NightOwl888

"living with consequences" - obviously can mean criticising them or changing them and of course publicising them.

S.E. Asia is a developing area and it's governmental institutions are at best unstable and rudimentary.

It is only right that if someone falls foul of a stupid, unjust or uncivilised law the law is criticised, no matter where that law is or how it is enforced.

When it comes to drugs - the problem is a social and psychological one so trying to involve the police or military in it is about as wise as hiring Bradley & Hindley as babysitters.

Umm....I forgot, could you remind me which law was changed because someone critisized it on the Internet?

It'd be interesting to hear an update from bangkokhappy on what went down.

I don't think they have Internet access in jail, do they?

Yes, good post NightOwl; good work following up your leads and thanks for posting the update. I'd say you have a career in investigative journalism waiting. Your dedication to the task in questioning the masseuse about the legal status of foreigners working in Thailand is exemplary

I appreciate that there are posts in support of Siam Legal, but considering what you have exposed about them so far, I would still recommend Sunbelt if you decide to go that route.

Well, I guess you have to be an investigative journalist to work in corporate IT. If you don't get to the bottom of the situation and figure out who to blame, the blame always lands on you.

For whatever reason, the masseuse wanted me to explain the whole visa situation and she jumped on the phone to call some other people to ask their advice. The session ended with her handing me a flyer for a tour of Bangkok and Pattaya with round trip flight and hotel included. Every Thai is a travel agent.

To be fair, there was an empty space in the front of Ste 6A that may have been Siam Legal's location at one point. It is just that last week I had confirmed that the address was correct with one of their employees and this week it is not there. It wouldn't surprise me if the address in London doesn't pan out either.

They said they are having their senior lawyer check into this and they will be getting back to me.

I hope they do, but all too often this kind of thing is said to get you off the phone or out of the office. They are expecting you to forget you ever asked the question, as surely as they forgot about it when you hung up. Happy to be proved wrong though, as I am sure many of us following this thread would like to know what they can come up with.

Not so sure about that one - this is the second email I have recieved from them and they have obviously been tracking my whole support incident pretty well. After I called them and I chatted with them the second time, they were able to link my phone call to LA and chat session together in a follow up email (which immediately made me suspect the "LA" office was in Thailand).

Sunbelt Asia hasn't been as good at following up as Siam Legal. When I was first told I would be contacted by their legal advisor, I didn't get a response for 4 days and had to send them an email to get a response. Their reply looked pretty stock - they just told me how I could begin the visa process, with no help on the work permit. They only said something like the email was caught in their spam filter, which was why they didn't reply sooner. I have never heard of outgoing email getting caught in a spam filter.

Neither of them have given me much information about the work permit process or how it will be handled. I suspect they get you to commit to the trip to Thailand first, and then lay on the bad news about setting up a business with 2 million baht (or working illegally) after you arrive. Sunbelt Asia isn't telling me I don't need one, but they aren't telling me any more than it requires a Non-Immigrant visa.

I am almost convinced that I will only be bringing my laptop with me to play solitare since I won't be able to work while in Thailand . But then, according to the Thai definition of "work" I could be busted for playing solitare without a work permit if I think about which card to play too hard. Amazing Thailand.

...but I could probably visit my consulate in person and obtain the "official" recommendation of my local consulate in writing

I would be amazed if you could get this - keep us updated.

I went down to the Thai consulate today to ask for the official opinion in writing. Paying attention to Thai sensibilities, I wore long pants even though today it was rather hot here in Los Angeles.

I politely explained my situation to the friendly lady at the information booth, however her tune had changed from the one I talked to on the phone on Friday. When I told her what I wanted to do, she still recommended I apply for a 60 day tourist visa. I then asked "Is it legal to do this?" and her reply was "No, it is not legal but many people work on a tourist visa in Thailand because it is a loophole in the law." Based on this new information, I decided not to ask her about putting her recommendation in writing because it had no weight if what she told me to do was in fact illegal by her own admission.

The funny thing is even though I told her I wanted to go to Thailand to do something that wasn't legal, she didn't let me leave without handing me a visa application. As if to say, "Your tea money is welcome here."

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Since the Los Angeles address listed on Siam Legal's website is only a few blocks away from the Thai consulate, I decided to also pay them a visit in person. I chatted with them last week and asked them whether the address on their website was correct because I couldn't find information about them on the California state bar website, and they had confirmed it was correct as posted. I tried calling the LA office several times during normal LA business hours, at first I couldn't get through, and eventually I got a call back (based on caller ID I presume). I even tried calling the fax number and it was disconnected. When I talked to the gentlemen from Siam Legal on the phone, he had a very strong accent like he had just arrived here in the US from Thailand.

I confirmed my suspicion based on the above information today:

Siam Legal doesn't actually have an office in Los Angeles, and their L.A. phone numbers are most likely being forwarded to Thailand.

I asked at Ste 6A (the address that is posted on the website) if this were Siam Legal, got a resounding no, and strangely was redirected to the Thai massage parlor next door at Ste 6B. The lady there was very nice, but was not associated with Siam Legal and said I was the 3rd person that showed up looking for them. Although I am sure she is not qualified to dispense legal advice, she recommended that I not worry about whether what I am doing is legal because my chances of getting caught are very slim. While the fact that Siam Legal doesn't have an office at a location that is listed on their website certainly does make them look a little shady, I am not that concerned with whether they actually have (or had) an office in LA provided they give good service otherwise, and at least one poster has recommended their services on this thread.

On a more positive note, Siam Legal did reply to my email in which I asked them to show me the paragraph in Thai law (whether it is in English or not) that states that if I am living in Thailand and working for a company in a foreign country that I won't need a work permit (which is precisely what they have told me). They said they are having their senior lawyer check into this and they will be getting back to me.

While it would be great if they were able to follow through on this promise, my suspicion is that the way the law is written it is much too vague to make such a conclusion, as has been pointed out about many Thai laws here on TV. I will give them a couple of days to see just how this turns out.

FYI - Here are the forms for Work Permit application, downloaded from the Thai Ministry of Employment. The first pages are in Thai, but the rest is in English.

WP2 if you are in Thailand with a non immigrant visa and WP3 if you are outside Thailand/an employer applies on your behalf.

Thanks for these documents - they were helpful to me and I am sure they will be helpful to others in my situation.

My only question is, where is WP1 and is there a WP4, etc? There are "special categories" for visas, it would not surprise me if there are "special categories" for the work permits.

I sounds like you are thinking WAY too hard about this.

The "work" you describe doesn't sound like anyone will figure out that you are "working"

I know of many farang employees that work for large hospitals without work permits because the hospital doesn't want to bother with the money and time of getting them a work permit. I would guess that this is pretty pervasive in LOS.

As for using a service like Siam Legal. You will hear a variety of things about what they do and how they do it. Know this: Me and the Mrs. wanted to stay long term in LOS this year, nothing to do with work or setting up a business.

Contacted Siam Legal, got instructions, sent cash, received paperwork from them and submitted to consul that they specified (located in the US), and 2 weeks later we had our Multiple Entry Non-B visas. We have been here a while, both with Multiple Entry Non-B visas. We have to do a border crossing every 90 days, but that's it. Having been through Thai immigration 4 times so far with our Non-B visas, I can say that it was the right choice. We have had NO PROBLEMS.

Just one thing: after you get your Non-B make sure when you enter Passport Control that immigration knows you have a Non-B visa, and check you stamps before you leave the station. I always do this, and thank goodness I do. Last entry back the immigration officer gave me a 30 day stamp, I saw this and brought it to her attention that I hold a Non-B and she corrected the stamp.

It sounds like you got the Non-B visa before leaving your country, is this correct? I would like to do this too. However, it seems that if I tell immigration I am in Thailand to do business and then I don't apply for a work permit when I get there, this would put me into a very suspicious category.

On the other hand, I could do this and then hire another attorney to help me with the work permit once I am there, which is another option I am considering. I certainly would be better off with this visa if the company I am working for went belly up and I needed to find employment within Thailand. My only fear is that this will be more expensive than what I can afford and then I am stuck in Thailand with no way to legally work.

Sure, there is a very little chance anyone will even care about the work I am doing, but your comment is like saying it is OK to speed because everybody else is. I got a response on another thread I started from a poor fellow who was actually busted for working "under the radar" and had to pay a 100,000 baht bribe. Check out the post by "singto" here.

Thanks for the tip on the immigration stamp. Also, I wasn't thinking there would be an issue with Siam Legal. However, it seems that their help stops at the point of getting the visa and with entry and then I am on my own for the work permit.

It looks like you have made your decision...

Really? To me it looks like a guy who is trying to get information so that he can make a decition and is getting conflicting information form each different source. To my mind getting told you need one document to recieve another and then going to get the first doc and being told "cannot" is a major frustration. If you can afford not to work for a week or two it would probably be easiest to just get here on a tourist visa then once here you will be able to talk to either of the above named agencies or another and work with them to get whatever documentation you and your agent deems you need. That is the route I went and it may end up being more work in the long run but it sure saves on the confustion of trying to ochastrate and everthying in order before you arrive approach.

Hmm...right, but from what I understand the one year visa cannot be obtained unless you go back to your home country, only a 90 day Non-Immigrant B visa. If I could do it all in one shot it would certainly be easier. Technically, I wouldn't have to orchistrate getting the work permit from here, only the visa.

That said, I found the "official" website for the Department of Employment in Thailand and here is what the official word is on getting a work permit while not in Thailand:

2. Aliens who are not in the Kingdom of Thailand but wish to work in the Kingdom must comply with the following:

- Contact a Royal Thai Embassy or Consulate in your country for advice and recommendation for granting a non-immigrant VISA.

So it would seem that I have followed these instructions to the letter. The interpretation of my situation by my local consulate is that I will be "a tourist on vacation" and will need a tourist visa to do this type of activity (excluding me from qualifying for a work permit).

The only thing is I don't have that in writing, but I could probably visit my consulate in person and obtain the "official" recommendation of my local consulate in writing. Once I have both of these documents in hand, at least I can prove that I followed the "official" instructions to get the proper legal recommendation, and while I don't know about in Thailand, that would be enough to stand up in court in most countries.

If I decide to go the "better safe than sorry" approach instead, I found this (not so official) procedure on how to apply for a work permit. If you read the "Documents needed for a work permit application" section, there is nothing there stating that you have to have a business first before you can apply for a work permit. The only conditions are that you must provide a descrpition of the duties you will perform, a medical certification, a Non-Immigrant visa, 3 passport photos, and the fee. It would seem that Sunbelt Asia isn't leading me astray as far as applying for a work permit without the need to setup a business, the only minor obstacle is filling out the form in Thai, which is something I would need a trustworthy lawyer for.

Did I just say "lawyer" and "trustworthy" in the same sentence?

Consulates have been known to give extremely inaccurate information themselves as well. For example it is quite legal to be without your passport in Malaysia (while you wait for your new visa). Also at the moment, in this region, only Vientiane in Laos will issue double entry tourist visas. You can also extend a tourist visa at any immigration dept, you don't have to go to Bangkok.

Labour may well take a different view to the LA Consulate and would probably not give a lot of weight to a reported telephone conversation. Don't risk working here without a work permit, unless you are 100% certain that you are not on the 'radar' (i.e. nobody knows what you are doing)

First of all, the woman on the phone did not volunteer that information I only confirmed it. I used Bangkok and Malaysia as hypothetical examples and she said yes that is possible. I didn't get the information about it being illegal to be without a passport in Malaysia from her either (I read it somewhere else on this forum). I wouldn't expect her to know that Vientiane is the only place where I can get this type of visa.

Seconly, her view is that I am "on vacation" and don't have a valid business purpose in Thailand. This is hard for me to disagree with. This situation is not much different than a holiday tourist taking his laptop with him so he can join meetings and create the occasional report between lying on the beach and Wat sightings. Certainly you wouldn't expect someone in this situation to get a work permit, would you? The only difference between our hypothetical traveler and me is the length of time I will be staying and the type of dwelling I will be staying in.

As far as staying "under the radar", I am not sure that is such a big concern. After all, if I am "on vacation" what business does anyone have with the type of work I am doing for an overseas company? I won't be working for, with, or against any Thai interests so it is unlikely anyone will have a complaint of my presence in Thailand. As long as I am not hiring employees or trying to source suppliers of the product my company sells, I am only a tourist doing his work while on vacation.

Three additional potential causes of a tsunami:

1. A really overweight American tourist who is parasailing in Pattaya bay whose chute breaks and he drops to the water's surface could cause a tsunami.

2. A wizard could point his magic staff and cause a tsunami - I saw it on Lord of the Rings.

3. If everyone in Pattaya was having sex to the same rhythem, it could cause an earthquake which would send a tsunami toward the western side of the gulf.

As I recall, the trip at Mae Sai could be done for either 500 baht OR $10 USD. Obviously, if you have USD, it is far cheaper.

Can anyone tell me whether the same is true at Mae Sot, or is 500 baht the only payment option there? Just curious.

Also, when you are in Mae Sot, say hello to Rambo for me.

I called the Thai consulate in Los Angeles today. The representative on the phone told me that it is possible to stay in Thailand for 180 days on a 2-entry 60 day visa. She said near the end of the 60-day term on each entry, I can apply for a 30 day extension in Bangkok. If there is no need for you to exit the country more than one time on your itenerary, perhaps this could work for you too.

I don't see a 3 entry tourist visa listed anywhere. Can anyone point me in the right direction, as this might be a better option for me (I am hoping to stay for 1 year, and it sounds like with extensions this type of visa could carry me for 9 months).

From the horse's mouth:

I called the Thai consulate in LA today and this is what they told me. Since my employer does not require me to be in Thailand to perform my duties, I do not qualify for a "B" Business visa. Their recommendation is to apply for a 60-day 2-entry Tourist visa.

The tourist visa allows me to stay for 60 days, then apply for a 30 day extension which wll allow me to stay for 90 days total. Without re-applying for a visa, I can then exit the country (after 90 days) and get another 60 days. At the end of the second 60 day period I can apply for another 30 day extension. So, essentially this 60 day Tourist visa is good for almost 6 months, provided I make 1 trip out of the country and 2 trips to Bangkok to get extensions.

At the end of the 6 month period, I can then exit Thailand and apply for another 60 day tourist visa, which if I follow the same procedure will carry me through another 6 months. Although she said I can apply for a new visa in Malaysia, it may not be legal to be in Malaysia for a few days without my passport while I wait for the visa to be approved.

I confirmed that I do not need a work permit or need to pay taxes in Thailand if I am not working for a company that has a presence or other purpose in Thailand.

What doesn't suprise me: the Thai lawyers were claiming that I need a type B visa because there is no way I can get one without their help and paying their fee. They told me 2 different things because one of them provides help to set up a business to get the work permit (for which they will charge me additional fees) and the other does not.

What does surprise me: this is legal to do on a Tourist visa according to the Thai consulate.

hi a girl stole 235000 from me..she used it to buy computors for a internet shop

she told me she would repay me ...i no she was talking aload of <deleted> so just waited to see what happened

now she has given them to a thai man who has a shop and dissapeared

any one have any ideas if this is a police matter...or do i get a lawyer to sort it out..

There are good investments and bad investments. This sounds like one of the latter. Calling it theft is akin to calling losing money in the stock market a theft - you have no legal ground to stand on here IMO.

My suggestion is just to learn a valuable lesson from this and move on. I have lost more money than this in the stock market if it makes you feel any better.

What you spend in Thailand, stays in Thailand.

number 6 is a big joke, the work permit is a complete application that requires a load of papers more than 19 different papers from the company.

You may be right about this.

I spoke with someone at Siam Legal today on the phone. He said that I won't need a work permit because I will not be earning income from a Thai company. He also said that Thai income taxes do not apply in this scenario.

When I asked about getting a work permit "just in case", he made it sound like this wasn't possible without setting up a business within Thailand.

Both of these points were contradictory to what Sunbelt Asia said. This is as clear as mud.

......then the law is an ass..........."

it is the prerequisite of a democratic or free country that stupid laws are questiones and refuted....this is NOT a national thing, it is an INTERNATIONAL problem....anyone who has any care for freedom and democracy has a right or rather an obligation to criticise such laws etc....otherwise how else would they change?

Refuted - yes

Broken - no

It is important to understand that there is a difference. Laws don't change because they are constantly broken, in fact you only give them more reason to enforce them.

Do you honestly think if 90% of the population started to pickpocket that the government would decide to make it legal? Majority rules - that's democracy, right?

If you disagree with the law (and you happen to reside in the country), then you have a right to try to stand up against the law. But keep in mind that breaking it only works against your cause. If you don't reside in the country, then follow the rules - you really have no say in the matter whatsoever.

so you never break the law do you?

I try not to knowingly break the law when I am in other countries, although sometimes I have without realizing it because of lack of knowledge on my part. For example, I didn't realize that pornography is illegal in Thailand last time I went and took some pictures I shouldn't have. I didn't get caught, and I don't even agree with this law, but does that make what I did right? I don't think so.

The fact of the matter is, it is extremely arrogant to break the law especially in another country. It is one thing to shit in your own yard, but to do it in someone else's is just rude. It makes it that much more difficult for the expats that live there.

I choose to ignore pointless, stupid, backward laws, which have failed since day 1 ,espeically when in place that are so double standard from not exactly the world most shining example of democracy,it make you cry.. or laugh

This is really a shame. What makes you think that you have the right to tell the Thai what laws they can make? I think it is senseless and arrogant to go to another country and complain because it is not like it is "back home". If you don't like the laws in the places you visit, why do you even go there?

If you continue to break the laws when you travel, then don't complain about the punishment you receive because it is most certainly justified. Your perception of the punishment not fitting the crime is irrelevant because you are the idiot that knowingly committed the crime.

I keep my cash in my left pocket try to sit on the edge of the baht bus on the left side and hold my hand firmly on the cash at all times. I don't care if this telegraphs were it is.

The one time they got me I was half way in the bus. The woman opposite dropped a baby in front of me. I instinctively caught it. The person of my left dipped me and immediately exited the bus whilst it was moving slowly in traffic.

I noticed and immediately started screaming but the bus was speeding up again and the women with the baby when questioned denied all knowledge.

Sometimes what can you do?

Don't catch falling babies!

One more thing I confirmed - for a Non-Immigrant B visa, you have to physically exit the country every 90 days, you cannot just register with immigration.

I just had an online chat with Sunbelt Asia and confirmed the following things...

1. The type of visa required for this activity is Non-Immigrant B.
   
2. A work permit is not required to apply for the visa for the first time.
   
3. A lawfirm such as Sunbelt Asia or Siam Legal can legally sponsor you so you won't need a letter from a prospective employer to get the Non-Immigrant B visa.
   
4. A work permit is required before you can legally work in Thailand, and can be obtained after you enter Thailand.
   
5. Setting up a Thai business is required if you wish to hire Thai employees, but is not required if you are working for a foreign company by yourself.
   
6. If you do not set up a business, a work permit can be issued on the basis of a Non-Immigrant B visa entry status alone.
   

All of the above statements (except for the one about the work permit requirement to work) are inline with what Siam Legal said.

I am going to wait until their "specialist" contacts me before asking about income taxes.

I am also having a friend in the legal industry check with the California state bar to see if there are any complaints registered against Siam Legal.

I just had an online chat with Sunbelt Asia and confirmed the following things...

1. The type of visa required for this activity is Non-Immigrant B.
   
2. A work permit is not required to apply for the visa for the first time.
   
3. A lawfirm such as Sunbelt Asia or Siam Legal can legally sponsor you so you won't need a letter from a prospective employer to get the Non-Immigrant B visa.
   
4. A work permit is required before you can legally work in Thailand, and can be obtained after you enter Thailand.
   
5. Setting up a Thai business is required if you wish to hire Thai employees, but is not required if you are working for a foreign company by yourself.
   
6. If you do not set up a business, a work permit can be issued on the basis of a Non-Immigrant B visa entry status alone.
   

All of the above statements (except for the one about the work permit requirement to work) are inline with what Siam Legal said.

chameleon1977

Funny, this was exactly the same question I had on my post here. In fact, I will also be doing web development for an overseas (US) company while in Thailand.

First of all, I was told by Siam Legal that to work in Thailand you will need a Non-Immigrant B visa, not a Non-Immigrant O. Others have stated that it probably doesn't make much difference because a work permit can be obtained either way. However, since it sounds like a business will need to be set up in Thailand to get a work permit, you are probably better off with a Non-Immigrant B. Since you have a Thai wife, the O type may be right for you, speak to an attorney before making the decision which visa to apply for as it could affect your chances of getting approved.

There seems to be a lot of confusion around this issue because the members at TV will tell you the opposite of what it says on the Thai Embassy website (at least the one in the US). If you have never worked in Thailand before, you do not need a WP before you can get the visa.

From http://www2.thaiembdc.org/consular/visa/Non-Img.aspx under Non-Immigrant type "B" visa:

· A copy of Work Permit issued by the Ministry of Labour and alien income tax or Por Ngor Dor 91 (only in the case where applicant has previously worked in Thailand)

The issue here is that most of the people giving advice have been renewing their visa and in that case you do need a work permit to apply. However, for entry into the country you will need the Non-Immigrant B visa before you leave the UK shores and a work permit is not a requirement to obtain it.

A requirement that is needed however, is a letter of invitation from a Thai company. I have been told this company can be a Thai law firm, and hiring a law firm is probably the easiest way to obtain one if you are not going to be working for a Thai company. In your case, you might be able to have your wife set up the company first and create the letter of invitation which will save you money, but it will likely not be as easy as hiring the attorney yourself to get the visa.

Once in Thailand, a business will need to be established in order to get a work permit. Despite what Siam Legal told me, everything I have read indicates that a work permit is required to work within Thailand legally, even if it is for a foreign company. In my case, I am a self-employed consultant and my client is a US company, which probably means I have to set up a company in Thailand and get a work permit. If you are employed by the company in the UK, it may be a different scenario than mine.

digitalchromakey and scifi, thanks for the info.

I found this post on Lonely Planet that concurs with what you say and I think the picture is getting much clearer for me now. It seems like getting the attorney is by far the simplest route in my case being that I will need that invitation letter to get a Non Immigrant B visa and it would be difficult for me to achieve that otherwise.

Siam Legal's office is only about 30 minutes from my apartment and for that reason I am a little more inclined to use their service vs. hiring an attorney who is physically located in Thailand.

I should also mention that the person I chatted with at Siam Legal also said I won't need to get a work permit for the type of work I am doing (web development and marketing for a US company). I will not be working with any Thai companies directly, will not be competing against a Thai company or taking away or providing any Thai jobs. I will have to get confirmation of this when I hire an attorney though.

I am also not sure if Thai income taxes apply to me since I will be having money deposited in my US bank account from a company in the US and only transferring living expenses into Thailand. This income falls under US income tax laws. In a sense, this situation is not much different than a tourist or a retiree.

if you wanna do it legally, setup your own company, good prices are 25000 bath including the paperwork, the stamps, the vat card anything more expensive is useless(for a two million bath capital).

then you'll have to find an accountant and apply for your work permit, if it's a "personnal" company(understaning just to issue a work permit) the accounting fees shouldn't be higher than 1000 bath a month and 10000 bath for the annual balance sheet.

this is what i pay in samui and samui is known to be more expensive than other places.

From what I understand, I need to apply for the visa before I get to Thailand as they don't issue them once there. So what you are saying here is I need to set up a company within Thailand from the US before I apply for the visa?

The work permit from what I understand can only be acquired once I get to Thailand (provided I have a B or O type visa), so getting an accountant once I am there and taking care of the work permit shouldn't be an issue.

Problem is these days understand you need a receipt of proof that you have applied for your WP to be submitted with your paper work

before they issue a Non-imm B at a lot of consulates.

You could get a Non-imm B based on the fact up want to persue a possible business interest in Thailand, but if you are running a business here you still need a WP. Believe you could also get a WP on a Typ O visa as well

Getting WP's and extensions of stay based on employment etc are not quick and easy to obtain if you don;t qualify.....bear in mind the Work permit is a separate goverment department and is nothing to do with the immigration dept..

Like I said, from what I understand the visa is something I have to get before I get to Thailand and the WP is something I obtain once I am there. So how is it that you are suggesting issuing the visa is dependent on whether I have a work permit since I can't apply for the proper visa legally once I am inside Thailand?

From http://www2.thaiembdc.org/consular/visa/Non-Img.aspx under type "B" visa:

· A copy of Work Permit issued by the Ministry of Labour and alien income tax or Por Ngor Dor 91 (only in the case where applicant has previously worked in Thailand)

Since I have never worked in Thailand, it would seem that I won't need the work permit to get the visa. I realize I need to get a WP once there, but that is a seperate issue provided I have the correct type of visa to apply for it.

I agree with most posters, drugs are illegal in Thailand and we have no sympathy with him.

But saying that the OP has raised a very valid point of the double jeopardy issue, as he was prevented from leaving why should he be fined for overstaying also.

What would happen if a person was held or prevented from leaving Thailand and eventually found not guilty or the charges dropped but were fined for overstaying, would that not be an injustice?

BB

So he got a crappy lawyer that didn't follow up and get him through the correct deportation channels. You are blaming immigration for charging him for the overstay for this?

Bottom line here is that breaking the law wherever you are can be problematic. You don't want the problems, don't break the laws. Going to jail doesn't make the clock stop on your bills, mortgage, debt collectors, or credit rating, why should it stop for things like overstaying?

oh dear-please people, think a little carefully about what you say- no you do NOT go to jail if you take drugs, only ,if you get caught..

if you are,nt able to pay off the cops, judge, etc, etc- again, look where we are...

and you can just walk straight back in..as many have done.

Its very easy.

A 'deportation means almost zero for anyone with a little cash/knowhow.

Yes, make ,em all legal. I think, and research has been done that there would,nt be a big raise in junkys.

there is a limit to how many people want to take such things

but crime would fall, and so would the money/time wasted in punishing the users

Or continue to fight a war we,ll never win.

Stop treating people like babys. Stop blaming dealers all the time. Look further.

Obviously the war on drugs is not working-because it so stupid and ill-informed.Its anti natural- so will never work.

people will never stop,its the 5th need, and besides, most peoples lives are so dull drugs gives them a bit of fun.

the addictive personality will always find a way to mess him self up. Sadly.

If things were legal at least they would,nt find themselves possibly buying really bad things from bad people and face possible prison sentances and danger .Thats just so stupid.

Puting away some poor john because he,s taken something. What does that really achieve?

s

There is a middle ground- how to do illegal drugs in damage limiting way, and if legal they,d get consulling, and the big bosses would lose power.

hence, it probabaly will not happen

While I personally believe that marijuana should be legal everywhere, the fact is it is not. The letter writer's brother was breaking the law whether it is agreed with unanimously or not. There is no point arguing that the punishment didn't fit the crime - there was a crime and it was punished according to local laws.

And what you said about the war on drugs being anti-natural is a really lame comment. So are you implying that inhaling the smoke of burning dried leaves on purpose is natural? Are you implying the fact that some people "need" pot to calm down is natural? I don't know about you, but I don't see any babies born with a joint in their mouth. Going cold sober is as natural as you can get. The lawmakers recognize this and that is why pot is not legal in most places.

Petitioning to make the law change to suit your needs is your right. Ignoring the law and breaking it anyway is just arrogant - especially if it is not in your own country.

...the ones that aren't passed out under the table...

So you must have found me then. If so, please give back my wallet.