thefalang

I feel safe in Thailand almost anywere. Not so in America. Phuket is still a very safe place dispite the high profile stories. It's an island the size of Singapore whose official population of 300,000 swells to over half a million during high season due to seasonal labor and tourism.

Come on, and this is the person who was the victim of "road rage" recently (see http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Crazy-Tuk-Tu...d-t328523.html). Do you really feel "safe anywhere in Thailand"? When is the last time you experienced the same situation in America? Have you ever actually lived in America and if so, where?

Crimes do happen "everywhere" in the world but in varying frequencies. You really shouldn't discredit the UK & US police forces by putting them in the same category as the Thai police. That's a real insult. 

Phuket is not a safe place to live and I challenge you to demonstrate otherwise.

Sorry Scuba you are well off the mark with the number of people here.

Also I was brought up in the roughest part of Liverpool but I never had three murders, gang rape[maybe] People mugged and countless other things that don't get reported but I know about within two miles of my home in twelve months.

In the last year I have had two attempted break in's, been scambed out of a bit of money, my wife was attacked walking from the shop.

I would feel safer in Afghanistan sometimes!

I agree but the crimes you have mentioned are just a fraction of the crimes that this area has actually experienced.

It's unfortunate that so many people here are in a state of denial & refuse to acknowledge the seriousness of Phuket's crime problem.

Scepticism, for the love of dear God it's pure unadulterated fabrication and propaganda.

Eloquently stated! I was attempting to be diplomatic but I couldn't have said it any better than you have...

It would interesting to compare details of the 45 reported murders with those of the murders that have been reported in the media. That might indicate the accuracy of the crime statistics compiled by the police.  

Are details (victims names, etc) available from the police statistics?

No statistics regarding rape, attempted rapes...

1,588 arrests for prostitution in 1-year... That's particularly amusing. No explanation required here. Good work "Sherlock"!

I read these statistics with skepticism, to say the least. They are compiled by the police dept and most probably provide the main source of data used to determine the effectiveness of the police dept. Need I say more? 

Come on folks! He plead guilty and paid the fine to get the hel_l out of that shit hole. These tuck tuk drivers are just to thuggish to believe that he was a victim of this Canadian. I once had a motor bike run into my parked car and I ended up paying for his hospital treatment just to get my passport back from the police. That fish you smell is Thai justice and the totally ingrained bias against white farangs. It is all about tea money and nothing to do with fairness. All part of the excitement of being in Thailand.

I say that you are completely correct and that it doesn't require arocket scientist to see through all the rhetoric. A 51-yr old kicked a 30-yrold local in the chest, etc. over 50 baht... Perhaps the Canadian man kicked because hishands were restrained... Perhaps he was fighting for his life… These peoplearrive in Phuket ignorant of the dangers that await them because, in part,these forums are not completely truthful.

He simply decided to cut his losses and leave town, just as most foreigners woulddo when faced with the choice of 1. remaining in Thailandindefinitely to fight the charges in a dysfunctional, corrupt legal environmentor, 2. plead guilty, pay a modest fine and return to your home, familyand job abroad.

What a scam! These people here have no concept of ethics, morality or justiceand are simply predators. It's completely "law of the jungle" and money. I say “shame of you” to those whohave rallied to support the tuk-tuk drivers, most of which are uneducated thugswho's livelihood is based on cheating foreigners.

I say start a website outside of Thailandthat the Thais cannot censor and report the truth, whatever it may be. Blogsbased in Thailandare, unfortunately, full of non-Thais operating businesses here with their own “priorities”and agendas and perhaps less willing to be completely candid.

Good luck!

I really have to agree with you on all the above. The only way things will change here is if the Thais feel the repercussions of their actions on their wallets! It's a simple feedback system and works.

It's unfortunate that many of the innocent non-Thais doing business here will suffer somewhat also but "denial" is not a viable option. I say spread the news, good or bad and let the "chips land where they fall"!

He had to plead guilty or lose his flight.

That happened to me when I was at the airport from a taxi ripping me off and I refused to pay some extortionate amount. The tourist police said to me - Pay it or you will come to the station. I could not refuse the payment, or I would have had to get a new flight.

Justice in this case... NO, IMO, he had to pay to leave the country or it would have cost him another small fortune to get another flight out.... Sometimes principals are best left at home.

TBS

A friend, an attorney in Los Angeles visiting Phuket, was run into from behind a motorcycle driven by an under-aged, unlicensed 14-yr old "kid". The motorcycle was attempting to pass in a no pass zone located in a business district in Kata. My friend was not at fault.

The Chalong police told my friend that if he did not plead guilty, he would be forced to remain in Phuket until the trial would take place, "many months away", as he was told by the police. My friend was forced to sign a declaration that he had caused the accident, in order to return to his law practice in Los Angeles on his scheduled flight. 

This is one method that the local police use to coerce foreigners into accepting responsibilty for crimes, accidents, etc that they did not commit. It's just one more scam in the Land of Smiles. 

In my mind, there are basically two important issues here: 

1. the tuk-tuk driver resorted to violence to solve a problem - I believe that most people would agree that he was wrong and should be held responsible for his actions.

2. The tourist agreed to a fare and then attempted to renegotiate the fare after her realized that it was excessive - Is it fair and/or proper to overcharge someone due to their lack of knowledge of local market prices?  

I once spoke to a restaurant owner in Phuket town which catered to busloads of Japanese tourists. He used two menus (one in Thai and one in English language). Prices on the English menu were 200% that of the Thai menu. The owner maintained that there was no problem in charging the tourists double price because they ordered from the English menu and by doing so accepted the inflated prices. The owner had no problems whatsoever with the ethical considerations of his operation. This seems to be the mindset of many local businessmen, including the tuk-tuk drivers. 

Perhaps I'm just old-fashioned but I was raised to believe that overcharging a person was taking unfair advantage and was considered a undesirable conduct to say the least, regardless of the fact that he might have been unfamiliar with local conditions.  

The same situation applies to tuk-tuks and taxis in Phuket but is made even worse due to the fact that competition has been essentially eliminated. Tourists have limited options and are forced in some cases to paying fares which have no connection with market-driven prices. A free market system for transportation in Phuket would eliminate what is no more than an officially-condoned transportation scam.  

hehehehe, they are not my crime statistics as you say. Me posting police docs on internett, i doubt it.

Police make crime stats public in newspapers like Phuketgazette. In depth stats are not my job to post.

I trust crime-statistics as comparing number of police reported crimes compared to number of residents more than someone from Patong visiting a place once a week to inspect crime and then publish his findings

Chalong Policestation is on your way on your weekly trips to inspect L & H, and you can ask to see them there.

I remember in the mid-80's and requesting HIV statistics from a gov't office in Bangkok. They told me it was "confidential information" and such information was not made public. Don't on count on obtaining meaningful stats from a gov't entity on a sensitive subject.

Great news.

If Herr Jeck, in his spare time, could clean the other 100,000 dirty, stinking public latrines in Thailand, everyone could take a pleasant "dump".

For the most part the เทศกิจ (pronounced; thaed-sa-gid) which is the metropolitan code enforcement agency for cleanliness in Bangkok does target foreigners over thais. The moral of this story is; DON'T FRICKIN' LITTER YOU MORON. They are most definitely NOT police as they neither carry guns nor handcuffs, so they're just what it says on their sleeves; “municipal code enforcers”.

The เทศกิจ have a booth at the mouth of my soi and for the most part are good guys just doing a job. It's certainly not a scam, and neither do they "line their pockets" as a previous poster alluded to. I routinely drink with them after their shift is over and they certainly don’t seem to be rolling in frickin’ baht. They give receipts, track the fines paid, as well as the nationalities of the offenders in their log book at their little booth. I’ve sat with them many times watching them bring in foreigners who’ve they apprehended littering. I don't see anything wrong with them using their walkie-talkies to watch, follow, and fine foreigners who litter. Deal with it.

I hate whiners who break the law and then cry about the injustice of it all. Of course the fine for thais littering is cheaper; few if any thais have 2000 baht on them, while almost all tourists do. The sign a previous poster mentions does say foreigners are subjected to a maximum fine of 2000baht, and the thai sign says that effective next year thais will receive a minimum fine of 100 baht. This is a new and recently passed piece of the “keep Bangkok beautiful” legislation. It is also true that you can expect a bigger fine if you throw your cigarette butt into the sewer or drain, and they have a laminated card at their booth that outlines this in horrendously worded engrish.

Please dear reader; lest you think I am one of the color-coordinated shirt and matching snazzy rubber bracelet wearing "wanna-b-thai" foreign sock-puppets living in this pissant shit-hole country who says if you don’t like it leave, think again.

You would be hard pressed indeed to find someone who is more a card carrying member of the thai bashing faction on this forum than myself. With that being said, if you do actually break the law, however minor an infraction, what gives you the right as a foreigner to get a free pass? Hmmm, the mind wobbles at the injustice of it all.

That Bangkok Scam site does show some of the more prevalent scams that occur to tourists but hey, that happens to tourists the world over in tourist areas, so really no different than any country. It is my experience that stupidity knows no country borders or nationalities, and as Forrest Gump said, “Stupid is as stupid does.”

Go save the pangolins, or something. ..

I live in Phuket and I think it's about time that the Thai government has begun to enforce littering laws. In Phuket, it's more often the locals that openly throw their trash on the beaches, along the streets, vacant lots, etc. whereas foreigners seem to be more aware of the fact that garbage doesn't belong on the beach, etc. Perhaps this is do to better enforcement of anti-littering laws in other countries.

The only problem that I have is that the law should be enforced indiscriminately without prejudice. Foreigners shouldn't be singled out and forced to pay fines far in excess of what a Thai would pay. This type of selective law enforcement does fit my definition of a scam.

Chiang Mai from Patong, I can see you have very limited knowledge about L & H Phuket. Its divided into several villages, usually one village has only one or two house designs, and therfor one house does not stick out as faranghome to be burglared.

Low income thais in L & H? Properties from 3 -12 mill baht does not normally have low income thai residents.

The village I own a property in does not have more than 300 meters to any of the guard posts, and they do show up in 3 minutes. They also escort unwelcome guests out, with or without police assitance, in a few minutes. Thats what a private guarded estate is all about. I do admit being truthfull here, despite your lack of knowledge.

As some villages get older, initial 5 years of commonfees are blown and some owners refuse to pay, security could be stepped down in this village. As in every estate, some areas within the estate are better and safer.

Entering L & H unseen in a vehicle? Watch the cameras, recording stored for 2 weeks.

I m not living in L & H any more. Have just been sharing my experince of a very safe, but for me rather boring, way of living in Phuket.

According to local Police, L & H is the safest place to live in this district with less crime than average. Thats basicly what this thread is about.

I don't dispute what you have posted but please don't reference and/or quote the local police, they don't have a clue!

Oh, the best part is that the land owner also owns the house that you built on the property too!

Not really, the land owner can buy the house at an agreed price, failing that the house owner can do whatever he likes with the house before the land lease expires.

That probably depends on how the lease is written. Many leases stipulate that any improvements made by lessee become property of lessor upon expiration of the lease. I believe that a foreigner lessee would encounter problems should he wish to demolish improvements just prior to the land lease expiration. Who knows!!!

There will be others more expert than I am, but a common lease form is the 30-years, but a 30+30+30 lease has been around for some years now. That's the original 30 with options to renew. But the options are a weak crutch, subject to the owner being alive, etc. The 30-year lease will be registered at the land office, giving you good protection for the first 30 years, but the options will not be filed there. Some advisors suggest that the owner include the option provision in his/her will, which is again quite weak, subject to will revision, codicils, etc. that you will never know about.

Many previous TV posts on this. 30+30+30 is NOT recognized or registered by the Land Office.

Therefore it is <deleted>, a creation of falang realtors to separate gullible falang from $$$.

Anything beyond the first 30 is a personal agreement that would not be binding on heirs or successors. All that has to be done to screw Joe Bloggs is for the owner to sell the land to his brother-in-law two weeks before the 30 years is up. Oh, you can go to court about it.... great idea when you are 84 years old and your home has just disappeared.

I agree 100%. You summed it up good.

All these people who purchased a 30-yr leasehold estate 20-yrs ago (for the same amount as what a fee simple interest would have cost) are now realizing that their equity is quickly losing value. Instead of having a substantial equity build-up from 20-yrs of appreciation, they're holding property that they cannot sell and will revert to the Thai owner in a mere 10-years. It's sad.

It's a great way for the Thais to secure a retirement fund, they can literally sell the property twice. It reverts back to them in 30-yrs at a substantially increased value and they sell it again. Oh, the best part is that the land owner also owns the house that you built on the property too!

Sorry I don't know either but would love to know. The cheap acrylic skeins are available everywhere.

Ohh I should add.. The friend that had his wife kidnapped and drugged etc.. He then got a gun, fully legal in the missus name, licensed etc.. With part of the process one of the police came round and said "OK now you have a legal gun at home, go out and get a second unregistered gun, then if you shoot anyone just leave the other gun by the person you shot and you wont get in trouble" !!

That was the advice of the police officer himself !!

"License in his missus name"... So it is quite easy for a Thai to purchase and own a gun, but not necessarily have the authority to carry it in public on their person? It seems like a relatively high percentage of Thai males do own and "carry" guns.

I have always heard that foreigner's cannot be personally own a gun.

In a huge gated community like L & H one advantage is the number of securityguards. At the gates and patroling on bicycles. If any incident occurs, you just blow the whistle and no need to wait for police 30 minutes. 3 guards show up within 3 minutes.

Another advantage is that all the houses are similar, not one sticking out as the rich farang to be burglared.

I chose to live like this for 2 years while developing properties, which is a rather risky business. At the same time I upgraded my private security with one more lisenced gun and a rottweiler. I now live in a mixed and more exciting community without guards. Some neighbors have been burglared, I have not. Just like back home.

Sounds like you have it sorted out.

Are foreigners eligible to own a gun here and if so, under what circumstances, etc?

You are missing the point as usuall.

noone is disputing an attempted rape....nor the occasional mugging or violent assault.

The point is that this forum and in particular a VERY vocal minority are distoring the real figures and exagerating the real problems.

I am home..so where am i going..and I am not downplaying anything

These negative posts are not an ACCURATE portrayal of the facts and yes it is affecting my income..so why do I not have the right the take umbrage with you for what you are saying. This forum is read by tourists considering a vacation in Phuket and when you make comments like "ghetto" it is a complete distortion of the real dangers here and right now we need all the bodies we can get.

and thanks for you recomendation about avoiding debates in bars...I find them much more useful than the utter tripe you are serving up on this forum. You are the one with the knee jerk reaction to a very calm situation.....And to any one considering a vaction here and reading these words I sugest it is because these people want the beaches to themselves.

"Very calm situation" ...

Fine, you tell that to my friend who almost was raped several months ago, the many friends who have been burglarized & traumatized and the Japanese man who was "torched" in his car the other day.

Phuket is not a "ghetto" but exhibits many crime statistics that resemble that of a ghetto.

I feel you are too biased to comment on this issue fairly due to your "economic" situation. I suspect that many posts dispelling the crime situation in these forums are in the same category.

One thing I do agree is that L&H has far better than average moobaan security. And that in turn should mean break ins are less common.

A few years ago I would never have wanted to live in a gated community, as I dont like population density and suburbia.. Now with rising crime I am starting to see security as a far bigger issue.

Yes, I agree with you completely.

After living here for many years I now realize the importance of the “safety in numbers” concept and the “circle the wagons” syndrome.

You’re much safer in a gated community.

That dream about building that beautiful, spacious house with large garden, etc compromises your security significantly and makes you too vulnerable to burglary, etc. You’re almost forced into living in a high-density and/or multiple-family development for safety, the mode of living that many foreigners come here to escape from!

But I'll follow my own advice to LOS and not get into a personal and senseless discussion.

This discussion is only "personal" and "senseless" to the extent of those who choose to make it so.

This is the same discussion we have been having here on the forum over and over again.

Let's say there are opposing views on this.

I have no personal experience with Land & Home but crime there must be similar to what you find in the general area.

Funny statement coming from somebody who claimed very recently here never to give any statements unless supported by statistics.

Even if I quoted statistics from the United Nations regarding Land & Home (which are unfortunately not available), you'd just dismiss them as "dodgy" anyways.

Perhaps I'll start using an Ouija board to base my opinions upon and then some of the readers could relate better.

Yes this is true I guess, for some falang crime can be percieved as higher than it actually is because they are generally the targets.

A population of aproximately 250,000 and 5 million tourists per year...makes the average population here appoximately 420,000.

That puts it on a par with the following (2008 crime figures for some random cities I selected)

St Louis, Missouri, USA population 348,197...40 murders 73 rapes and 9,736 property crimes

Atlanta, Georgia, USA popuation 497,290...26 murders 30 rapes and 7,286 property crimes

Minneaolis, Minnesota, USA population 371,240.. murders 13 murders 122 rapes 6072 property crimes

As people have said before in my opinion Phuket isnt any better or worse than most big cities/towns around the world. Ive not been here a huge amount of time but i havent seen or heard first hand of any crime. The most dangererous thing in my opinion is getting on a MB.

It appears from your calcs that you've assumed that the average tourist stays 29.4 days, which is a bit long.

Besides, your methodolgy is flawed. You can't just add the number of tourists (in a time weighted average format) to a resident population and then extrapolate. It's not that easy!

Even if your calcs were meaningful (which they are not), Atlanta, Georgia - 26 murders in one year? I think you'll probably find that Phuket surpassed that number in 2-3 months this year.

You might be correct with respect to burglary in certain areas but the other hand, there are certain crimes whereas a foreigner might have less probability of encountering than a local. The stats that I'm referring to are not race-dependant and it's overall crime levels that are compiled.

I agree that the victims of crimes are not evenly distributed evenly over the entire population but overall levels are extremely high for many crimes. For instance, as per a UN survey a few years ago, Thailand ranked along with Columbia and So Africa regarding the number of homicides with firearms (Thailand ranked #3 in the world and experenced a per capita rate approx 6 times that of the US!).

I happen to know one of the woman of the attempted rapes and you're doing her a real disservice by dispelling what actually happened.

Perhaps you're the one who should "go home" because you're the one who's biased with possible alterior motives, along with your "20 Thai staff", who's income most likely depends on the how foreigners perceive certain possible dangers here in Phuket. If you're running a business (or an employee), it only enhances your situation (and pocketbook) to downplay information that could be construed as negative by a foreigner.

I personally have more to lose than gain from any downturn in the Thai economy & it would be beneficial to myself to say what a safe, crime-free place this is, contrary to my belief otherwise. I recommend that you avoid those "debates in the bar" and think rationally instead of having a "knee-jerk" reaction relative to preserving your income flow.

If anyone claims to have lived in L & H for more than a year and not heard of burglaries in the complex they are either living their life as a hermit or they are being seriously economical with the truth!

I agree with "chiangmai", he must be living in a bubble! I have no personal experience with Land & Home but crime there must be similar to what you find in the general area.

I can't keep count of the number of people I know who have been burglared, many of which were home when the burglar entered their home. Domestic crime (theft from employees, etc) is yet another matter and occurs frequently.

Over the past 15-yrs, I know westerners who have been the victim of attempted rapes, shot, stabbed, killed on the roads(many dozens), beaten with clubs, burned to death, robbed on the street, etc, etc. I know several Thais who have shot and murdered a number of people.

In my home country, I don't know anyone who's experienced any of these situations and/or committed these crimes, other than an infrequent traffic accident. I keep hearing vague statements such as "the chances of it happening here are no greater or no less than many other places, depends on which cities you compare them to" with nothing to substantiate such a claim. I maintain that crime/violence in Thailand (even more so in Phuket) is extremely high and the situation will not be remedied until there's an acknowledgement that the problem exists. The statistics uphold my claims.

I'm beginning to wonder if some of the people in these forums actually live in Phuket.