dhrobertson

Well, I stand corrected and disappointed

Maybe I'm just old (fashioned) but I do recall the BBC in better days when they DID try to achieve objectivity and give at least some air time to opposing views.

My information is not as parochial as you may think

I mix socially with all types here in Phuket and run a consultancy business (electrical engineering)

I also socialise in Bangkok (The British Club etc)

My wife's family are from Nakhon Phanon Province and we visit the wider family there frequently.

My son is married to woman from Buri Ram (who graduated from a top BKK university)

So, I think my sources are pretty eclectic

The Economist is also surprisingly weak on Thailand

I also think Aljazeera is pretty good.

All I'm asking for is some balance here.

Personally, I find JH way too shallow and simplistic. A bit too second rate university I imagine. A bit daily Mail if you like.

Sadly, that's the BBC these days. It may have been a bit too "Oxbridge" elitist in the past but frankly I preferred those Halcyon days.

Let's have some real analysis here

Well I'm going to throw my two pennyworth in here. I not only went to the same university as Jonathan Head, though not the same college, but also the same school. My own view about my fellow Old Alleynian is that he still has an axe to grind where Thailand in concerned and it has a tendency to show in some of his asides.

Then you will be interested to know that another Dulwich and Cambridge man told me a few years ago when I met him at an Ox and Cam dinner that Jonathan Head was one of the finest foreign journalists working in Thailand.He was fulsome in his praise and I am inclined to take his word rather than the criticism of various expatriates of unknown origin.My informant's name? Anand Panyarachun.

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Thank you for your post, jayboy and I appreciate entirely what you say.

I would also readily accept that I am in a minority when it comes to my opinion of JH as a journalist but having lived here for over a decade my current opinion is based solely on his output in his time here in Thailand.

Clearly as a D and C man he can't be all bad!

Regards

Doesn't say much for the other journalists!

(What's the name of that bloody woman with the crew cut again?)

Just seen Jonathan Head on BBC News

My god! What biased bullshit

Goes to Udon and is insinuating the Thais are crushed by Harsh Military Coup

Just WRONG, WRONG

I hope the army pull him in for damaging the country

Anyone else see the piece?

Worth a new thread.....

Are you saying that the people Head interviewed were lying?

Thank goodness that we still have access to uncensored media reports.

Lying or not is not always relevant. It is selective reporting. I am sure you can find a KKK member to tell you about the oppression of the whites in the USA and the evil control of the Jews and Blacks - would that make it true or news worthy? The Beeb should be ashamed of such biased unchecked reporting - they should have learned that lesson over events that cost the DG his job a few years back! If they put someone like Head on, they should counter with either commentary, questions or a report from the other stable.

What nonsense. The BBC have reported the 'other side' many times. For this one (short) report where Head travelled to Isaan to find out how the Reds were coping with the coup. All credit for them for doing so, as no one else is reporting it.

The question was "Are you saying that the people Head interviewed were lying?" - my response was a direct answer to that question. It matters not a jot if they air the other side or not, they should still not air overtly biased or selective reports as if they are fact and without commentary to the fact, or challenge. You are emotive because of your ideology - but if the opposite had been done, someone interviewing PDRC members at home about the last government, and thus a very biased report was aired against your position, without challenge, would that still be OK?

Me, I would argue against both - people believe what they are shown on the box - especially the news and even more so it being Auntie. A news channel is not the place for soapboxing or propaganda being disseminated as news; biased reports are fine AS LONG as they are challenged - then the people can chose whom to believe.

//Edit: Keyboard hates me

I have no ideology as far as Thai politics are concerned. I just think it's good journalism to seek out some Isaan folk to find out their views about the coup. No other news organisation seems to be doing this.

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Just going to Udon (direct flight from BKK) and digging out a few Thaksin fans doesn't really give a balanced view.

If he went to say to say Roi Et or Kalasin or Mukdahan and spoke to a cross section he might get a more balanced view.

In my opinion a majority in nthye NE are optimistic about the army taking control.........

BREAKING NEWS!!!

Jonathan Head just gave a fairly balanced report on BBC World!!

I'm in a state of shock.

I need a cup of tea and a biscuit please.........

This chap impresses me........

They're very Keyn......

I was once on a short TG flight to Ubon in business class and found out from the purser that I was the only one who had actually paid. The business class cabin was full.......

Personally, I find JH way too shallow and simplistic. A bit too second rate university I imagine. A bit daily Mail if you like.

Sadly, that's the BBC these days. It may have been a bit too "Oxbridge" elitist in the past but frankly I preferred those Halcyon days.

Let's have some real analysis here

Head graduated from Pembroke College, Cambridge and SOAS London. There are many at both Cambridge and Oxford who find his views close to their own. Did you experience your own halcyon days beside the Cam or the Cherwell? It may not be quite as you imagine, though admittedly it was almost back in Abhisit's days as a student when I left.

How depressing. I thought the communist days were over! Ha!

Dunelm

The dominant trend in MSM journalism the past 30 years is for a reporter / journalist to recognize the increasing sophistication of the English speaking audience, and the Western audience in general, by showing a bias but to make the bias well thought through, reasonable, clear and clean, consistent, rational, fair-minded.

You're gonna ask how bias can be fair-minded, and perhaps raise a few other issues. The BBC itself has a fair minded bias which it presents "cleanly," as does the MSM in general, Fox News does not have a fair minded or "clean" bias.

Time magazine has a fair minded and "clean" bias, the Nation in Thailand does not have one.

TVF makes some effort to try to have a fair minded bias in the news sources it selects or tries to select. Given that TVF could not get the cooperation it sought from the Bangkok Post many moons ago, it's pretty much stuck with the Nation as its primary Thailand originated MSM source.

TVF uses other sources but the Nation just outdoes them in sheer volume, detail, frequency and regularity, all of which are qualities a daily news forum about Thailand must have.

Many if not most consumers of news want to hear their viewpoint, not pretentious presentations of objectivity, and a good number want to hear the viewpoint of the other side rather than some middling journalist presuming to present the full situation of each side 50-50. The journalist's 50-50 presentation is anyway how the journalist might interpret it.

The days are past as well of journalists pretending to be "objective" or so-called neutral.

So called "objectivity" is passe' and neutrality never existed. Even the Associated Press, which for more than a hundred years was as "objective" a news organization as there ever was, most recently and consciously presents a clear if minimized bias. The same is basically true of Reuters of the UK and AFP (Agence France Presse).

Jonathan Head is but one instance of people watching a biased and clean professional journalist. Invariably, some don't like him or his presentations, a predictable fact the BBC expects and accepts. Most however approve of Mr Head, which is why he is steadily and securely employed by the BBC. Those who don't like him are a distinct and tiny minority of the BBC viewership. If most viewers didn't like Jonathan Head he'd be selling shoes instead or reporting from Khon Kean or other similar locales.

So I really enjoy reading all the constant, pointed and bitter winging around here about Jonathan Head

I suspect Thaksin enjoys it too.

Tell us, Publicus, Sir, are you a media studies graduate? Who taught you buzzz words like MSM?

From which moral high ground do you pontificate?

Oh, go on..... do tell........

Well, I stand corrected and disappointed

Maybe I'm just old (fashioned) but I do recall the BBC in better days when they DID try to achieve objectivity and give at least some air time to opposing views.

My information is not as parochial as you may think

I mix socially with all types here in Phuket and run a consultancy business (electrical engineering)

I also socialise in Bangkok (The British Club etc)

My wife's family are from Nakhon Phanon Province and we visit the wider family there frequently.

My son is married to woman from Buri Ram (who graduated from a top BKK university)

So, I think my sources are pretty eclectic

The Economist is also surprisingly weak on Thailand

I also think Aljazeera is pretty good.

All I'm asking for is some balance here.

Personally, I find JH way too shallow and simplistic. A bit too second rate university I imagine. A bit daily Mail if you like.

Sadly, that's the BBC these days. It may have been a bit too "Oxbridge" elitist in the past but frankly I preferred those Halcyon days.

Let's have some real analysis here

The BBC has a responsibility to report fairly and with balance

I think anyone relying soley upon the BBC to understand what is happening hear would be misled

Head should also report the view of many, many others (I believe a majority) who are optimistic about the coup and look upon the suspension of democracy to be unfortunate but probably necessary in the short term

There are MUCH more interesting points about the situation which could do with some fearless investigative reporting. You don't need me to tell you.

Putting out some codswallop about poor downtrodden subsistance farmers mourning the loss of THEIR democracy does not cut it.

Just seen Jonathan Head on BBC News

My god! What biased bullshit

Goes to Udon and is insinuating the Thais are crushed by Harsh Military Coup

Just WRONG, WRONG

I hope the army pull him in for damaging the country

Anyone else see the piece?

Worth a new thread.....

Do you mean the video clip in this one? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27735992

Yes, that's the one. Thank you! Should be viewed by all..........

I have complained to the BBC about the bias

(What about the outfit Taksin is wearing on the poster.....)

In my opinion, the BBC has a duty of care to present a balanced view to their viweres who do not have the benefit of seeing the actual situation on the ground.

Just seen Jonathan Head on BBC News

My god! What biased bullshit

Goes to Udon and is insinuating the Thais are crushed by Harsh Military Coup

Just WRONG, WRONG

I hope the army pull him in for damaging the country

Anyone else see the piece?

Worth a new thread.....

The BBC's Jonathan head is at it again

According tp the World Service. Bangkok sytreet are fully of soldiers confronting anti-coup demostrators!

I sthat true? I was on Sukhumvit, Silom, Satorn yesterday and saw nothing amiss?

Anybody confirm the veracity of the reporting?

You should allow the investigation to be completed before apportioning blame

Do you understand ground fault loop impedance? prospective fault current? No? I expect the owner didn't either

Facts are:-

1) Thai electricians are not formally trained or examined (coded)

2) Typically, they don't know their own code

3) There are no satutory inspections

Until the tourist industry starts demanding certification, I doubt we will see any change

Moderator,

As in the past following electrical accidents. dangerous advice from amateur electricians appears

Health warning would be a good move.........

Horrendous.

Safety first. And I hope the families sue the hell out of the condo management. It might create a small change in the understanding for liability in public places.

So sad to read news like this. We take for granted that electrical safety has been attended to, but obviously not.

Do buildings have "standards' for wiring, and if so, who checks? I know this sounds rather hopeful, but the only thing that might draw the attention of hotel and condo owners, as some has suggested, is to drag them into court.

The present wiring standards are about 100 years old. Two wires for everything, from arc welders to washing machines, household goods.

As I've said in the past, there isn't even a standard for plugs for household items, and I've seen at least five types in electrical shops.

Thai EIT code 2013 is the latest

sockets must be 3-pin

sparks here are not trained or coded

no compulsory certification

Thai EIT code 2013, first I've heard of it where can I get a copy?

Chula university bookshop Siam Square area

300 TBT Thai language but you can read the numbers I'm sure

At that price, provincial governors could give them out for free........

Moving gradually away from American NEC roots to IEC 60364 which is much more sensible given no minal voltage here is 380/220V

For most people, order up a copy of the 17th edition BS7671:2008 still the gold standard since 1882! (only 4000 TBT a copy)

Horrendous.

Safety first. And I hope the families sue the hell out of the condo management. It might create a small change in the understanding for liability in public places.

So sad to read news like this. We take for granted that electrical safety has been attended to, but obviously not.

Do buildings have "standards' for wiring, and if so, who checks? I know this sounds rather hopeful, but the only thing that might draw the attention of hotel and condo owners, as some has suggested, is to drag them into court.

The present wiring standards are about 100 years old. Two wires for everything, from arc welders to washing machines, household goods.

As I've said in the past, there isn't even a standard for plugs for household items, and I've seen at least five types in electrical shops.

Thai EIT code 2013 is the latest

sockets must be 3-pin

sparks here are not trained or coded

no compulsory certification

Sad story, but there's seomthing odd about it. "Hosseini tried to pull him from the lamp pole but the two were electrocuted."

If this was AC power, don't you get thrown away from the thing you touch? With DC power you get stuck to the item you touched, as does anyone who touches you. Doesn't this imply the pool lamp was DC?

Why would the pool lighting be DC?

Most all DC lighting is 24 Volts, one would have to be hyper sensitive to feel it! AND YES, pool lighting is normally 24 VDC in any sort of reasonably well engineered situation whether it be sub surface, decorative or surround..

Wiring codes require all electrical equipment within safety zones surrounding pools or water features to be extra low voltage (less than 50V ac or 20V dc) from a safety isolation transformer and no ground.

There is no human reflex response to electric shock. You have to think about disconnecting.

An insensitive post removed.

Until some form of liability legislation is brought in and enforced, this type of 'accident' will continue.

Two more young lives lost, nothing will happen

Thai code does not permit 220V luminaires anyware close to a pool or water feature (I'll spare you the details)

Sadly the regs are not enforced and statutory inspections are not a requirement.

I suspect that it will not be long before internet booking companies will drive change before the law changes.

I'm sure I read on in another thread that the curfew did not apply in all provinces.

Can anyone clarify?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/05/military-coup-thailand

worth a read

Yes worth a read, if you are into filling your head with red flavored rubbish.

At least I know now where the TV trolls are finding their drivel.

If you think I am a red shirt supporter you think wrong and clearly have not read my earlier posts.

The point is that just about ALL western press are misinformed and I think the journos are much to blame

Overall, the situation is complex and will require cool heads to resolve.

Flying off the handle like that doesn't help the debate. Try to stay calm and carry on!

For your info, I supported the protests and am optimistic about the coup.

I also thought Korn and Abhisit made a decent go of it.

My wife's family are subsistance farmers in the NE and are anti-Taksin.

We run an engineering consultancy in Phuket

However, my head is frequently full of a decent red......

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/05/military-coup-thailand

worth a read

Although I am optimistic about the coup, Neversure makes a very good point.

Facism it may be but even the defintion of facism is unclear.......

But, maybe out of niavety, I hope this is a short cut to democracy with good governance.

Maybe it would have been better to let people leran from their mistakes....

As I said before, it's complex. And we can do without facile commentary from the BBC's people who should know better by now.

Anyone seen The Economist's take on this?