phomthai

OK just re-read form FLR(M) and good news...

OK I'm confused....my head is spinning just as I thought I'd got my head around it all...and now the UKBA website has changed so the links I had now load different pages...aaarrrgggghhhh!!!!

Mrs Phomthai has sadly not passed her LIUK yet so we're having to apply for FLR rather than ILR.

Problem is I'm confused as to what "pre-9 July 2012 rules" really means....

I get that Mrs P has to pass LIUK and B1 English for ILR.

But do we have to submit all the info required for the "£18,600 financial requirement"?

I'm a director of a "specified limited company" and the information requirements are a lot more than what we submitted for the spouse visa back in October 2011. I'm currently "between roles" so also concerned that we'll not meet the "There must be evidence of...ongoing employment at the date of application"....

So what does the "pre-9 July 2012 rules" mean in simple terms?

I have received a reply, and it is good news.

Following the second query, is the reply my MP received from London and South East MP correspondence:

Thank you for your email correspondence of 30 December regarding the English language requirements for leave to remain and settlement applications.

I am sorry about the conflicting and incorrect information you have received regarding the expiry of English language tests. Our email of 16 December was incorrect. I can confirm that an expired A1 English language certificate can be provided for further leave to remain (LTR) in the UK as a spouse but not for LTR under the points based system.

An expired A1 or B1 certificate can also be provided for settlement and naturalisation applications. All certificates must be originals and issued by a valid provider as given on our list of providers which is subject to change.

(my emphasis)

Don't like that last bit about the list of approved providers being subject to change, so check the list prior to applying to make sure that your provider is still on it.

If they're not, then it looks as though the test will have to be taken again with a different provider.

Good work 7by7, many thanks. My wife has the Bulats A1 so would be grateful if you could PM a copy of your MP's reply so that we may include it in with the FLR application.

Unfortunately my wife's shyness has caused her problems in learning English so not yet at B1 level so we find ourselves having to apply for FLR.

I've started checking the forms and info we need and isn't it great to see that UKBA's attention to detail remains as good as ever on the forms & guidance notes themselves....

Congrats UKBA, as if we don't have enough to worry about in trying to keep up to date with your rule & form changes....

Just had a go using your link, tried a couple of different browsers...finally managed to get through, on Chrome, to the next page where you enter passport details etc

Guessing it's just being temperamental..can only suggest you keep trying

I keep a couple of post-it index tabs in the passport, use 1 to mark the page and handover to immigration person open at that page. The clever ones are smart enough to know that you're trying to help them. The stupid ones? Well there's no helping them...555!

We demonstrated a whole history of emails & Skype calls between us with a selection of simple screen shots from the pc using Word...really not that difficult and did it all using just my email, Skype & Facebook a/cs, no need to duplicate using your GF’s a/cs

Email

1. create a new folder in your yahoo/hotmail/gmail email account
2. name it with your GF’s name
3. transfer all of your emails sent to & received from your GF
4. Open a new Word document
5. “screen print” (Up arrow and “PrtScr” keys) into the new email folder
6. Paste (Ctrl V) into the Word document
7. Print off hard copies

Skype

1. Log in to Skype on your pc
2. You should be able to bring up history of calls to a specific Skype contact, in this case your GF
3. You can then “screen print” into Word same as your email screen prints

Facebook

1. Similar process to above screen shots
2. Don’t forget to show your Facebook relationship status with you GF

10-20 pages of screen shots should do the job....just make sure they cover a selection of the period that you’ve been together.

Good luck

I found sample tests difficult to find. I think you can download them online but I found it difficult to know exactly what test they were talking about. It's really shambolic how this whole system has been operated. The one good thing about CPA was that they do quite a good leaflet containing a sample test and if you go to their offices in Soi Asok off Sukhumvit in BKK you can pick one up for free. However I would not recommend using them because of so many other bad points about their service. The BULATS test is not the same as CPA so the leaflet only gives you an idea.

Kevin at BULATS will run your wife through their test if she would like. Also they do 4 days intensive training before the test which really helps. If you do the test and training with BULATS it costs B14,950 in total.

Not sure if I'm allowed to post a link, Vantage Siam (BULATS) have some demo tests...here goes...

http://vantage-siam....id=19&PageShow=

Mrs P sat their demo ones, boosted her confidence a bit so she had an idea of what to expect and she sat the test & passed 1st time without the need to do the training course. Cost was around 7,000 baht I think and results were back in about a week; they can be posted to your wife if you want to save a trip back to BKK.

I remember speaking with Kevin back in October 2011 and he was frustrated that they're not given the A1 test that can be sat in UK, that one apparently is just listening & speaking. Thai ones at the time involved all elements...frustrating & I suspect things haven't improved much. But remember your wife only needs to pass the listening & speaking elements, which is pretty straightforward, and just encourage her to practice at every opportunity..she'll need to anyway for when she's in the UK.

We went to the Asok lot, soi 21 I think....Mrs P was not impressed, they didn't do much to ease her concerns. Kevin @ BULATS was so much better!

I agree with durhamboy it really is shambolic how the system is operated, UKBA don't help the situation and as has been asked elsewhere why doesn't the British Embassy in Bangkok have the list of approved Thai A1 test providers on their website? They list the only place to get the TB test (didn't used to) but not the A1 test....maybe in time but at the moment those are the rules and we have to follow them....memo to self get off the soapbox...555!

Good luck to your wife, she'll be fine

The test is valid for 2 years. Whilst she only needs to pass speaking and listening she wouls also have to take reading and writing as there is NO Tailor Made test for the UK Settelement Visa. I would recommend the BULATS test run by a company called Vantage in Bangkok - MD is an American Kevin Cullen (?) who is very hands on. There are 3 test centres in Bangkok (CPA and Pearsons being the other two) and only one other outside Bangkok (in Chiang Mai)

I started a thread on this topic about 6 months ago and there is a lot of info there about the tests if you can find it. Actually passing it is not quite as easy as people say - for example whilst you dont need to pass reading you have to read some of the questions to pass speaking and listening!!!!!

I'm not sure if the UK Settlement visa test is changing in Summer to include reading and writing. I thought that might be for ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain) but I may be wrong.

I would also recommend BULATS, Kevin's a really nice guy and put Mrs P at ease when we went for a chat, definitely the best of the ones we saw in Bangkok.

They should make it a lot harder.

The country is flooded with immigrants true brits are becoming a minority.

So who do you think "true brits”are...those who arrived with William back in 1066? Or back to good old Anglo Saxon times? Or maybe those who fought the Romans? Or let’s go back further to the Stone Age maybe?

End of the day all “true brits” are immigrants...

Manic week....

Having re-read my post I can see how some may have misinterpreted my “rant” and what I was trying to say, apologies...guess that’s what happens when you write in the heat of the moment..

My point about the ESOL with citizenship should have read that from an ILR application point of view it would have been a waste for Mrs P...I agree that any English course in itself is not a waste of time & effort and we all actively encourage Mrs P to practice her English at every opportunity.

Mrs P enrolled on an ESOL course, run by the local council, in Jan-12 and yes she does struggle at times but that’s true, I would think, for anyone learning a new language. Different people learn different skill sets at different speeds, all part of being human. On the whole her English is very good; she’s just shy and at times lacks confidence in her own abilities.

We took the conscious decision when she arrived that we were not going to rush things, we had 2 years & (thought) we knew exactly what she needed to do for ILR and certainly did not want to fall in to the common trap of leaving it all to the last minute. Surely they wouldn’t retrospectively change the rules? How naive of us...

Mrs P studied hard to ensure that she fully understood all of the LIUK material, not just rely on the practice questions. She then sat the test when we felt she was ready for it. She only just failed and we’ve taken positives from that. I remain amazed at her LIUK knowledge and suspect it’s her nerves that got the better of her.

She has a fantastic support network, both Thai & Farang, and I am confident that she’ll pass next time but I’m not the one who has to sit the test, she is and frankly she could do without the added pressure of less than 8 weeks left of the old test that she’s been studying. The other evening she said “Maybe better I go back to Thailand!”...NO, NO & NO!

Throughout all of this we’ve got on with our normal everyday life just like any other newly married couple. She got a part time job, started learning to drive, planning a family and has successfully adapted to life in an alien country after 34 years living solely in Thailand. I’m incredibly proud of what she’s achieved in just 13 months....amazing really when you look back!

Last summer the new LIUK book was expected in the autumn but it didn’t arrive until the end of Jan-13...so that’s 3-4 months late. And in that time how many decided to start studying the old text so as to get started as, after all. who knew when the new text would finally be introduced?

And I naively thought they’d have at least a 3 month transition period...time enough for those already studying the old text to sit & pass whilst those who had not started would simply start with the new text.

Could be argued that UKBA are effectively implying that immigrants can start their study and pass the new test all in less than 8 weeks....really? And why the rush? I suspect there'll be a drop off in the numbers taking the test in from 25 March through to May compared with previous run rates.

As for the link why not put a direct link on the announcement to the new book? How hard would that be, the announcement is really about the new book not the test itself so surely a direct link to said book would have been just as useful rather than leaving Joe Public to hunt around on the link they gave?

For those who use the UKBA website almost on a daily basis, some as part of their job, they no doubt bookmark the common pages they need/use and are used to its quirks, terminology, confusing headings etc. But most of us probably use the website only occasionally and it can be a struggle to find the right information. That’s certainly true of all of those we’ve spoken to.

We had a broken link in Mrs P’s spouse visa application and have come across others since.

Even trying to book the test is a bit confusing...

So you’re in “Booking the test” and who would have thought that you have to click on “Register for a Life in the UK account” to actually book a test when you’ve already got a registered account...?? So you then naturally try clicking on the “Book a Test” link on the left hand side which takes you to the page you’re already on...<deleted>? So scroll down looking for the link to book a test and hey presto there’s a “...book your test... “ lurking in the narrative....but actually all you needed to do was click on the “Register for a Life in the UK account” link even though you’re already a registered user...nice!

If you use it every day you’re gonna know that but most of us probably don’t....

BTW on Monday I spoke with the ESOL course administrator @ Mrs P’s college and, somewhat surprisingly, she didn’t know about the rule changes, despite saying that they are in regular contact with the Home Office and UKBA...Just goes to show....

My real annoyance is that the rules have been changed retrospectively but hey that’s life so we have to accept it.

And that’s why, having learnt the hard way, I strongly recommend that individuals themselves keep FULLY up to date with the (retrospectively changing) ILR requirements and I pity those on the 5 year route...what fun & games they’ll have!

First many thanks to Jay Sata for bringing this to our attention, pure fluke that we happened to be on Thaivisa last night researching new rules for Mrs Phomthai and her friends when we saw the thread.

Latest from UKBA...

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/2013/january/37-new-handbook

“....A new Life in the UK test will be introduced on 25 March 2013, 8 weeks after publication of the new handbook, to allow candidates time to prepare....”

How kind....

Mrs Phomthai's now worried that our wonderful UKBA have effectively given her just 8 weeks to pass the existing test that she’s been studying the past year for! Sadly she’s failed it a few times already, once by only 2 marks....

She’s had to read & study 3 books totalling 400 pages all written in an alien language in a script that’s totally different to her native script....and if she fails she’s going to have to start all over again with new study material whilst at the same time studying for a B1 test that Theresa May & Co decided to retrospectively introduce for those already in the country....she’s already stressed out enough as it is and this just scares the proverbial doodah out of her!

We took our eye of the ball thinking, naively, that the rules wouldn’t be retrospectively changed. Mrs Phomthai came to England in Dec-11 and we thought she’d just need either LIUK or ESOL with Citizenship...just as well we didn’t go down the ESOL with Citizenship route L...what a waste of time, effort & money that would have been! Thanks May...

A comment in passing by one of her friends got us checking the rules...OMG...

I'd love it if Theresa May & her cronies could do what Mrs Phomthai (who left school at 14 with no formal qualifications) and many other (non-EU) lesser educated immigrants have done, ie move halfway round the world to be with the spouse they fell in love with whilst greatly missing their friends and families, adapting to a colder climate where everything’s in a strange tongue and written in a funny looking script whilst, at the same time, looking for a job, integrating in to a strange society, study 400 pages of funny looking script and then sit a test of 24 questions based on a bank of 1000 questions of which they’ve only released about 400 and aim to pass 18 out of said 24 questions....somehow I think Theresa may struggle....

Mrs Phomthai amazes me with her current knowledge of the LIUK material and I’m incredibly proud of what she’s achieved so far.

Sorry Mrs May but I didn’t realise that you don’t like the idea that I fell in love with a non-white lower class Jonny foreigner from a non-EU country.....oops silly me!

My prediction? A lot of people are going to be caught out by this when they start the ILR process later this year. Just goes to show that you have to keep FULLY up to date on developments. UKBA don’t help by having a useless website with broken links etc. Got to feel sorry for anyone under the new 5 year rule....trying to keep up to date over 2 years is bad enough

Finally nice of UKBA to NOT include a link to the new book in their “News & Updates” but I guess that would be too helpful...afterall their website is an absolute mare to navigate even for those of us who like to think we’ve a small degree of intelligence...so thank you Google!

http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/bookstore.asp?FO=1240167&trackid=002417

Don’t get me wrong I’m all for ensuring that people integrate into society but find it incredibly disheartening for Theresa May and her UKBA cronies to retrospectively move the goalposts for those already here who thought that they'd already complied with the rules...

I feel a letter to Mrs May coming on...

Just booked Mrs Phomthai's test, spent ages trying to find out when the new test starts so hopefully this will help others...

Please note that for tests due to be taken on or after 25 March 2013, the questions will be based on the new Life in the UK Handbook (Third Edition). Tests to be taken before 25 March 2013 will be based on the Life in the UK Handbook (Second Edition).

Another success...Mrs Phomthai had the email yesterday and has collected her shiny new visa...YES YES YES!

10 working days, fantastic!

Thanks to everyone on this site for all the suggestions, help & advice. Thaivisa.com rocks!

For Mrs Phomthai's visit visas we had a letter from her boss granting her an extended holiday and that she went with her blessing and the job would still be there upon her return. Letter was in Thai with a professionally translated copy.

We also stated that we would abide by any conditions the embassy thought necessary to impose and that we would not do anything to jeopardise any future visa applications.

No land, property or kids were available for us to use as a "reason to return"

As with most things for visa applications just stick to the facts

For a 2-3 months UK visit your wife will need a UK visit visa. See the pinned topic below:

http://www.thaivisa....it-visa-basics/

For Germany and Spain she'll need a Schengen visa...

Since you're a Brit, get the UK visit visa first from the British Embassy, though you actually go via their agent VFS in Bangkok.

Unfortunately for reasons best known to the British Embassy you won't know the result of the visa application until your wife gets her passport back...which makes it slightly harder to plan the next stage, ie Schengen visa application submission, especially when you're not based in BKK

You do get a sms advising that your passport is ready for collection but that's about all...whinge whinge but how difficult would it really be for them to add a Yes or No to that sms!...and yes I appreciate that the sms comes from VFS but it really ain't rocket science and would actually significantly improve the quality of the service that they provide and would allow people some planning time even if only another day or so...

Anyway, then I would suggest getting the Schengen visa via the German embassy, again in BKK. If recent postings on thaivisa are anything to go by the Spanish are a pain n the proverbial and believe in making life very difficult. I suspect the German route may be easier and more efficient though I don't have any personal experience with them.

UK visa takes about 1 week. Don't know about German embassy but Mrs Phomthai had her Schengen visa from the French embassy in a week.

Use the exact same supporting documents, including invitation letters from UK, Germany and Spain, for both visas and mention both visas in your letter of support.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

For a country that relies heavily on tourism the Spanish don't seem to want tourists....

I've heard so many negative stories about Spanish embassies not wanting to issue or just being complete s#!+s re Schengen visas that I don't think we will be rushing to go there when Mrs Phomthai gets her UK setlement visa even though we have friends there!

France was so much easier...

Is it business as normal tomorrow Nov 11 after Loi Kratong ??

Looks to be...VFS Regent House are taking appointments, last available slot is 13:50 for tomorrow

Sorry to hear of your loss

Putting on my practical hat here...

You might want a letter/email from the funeral directors confirming your mother passing away. I'm not trying to be insensitive here but it would back up the reason to fast-track your girlfriend's application especially as there will not be a death certificate issued just yet due to unknown cause of death.

Also tomorrow is Friday and you'll want to get the application in asap which obviously means being in Bangkok, sorry but you didn't say where you are. Any chance your girlfriend can talk to her boss tonight about leave of abscence and letter so you could be in BKK tomorrow? That's assuming you've got everything else sorted, online application completed etc VFS close at 4:30pm on Friday and open again at 08:30 Monday

Some useful links to help speed things up for you:

Online application

http://www.visa4uk.f...k/ApplyNow.aspx

Book an appointment

https://www.vfs.firm...appwelcome.aspx

Once again sorry for your loss and good luck.

Just had a quick look and last available slot @ VFS tomorrow is 13:50 and Monday is 14:20

Thanks phomthai, I have cancelled the KET exam, they were going to give her results in February!

Did your wife need much preparation time? My wife has resonably good english but the demo test looks quite difficult.

Regards

We spent a couple of hours going through the demos & tips (which is in Thai) first together then Mrs Phomthai had a go on her own. Like most things in life the more you practice the easier it becomes.

Don't panic, I'm sure your wife will be fine. Just keep reassuring her that she only needs A1 level, which is pretty basic, and that she does NOT need to get it all 100% right!

Silence however is not golden in the speaking part, if she doesn't understand or isn't sure then she's better off to clearly say something like "I'm sorry but I don't understand your question" which incidently is the correct answer cos she didn't understand...but silence will score a big fat ZERO!

As for the chart description example just get your wife to describe what she sees in front of her...there really is no right or wrong answer...again, silence scores zero. Hint just look at it yourself and talk to your wife about what you see for 1 minute and then you'll both realise it's not really that difficult...ignore the fact that it's business related...it's really just a picture to describe!

Good luck

This Is Thailand....

Thanks phomthai,

I have emailed Kevin already, I am awaiting his reply.

How much did you pay? How soon did you get your wife a test?

Regards

Cost was 7,000 baht. Phoned on the Tuesday and Mrs Phomthai sat the test on the Thursday and got results the following Wednesday.

If I remember right they do the tests on Thursdays & Fridays

When did you put the settlement visa application in at the VFS office phomthai?

Last Tuesday so early days at the moment. When did your wife put hers in?

Thanks for the replies

Thinks we'll keep a file over the next 2 years with all the letters addressed to Mrs Phomthai...not looking forward to the cost of the ILR...welcome to rip off Britain!

The wife's been over twice before and just loves snow...have tried telling her that the novelty will wear off in a few years!

As for the heating well I gave up trying to get her to put another layer on rather than turning the heating up...guess my big mistake was showing her how the thermostat worked! As for clothes well she's got more here than I have...so that's saved the credit card from a bit of a pounding!

No rugrats so schools not an issue...

Already know the local Thai restuarants and shops so that's sorted

Dootv...mmm jurys' out on that one as I'll never get her away from the box but on the other hand I must confess to missing Thai soaps...decisions decisions....

Rice cooker...have the Breville one, as chosen by the wife and she's more than happy with it

Mobile phone - toddmeister you might want to check out hotukdeals.com, get one which can have Skype, even better if it's got a front facing camera for video Skype, and get Skype's "Unlimited country"...bargain @ £9/mth and meant the missus was able to call her friends and family in Thai even when we were out and about

Good call on the citizenship test...forgot about that so will look for local course

Just hope she gets the settlement visa now....fingers crossed!

If you're using BULATS then their certificates are ready for collection in about 3-4 working days but the Cambridge University ESOL certificate takes about 3 weeks to come through.

Some useful hints for the BULATS test:

• The test covers all 4 elements: Listening, Speaking, Reading and Writing
• It's business based but no need to panic, remember she only needs the SPEAKING and LISTENING A1 level for her settlement visa though she will need to be able to read a bit to answer some of the questions
• Get your wife to try their online demo tests just so it doesn't come as too much of a shock
• The speaking element is 15 minutes and If she doesn't understand the question get her to say "Sorry but I don't understand the question"...better than saying nothing!
• The whole test is set to take about 3 hours but Mrs Phomthai was out in about 2hrs

FYI I've no links with BULATS other than Mrs Phomthai sat her test there. Kevin who runs it is a really nice guy who put Mrs Phomthai at ease and she got the required A1 level...I recommend them!

Sorry no experience of Pearsons or TOEIC

Good luck

In anticipation of Mrs Phomthai getting her settlement visa, I'm trying to draw up a hitlist of things to do once she arrives in the UK.

Initial thoughts are:

• Register her with my doctor & dentist
• Register for council tax
• Apply for NI number
• Apply for provisional driving licence
• Transfer the odd utlity bill into her name

Any other suggestions, tips, advice etc greatly appreciated, and indeed if there's anything we should or could do now or even future planning for ILR would be great....

Many thanks