MoonShadow

Hahaha bank run! GSB deserves it! You're lending money to a corrupt government and you'll probably never get repaid.

I commented several weeks ago that the first bank to agree to extend loans to help this rabble to pay their debts to the rice farmers would see a run on its assets. I think its a good thing, because it will send a clear message to all of the commercial banks not to get involved.

GSB has no option, because they are essentially still under the control of this 'caretaker' puppet government, but that's not going to stop their customers from bringing the bank to its knees. And I disagree with those who argue that this could have a major knock-on effect on other banks; those banks that refuse to be involved in such lunacy will remain unaffected.

I just wonder what it will take for them decide to drop this ridiculous scheme...!!?? Of course, they have to argue that it must keep going, ostensibly because its for the good of the farmers (yeah, right) but actually because once they drop it, the auditors will move in and discover the real damage that they have caused to the economy.

Indeed, given the apparent run on GSB, it would seem that when Thaksin is finally finished with this country, and the last remnants of the Shin clan have left Thai politics altogether, there will be no sector of the economy that will have remained untouched by their ineptitude.

Firstly you need to understand banking. Cash withdrawals are against deposits which are "liabilities" on a Bank's balance sheet not Assets. Banks' assets, apart from physical assets such as Buildings etc, are predominently loans....loans, and investment of any surplus funds, are what makes banks money and proits (always assuming the margins are priced for the risk and repaid!).

However I agree with the sentiment of your post

If only they'd just kept quiet . . . now that run is starting . . .

Exactly. When a bank says don't panic, it's time to get your money out. I took all my savings out of the Krung Thai bank yesterday and many other people were doing the same.

You have just become part of the problem........Duh!!

I've never had my luggage checked or x-rayed when I walk into an airport, to check in. The process starts just after they are weighed, and become the responsibility of the airport. They go up the small belt first, which is where this happened. Pls read with your eyes, and comprehend, and not make unruly comments about what you think, without understanding what is clearly presented.

Actually many airports x-ray screen luggage entering airport concourses before you even reach the check-in; Manilla for one, Don Muang used to as did Swampy at Bangkok Airways check-in....I think Surat Thani does as well......

I think a lot of folk posting on this topic have never bothered to read Mao Tse Tung's little red book or Ho Chi Minh's book on guerilla warfare....strange both of these folk had Red Shirts and/or stars, same as a lot of the folk who were 'pardoned' by the Thai government after years in the jungle, and who are now spokespeople for another "organisation".....learn from history or you will be condemned to repeat it!!

I think a lot of folk posting on this topic have never bothered to read Mao Tse Tung's little red book or Ho Chi Minh's book on guerilla warfare....strange both of these folk had Red Shirts and/or stars, same as a lot of the folk who were 'pardoned' by the Thai government after years in the jungle, and who are now spokespeople for another "organisation".....learn from history or you will be condemned to repeat it!!

Meanwhile redshirt terrorists threatened to burn Bangkok to the ground (but only succeeded in torching 59 buildings), fired rockets at the BTS, and much more, inspired by a leader who was behind thousands of extra-judicial killings not to mention the Krue-Se and Tak Bai massacres.

How many red-shirts died during that time when military was lead by Suthep and Abhishit. Around 100 red-shirts. Live bullets were used.

Red-shirts were however more violent but when your people start to die by fire do u think that torching buildings in that kind of situation is somehow justified? Althought I dont remember which one started first. Killing people by army or torching.

From what I recall it was the reds firing grenades indiscriminately at people, dragging soldiers from cars/trucks before viciously assaulting them, storming hospitals that came first.

So by the time you arrived in Bangkok you had missed 17 coups, countless overthrows of democracy and the PAD seige which was the same as Now. Some Elites fascists send the protesters out with the army there to protect them

Also, by the time the redshirts got ugly, the Army had already made a full out armed assult with tracked vehicles guns etc. at Pan Fah Bridge. From day one it was attacked and they allowed a mob to form every night near the skytrain and throw missiles at them. Hence the baricades.

The reds were never allowed to protest, and because they are the victims of so much injustice there are even websited dedicated to it.

BTW, latest pics in are of a gargage collecter almost beaten to death by the PDRC guards. looking at the pic, they must have hit him more than 100 times with sticks etc. His entire body is coverd. Lets hope one day these thugs are taken off the streets for a long time and maybe sent to guard your condo block. See how you like them.

Are you for real?????

Let's see how long it lasts...

Not in Samui, Tesco/Big C subject to ill informed panic buying by last w/e......

This is absolutely silly - and will certainly be to the detriment of the Thai yachting business. Indeed: 2 steps forwards, but 3 steps back . . . . .

Hopefully these "authorities" will come to their senses in time ! ! !

No problem, my boat is Thai registered....

About time someone or some group made a stand ...

PTP is willing to lose (steal / vote buy) untold billions

Hope the rice scam finally crashes and burns ...

Hey Yingluck ... Now boarding flight ... destination Dubai

Really, think of the farmers who have been waiting for months. They are not as rich as the elite and need this money. People should stop thinking about Yingluck and think about the People of Thailand first.

Yes it has failed and yes it should not be aloud to continue. But they should pay up the money to the farmers.

How, and with what???? Pray tell just where will this money materialise from???

put a tax on tourists entering the country. stop the diesel subsidy there is lots of ways to get the money

Yes but don't use the deposits of the farmers to fund it; wasn't that what this tread was all about......not running the capital of the bank down so it has to be bailed out which is what PTP seem to be advocating.

About time someone or some group made a stand ...

PTP is willing to lose (steal / vote buy) untold billions

Hope the rice scam finally crashes and burns ...

Hey Yingluck ... Now boarding flight ... destination Dubai

Really, think of the farmers who have been waiting for months. They are not as rich as the elite and need this money. People should stop thinking about Yingluck and think about the People of Thailand first.

Yes it has failed and yes it should not be aloud to continue. But they should pay up the money to the farmers.

How, and with what???? Pray tell just where will this money materialise from???

Germany started building a good highway system as early as the late 1930's. The USA didn't start building an interstate system until the early 50's.

Thailand has had plenty of time to observe and realizes the cost for a safer and more efficient system is far to expensive. Dividing corruption costs with infrastructure expense outlays is likely far too much for most countries and especially Thailand.

Thailand will need to wait many more years for a safer and overall better road system.

I don't think Hitler had road safety on his list of objectives when the Autobahns were built.....it was the best way of moving the Wehrmacht from one side to the other and quickly.....also employed a lot of people!!

I just bought a new Kindle Paperwhite with built in light and have been highly satisfied with it. It was pre-ordered and released on 15 Nov, shipped that day, and received at my house on the 19th. All customs and shipping were paid by Amazon (included in the order). It was automatically registered to me and it even downloaded the books I had on my Kindle for PC account with Amazon. Total order at today's exchange rate is 8,500 baht.

I checked the prices here and you really don't save that much. Have read that they have the units but not in stock so you might have to wait if ordered here in Thailand.

Why don'y you get it shipped to Saudi or are the duties high there too......

This is all wrong trust me. They have had my passport and 60k bail now for 6 months. The police is the one holding it all. You are getting wrong information somewhere. Here is how it works:

1) The Plaintiff files a complaint with the police

2) The police do an investigation on your history etc. to see if you have any similar charges etc.

3) If they feel the case should go to court, the police present the case to the prosicutor

4) The prosecutor reads it and decides if it should go to court or not.

5) The prosecutor makes his decission then sends it to the Board of Prosecutors along with his advice

6) If the board agrees with the main prosecutor that it should be dismised then they dismiss the case and do not allow it into court.

7) The prosecutor then makes a letter saying all charges are dropped and sends it to City Hall to be signed.

8) They order the police to give back your bail and passport (if it was taken)

Now the only way they can take your passport is if you were given a "Promise to appear" at the police station and you did not show up. Then they would arrest you, bail and keep your passport.

It is a very long drawn out process here so better if you can just pay 10,000 baht to the police and/or Plaintiff and have it dropped now. In my case the Plaintiff wanted 100,000 baht so I said NO WAY.

My case never even made it to court and the prosecutor had dropped all charges 2 months ago but then the Plaintif (in my case a foreigner) appealed it and they get only 1 appeal so now I'm hoping I get everything back on Dec. 4th.

This has been going on for almost 3 years now but this last time I was re-arrested as the foreigner re-charged me and I was arrested in June so this last time has been 6 months and has cost me a total of 6,000,000 baht in lost wages, lawyers, bail etc.

PS: This all started in 2011 with a "defamation" charge when I replied to a rude German man trying to talk my down when I had a comuter for sale in the internet. I swore at him and told him to $%^& off and he has been trying to ruin my life ever since. Emails are private and a defamation charge is a public defame so even though I am not wrong, the legal system in Thailand is NOT a good one so PAY NOW if you can and move ahead

Sorry Gone, but i do not buy it even a tiny bit.

No police or courts would accept a case of libel or defamation because of an email, unless you somehow made that email public through facebook or something like that.

You are wrong.....its happened here several times.

Happy to accept, please show cases where people were sued for defamation which took place via private email

Happy to, but only after those involved agree to releasing the information. I also suffered as a result of a personal e-mail to someone outside of Thailand, being copied and faxed to the individual concerned who sued me for defamation....money talks here......

This is all wrong trust me. They have had my passport and 60k bail now for 6 months. The police is the one holding it all. You are getting wrong information somewhere. Here is how it works:

1) The Plaintiff files a complaint with the police

2) The police do an investigation on your history etc. to see if you have any similar charges etc.

3) If they feel the case should go to court, the police present the case to the prosicutor

4) The prosecutor reads it and decides if it should go to court or not.

5) The prosecutor makes his decission then sends it to the Board of Prosecutors along with his advice

6) If the board agrees with the main prosecutor that it should be dismised then they dismiss the case and do not allow it into court.

7) The prosecutor then makes a letter saying all charges are dropped and sends it to City Hall to be signed.

8) They order the police to give back your bail and passport (if it was taken)

Now the only way they can take your passport is if you were given a "Promise to appear" at the police station and you did not show up. Then they would arrest you, bail and keep your passport.

It is a very long drawn out process here so better if you can just pay 10,000 baht to the police and/or Plaintiff and have it dropped now. In my case the Plaintiff wanted 100,000 baht so I said NO WAY.

My case never even made it to court and the prosecutor had dropped all charges 2 months ago but then the Plaintif (in my case a foreigner) appealed it and they get only 1 appeal so now I'm hoping I get everything back on Dec. 4th.

This has been going on for almost 3 years now but this last time I was re-arrested as the foreigner re-charged me and I was arrested in June so this last time has been 6 months and has cost me a total of 6,000,000 baht in lost wages, lawyers, bail etc.

PS: This all started in 2011 with a "defamation" charge when I replied to a rude German man trying to talk my down when I had a comuter for sale in the internet. I swore at him and told him to $%^& off and he has been trying to ruin my life ever since. Emails are private and a defamation charge is a public defame so even though I am not wrong, the legal system in Thailand is NOT a good one so PAY NOW if you can and move ahead

Sorry Gone, but i do not buy it even a tiny bit.

No police or courts would accept a case of libel or defamation because of an email, unless you somehow made that email public through facebook or something like that.

You are wrong.....its happened here several times.

Gone is correct about the process; if he has gone directly to the court then its a Civil case as only the Public Prosecutor can bring Criminal charges and part of the process is that the Public Prosecutor must also interview you.....

This is all wrong trust me. They have had my passport and 60k bail now for 6 months. The police is the one holding it all. You are getting wrong information somewhere. Here is how it works:

1) The Plaintiff files a complaint with the police

2) The police do an investigation on your history etc. to see if you have any similar charges etc.

3) If they feel the case should go to court, the police present the case to the prosicutor

4) The prosecutor reads it and decides if it should go to court or not.

5) The prosecutor makes his decission then sends it to the Board of Prosecutors along with his advice

6) If the board agrees with the main prosecutor that it should be dismised then they dismiss the case and do not allow it into court.

7) The prosecutor then makes a letter saying all charges are dropped and sends it to City Hall to be signed.

8) They order the police to give back your bail and passport (if it was taken)

Now the only way they can take your passport is if you were given a "Promise to appear" at the police station and you did not show up. Then they would arrest you, bail and keep your passport.

It is a very long drawn out process here so better if you can just pay 10,000 baht to the police and/or Plaintiff and have it dropped now. In my case the Plaintiff wanted 100,000 baht so I said NO WAY.

My case never even made it to court and the prosecutor had dropped all charges 2 months ago but then the Plaintif (in my case a foreigner) appealed it and they get only 1 appeal so now I'm hoping I get everything back on Dec. 4th.

This has been going on for almost 3 years now but this last time I was re-arrested as the foreigner re-charged me and I was arrested in June so this last time has been 6 months and has cost me a total of 6,000,000 baht in lost wages, lawyers, bail etc.

PS: This all started in 2011 with a "defamation" charge when I replied to a rude German man trying to talk my down when I had a comuter for sale in the internet. I swore at him and told him to $%^& off and he has been trying to ruin my life ever since. Emails are private and a defamation charge is a public defame so even though I am not wrong, the legal system in Thailand is NOT a good one so PAY NOW if you can and move ahead

Sorry Gone, but i do not buy it even a tiny bit.

No police or courts would accept a case of libel or defamation because of an email, unless you somehow made that email public through facebook or something like that.

You are wrong.....its happened here several times.

Think about this for a minute: In a democratic system where the supreme court of the land determines that every attempt to change an existing constitution is unconstitutional, is there any realistic 'check and balance' between the legislative and the judiciary?

Ahh, always a problem for countries with a written constitution.....not a lot of 'wriggle" room is there.....

If you look at this topic here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/681051-passport-as-a-deposit-for-a-motorcycle/

You will find recommendations to different bike rental places that do not require over the top security, some with larger bikes.

Also a comprehensive discussion about passports , all covered in the provided link.

It is illegal to hold a passport as security; but often done here. Also I assume you have a valid license to ride bikes of this size from your country, if not any insurance you have is invalidated if you have an accident, and yes that means your travel insurance!!

Depending upon the amount of the debt you should have no problems at all getting back into the country. This is not a criminal matter but a problem between you and the bank and your credit rating here in Thai (rather their form of it). Unless the bank itself has put a hold on your name and has listed you as someone of interest... which will not be the case (again depending upon the amount of the debt) Immigration will not know or even care.

This is just my opinion and one that is based upon knowing someone who was in much the same position as you are in. She owed around 60K and came and went at will across the border (land and plane). Actually I do not think that she ever took care of it... which was wrong.

So I do not think you have anything to worry about when entering. Though I would strongly suggest that the first thing you do is pay the debt off in full upon arrival and show that you are responsible. I know how difficult it is to try and get things paid for here while out of the country. I had the same issue with HSBC (UK) while living in here. To this day I have never been able to understand that one at all!

I wouldn't be too sure about there being a solid line between criminal and civil crime/law in Thailand. In Singapore the two overlap quite a long way, and the way the system works in Thailand, it could easily be a letter from the bank to the Immigration Dept, and next thing is you're in cuffs at the airport.

It's certainly the case here in Australia that police aren't interested in debt you run up, unless by fraudulent/illegal activity, but third world/developing countries have curious ways of doing things, even though Singapore could never be termed a 'developing country'.

There is a very clear line between the two; check out "The Thai Criminal Code" Criminal charges will result in your not being able to leave Thailand without authorisation from a Judge whilst the case is pending.....Civil charges have no such sanctions. Oh I forgot a caveat to the Criminal charges would be "unless you are related to the Red Bull Empire!"

Depending upon the amount of the debt you should have no problems at all getting back into the country. This is not a criminal matter but a problem between you and the bank and your credit rating here in Thai (rather their form of it). Unless the bank itself has put a hold on your name and has listed you as someone of interest... which will not be the case (again depending upon the amount of the debt) Immigration will not know or even care.

This is just my opinion and one that is based upon knowing someone who was in much the same position as you are in. She owed around 60K and came and went at will across the border (land and plane). Actually I do not think that she ever took care of it... which was wrong.

So I do not think you have anything to worry about when entering. Though I would strongly suggest that the first thing you do is pay the debt off in full upon arrival and show that you are responsible. I know how difficult it is to try and get things paid for here while out of the country. I had the same issue with HSBC (UK) while living in here. To this day I have never been able to understand that one at all!

You are correct; this kind of debt, even if pursued through the courts (very unlikely) is a civil offense, not criminal so the Police and or immigration are not interested or involved. Unsecured interest rates are always high because of this kind of default leads to a loss via write-offs at the bank. As someone posted earlier, a number of similar cases will inevitably lead to the bank making a decision as to whether or not they want this kind of business.....QED no unsecured credit lines for ex-pats!! For some reason, most of the TV posters do not seem to understand the very simple concept that banking is a business and the only comodity traded, is money......if it doesn't get paid back the bank looses it.....interest rates are applied to reflect the risk of default, which is an added expense to the bank, and the potential for loss which is a loss of capital to the bank.....quite simple really.

Ok...so I'm a rebel. Are the students rebels? Are the business people rebels? Are the judges rebels? Are university professors rebels? Is anyone that disagrees with your party a rebel?

I have a question for you Mr. Interior Minister. Are you really so stupid?

Ah, but they are Rebels with a Cause. They are either campaigning against the government or they are campaigning against Thaksin or they are campaigning against the ICJ decision (whatever it may be).

Suthep and the dem party who are backing him is campaigning against the amnesty bill. Then he put an unrealistic time limit on the deliberation of the bill, saying he will carry on the protest if it is not "done and dusted" by 6pm. He also announced a "Peoples Court" that is supposed to be making judgement today. He is doing everything he can to coincide "his", read dem party, demands to coincide with the ICJ Verdict being read and the other demonstration sites and hoping for it all to go off.

Which is what the government were saying would be an unreasonable escalation of the protest which doesn't sound stupid at all. It sounds like a fair reading of what the dems are trying to do,spark confrontation by stoking hate.

I think your stroking it, hate I mean and causing panic with your conspiracy theories. Sure the government bite off more than it can chew with the amnesty bill and protestors are in the street, but there hasn't been any violence, no interference with the running of the government, no blocking of trade, except for the SOE restrictions. What is this government panicking about?

In case you missed it its called "Significant Loss Of Face!...."

"Anti-amnesty groups step up rallies in a bid to topple PM"

Can't legally and legitimately so we'll just have another coup, Don't care about the will of the majority of the people, we just want all the power and don't care how we take it, then cry that the other side are the evil ones and it's the red's, PTP, Thaksin, Yingluck, and Santa clause are to blame.

What a steaming pile of buffalo sh_t...

Mob rule trying to overthrow an elected government. Both sides are as bad as ech other.

Errm, wasn't that what the "anti-poll tax" mobs were doing in the UK a few years back????

One has to assume that the ATM machine in Kiev, or wherever, needs to perform a communication to 'Visa Central' or somewhere distant, to determine that there are funds available and a valid PIN has been entered.

Surely a transaction 20 minutes earlier, some 10,000 km (or less) distant, should raise a flag and block the secondary withdrawal attempt.

Or is the system so dumb as to not treat such occurrences as odd, or it doesn't even bother checking anything.

( I know for a fact they seem quick to block withdrawals if you make too many in a day or there are insufficient funds..... is it a case of the banks protecting themselves more than the customers?)

I should be able to supply my bank with a yes/no list of countries where I may or may not use my ATM card.

No, I doubt if I will be going to Afghanistan or Pakistan any-time soon!

Most Western/international banks use "out of patten'" behavioural systems which monitor your usual patten of spending/cash withdrawals etc and then 'flag' anything out of the ordinary. If you travel a lot it can be a nuisence otherwise good practice as it involves the bank calling you to verify the transaction before confirming it.

You are correct, most Thais do not understand that a Government has NO MONEY; it can only spend what it raises in taxes OR borrows......QED most Thai's do not pay tax that they can see....VAT is nominal to them if they shop at markets and drink Lao Kao.....so no big deal. What is happening here is the Government saying to the Finance Ministry, " you have to find the money...." Guess what, its like a Bank having a lot of defaulting loans asking the markets for Capital.......the price just goes up!!

S & P and Moody's will soon lower the Soverign debt rating for Thailand and the cost of borrowing will go only one way.....who pays for this.....not the farmers in Isaan or the Mom and Pop stores or the noodle sellers or street traders, but the businesses and people who pay business or personal In come Tax......why should they pay for something which doesn't benefit them......"seconds out - round Two"......

Good point Moon Shadow, this current Thai administration is spending more that it raises, 20% of the annual budget is funded by debt. This debt is on the books, the rice scam, 1997 debt, onion scam, rubber scam and the proposed 2.2 trillion debt are all off the books. Eventually all these debts have to be paid or at least maintained, that means every Thai and ex-pat can expect increased taxes, fees, levies and rampant inflation, that is the cost of living in Thailand will increase and the quality of life will decrease. Anyone who doesnt accept the fundamental truth of this is living in LaLa land.

Is it only me, or do others feel VAT going to 10% in the very near future?

The official rate has been 10% for some years but temporarilly lowered to 7%.....easy to take that off and use the publisised and official rate.....

Sorry that should read 'Published' and the link I forget to add is :- https://tax.thomsonreuters.com/blog/onesource/vat-gst-management/thailand-maintains-7-vat-rate-until-2014/