Gwindarr

I'm in +1

I don't know, why people getting that mad here..,

40.000 liters are seriously not that much. Of course, its not good, but i believe, there are getting more drain water, chemicals & other very bad fluids into the sea by hotels & factory's.

Just the media will blow this story up and will hit the tourism in that region. I have a 80.000 liter swimmingpool and thats not a to big amount on water.

I'd suggest, don't fight here for nothing & be polite...

So if somebody dumped say 1/2 a liter of crude oil into your pool, would you be ok swimming in it?

The site where you can exchange voice recordings is rhinospike.com. While I've had good results with a few languages, the only Thai recordings I have gotten so far were pretty awful. Until that site has more people, I would just get someone to record it for you. Then the biggest challenge is getting a Thai person to say them naturally.

David is absolutely right about learning sentences as opposed to words. Don't waste time and energy. Stand-alone words are much harder to remember out of context and are of little use while you are still thinking in your native language.

Gwindarr

Ive been taking private lessons from Brett to learn reading and writing. Worth every baht! If you want to learn to read in 2 weeks look nowhere else. Learn Thai from a White Guy

If you looking for ED visa and long-term studies I have heard only good about Payap.

just my 2 cents.

Thanks Ozzie. These days it takes 4-6 contact hours to cover the alphabet and all the class rules. Mastering them takes a bit longer, but it shouldn't be an issue as long as you review the flashcards I give you a few minutes everyday.

I do lessons in person and online.

I believe there are cheaper ED visa options than Payap. CMU charges 30k, Walen charges 25k. And there are always rumors of a guy who knows a guy who can get you one for considerably less. I'm still trying to confirm that last one.

I'm at a point in my Thai where I can read just about anything. Slowly, but my tutor says my tones and pronunciation are spot on so that's encouraging. The only problem is I don't understand what I'm reading 90% of the time. I've been reading 1st or 2nd grade books, looking up words I don't know, and then reading them again for comprehension. I feel like I've hit a wall with my vocabulary though. Do language instructors recommend memorizing vast amounts of vocabulary or should I just keep reading elementary books and let the vocab come with it? I'm just curious how others have approached their own studies I guess. I'm not much of an academic so I don't know what the 'proper' way to study a language is. Thanks!

You've gotten a few good responses already, but allow me to throw in a few more ideas.

First, get away from the elementary stuff asap. Those things are boring, don't usually reflect actual speech/writing and are filled with words that you probably don't care about.

There are better ways to go about reading. Google for strategies/methods for reading foreign languages. There is loads of stuff out there that can steer you in a better direction.

The basic rule is that you shouldn't be spending too much time looking up words. Just keep reading. If you don't know what it is - skip it. You don't need to be consciously aware of progress or know what all of the words mean, you just need to keep reading. Words that appear often will start jumping out at you and your brain will do most of the work behind the scenes.

I would recommend you check out เด็กไม่เอาถ่าน which is the Thai translation of Diary of a Wimpy Kid. A while ago, I typed up an excerpt on my blog. I could post it here if anyone wanted to see it.

The book is great. It uses lots of real language, it's funny, has pictures and it is from a Western point-of-view so you can probably figure out what is going even if much of the language is still above you.

its very common here to add a quick "go" before dai ได้. I asked my husband years ago why they do and he said it just sounds better, that it didn't add or change the meaning. Is this a Southernism?

ก็ได้ is great! You can use it in loads of different situations. It is often used to show a mild indifference to something. It isn't really like English where if you respond with "whatever" it usually implies you don't care. ก็ได้ is often like "I don't have preference" or "I'll let you decide."

Q: กิน pizza มั้ย = Wanna get some pizza?

A: กิน (pizza) ก็ได้ = I could eat pizza.

Q: ดูหนังมั้ย = Wanna see a movie?

A: ดูหนังก็ได้ = I could watch a movie.

And slightly different, but equally useful...

Q: อยากกินอะไร = What do ya wanna eat?

A: กินอะไรก็ได้ = I can eat whatever.

Q: แล้วดูเรื่องอะไรอะ = Well, which movie should we see?

A: ดูเรื่องอะไรก็ไ้ด้ = I can watch anything. (or 'You choose')

Ok.. my Thai is an intermediate level I guess (according to Chula), I can read and write on MSN with my Thai friends very easily, and I can speak well too. But... when I listen to a commercial, Thai movie, or someone talks at me full speed... I feel like an idiot a good percentage of the time. I don't know if it's that my vocabulary just still isn't good enough, or what to do to improve my listening. I should say, it isn't total crap... I maybe understand 50% of what is going on, maybe... more or less... but, with something like a Thai soap opera... I don't understand hardly anything... they talk so fast and so crazy... it does me no good to even watch it.

People always say just watch a lot of Thai TV or whatever... but honestly, my brain turns off after 5 minutes of Thai TV because I start trying WAY too hard and I just can't be bothered to listen anymore, and my mind turns off. LoL Is there an easier way? I know I need to speak more Thai with my friends... some of my friends only speak Thai, but many of them still speak English to me, especially in public (of course they want to impress people, I know).

I need something around intermediate level listening.. what might that be?

Audacity is great! Aside from what was mentioned above, what you can do is take a podcast or an audio rip from a movie or youtube video or what not and use audacity to cut it into chunks. So I might take a short story in some language that has loads of words I don't know and cut it into 30sec -1 min pieces and just loop it. I'll occasionally look at the text and possibly look up words now and then until I'm solid with it then I'll go through the other pieces and eventually the entire thing. I know that if I listen to something a few hundred times it will be mine. Obviously, it helps if you can find stuff that you actually want to listen to in the first place.

Alright, so this may sound kinda silly, but it really isn't.

The only way to get better at listening, is by listening. And the best way to make sure that happens (that you listen..) is by finding stuff that is interesting for you. It works better if its less a matter of discipline and more a matter of doing stuff you do already. Partially comprehensible stuff is preferred. While it is possible to take a body of text and audio that you don't understand at all and learn it all, it takes a really long time so if you can find stuff where you already understand the main idea, then you can just focus on the stuff you don't know.

Get a clip (cut up a soap, news clip, or whatever) and listen to it until you can't take it anymore. Then put it away for a while and listen to something else. Cut up the files into pieces. Audacity is a good piece of free software that can help you with that. Its better if you have text, but its more important that you can handle listening to it a bunch of times. Watch out for people who have nice voices. Thai dubbed movies are rough because its the same handful of people all the <deleted> time.

Anyways, just listen. Master what you enjoy first and by being good at that stuff you will have an easy time when you attack stuff you don't like Don't aim for 100%. You can't compete with a native speaker without thousands and thousands of hours of listening so set smaller goals. Drop stuff if it sucks. Move on and listen to new stuff if you get bored. Just keep listening.

Whatever happens, I promise you can't get worse by listening so no time spent will be wasted. A huge portion of the language learning process is done behind the scenes and you aren't always going to be aware of progress. Just keep listening.

The hard part is finding good material.

Ok.. my Thai is an intermediate level I guess (according to Chula), I can read and write on MSN with my Thai friends very easily, and I can speak well too. But... when I listen to a commercial, Thai movie, or someone talks at me full speed... I feel like an idiot a good percentage of the time. I don't know if it's that my vocabulary just still isn't good enough, or what to do to improve my listening. I should say, it isn't total crap... I maybe understand 50% of what is going on, maybe... more or less... but, with something like a Thai soap opera... I don't understand hardly anything... they talk so fast and so crazy... it does me no good to even watch it.

People always say just watch a lot of Thai TV or whatever... but honestly, my brain turns off after 5 minutes of Thai TV because I start trying WAY too hard and I just can't be bothered to listen anymore, and my mind turns off. LoL Is there an easier way? I know I need to speak more Thai with my friends... some of my friends only speak Thai, but many of them still speak English to me, especially in public (of course they want to impress people, I know).

I need something around intermediate level listening.. what might that be?

all morning whilst visiting ebay and other ( not porn ! ) sites inc TV, ive been getting this,...

Sorry, the web site you are accessing has been closed by Royal Thai Police due to inappropriate.

anyone else ?

I have been getting the same message on sites like youtube and gmail. I also can't upload any vids to youtube which is a problem. I tried another vid hosting service and get the same errors. Is anyone else having vid upload probs?

I'd value the opinions of those that have gone through the process of self-teaching Thai.

At first I tried learning the spoken word using dictionaries and online resources.

It wasn't long before I realised that there are problems with transliteration: inconsistancy between systems, and the inability to impart pronunciation regardless of tone using just the english alphabet.

So, I thought I had better learn to read Thai first......but it seems that I could learn to read it easier if I could speak it!

What's your thoughts?

There isn't any correct order. I don't think it really matter how you get there. What matters is that you do things that are enjoyable (or at least painless) to keep you on the path. I'd strongly suggest learning to read right away as it will make everything easier in the long run. And you are correct about transliteration it sucks. Get away from it asap. You could learn the alphabet in a day if you put in the time. Just get it over with so you can start looking for fun stuff to read. If you have access to a native speaker it could help a lot, but there are enough resources online that you can by without one if necessary.

You've never met a farang who could internalize tones until they could read?!?!?! You've either met a lot of tone deaf farang, or something is wrong with the way they are learning. I learned my first bit of Thai from some CDs, and when I came to Bangkok my friends all commented on how good my accent was. (I've had friends hang up on me before after I answer my phone because they thought a Thai person answered and they called the wrong number lol) Copying a native speaker when learning a foreign language is really a must if you want to have a native sounding accent.

I still get the feeling we are talking about apples and oranges though... I don't consider speaking the correct tones an "accent"... In Thai the tone is just part of the word, like spelling... but "accent" is much broader than just saying the tone. Farang who learn tones from reading them have weird sounding tones in my opinion... they need to be copied from a Thai speaker.

You've never met a farang who could internalize tones until they could read?!?!?!

None that I'm aware of.

Copying a native speaker when learning a foreign language is really a must if you want to have a native sounding accent.

Absolutely.

I don't consider speaking the correct tones an "accent"... In Thai the tone is just part of the word, like spelling... but "accent" is much broader than just saying the tone.

Me neither. I thought you were saying 'accent,' but referring to tones and or pronunciation in general.

Since that isn't the case. Can you give some examples of what you are referring to please? We might all have different ideas about what we are talking about.

I think if you look over what other people have been posting in this topic, they seem to be referring to pronunciation (of vowels and/or tones) rather than 'accent'.

I'm also wondering if we haven't somehow gotten way off topic. So let me bring it back a bit.

When I teach, I'm not by any means their primary Thai input. I just give them useful sentences and other things that they won't find in phrase books or textbooks. I also help them work up towards pronouncing things correctly which just takes practice. Your mouth needs to get used to creating the new sounds. I break up materials for them so they can read (because I remember how frustrating it is to find good stuff to read that doesn't seem overbearing) and listen to stuff thats interesting and useful. And most importantly, I can answer most of their questions about why/what people are saying (or how to say stuff) when native speakers can not answer their questions. I'm not driving, I'm just the navigator with a bit more experience than those I teach. The idea is to save them lots of time and frustration and its usually quite fun for everyone involved.

"Ok. Of course it is possible to speak "correctly" without being able to read and write. Children pull it off right for a bit right?"

What do you mean "for a bit"... I'd imagine most Thais do not get their accent from reading and writing Thai. Most of them don't even know the tones rules (heck I think I even spell better than most of my friends lol).

You don't need to know the rules. You just need some way to get them in your head until its no longer a conscious activity. In the books used in schools they learn them in groups. I can't remember if they actually refer to the groups as high/low/mid right away or not, but its not necessary. I've taught a handful of foreigners now and I've yet to encounter one who was able to correctly internalize the tones before they were solid with the alphabet and had assimilated all the rules. You could accomplish the same thing with rote and drills, but most adults aren't willing to sit through that. It would suck!

I have a friend who has been here about a year. His Thai is pretty limited, but when he wants to he can imitate things that people have said very well. But he has no idea what it means and no way to connect it to the Thai when he is actually speaking. So he could say the word correctly and he does sometimes, but not when he is talking. Only when he is copying someone else. Do you see what I'm saying?

It helps tremendously if you can associate the sounds, the words, everything with a bunch of other things. The more connections you make to things you already know, the easier everything becomes.

i would be interested in learning basics and intermediate Thai from a farang teacher that knows what they are doing. for intermediate to advanced i would use a native. i know lots of words but have trouble putting sentences together [maybe even in English : ) ] any thai teacher in pattaya/jomtien is welcome to pm me

I wish I had someone to steer me around all the silliness I came up with my own the first year or so. I thought I spoke Thai pretty well.

Until, I moved to P-lok anyways. It was there that I began to get schooled. I started noticing differences in sounds. I could read, but just barely. I went through the first grade books and I noticed that some letters sounded different.

Nobody spoke much English so when I asked questions like why หมา and มา sounded different, I got answers like "Because it is." Those answers kinda makes sense now, but at the time I didn't find it very helpful. If I had some farang around who knew all that stuff already and could have explained it to me, I would have progressed much faster.

i know lots of words but have trouble putting sentences together [maybe even in English : )

This doesn't need to be a problem. Rethink your plan of attack. Stop worrying about single words. Learn short phrases and sentences as a whole. After you have a bunch of them you can talk for real.

A pile of words are useless if you don't know how they are used. You will just mess it up because your native language(s) are always going to get in the way causing you to guess - incorrectly of course.

I think that the premise you don't learn a good accent until you can read and write is completely false... and saying that you "only" improve your accent with reading and writing is completely ridiculous. Reading and writing will never help someone distinguish between something like the frequently subtle difference between a high tone and a rising tone, for example... even a middle tone and a low tone can sound nearly identical sometimes, and this is a nuance that no farang is going to be able to teach... and certainly reading and writing isn't going to teach it.

Actually, all reading and writing is going to do, if taught too soon, is solidify a farang's tones so that they speak very rigidly.. instead of naturally.

Ok. Of course it is possible to speak "correctly" without being able to read and write. Children pull it off right for a bit right?

I'm not saying its impossible to speak Thai correctly without reading and writing. But its a lot more difficult and you miss out on so much, so why would you bother?

Then again, if you can't read and write - you are illiterate. Is this acceptable in any other situation you can think of? If a Thai person in your country spoke pretty good English, but was illiterate, how would you feel about them? While illiterate people might not be unintelligent, they will almost certainly seem so as a huge percentage of what we learn in life comes from reading.

Reading and writing will never help someone distinguish between something like the frequently subtle difference between a high tone and a rising tone, for example...

Sure it does. Especially in Thai. I thought my Thai was pretty passable until I learned to read properly ..than after a while I learned to speak properly. It all makes sense once you get over that first hill and start reading stuff. Then you can start associating those sounds with images (words) in a script with sounds completely separate from your native language. One of problems the people seem to have when learning a new language is that we tend to try to use the sounds we already have in the new language - especially if they are similar.

.. even a middle tone and a low tone can sound nearly identical sometimes, and this is a nuance that no farang is going to be able to teach... and certainly reading and writing isn't going to teach it.

I bet I could help you learn to recognize the tone differences faster than most (any?) Thai teachers. It becomes second nature, in real speech you aren't thinking about what tone every (any!) word is just like you aren't thinking in terms of grammatical terms. The more connections you make to the sound the better. I wouldn't want to rely just on aural memory for something if I didn't have to. I like to hit it from all possible angles to make sure it stays for good.

While I haven't been here quite as long as you, I long ago learned that you ALWAYS check the bill when you go out anywhere. I don't care who owns the place or what color they are or who is serving me. Just check. Sometimes it will be wrong and you just point out the mistake to the server and they will fix it. There isn't any point to getting pissed off about it. That won't ever help. Why would you rely on someone who makes 25 or 50 or whatever baht an hour to give you the correct bill when they can easily skim a lot more than that.

Also, its not just for farangs, this happens everywhere at all kinds of places to everybody. Yeah it sucks, but I don't think you can fix it so just take this information that you have pretty much already worked out on your own and just check the bill every time. With big groups of people ordering a million things you aren't likely to win, but still worth a glance to keep up the habit of checking.

If you are learning Thai, just think of it as reading practice. If you aren't and you can't read, I'm disappointed. Since its at expat pubs, I'm guessing its always in English so there isn't any reason why you shouldn't be checking. I'm somewhat well-traveled and I don't remember going through any countries where people didn't look over the bill before paying on a regular basis (though it wouldn't surprise me if this was normal in some places).

Whatever ideas you have about customer satisfaction and loyalty do not apply here. I realize its hard to accept, but thats just how it is.

To reiterate, check your bill before you pay, always.

Quick afterthought, I've noticed that when Thai people (usually women, but not always) have spent enough time with clueless farangs (who are usually paying), they may stop checking the bill and just let Mr. Whitey-pants pay. <--Try to read that sentence as playful rather than hateful. I enjoy the chaos.

Something else to consider - Whats with all the food centers in Thailand using coupons or the magic food center card?

Topps, Robinsons, Central, etc - I could explain it to you necessary, but let's save that for another post.

My last bit of wisdom to offer (heading out to drink beer and subsequently check the bill before I pay) - all the times I have been screwed over during my time here were on some level my own fault whether due to inexperience, ignorance, or failure to catch on quick enough to how things work here.

Hope this helps.

I have to say as an Expat of 7 years plus I do like going to a British style pub. Obviously not too spoilt for choice here in Bangkok, generally I go the Irish pubs.

It is usually the ones (three) that are owned by the same owners. The Robin Hood, Orielly's and Mollie Mallones. I don't want this to be a bashing thread but some answers and suggestions would be good.

Over the last year or so I have found that all three have added drinks onto the bill. At first I thought maybe I had more than I thought. But then my friends started saying the same and eventually left drinking at Orielly's as this happened every week. One time when I was in for only 45 minutes and had two beers, the bill came back with three. I told the manager (who isn't a bad fella) so off we went to the camera to check. Yes I was right. Yes a sorry of him and a scowl from the staff. In fact I went in one more time but the staff were so rude as I had caught them out. I haven't been back since and neither have my friends which constitutes to a good few.

So over the last 10 months this has happened in the Robin Hood (More than twice) and now Mollie Mallones. What do people think? Is it a managemnet tactic too get the staff to add a few on, especially if there are a few of you and you generally pay anyway? Are the staff on the fiddle without the manager knowing? Is it just pure incompetance and stupidity that they can't count?

These places are western managed and you guys (I know you are on these forums) should get your houses in Order. I actually like the three places as they have character or maybe there are Characters in them. But ripping your local customers is wrong.

So has anyone else noticed this? After nearly a year of wrong bills it has too be more than coincidence!

I suggest that these places should change their policies and every time you get a round of drinks the bill comes in a small container, Thai style. Or even pay after every round. Get your cameras updated as you can hardly see an image. If it wasn't for the fact that I was wearing a long sleeve shirt I would have been mistaken for someone else.

Anyone else?

I'd give it a shot. I've been teaching Thai for about 2 years now and Japanese for about 3 months. Its certainly more interesting than teaching English and it tends to pay better.

Of course, there will always be haters and there will be people who wouldn't even consider studying with a non-native speaker. I think thats rather silly. Learning a language has nothing to do with the nationality of your teacher(s). It has to do with how much effort you put into it and how well you are able to make that language part of your daily life. If a non-native speaker can show you how to do that, then by all means, give it a try.

I believe there are a number of reasons why it tends to work so well. Here are a few that come to mind -

1. 
   I remember how I learned Thai. Or rather I remember all the mistakes I made coming into the language as an English speaker. I can steer you clear of almost all of them.
   I can explain what your mouth needs to be doing (without resorting to linguistics jargon) to produce the correct sounds. I admit my artistic ability to recreate the tongue in the mouth is rather weak, but it tends to suffice.
   Native speakers often tell you to say things that they rarely, if ever, say themselves. The goal should be to sound like them rather than sounding like a textbook or phrasebook right?
   I can recommend stuff to read and watch that isn't boring and isn't impossible to read.
   

So if any of that makes sense, then go for it. Don't pressure people into studying with you and I wouldn't recommend suddenly asking your friends to pay you for helping them when you've been doing it all along.

I have learnt Thai and would say I am 90+% fluent. I teach my friends Thai over a beer and their Thai improves considerably after just an hour after I have explained things. The majority have had Thai lessons from Thai teachers but all say that my teaching method is so much easier to understand to the extent that Thai now appears easy; which I think it is.

The problem for Farang that learn Thai initially is that it is explained in a way that seems nigh on impossible and so the majority of people give up at the first hurdle.

However, if you ask anyone that got over the initial hurdle they will all agree that Thai isn't difficult and can be learnt quickly. Thereafter the speed of progress only depends on effort rather than uncomprehension.

I would like to gauge whether people would be interested in learning Thai from a foreigner. There is the small complication of teaching Thai as a foreigner as technically it could be viewed as taking jobs away from a Thai person but being a "consultant" would be ok !

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Cheers.

Free beer sounds good. I'll stop by.

I was having the same problem. In my saved profile on their website I had always put my state in the town address. It worked in the past, but they changed something.

Anyways, just make sure the address is the same as the data associated with your card and forget about the state. In the drop down just choose the int'l option. It went through after I took the state out of the city field.

Hi People, i just moved to Thailand two month ago. I sign up for thai school 3 weeks ago. I am from the USA. I learned to spell starting with flash cards. Can any one tell me were i can buy them here. I live in area of Sukhumit and Soi 22.

Consider making them yourself. There is some fairly decent flashcard software these days.

I currently use Anki although you are better off creating/reviewing cards

via their website as the software no longer works very well with Thai.

Before that I used vtrain for a number of years and never had any font problems with it.

Hi Gwindarr - welcome to the forum.

Thanks much!

You're correct that exposure and immersion are essential, and if we were talking about non-tonal languages, I might agree with you that immersion is without a doubt the most effective way to proficiency.

Hrm. Its certainly possible to get proficient without immersion. Depending on how you go about it, it may even be 'easier.' And this is what most people end up doing as far as I know. But I'm not sure why a language being tonal or not would be a factor.

The problem is that for some people, even after 7-8 years of immersion in Thai, they are still unable to reproduce the tones, and certain sounds they don't have in their native languages, properly.

Perhaps they haven't had the right setup as far as listening goes. All the people I've ever met who have been here that long and skill can't reproduce the tones properly either never made an effort or went about it the wrong way. People tend to get frustrated when they can't accomplish something with methods that they are accustomed to. This is a big problem in language acquisition among other things.

The brains of non-tonal language speakers are wired to change the tones of words according to the way they feel about what they are saying. That reflex is strong, and in my experience immersion alone is not enough to get rid of it.

Our brains can be rewired. We do it all the time. Try writing or brushing your teeth with your non-dominant hand. It seems almost impossible at first. Now try it for a minute everyday for a month. You'll be surprised. Different non-tonal languages have different intonation. It sounds a bit odd when you talk about it, but if you just imitate the native speaker, you can catch on quick.

Unlike children learning their first language, adults already have pre-wired models for language in their head. It is not always an easy task to replace those models.

I disagree here. It seems harder (as adults) because we have more distractions, psychological inhibitions and preconceived notions about what is necessary to learn a language. And we aren't trying to replace these models, rather we are trying to add to them.

The alphabet and the tone rules are essential to be able to read - and once you can read, you have the best shortcut to learning new vocabulary.

Remembering words is a whole lot more difficult if you can't ask people how they are written. And if you still have not grasped the tones, then you are even more stuck because a lot of the words you learn will be mispronounced from the outset.

Agreed. Even if you can't spell something properly, being able to write out something phonetically (in Thai) is a big help. And I'd add that you can't be truly fluent without literacy.

Sure, theory IS tedious for a lot of people, but it pays off - it gives you a shortcut to acquiring advanced vocabulary the vast majority won't be able to learn properly just by immersion, trial and error.

I feel like we are getting off topic here. You don't need any theory, grammar or anything other than your ears and your brain to get used to the tones. Are you with me there?

The way to get comfortable with the tones is through exposure. Just as with any foreign sound, you won't be able to pronounce it correctly until you can hear it correctly (as in distinguish it from other similar sounds). Kids can't pronounce things correctly first in their native languages either.

So just listen loads in the beginning. Even if you can speak now, but you are aware that your pronunciation might be not quite spot on yet then it can't hurt to spend some time listening. Watch tv, listen to podcasts, news..recordings of anything interesting. It doesn't even matter if you can't understand it. Its best if you can find stuff that you like. Don't watch boring textbook videos. Watch movies, music vids, soaps - whatever you can get into. Your brain needs quite a bit of time and loads of exposure to sort out the sounds and the more interesting it is the better. Try to imitate what you are hearing now and then. It isn't necessary to think of the tones in the sense of high, rising, etc when you are listening, though this may be of help while you are learning to read. For now, just put in the hours of exposure and it will pay off quick.

Anyways, the primary reason people can study a language for so long and still suck is because they haven't listened and/or read enough. Not because they are too old or too stupid or don't have the ever-sought-after-non-existent "natural language learning talent". All those excuses are lame and just wrong. They just haven't put in the time (or don't know how) to get anywhere yet.

Just keep at it and everything falls into place. It doesn't need to involve memorizing crazy charts and complex rules. Go study that stuff after you are fluent or are an aspiring linguist (the kind that studies how languages work rather than how to speak them).