caulfield2

2 minutes ago, GanDoonToonPet said:

I'm in China and received the first dose of the Sinopharm BIBP vaccine last week. It's not on the approved list either but somehow the Sinovac vaccine is, even though both are not yet approved by the WHO.

What is BIBP?

On my vaccine "receipt" for the second dosage April 23rd, it refers to it as "VERO."

I know that Sinovac has two different vaccines as well, so not sure if Thailand is approving one or both.

According to the article (quoted below), China was only at 65 million vaccinated out of 1.4 billion (one dose+) as of two weeks ago.

TAIPEI, TAIWAN -- China has approved a new COVID-19 vaccine for emergency use, one that was developed by the head of its Center for Disease Control, adding a fifth shot to its arsenal.

Gao <deleted>, the head of China's CDC, led the development of a protein subunit vaccine that was approved by regulators last week for emergency use, the Chinese Academy of Sciences' Institute of Microbiology said in a statement Monday.

It is the fifth coronavirus vaccine approved in China and the fourth to be given emergency use approval. Three of those given emergency approval have since been approved for general use. All were developed by Chinese companies.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/china-approves-another-covid-19-vaccine-for-emergency-use-1.5348960

They weren't thinking very clearly if they want to encourage tourism from China and Russia, that's for sure.

They have included only two of the five (authorized inside of China vaccines.)

Which means that at least 50% of the population here receiving Sinopharm VERO, CanSinoBio or the new one authorized by the Chinese CDC would be out of luck.

When you go to the clinic or hospital in China, there are currently long lines that are being announced within just 24-48 hours and you have no control over which vaccine/s you receive.

It would be ridiculous to go out and get another vaccination JUST for Thailand when the Sinopharm one is around 79% effectiveness (50% is the bottom of acceptable range), which is arguably better than the results from the two Coronavac vaccines that Thailand supposedly is approving.

One would think that SOMEONE in Thailand is actually looking at the situation in China more closely or carefully than an English/Economics teacher in an international high school in Wuhan.

Especially if the stated goals are an increase (at least beginning in October, when China celebrates its National Week holidays) Chinese and Russian tourism.

You have a few things going on here.

Making the "slant eyes" face is pretty much universally viewed as racist around the world.

That said, you have to look at the context, if it's directed at an Asian person.

Of course, in ads and billboards/marketing, you can't 100% control your target audience.

There are two ways they're attempting to be clever.

One, making the commonly-heard assertion that China is on the rise and that America/Europe are the past...

Two, turning on its head the idea that Western/falang models are always going to be used to market luxury shopping experiences to Asians, especially Chinese. I always say when you go to the US and you see Asian models in all the Abercrombie and J Crew catalogs...that will be the day that advertisers are really taking the Asian market seriously, instead of the common idea today that all things Western and "looking white/fair" is enough of a message to get a response from consumers.

Basically, the younger Asian demographic is changing and the old/traditional methods of using white, blonde haired blue eyed models in adverts is going out of style.

I think you'd have to ask a bunch of random Chinese shoppers and see how they felt about it. Some would be offended, some would think it was clever, some might think it's showing how dominant China has become in the global economic/consumerism conversation.

I would have thought Thai students were WORSE than this. The stupid systems the Government has for people who ACTAULLY speak english is terrible. You have to LEAVE thailand to get a visa for a few months to come back and TEACH THais english. Then the money you earn you use agaoin to leave the country to get another Vidsa to come back. this is the case for most people I speak to or they teach ILLEGALLY on retirement visas. getting a proper work visa is hard because the incentive to be paid a low wage is not really there.

The government if it wants PROPER ENGLISH TEACHERS needs to change its visa policy otherwise thais will be going back to living under banana palms and climbing cocoumt trees... or chasing faranbngs dfor income as they are proficient at.

I have travelled EXTENSIVELY and Thailand with SO MANY TOURISTS lags behind the world in Elglish

If you think the level of Elglish (sic) in Thailand is the worst in the world try going to places like Venezuela in South America

Well, part of that is the anti-America, anti-gringo, anti-English values inculcated by Mr. Chavez, one would think.

Having lived next door in Colombia, there is a desire in countries like Peru, Ecuador, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, etc., to learn English as much as possible (under whatever the given circumstances).

Plus, very few north americans are retiring there in Venezuela (only MLB baseball players, and then you're still randomly exposed to robberies, kidnappings and ransoms).....but, just like with Costa Rica and Panama, more and more Americans will be looking for lower cost retirement options and some of those countries I mentioned in the second paragraph will pick up even more in their English assimilation levels over time.

Just heard on the Australian news that Australian companies are planning to set up call centres in Thailand and the Phillipines. Without trying to seem racist and I apologise if I come across that way but I hope they have a very good grasp of the english language.

At the moment if you call a utilities company in Australia you are on hold for up to an hour and then finally get someone in India. Indians have an extreemly poor grasp of the language, you can't understand them and they can't understand you. You end up tearing your hair out and throwing the phone across the room after an hour of trying to explain that you simply want your water or gas connected to your home. Thais are going to have to speak a lot clearer than the Indians.

There's the problem. Thais with great english skills don't work in call centres (or become school teachers for that matter). Their earning capacity is very high and won't generally work for the paltry salaries of call centres.

I'm not too fussed about accents. As long as someone can speak clearly and can communicate, that should be the main goal of second language learners. Wealthy parents obsessed about accent send their kids to the US for a year....they quickly pick up an American accent...some do at least. Actually the clearest english I've heard was on TV - some germans reporting news in english.....it was strange to listen to someone and not being about to tell where they come from. There was no regional accent.

For the Philippines, the normally call center salary range is 15-25,000 php, depending on your city. Most of them are located in Manila and Baguio.

That's roughly $375-$625 per month, depending on experience and ability.

I would guess the Thai salaries would be somewhere in the vicinity of 13-17,000 baht per month....maybe 20,000 in Bangkok.

Anyone have any firsthand knowledge? At any rate, those salaries won't attract anyone but recent university graduates (mostly English majors) in their 20's.

The message is getting through.

A lot of schools in BKK, including my own, have opened Intensive English Programmes in the past year. This means the students get an English lesson or two everyday instead of the old one a week

All a bit late for ASEAN though. The results of this will take 10+ years to be seen.

IEPs, EPs and MEPs are cash cows for schools, literally gold mines. You think they are opening everywhere for the benefit of the students? If so you're sadly mistaken.

Education is a business everywhere in the world but only in Thailand, that I know of, would profit, e.g. making payments on the school director's new Benz, be put so far ahead of the welfare of students. Most schools won't even spring for books and resourced for the students and even when teachers who care pony up and buy their own they are confronted with draconian copy policies at the school to save a few Baht.

But they are very good at refusing to let you make copies and forcing relatively lower middle class students to buy Thai English textbooks...profit over principles. Not that it doesn't happen all over the world, but the university system is ridden with road-blocks.

I say this from having taught at Burapha University in Bangsaen/Chonburi for two years, having taught at two Chinese universities, one Chinese international/IB school (current job), as well as South Korea and the Philippines.

I have two Master's degrees (one in Curriculum and Instruction) and a BA in English (Univ. of Iowa) and my salary for university work was only around 26,000+ baht in 2008-2010, with roughly 6+ years of teaching experience at the time I took the job (four in US high schools/certified English and Social Studies teacher, one at an accredited Colombian international school in South America).

I lived in a pretty new furnished condo a couple of blocks from the beach, my rent was about $125 USD per month and air conditioning anywhere from $70-100 USD per month. So that left about $700-750 USD per month to live on...so you could definitely have a nice lifestyle, massages (not THAT kind!) once a week, nice seafood and affordable dining, but you certainly weren't going to be saving any money, no way.

Sorry but I just don't believe the numbers quoted:

- Thai students - 450 - believable.

- Singapore students - 550 - not believable because teachers actually teach 99%

of all classes in English in singapore, students totally immersed in English from

day 1 at Kindergarten. The averageTOEFL score for Singapore students must be

a lot higher than 550 / the gap cannot be just 100, impossible.

Exactly what I thought while reading the report ...

I may have a solution/explanation. Presumably TOEFL scores are only recorded for those who take a TOEFL test. As most Singaporeans speak fluent English (or at least, 'Singlish') they are unlikely to be taking the test at all. Those taking it are likely to be Singapore residents from non-English speaking countries such as Indonesia and Bangladesh. Hence 550 as thy will have ben taught by native English languag spekers from Singapore or elsewhere.

This makes a lot of sense as a possible reason/rationale for the seemingly low number.

There's NO WAY in Hades Singapore and Malaysia are tied.

I think they're not even close to being in the same ballpark. And the numbers in Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia are probably skewed a bit because there are so few students from those countries actually taking the TOEFL on a yearly basis, especially Laos and Myanmar.

Most of the Myanmar students taking it are probably international school students planning to study abroad, coming from fairly wealthy backgrounds.

Whereas a lot of Thai students have the vague idea of studying abroad, in the US, England/UK, Australia, NZ, Canada (especially for Thais), but there are more students around the world choosing to take the IELTS exam than TOEFL.

For a number of reasons, IELTS is becoming more of the standard and more and more commonly is being accepted in the US in lieu of a qualifying TOEFL score.

Another reason for the low Thai scores (besides digressing into a pointed attack on the Thai education system, the lack of English used outside of the touristy areas, disdain for foreign influence coming from the government) is simply that MOST Thai students don't choose America for studies because of the ease of studying in another countries like Canada or Australia that are more aggressive in pursuing Thai students.

Whereas the US is presently consumed with swallowing up as many Chinese and Indian students as possible because of the rapidly increasing GDP and disposable incomes in the elite class...with those monies now being allocated to international schools, tutors, study abroad/student exchange programs and the hiring of placement agents, etc.

Finally, Thailand and much of Asia doesn't tend to be centered on a reading/literature culture. This is going to be hard to overcome, and it's an issue all across Asia, not just Thailand.

Canada and Australia speak English, last I heard. Even if some Thai students take the IELTS now, how does that lower others in taking the TOEFL? If you can speak and write English, either exam should reflect that.

Because over the last 2-3 years, there's been a huge shift, with more and more students concentrating on IELTS and fewer taking the TOEFL exam. And I'm pretty sure the US isn't the #1 destination for Thai high school students, whereas it assuredly is for Chinese/Indian.

The tests are quite different....as someone noted, particularly the American cultural and sports references/phrases/idioms, etc. Plus, you have to make a choice between listening to British English and American style English in your test prep.

One would think of the students that are taking the TOEFL, many of them are very serious about studying specifically in America. From reading those tables, the Thai scores aren't miserable and are actually pretty much in the middle of ASEAN countries.

Sorry but I just don't believe the numbers quoted:

- Thai students - 450 - believable.

- Singapore students - 550 - not believable because teachers actually teach 99%

of all classes in English in singapore, students totally immersed in English from

day 1 at Kindergarten. The averageTOEFL score for Singapore students must be

a lot higher than 550 / the gap cannot be just 100, impossible.

Totally agree with your comment. This doesn't add up.

Well apart from the fact that TOEFL is scored out of 100 this report certainly confirms the skeptics worst fears:

AsianScientist (Apr. 28, 2011) – A report by the Educational Testing Services (ETS)summarizing the performance of examinees who took the TOEFL test between the period of Jan-Dec 2010 has the Netherlands topping the list with an average score of 100, followed by Denmark with 99 and Singapore with 98, tied with Austria.

Amongst 163 countries, India ranked 19th, followed by the Philippines at 35th. South Korea ranked 80th and North Korea ranked 96th. Next was China at 105th, Thailand at 116th and Japan at 135th. The lowest scorers in Asia came from Cambodia.

http://www.asianscientist.com/academia/toefl-singapore-worldwide-english-proficiency-top-asia/

Japan so low? That's a bit of a shocker.

Sorry but I just don't believe the numbers quoted:

- Thai students - 450 - believable.

- Singapore students - 550 - not believable because teachers actually teach 99%

of all classes in English in singapore, students totally immersed in English from

day 1 at Kindergarten. The averageTOEFL score for Singapore students must be

a lot higher than 550 / the gap cannot be just 100, impossible.

Exactly what I thought while reading the report ...

Native English speakers don't always score that highly on TOEFL - it is geared towards American English and the use of a lot of American expressions. The purpose of TOEFL is to test the English ability in order to study in America, as is IELTS for the UK & Aus. TOEIC (Test Of English In Commerce) would be a better gauge of adult English ability for non-native speakers.

This is true in South Korea. Almost all of the students and young adults there take TOEIC, as it's a much easier test and it's also used for job placement/applications/promotions...as an assessment for English ability, rightly or wrongly.

Heh John L, a prop forward has too! This country will never change until it's too late and they find that they are left a mile behind, and from most of the native English speaking teachers I know they get little or no respect except in the big expensive International schools, they get aggro with visas so why do they bother? Mind you, the thought of Thai kids speaking with broad northern accents did leave a smile on my face.

The best answer is for the government to support or subsidize (will never happen) the private language and training centers as well as universities (particularly students in their freshman and sophomore years who might be able to transfer or are looking for study abroad opportunities).

Unless the quality and salaries for language training/ESL schools are raised by at least 50% (let's say from $1000 to $1500-2000 range or more), then nothing will happen.

Creating a government program in Thailand...that will never work, and will be corrupted before it even gets off the ground.

And the language schools will argue there's not enough demand/student numbers to justify the higher salaries for foreign teachers (that are more highly qualified).

Many language schools simply hire attractive or interesting backpackers in their 20's and 30's, and those teachers might be popular with the students and have well-attended classes, but that's not the same thing as hiring highly experienced and qualified IELTS and TOEFL teachers.

If Thai universities are barely able to pay over $1000 per month, the English education provided in that system won't increase dramatically, either. The system works now because Thailand is an exotic and desirable enough location that language schools can thrive on low cost/lower quality labor...and the students/parents are happy enough to have exposure to native speakers without paying the huge fees that legitimate international schools pay (let's say $2500-4000 USD per month for a salary in Thailand, perhaps a bit higher in Bangkok but not by much).

Actually there is another approach - copy how language is developed in the Philippines:

- Parents teach Tagalog to infants and also teach abc etc (alphabet used for both languages)

- In kindergarten kids are deliberately immersed into spoke English and English development (all skills) is a priority until the end of Primary3 by which time 99% of the population speaks fair to advanced English. From that point other subjects are given more time but are taught, in the majority of schools (incl. govt., schools) in English.

Thailand could have adopted this appraoch 30 years ago but too stubborn.

It can of course still be adopted but wil need some hard work to get it all up and running, but it can do done if the will is there.

The Philippines, one key difference, had and still enjoys a very close relationship with the United States.

There are MANY more Philippines OFW's who communicate in English as their 2nd language.

Most (well, let's say many) highly educated Pinoys have a desire to work outside of the Phils (mostly, to earn more money), whereas the same group of Thais that go to schools like Thammasat or Chula almost always prefer to stay in country.

The Philippines is highly influenced by American culture, movies, music and t.v., to a higher degree than Thailand.

The international language of the Catholic Church (95% of the Phils still) is English, whereas many Buddhists aren't as interested in communicating about their faith in English...since the Asian religions are steeped in the languages of those areas of Asia, such as Thai, Hindi, etc.

Most Pinoys I know, even with Master's degrees or PHD's in language/linguistics, still have a terrible time with grammar and never lose their pronunciation/inflection/intonation unless they move abroad for a long period of time.

Strange, if the following is true then this article seems to be erroneous. Look at page 10.

http://www.ets.org/Media/Research/pdf/TOEFL-SUM-2010.pdf

88 Malay

88 Tagalog/Philippines (of course, there's the fact than English is a 2nd language for many there)

78 Indonesian

77 China

75 Thai

74 Burmese (65% of Myanmar speaks this language, officially language)

68 Laos

63 Khymer (Cambodia)

Concerning Singapore, Malaysia and Singapore are regrouped and it is true that in some Malay areas, Bahasa is the priority and some students are poor in english: this may explain why the Group Malaysia+ singapore drops to 550.

This was probably done intentionally, the grouping thing.

1) To make it seem that if more efforts were made in Thailand, they could be on close to even par with Malaysia or even Singapore, which is just nonsense.

2) To also embarrass local teachers/universities/high schools into feeling that the education they provide is somehow worse than Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar, when that's just WAY off the mark too. If they want to make comparisons, it should be with IELTS and comparing Thailand to similar countries such as Vietnam, the Philippines (that won't work from a language comparison standpoint, more economic development) and Indonesia, as well as Malaysia (IF the Singapore numbers are isolated from the whole sampling).

There's NO WAY in Hades Singapore and Malaysia are tied.

I think they're not even close to being in the same ballpark. And the numbers in Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia are probably skewed a bit because there are so few students from those countries actually taking the TOEFL on a yearly basis, especially Laos and Myanmar.

Most of the Myanmar students taking it are probably international school students planning to study abroad, coming from fairly wealthy backgrounds.

Whereas a lot of Thai students have the vague idea of studying abroad, in the US, England/UK, Australia, NZ, Canada (especially for Thais), but there are more students around the world choosing to take the IELTS exam than TOEFL.

For a number of reasons, IELTS is becoming more of the standard and more and more commonly is being accepted in the US in lieu of a qualifying TOEFL score.

Another reason for the low Thai scores (besides digressing into a pointed attack on the Thai education system, the lack of English used outside of the touristy areas, disdain for foreign influence coming from the government) is simply that MOST Thai students don't choose America for studies because of the ease of studying in another countries like Canada or Australia that are more aggressive in pursuing Thai students.

Whereas the US is presently consumed with swallowing up as many Chinese and Indian students as possible because of the rapidly increasing GDP and disposable incomes in the elite class...with those monies now being allocated to international schools, tutors, study abroad/student exchange programs and the hiring of placement agents, etc.

Finally, Thailand and much of Asia doesn't tend to be centered on a reading/literature culture. This is going to be hard to overcome, and it's an issue all across Asia, not just Thailand.

It seems Americans have a pretty bad taste when it comes to places for retirement. Not surprising.

Americans have limited incomes! Most baby boomers will have no private pension and the current AVERAGE social security pension is about 1200 dollars per month. The vast majority of Americans over 50 don't even have 50K USD saved. Real estate values have plummeted. Get the picture? Money is number one.

Of course, naturally, for North Americans considering retirement abroad, the first place most will look is in the Americas.

Would appear to me that it is also a question of easy accessibility.

Just fly south for a few hours and you are in different country.

And these southern countries do not create much fear (in some instances it should, (Columbia, Mexico) as americans know someone wo went to one of these countries, ans came back alive. Fewer envisage the long trip of more than 20 hours by plane, to go to a country they know little about.

Many europeans who are not that wealthy come to S-E Asia, because it is close, they know about it, and it is an easy travel. And the cost of living is less once at destination.

Definitely, I drugged and robbed in Colombia, but it was my own fault for entering a dodgy bar by myself.

Luckily, at least she didn't take my passport or driver's license, and credit cards are easy to cancel. Some people have psychotrophic drugs that are so potent used on them that they have a hard time recovering.

It seems, two years removed from Thailand, that it is becoming a bit more dangerous, although I honestly never felt in danger while I lived there. Maybe just from following/lurking at TV.com, it seems you only hear bad news or about deaths and mysterious circumstances and "suicides," which happen with seemingly 10X the frequency of other Asian countries.

I would actually argue Russia and Ukraine are more dangerous...those are two places I would never venture some places by myself, as opposed to nearly everywhere in the Americas, Eastern Europe and Asia. Haven't been in Mexico recently, but would have some grave concerns in certain areas of northern Mexico. There are many safe places as well, certainly.

Here would be my list of criteria to judge by, kind of in ranked order:

--Able to gain some stable immigration/residency status.

--Affordable cost of living, leading off with quality housing.

--Safety / lack of crime.

--Availability/affordability of good quality medical care.

--Pleasant environment in terms of weather and surroundings.

--Ability to get by speaking English.

--Availability of common Western foods and goods.

--Attractiveness-availability of companion.

--Ability to work and/or run a business and-or own land.

--Availability of international and domestic/local public transportation.

It seems that you are describing some parts of North America or Europe, EXCEPT for item two (affordable) ! This level of perfection (all elements fulfilled) shall (may) prove to be very difficult to attain in most if not all the listed countries currently topping the charts of World's best Places to Retire.

It's a bit strange that some are complaining about the prices in Spain....seems to be a total disconnect from the economy and unemployment rate (25%, roughly) with the opportunities for travel/retirement there. One would think there would be some cheap foreclosed properties available in many of the countries like Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece that have been suffering the most during the financial crisis.

Of course, you also have to consider the "feel" of living in a country in decline, versus the palpable excitement of cities like Shanghai, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taipei, Abu Dhabi/Dubai, Rio, etc.

Probably it would be best to do your own reconn and spend a month or so in Europe for a better idea. I did that once when I considered teaching in the Czech Republic, and found I didn't feel 100% comfortable there, as opposed to countries like Colombia where everyone invites you to have a beer, dance or play futbol with their family as you're walking by in the streets.

That said, I married a Russian once upon a time and love the Eastern European "look," so maybe I'll teach in Hungary in 2013 or 2014, just for a change of pace after spending most of my time in Asian countries.

Central/South America would be a lot of fun, too.

I lived in Colombia for one year, and would consider it for retirement, but probably not if I had children under 18, because of the educational system there. It's beautiful, great weather (don't need an air conditioner or a heater in winter), many things to see and do, beaches, scenery...I think the Caribbean coast, like Santa Marta and Cartagena would be a tad too hot for most, though. It's the kind of heat where you don't even want to go outside from 10 am until 3 or 4 p.m.

I lived in Thailand for two years (Eastern Seaboard/university city) and don't consider it a viable option because of the property and visa issues, but mostly because of the concern about what will happen to the stability in the country if something were to happen to a certain someone's health...

I live in China now and wouldn't want to retire here, lol.

Speaking Spanish, countries like Costa Rica, Panama and Colombia as well as Ecuador are better options than the Asian countries because of the ease of communication.

Have visited the Philippines many times (just came back from 2 weeks) and it's becoming a bit more expensive...especially with Koreans buying up lots of properties in Angeles (the Pattaya of Phils), Manila and Cebu, to name a few. The Phils definitely isn't as cheap as Thailand, although both countries can be quite expensive if you travel frequently and go to the malls for a majority of your meals.

In Asia, I would CONSIDER the SW coast of Cambodia if the political situation improves...it's a bit of an undiscovered treasure and not so touristy yet. The central coastal area of Vietnam (Hue, Da Nang and Nha Trang) is quite beautiful. But always, you're looking at cultural/language barriers with the Asian countries. Malaysia was surprisingly modern and cosmopolitan to me, at least Kuala Lumpur.

I was interested to note Bali wasn't on the list, Indonesia and Malaysia are both rising economies (along with Vietnam) and, as long as you never had to deal with the traffic of Jakarta, a city like Bandung might be ideal, as you could always fly to the resort areas within an hour or so.

Caicedonia, south of Armenia, is the prettiest, most picturesque area of Colombia (to me). For the Philippines, it would probably be Siargao, which is a surfing haven...although I also like Baguio, because of the cool and crisp weather.

Will travel to India for 3 weeks in February so that will give me some first-hand insight into China's global rival. Definitely not a country coming up on anyone's retirement list. None of the Middle Eastern countries did either, like UAE/Dubai/Abu Dhabi...despite efforts to make it a combination of Las Vegas and New York/London.

Singapore is just too expensive now, although it's great fun to visit for a week or less.

Taiwan would be another place I would at least consider. At least they like baseball there, haha.

I think it's an intimation that it's possible he didn't even pay any fine to get off....that he convinced the Thai police he could turn "state's evidence" against the bigger fish in the porn industry pond and help to bring them down too....that, despite the article raising the number of over $1 million USD in revenues or profits (no idea which), he still was just the bottom part of the food chain.

He seems to be running around with the type of attitude that he's almost untouchable and you can see him smirking on the printed page without even seeing his face.

In the original report this guy was also caught with ilegal drugs and a long expired visa! So what happened there. But most of you seem to be obssessed about his porn movies and wether the ladies were treated fairly!

So is it envy?

By some reactions on local newswebsites sombody claimed that he ring a girl involved the busts lately from gogo's that the "undercover"farang looked "David Beckham type " nice looking no beerbelly....... 1 + 1= ? (maybe?)

Your grammar and punctuation seem a bit "David Beckham". What are you babbling about ?

It's pretty funny stuff.

This guy has obviously been drinking his own Kool Aid too much, because he sounds like a faux celebrity from one of those so-called reality tv shows.

Obviously, he feels that Thailand is so lucky to be graced by his presence, and then there's the typical judgment passed on other farang tourists....“I am not a foreigner with a beer gut. I am handsome, well educated, sophisticated and I dine with the best." So everyone else is old (he forgot the age dig), fat, ugly, dumb/blue collar laborers and truckers and factory workers who are rubes who eat at McDonald's and Burger King. He probably considers Sizzler fine dining.

Wow...if you were so well-educated and sophisticated, maybe you could help solve the problems (economic) which you are preying upon instead of rationalizing your "work" there as somehow beneficial (as a whole) to the social fabric of the country. If he wasn't exploiting the women, maybe some of his intelligence could be applied to creating a program that puts the girls in opportunities to get college credit, work study, internships with legitimate businesses, etc.

This story continues here:

‘I am helping Thai tourism’, says US porn photographer Tony Poer:

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....ys-us-porn-man/

But he would do exactly the same thing were he operating in the US....it's simply that the profit margins are obviously higher in Thailand (for the time being)....to describe a girl as "pure" or "innocent" or "virginal" if she's 18 but looks 15-16, it's just marketing. Let's say they are paying the girls 10,000 baht ($300-350 USD) for a shoot, how much would the same girl make in the US or Europe? You'd have to multiply it by a factor of 10 probably. It's what has happened in Europe....Hungary and the CZ Republic were the heart of the business but costs for the models got too high (spoiled a bit) and many other studios popped up in places like Holland, Germany and even Poland.

I mean, if he wrote "these girls just go through the motions, they've never had an orgasm in their lives when filming but are just faking it, they're scared to death to get an STD but nobody will watch porn where the men wear condoms...they're probably having sex with their 3rd or 4th partner in a 24 hour period by the time they get to the "set," etc....

Well, no guy would buy a subscription to a website that actually dared to tell the truth about the process. But let's say he was a Thai pornographer who went to the US and filmed movies....would anyone bat an eye or say he was subjecting those naive American girls to terrible humiliation? I would argue that the percentage differential between the pay for a porn performer (on film) in Thailand is a lot greater than the difference between a Valley-based girl compared to a "middle class" American worker's salary.

It's all relative, of course. I would have a hard time believing that more than 5% of those girls were terribly upset to find themselves on the Internet or street vendor's cart. The reason is simply....ever since the Paris Hilton, Pamela Anderson, Kim Kardashian trend started of the "stolen" sex tape on line, being marketed to millions online is the way to potentially become a star and make something of yourself. I bet all those "one name" actresses that are famous in Thailand and with Westerners like Lulu, Thainee, Tussinee, etc., are incredibly well-off if they've saved/invested their money intelligently and found an honest financial advisor. Twenty years ago, boys would be embarassed to walk into a book store and buy a Playboy or Penthouse. Now, everything under the sun and some things you've never dreamed of are out there on the Net (especially those twisted Japanese, who seem to have corned the economic market in only one area the last two decades) and it can accessed anonymously.

Those 3 "actresses" I name, their porn appearances actually enhanced their worldwide profiles. Now there's always a counterexample like Dana Plato, Elizabeth Berkeley or Chloe Sevigny who pretty much destroyed their careers by going hardcore (so to speak), but that's the exception to the rule. Think of it. There was a time that anyone would be ashamed to date a porn star. Now, everyone from Tiger Woods and Alex Rodriguez to Eliot Spitzer and everyone in between sees no stigma at all in doing so.

As noted, the only objections would be losing money from their b/f's or sponsors when they found out their honey was starring in porns, but I can't believe more than 1-2% of those guys would be too surprised....

Actually, I am dating a 1/8th Chinese (I would say she's definitely not fair-skinned, but not dark either) doctor/ER resident who attended Chula.

But when I am with her in Thailand, I hate the way some people assume she's a bargirl just because she's with a foreigner. Yes, I could stop all of those who give a wayward look (no, I'm not 20+ years older than her, lol) and say she's a doctor and makes more than you at her private hospital...but what's the point?

It's not about being insecure. I just don't like to see people treat her that way for being with a foreigner...and no, we don't live in Pattaya or BKK, we live in the heart of Chonburi.

I don't have the energy to fight against all of Asia.

Yes, I could date an exotic dark-skinned girl, but if you were to live long-term in Thailand, you get a lot more respect if you are with an educated, fair-skinned girl.

Now of course, that's not fair. It's not the way it should be it. I guess it is what it is.

Also nice to see you cow tail into line of what others expect and respect.....you seem to have no self respect.

I have lived here long term and have a rather nice golden skinned wife.

I came from a white skinned country.....that prefered suntanned skin.....I find someone that supposedly might come from an educated western background to think like you seem to do is shallow and perhaps insecure enough to need to date girls that others think are ok.

I don't have the energy to fight against all of Asia.

Yes, I could date an exotic dark-skinned girl, but if you were to live long-term in Thailand, you get a lot more respect if you are with an educated, fair-skinned girl.

Now of course, that's not fair. It's not the way it should be it. I guess it is what it is.

I also think it's a lot more challenging and interesting to date a girl with "white" skin....it seems to be a lot more respected in Thai society, rather than being with an Isaan/province girl.

Nice how you find it better to fall in line with the Thai bigots.

Did you enjoy your time living with those girls? From my experience, that situation always sounds better in print (having married a model, it sounds great, in theory, right?) than the reality or actuality of the situation.

It's really a bit like babysitting, unless the girls are mature enough to take care of themselves.

In the end, from two years living in Thailand, I found it's 100X more fun to meet women who are well educated, independent, trustworthy, ambitious (for their own careers and futures, not just to be taken care of or have the "easy life" at home doing nothing but watching tv, shopping or travelling)....have their own car, etc. Hard to find those girls in most places outside of BKK, where a lot of great girls work for multi-nationals and have far better salaries than I made. I also think it's a lot more challenging and interesting to date a girl with "white" skin....it seems to be a lot more respected in Thai society, rather than being with an Isaan/province girl.

I didn't start out with the idea of living with 6 bar-girls.

I had one. I complained to her that the house she wanted and we moved into was too expensive. It had three bedrooms and there were only two of us. The next week one arrived. The week after that two. And then two more. They shared the rent. They were nice women. Clean, well mannered and took care of the house. Four of them worked at the same club. They wore different color outfits every day. I could tell what day it was by looking at the laundry drying on the line.

It was like having a small village of go go dancers. There were roses and big teddy bears all over the place new every day. I Have never had so many roses and teddy bears in my life. I know which clubs test the ladies monthly and which check them weekly. I know which clubs have women working there with HIV. The ladies talk a lot. I know where they go after work and what they do with their money.

They would introduce me to their boyfriends as father. I would speak Thai to the guys and they would look at me a bit funny. Some of the Falang BF's would bring me cigarettes and whiskey.

I have met a couple of other men who have done the same thing. Do I think I know more about bar girls than anyone else in Thailand. More than most probably. How many men have you met who lived with 6 bar-girls? Not as a customer or sponsor or boss. I was like an older brother to them. I bailed them out of jail. I took them to the hospital when their Thai boyfriends beat them up. I made sure they didn't do drugs. I made sure they had enough to eat and got their rest. I babysat their kids when they visited. I didn't have sex with them. If you lived with six women who had no secrets from you, you wouldn't have sex with them either. At one time or another 4 out of the 6 asked me if I knew anyone who made porn movies. I didn't, so none of them did any porn. But men would take pictures of them all the time. They charged more the bigger the camera. They charged the men to take photos and this happened at least once a month. It is not uncommon at all. To go from photos to videos is not a big leap.

Wow from this and many of your other posts seems like you've led an interesting life there Mark45Y, to say the least. Ever think of writing a book about it? I'd buy a copy.........

I worked a lot for the past three years. Sometimes seven days a week sometimes 14 hours a day. Three months ago I quit my job. Bought a new computer, new operating system, new word processor, told the GF to go home. I am now alone and writing. I try to write a couple of thousand words a day. Most of the time I think my writing sucks. I get a few pages a month that I like. I keep trying.