying, Pattaya has "everything for everyone", which it patently doesn't.

Blazes, I completely agree with you on every point. As a great lover of classical music, I have often asked myself why Thailand has never (as far as I am aware) produced any great Western-classical musicians, in the way that China, Korea and Japan have. I think it is connected with the insularity of the Thai outlook, and the general aversion to, and difficulty in handling, anything abstract, profound, or 'intellectual' (Western classical music is, of course, very abstract and complex). On the specific point about Pattaya's being an example to all of Thailand: well, this has to be one huge joke, of course. How could anyone take such a claim seriously - even if Pattaya does have some good conferences? The surrounding environment is hardly a model to be adopted everywhere. As other posters have said, April Fool's Day comes every single day in the inane land of laughs!

It will be no joke when one of the posters making light of something clearly uncivilized is run over by a motorized vehicle and lands in hospital with injuries and a large bill to pay. Funny to speak of Zebras and lions and whitening cream but when that happens (it's only a matter of time) it will not be amusing anymore.

Bangkok is a megalopolis that has its attractiveness and it can be relaxing and unnerving at the same time. A city is not about buildings and roads but about the people who plan, live and manage it. Draw your own conclusions from this last statement.

Image, being first and foremost in Thailand, when a high number of casualties as a result of irresponsible traffic occurrences make the news around the world and the pocket books start hurting, only then (maybe) the powers that be will start thinking about doing something to mitigate (not solve) the image problem. It will truly be a miracle if that ever happens in this Amazing Thailand.

I agree with your postings on this point. The roads and the 'pavements' (bomb sites, in reality) are a real menace. I have been living in Thailand for some 4 years now (Bangkok) and always carry an umbrella jutting out from my side when I walk along the 'pavements' here, simply to protect at least one flank from the motorcyclists who at any moment can drive up from behind me on the pavement and do me an injury (brandishing an extended umbrella or tennis racquet is a good way to deter pavement-motorcylists from whizzing past you). I know of people who have been injured by these motorcyclists zooming along the pavements. The police also do it - so there is no hope of their stopping other offenders. It's one of the most irritating things of living in BKK to me: not being able to stroll along the pavements without having to watch your back (quite literally) the whole time: chaos reigns supreme on BKK streets. At first, as a tourist here, it's fun. But living, working and walking here - that's a different story!

I don't accept the more favourable statistics at all.

The survey is far to small to be of any accuracy or consequence. Equally, question your own experience of Thais' reading. I have never seen a Thai person carry a book let alone read one. I am not including students with coursebooks. Rather, persons with novels. Never seen it.

I've never seen a Thai read in a waiting room. Remember that such places including public offices have TVs showing whatever happens to be the day time programming. Unbelievable. How can any one concentrate in order to perform their job?

Then there is the quality of reading. That is not mentioned. Does it include staring at a bus ticket? It must include those comic books seen and carried everywhere.

Even the newsagents, book shops stock trash below the level of the European air port novel.

The '8 lines' remains acceptable in my eyes. The Thais remain an ill educated or uneducated superstitious people, backward in understanding and incapable of critical thinking. Whereas with many nations it is possible to find a common ground by way of arts, dance, music, painting or literature, with Thais it is not. Culturally bereft and intellectually challenged they are and will remain. This is partly due to being without conscience, morals or responsibilty. They have an education system that allows cheating and fails no one. That makes grading pointless.

The outcome? An illiterate people, incapable of speaking a second language, the second language and unable to write or read their own accurately.

Lottery numbers found on the hides of monitor lizards and a national newspaper that endorses such rubbish.

What do you expect?

Sadly, I have to agree with Housepainter. I have been well and truly shocked by the infantile level of culture and intellect amongst the Thai students whom I teach (at a 'good' university). The glorification of infantilism and stupidity seems endemic here (just go into any Tesco Lotus or Carrefour and listen to the inane ads which are broadcast over the loudspeakers - they seem to be aimed at four-year-olds). The system of Thai education seems to be terribly inadequate for the stimulation of a creative and thoughtful mind. The students are, by and large, lovely people - but critical reading and thinking, plus analysis, seem stellar years beyond most of them. It is all so very sad.

"The film's content goes against public order or morality," the board said yesterday.

That is a joke, there is no morality here. Only pretensions and scams.

And it is a disgrace that this movie is censored.

Agreed this is one of the more blatant shows of pathetic and useless hypocrisy

even by Land Of Shinola standards.

Completely agree. I am staggered at the schizoid attitude of so many Thai officials (whether in universities or government) towards the issue of gayness. On the one hand, Thailand must have just about more gays, ladyboys, and bisexuals than almost any other nation on earth (there must be something in the water, I sometimes think!), yet the official attitude is tantamount to: 'Don't speak about it - it doesn't exist'. Utter hypocrisy and idiocy. As a gay university lecturer myself, I am (pleasantly) astonished at how many of the students and 'faculty' at university are gay - and yet the whole subject is taboo and cannot be openly and freely discussed. It is truly a sick joke!

How about using the 30 billion to improve Bangkok infrastructure before spending money like this on a stupid idea like this....

Totally agree - complete lack of infrastructure - bloody floods eveytime it rains, so build a ferris wheel, at least you'll be dry if you're on top of it. But at least this ferris wheel builds on the great Thai tradition of - to lazy to think of our own idea, so we'll copy someone elses.

I wholly agree with you, Jonclark. It truly is pathetic how Thailand - which is singularly uncreative as a nation - just rips off other people's ideas. At least Britain (which for all its faults has been, for centuries, an extraordinarily inventive, intellectual and creative culture) came up with its own original London Eye plan. It seems to me that the only outstanding architectural originality the Thais have displayed is their very pretty temples. The Thais are excellent at prettification - but when it comes to originality/ depth of thought or innovative production - forget it! And I agree with the comments of other contributors here: the roads in Bangkok are a joke (they literally turn into rivers when there's a downpour), and the lack of concern for pedestrians is evidenced by all the broken paving stones along many BKK pavements - plus the perpetual menace of really brainless motor-cycle riders who drive along the pavements (no 'greng jai' here!). It's all very exasperating. I agree with the other posters on this thread: more money should be spent on improving BKK's infrastructure, and not on an utterly unnecessary and useless Bangkok Eye.

It should be "no scan, no fly" for the most part. These excuses sound like little children.

Most of the hype says that it reveals too much. Too much fat, too small breasts, that is the hangup with most people. Or maybe their underwear is dirty.

Glad the airport is doing something considering how much bad publicity they have had in the past.

Yes the elites find it fun humiliating the sheeple and lemmings who occupy this planet and couldnt care less about their personal freedoms and liberties. Its interesting how the underwear bomber coincided with an initial rejection of body scanners at the airports - now of course everyone is screaming for them in the name of 'safety'.

Problem - Reaction - Solution

Are people so blind they cant see whats happening?

'The Mask' is surely right: these increasing and utterly unnecessary invasions of our privacy and liberty (introduced on the basis of obviously fabricated and foolish incidents)have nothing whatsoever to do with safeguarding our liberty or safety - rather, they are relentless measures of habituation getting us used to being treated as slaves or crimal serfs (guilty until proven innocent) on a prison planet run by a few 'elite' psychopaths who crave more and more power and dominance over the ordinary decent folk (the vast majority) of our world. Sadly, as 'The Mask' indicates - most people fail to see the inhuman cynicism and machinations of those in power and with power. The good cannot believe how evil the evil really are - and what the endgame of total world-control truly will be like - a hel_l on earth, denuded of all empathy, sympathy and humanity. Let's hope enough people wake up and see what is hurtling towards us before it is too late!

More "income" is rolling in... and this "law" will be exploited merciless to the fullest extend

Foreigners are the main target... MHO

Maybe someone in the Government, that REALLY had a brain in his head should INVENT ROAD RULES FIRST for Thai Drivers,and educate them on WHAT a Pedestrian crossing is for and how MOST of the civilized world STOPS for Pedestrians , and not try to run them down, then get the DAMM MOTORCYCLES OFF THE FOOTPATHS, I think think the police could become millionaires if they did that.

Cold181 (and the others of like mind), I agree with you 3 million percent about the wretched motorcyclists on the pavements. It's a health hazard walking along the 'pavements' (if we can dignify the higgledy-piggledy, pot-holed, often non-existent footpaths in BKK with the name of 'pavements'). These motorcyclists make me constantly tense and on edge when I am walking along the sidewalks. They shoot past one's ankles most unexpectedly. They just pop up from everywhere and anywhere, at any time - and the police do nothing about them. I have developed a trick now which works quite well: when I am walking along a Bangkok pavement, I always carry an umbrella (furled up) or walking cane and extend it to the side of my body at a right-angle as I walk along, so that the ubiquitous motorcyclists are blocked from passing me on that side and are discouraged from shooting past. It works! I recommend this method. At least now I can walk along with one side of my body safeguarded from the fiendish motorcyclists. Maybe I should carry two umbrellas - just to protect both sides of my body! And you are all right about the laughable pedestrian crossings here: the drivers stop if they want to (which means never)!

You should have no problem picking up work and you may even get 60,000. This is not a requirement for the work permit though as there are different rules for teachers in regards to minimum income - I have a work permit on half that amount and so do most legal teachers. The job section on Ajahn is a good idea and sometimes you see jobs advertised here also.

Thank you, dear Mario and Garro, for your very kind assistance and advice. I am interested to learn that there is no requirement for a teacher to earn 60,000 Baht per month (in order to get the work permit). That's very useful to know. Thanks, too, for the info on Ajahn. I did not know about that. So now I can start my search for work with more optimism and confidence. Thanks again. All best wishes to you. From Tony.

Hello dear Friends,

I wonder if anyone can advise me? I have been in Thailand (Bangkok) for one month now (on a tourist visa) and have just come back from the Penang Run and secured another tourist visa for 30 days. I very much want to live and work permanently in Thailand, as I have a Thai boyfriend here (I am gay). Our relationship is two years old now. But where is best for me to apply for English-language editing / teaching work, with a view to securing the work permit?

I am English, 51 years old, an Oxford University Ph.D. in German Literature, published author (books on Buddhism), and have been a teacher (and copy editor) of English to foreign adults in London for the past 21 years.

So far I have written to about 30 law firms in Thailand, to see if they will take me as a proof reader - but no luck. I would really like to earn around 60,000 Baht per month, as I am told that this is necessary for me to secure the work permit (I don't know if this is true!).

Any ideas on how I can get a sufficiently well-paid job in the next month or two - as after that, my money runs out! Or maybe I should try to work in Malaysia (Penang? KL?) and see if my Thai boyfriend can come and live with me there??

Thank you very much for any help you can offer. Thank you so much!

Best wishes.

From

Tony