Gats

Not that it's my cup of tea, but what the heck is the problem with some guy (who's self-funded, not a criminal, not working, not attending classes, not married, no family in Thailand, under 50, entirely solvent but not a fatcat investor...) simply wanting to live in Thailand? What kind of visa SHOULD he have? No argument that back-to-back 30d exemptions aren't really proper, but back-to-back tourist visas aren't really either. Just not to be allowed (until he turns 50); that's it? What problem does such a person pose for Thailand, Thais, or other foreigners? If you're inclined to say Thailand just doesn't want him as a resident and that's its right, fine. But then don't try and make the case that this is anything beyond simple exclusionary/protectionist policy. Thailand certainly has the right to make & enforce such policies, but don't try & persuade me that it's some big moral issue in the same class with criminal activity, welfare fraud, sex tourism, etc, AND that Thailand doesn't have much more attention-worthy problems it should be concerning itself with.

And from a beurocractic point of view, what's the difference on paper between the profile you are suggesting and the profile of a foreigner who is working illegally if all your doing is crossing a border and getting a stamp?

Tourist visas are not that hard to get, they're just tracked better and gives them an opportunity to ask the right questions.

It is protectionist... protecting jobs for thais and making sure people are in the system and paying taxes.. and so it bloody well should be. EVERY other country that finds itself a desirable place to live does the same and EVERY western country has a much higher burden of proof!

and as for "Thailand doesn't have much more attention-worthy problems it should be concerning itself with" ... umm, not if you're the department of immigration, no.

In answer to JudgeDredd; Yes, your friend will be stuffed after 12 Aug if they enforce this. I think you need to be clear on the distinction between visa exemption or "walk-in" visa as they call it above, and visa status. All your friend needs to do is get a Tourist Visa from a Thai Embassy or Consulate. This is what the Thai ruling is trying to encourage - the getting of a visa if you want to keep coming back.These are valid for 30 or 60 days (with 2 entries on the 60 day visa). So your friend can still visit but needs a proper visa rather than the visa exemption status. If your friend is as rich as you say he is, I'm sure an extra night in Singapore or Hong Kong will not do him any harm while he waits for a Tourist Visa.

Absolutely right! And while applying for the visa, they'll have an opportunity to ask the right questions about how he is supporting himself and where his money comes from. Should be easy to answer if he's not working illegally.

Thailand doesn't have the resources to run around raiding scuba diving schools and checking working status of foreigners. That's why their system is a pretty simple case of making you check in regularly with immigration or cross the border regularly so your status can be checked. Even PRs have to check in annually.

I think it's all pretty sensible and any country in the world will do its best to ensure that people who work there have the proper status and pay their taxes. No big scandle here, just a lower cost enforcement approach for a country that has a lot of land borders and a lot of foreigners working under the radar.

Consecutive tourist visas isn't even possible in most western countries, so thailand is actually pretty light on about these things.

Any other country would have refused entry long before if there was any question whatsoever about how you were supporting yourself if you were not working illegally. I believe the problem here was the lack of cash and explanation as to where said cash was coming from.

If she'd been able to go to an atm and pull out the cash, or even explained her boyfriend was legally working here and supporting her, she'd likely have been let through. Fundamentally I don't think this was particularly bad treatment. Any govt will do their best to keep jobs for tax paying citizens over cash in hand travellers breaking the law (not assuming you were, but I agree with Thai immigration that it sure appears that way).

Got to agree that these guys were just doing their job.

(Also worth noting that if you are refused entry, the airline in almost every country is obligated to fly you back to country of origin at their own cost - if your friend bought the ticket, then you wasted the money).

And since Windows XP users won't be getting the patch for this fairly threatening bug, anyone still running the now-unsupported software is going to have to cough up some big bucks to stay safe. Anyone like—oh, the IRS, for instance.

Brilliant timing indeed. Microsoft is old school which tries to monetize it's customer base as long as it still is possibility.

Fortunately there are far better alternatives compared to the Microsoft products. Let me introduce you to the the Linux family, where the operating system as well as applications get their security updates with ease.

Both the core software (which you might call Windows) and the applications like browsers and way way more, automatically check their security status and upgrade themselves automatically. Pretty handy actually.

There is no waiting for upgrades to be installed as everything is done in background. There is no forced reboots - in cases the core (or kernel as we like to call it) is upgraded, the system will suggest to reboot, but never forces it. It's not uncommon to go days before the reboot as there is not really needs to shutdown the laptop every now and then. Simple sleep and wake up in few seconds is enough.

The pricetag to upgrade to Linux? - it's free of charge.

BWAHAHAHAHA!

A browser vulnerability that can only be visited by a site designed to exploit it that could give temporary high level access if you are not behind a firewall is a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar cry from Linux's latest one.

Can you say heartbleed? Read chunks of ram off a supposedly secure server at will?

..... lucky it just automatically updated in the background to make sure you exposed anything in ram to anybody who wanted it for the last 2 years. You must be so proud of your technology advice.

I agree there's a lot of others out there, had a wander around ekamai tonight and damn... Hot girls everywhere and most probably kid free.

Anyway that's irrelevant if you've made your decision, great if you support her to get up and running but she should be keen to get her own job. There's no need for you to be sending her 20k every month, her living costs will be nowhere close. I know many Thai girls who don't earn that and still manage to support themselves. Speaking English she will easily be able to find a job working in a restaurant with a guaranteed wage including service charge of around 12k per month plus if it's a reasonable restaurant she will get a few more thousand in tips. Enough to live on by far without you sending her money.

Your money would be better saved for visiting her and supporting any future visa application.

If you take no other advice from anybody here, take this advice above. Tell her you're working your butt off to get to be with her and if she cares it will be enough.

Come to thailand asap. Do not send cash beyond very small amounts (bank transfers of a couple of thousand baht will help your visa app anyway).

TheRascal has articulated the best advice you can have and probably more than your foolish gullibility deserves. I have been through the doubt of red flags and things I would not have got good responses to on here either and happily married after 6years of awesomeness.

With kids involved it will be 10 times tougher. She may have to accept she won't see them again (and you should ask yourself if that is what you want from a woman). You also must be prepared to change your circumstances to be with her. All these things make me doubt your resolve as much as hers at this point, but caring does not mean being an idiot and I do think you're in over your head.

Good luck. This may drag and still end badly so I hope you found those stones I warned you about before.

....................

 

Bessides, my point here is even if, like us you had a best case scenario, I don't think the OPs girl would eveng go through step 2. The paperwork we had to do for the first visitor visa (the toughest) made us both bleed from the eyes.

 

As you mentioned took a whole lot of paperwork from  "both" sides, this womwn's family are noy going to help with any paperwork to help him or her out.

 

Doesn't have to be family, but it helps if it is. If there's photos of abuse, then that well and truely falls into the compassionate circumstances bucket for defacto visa in 8-12mths.

For the 3 month tourist visa, stat decs from friends on both sides are not a requirement, but they help.

As I keep saying, it's moot anyway as there's no way she wants to do it and all that will follow is excuses and an escalation of the "emergency" to send money. It's like clock work.

I've seen people hold signs up as proof of stuff before too.... if you haven't already, check out the ebola monkey man... scamming the scammer

http://www.ebolamonkeyman.com/

 You got to remember as far as I had know she was living separate to husband and was separated.   She told me she had a room I only found out she still living with ex once I got to Thailand.    but on his his facebook profile under relationship it says "its complicated" so they were kinda separate but still in same house.

 

 In the 2 odd months we were communicate before I went to see her I never knew the chit would hit the fan like this or I would of never got involved.

  So she managed to get away from him for 2 weeks to bump and grind with you, but she can't get out for a day to apply for a visa? There's always little white lies at the beginning of a relationship, but beware the ones that discredit everything that comes after it.

Dude @runamile is right, come back to thailand (and you better grow a pair first) to give her a place to go with no cash involved or turn off your computer.

 It getting even more crazy, yesterday had a email conversation with him that was 36 odd replies long, he keen on getting paid off.     The real kicker was at the end when I said im not paying him.

 

 

Paul Johnny

I said I would consider compensation for you, 1 million baht is too much. 201...

4:21 PM (20 hours ago)

 

(removed thai name) as per rules as its thai language

For me is not that much for a perfect wife. ________________________________ ...

4:27 PM (20 hours ago)

 

 

 

 Perfect wife!! lol what the hell, she committed adultery with me many times.  I must admit I got a laugh when he I typed that....btw the way im not going to pay any compensation to him I was just testing him out.              in the west if your wife did this you'd want them out .

 

 Then last night I got email from her saying he beat her. With photos.   

 

 

Dude - not hard to get photos of bruises.

Stop trying to legitimise being "the other guy" and act. 1 of 2 options dude:

1. Either give her somewhere else to go (which may mean moving to thailand for a while). Do this and you'll find out quick if she's serious or not.

2. Stop all communication, end it, and stop being a self indulgent twat.

At best you're being taken for a ride. At worst your little ego stroking is coming at the expense of a genuine girl and you've put her in danger.

You're just starting to make me feel sick. If this situation is a reality, then money won't fix it, an exit sign will.

Come to thailand. Give her a place to stay. Get her a 3 month tourist viss (6 is more likely to get turned down if it is the first). 

You'll have your answers pretty quick.

If you're "responsibilities" prevent this, then you don't care enough. Stop being such a naive western drama queen and man up. Seriously.

As per previous post many Thai men not welcome farangs, but these guys are more tolerant as I know. We just make shows up using money (most of us save for year to spend on vacation), to lure these women. Many Thai men feel we steal their women, causing divorce or break ups. Can we tolerate if foreigners who visit our countries, takes away our wives or girlfriends? Obviously not.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Forget making it a racial thing... it happens all the time in our countries. Shallow girl leaves boyrfriend for richer guy!

At least in the thai situations, the boyfriend remains the true love and gets a crapload of money out of it !

Wow. you wont believe this!!

I sent an email to the Thai Consulate in Brisbane 2 hours ago thinking I would get a reply next week...guess what...i just got a reply!!...on ANZAC day!!

IT says....."Thai Airways and Thai Immigration will permit her to travel to Thailand direct with an expired passport. She will need to

show her current Thai ID card at checkin together with her expired passport. She can get a new passport in Bangkok in a

few days."

Excellent...that will save alot of time and money..but I wil still make the phone call to Sydney before we go...just to confirm;-)

Thailand is a great country:-)

Just remember that if her name is changing on the new one to KEEP THE OLD PASSPORT!

We've had trouble before leaving Sydney and returning when my wife didn't bring her old passport with the perm resident visa in it. Thai airways actually had to call immigration.

Brought it with us the 2nd time and nobody asked for it and dramas so it seems a bit inconsistent.

 

 

 

you got a good one

We won't be saying that next week when I find out she's got 2 kids and is already married. I'm already thinking how I can get the $30k together 

I tell again OP is writing fiction, the story not exist in reality, but you people not understand this.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

 

 

Our comments were jokes - they didn't really relate to whether he's telling the truth or not. 

 

I understand what you said but I don't agree - I don't think he's writing fiction, the skype conversation would be too much effort on his part, especially as the original had quite a lot of thai in it but was deleted. I wish for his sake it was fiction, poor chap. 

 

Man I wish I could agree with you Danny... the real tradgedy here is that this story is very very very common. You've only got to look at the racist, cynical expats on here who hate on thais for the fact that their dream of being an awkward lonely guy who ends up with a 20something hot wife wasn't actually happening and they weren't "just that special guy". I have no sympathy at all.

My own situation had a lot of parallels (no kids though). But there was no money requests. No excuses. Just a genuine effort to be together and like any relationship it was hard work, but worth it.

 

you got a good one

We won't be saying that next week when I find out she's got 2 kids and is already married. I'm already thinking how I can get the $30k together 

 

  Or when he realises that she was never at work, but an internet cafe and the camera went off as she had a prettier one (or who one was more gullable) who wanted to hit her up. I bet when the camera went off the responses slowed down too :)

 

Ok first off, I HAVE seen this occur before and it's usually a scam. The "trapped" thing is very suspicious, but everybody else has already told you that and you're convincing yourself your dreams have come true, so let me focus on your side of it.

 

You're clearly smitten, so at least do some due dillegence and just get the relationship wheels moving. There is NO excuse for any of the following to be too much trouble for her if she cares half as much as you think. If it is a scam, you'll get excuses and probably be in the too hard basket before you get to step 3 (with your money in the bank).

 

1. Don't pay the money. If she can see friends, she can escape, but you may need to give her a place to escape too. If there's violence threatened, then one of her friends can go get her with the police (not you - police will not help you).

 

2. You can have a marriage annulled if you can prove the relationship is disfunctional for over 2 years (it's a neglection cause that's a pain in the butt, but it can be done). That means no shared living with him or shared bed with him for that period of time. Then he doesn't have to agree to get a divorce. So work on getting her somewhere safe and with you and start bulding up the 2 years.

 

3. If she does love you, then she will actually work to be with you. Scams like this exist in australia too, but the line here is wide and very very grey. Remember, even bar girls dream of a good boyfriend here, but they'll happily suck the ones they don't like dry in the meantime (why not? Run round australia offering the equivalent of a six figure salary to make you feel special and I know a bunch of aussie chicks who'd convince any man they loved him for that - so lets not judge)

 

4. To test this (and you MUST test this), give her a way out without spending money. If she loves you, she will take it.

 

5. Get together all the paperwork for a tourist visa (evidence of relationship, chat transcripts and all the photos of you together you can find). You'll also need to prove a reason to return on her part (job property or family). Even find a way to live here for a month or 2 to make it happen. Beurocracy will test any thai girl's resolve and most scammers move on the minute they have to fill in a 5 page form and wait in line at the embassy.

 

6. Aussie immigration don't give a crap if they're seperated, but still married, so partner tourist visas are fine as long as you can prove the relationship is real (I've done 2 with my wife before she was my wife).

 

7. Take her to Aus, forget expensive resturants, throwing money around and wining and dining. Just look after her and enjoy the time together doing chilled stuff. Even plan to spend another few months here when it runs out (she WILL get homesick - never heard of a thai girl who doesn't).

 

8. Ignore all cash to friend/family requests for that time (anything over $100 sets a bad precendent - school shoes for a brother, fine, somebody who's about to die to a loan shark if you don't send them 100,000baht - forget it). If she's legit, it will be the last thing on her mind and won't taint the relationship, but it will come up. Regular, small deposits to her when she's with you are cool and a record of real relationship. Get both names on bills if you can.

 

9. After 12months you can get a defacto visa from Aus. Our immigration does not require a divorce certificate (although there will be questions without one) if you've been living together for over a year.. get past that 12months and her ex can eat it.

 

If you get through the above tests, then you are right. If all you get is excuses excuses excuses and the complete run around. Then, please, for the self respect of all aussies, forget her and move on.

 

The line between scam and "fun" here is soooooooo different mate. I'm assuming you're not an idiot and that your vibe of her affection was actually real. The fun she had was real. She probably even likes you. BUT! Family is thick here and in a hardup thai family, the assumption is you've got money coming out of every orifice.. and why shouldn't they have some for all that fun you had with her?

 

There can be happy endings (I had a similar story without the money demands and 6 years later - happily married with a great relationship with the family), but 1 thing is true - pay up and you'll either be completely ripped off or at the very least become the dumb ugly farang cliche those in her family are making you out to be by putting this pressure on.

 

Fight for it if you want, but you will 100% lose if you hand over a single dollar, scam or no scam.

 

Utter rubbish.

 

We are in  the final stages of getting the prospective spouse visa for my girlfriend to come to Oz to marry.

 

We had to provide the marriage certificate from her (and my) previous marriage and the divorce certificate from her (and my) previous marriage.

 

The Aust Embassy BKK  have also requested a certificate or evidence that she is single and is able to be married. We submitted this to the Embassy on Thursday, yesterday.

 

One of the biggest issues Oz immigration has (had) is already married women coming to Oz to marry Australians. The process is very, very thorough.

 

We also had to get details from her primary school, high school, university and work history on top of the medical and police clearance all to prove that she is who she says she is.

 

There is also the house book to show the family members and sign off by the local Gumnun (excuse the spelling) and statements from friends and family (both in Oz and Thailand) that attest the relationship is genuine.

 

So far it has taken 7 months since the application was submitted.and is likely to be another 2 or 3 until finalised.

 

If you think you can just bring a lady here and wait 12 months then you are very much mistaken. She won't get a 12 month visitor visa anyway. Maybe 6 months if you are lucky, most likely three and even time at that. I.e 3 months in Oz and 3 months out, or 6 months in Oz and six months out.

 

This applies to Thailand and the Philippines as they are the two countries that have historically proven to be the most problematic in the area of already married women coming to OZ.

 

hahahaha better read up a bit more dude.

For prospective marriage, yes, you need to prove you are single.. and marry in 9mths.

For defacto you do not. If you can prove the relationship is seperated for at least 2 years and yours has been ongoing and unbroken for over a year, you can get defacto. I also didn't suggest you could get a 12 month visa, so again, read a little more before being master migration expert. I suggested he do whatever it takes to be together for 12 months.

My wife got 3months tourist. Came back 3 months later on another visitor visa for another 6, then I lived in thailand for 4months and we got DEFACTO without a divorce certificate (please read up on difference between defacto and prospective marriage - we didn't do prospective marriage because we didn't have the certificate and didn't want to chose between marrying in 9 months or having the marriage not recognised in thailand).

2 years later, after she was already an australian permanent residen, we got a divorce certificate and married in thailand but it's all about the burden of proof and the clear geniune nature of the relationship which meant a box of paperwork and letters from a relative on both sides and stat decs from my boss and friends.

Oh and guess what Mr Expert - didn't even have to go in for an interview and approval took 6 weeks as we had a long history of following the rules, dotted the i's and crossed the t's with the embassy to be together so the defacto was the easiest of the 3 visas we applied for.

Little more time in the immi site before you mouth off dude. Maybe if you knew as much about it as you think you do, you wouldn't have been waiting for 7months?

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/35relationship.htm

Bessides, my point here is even if, like us you had a best case scenario, I don't think the OPs girl would eveng go through step 2. The paperwork we had to do for the first visitor visa (the toughest) made us both bleed from the eyes.

Yeah I'm out on this too.

She'll have an excuse for everything mate - you're not street wise enough to have a relationship with this girl, even if there's any truth in any of it. Let me tell you what's happening on Skype right now..

You're feeding the challenges that we throw at you straight back to her.

She has excuses for most.

When you ask one she has no excuse for she says "oooh I guess you don't really want me. I understand..." or something like it.

You freak out about losing her and wind it back.

This is the same routine that manipulators do in Aus, but thai's are just sooooo much better at it and that's no insult to thailand, it just shows how self-interested and naive us aussies can be... too many disney movies as kids.

...and this coming from a man happily married to a thai woman... a very very clever one too.

You ain't up to the task bro.

Definitely the uncle.Any photos of them together on his or her facebook?

Do the facebook timelines on either go back further than 6months?

Get a photo. Bet you it's her brother or her cousin.

Mate the story will shift and change - get a PI if it shifts too much. Test her with simple steps. It's the only way and stop looking for an excuse to believe her.

 

Ok first off, I HAVE seen this occur before and it's usually a scam. The "trapped" thing is very suspicious, but everybody else has already told you that and you're convincing yourself your dreams have come true, so let me focus on your side of it.

You're clearly smitten, so at least do some due dillegence and just get the relationship wheels moving. There is NO excuse for any of the following to be too much trouble for her if she cares half as much as you think. If it is a scam, you'll get excuses and probably be in the too hard basket before you get to step 3 (with your money in the bank).

1. Don't pay the money. If she can see friends, she can escape, but you may need to give her a place to escape too. If there's violence threatened, then one of her friends can go get her with the police (not you - police will not help you).

2. You can have a marriage annulled if you can prove the relationship is disfunctional for over 2 years (it's a neglection cause that's a pain in the butt, but it can be done). That means no shared living with him or shared bed with him for that period of time. Then he doesn't have to agree to get a divorce. So work on getting her somewhere safe and with you and start bulding up the 2 years.

3. If she does love you, then she will actually work to be with you. Scams like this exist in australia too, but the line here is wide and very very grey. Remember, even bar girls dream of a good boyfriend here, but they'll happily suck the ones they don't like dry in the meantime (why not? Run round australia offering the equivalent of a six figure salary to make you feel special and I know a bunch of aussie chicks who'd convince any man they loved him for that - so lets not judge)

4. To test this (and you MUST test this), give her a way out without spending money. If she loves you, she will take it.

5. Get together all the paperwork for a tourist visa (evidence of relationship, chat transcripts and all the photos of you together you can find). You'll also need to prove a reason to return on her part (job property or family). Even find a way to live here for a month or 2 to make it happen. Beurocracy will test any thai girl's resolve and most scammers move on the minute they have to fill in a 5 page form and wait in line at the embassy.

6. Aussie immigration don't give a crap if they're seperated, but still married, so partner tourist visas are fine as long as you can prove the relationship is real (I've done 2 with my wife before she was my wife).

7. Take her to Aus, forget expensive resturants, throwing money around and wining and dining. Just look after her and enjoy the time together doing chilled stuff. Even plan to spend another few months here when it runs out (she WILL get homesick - never heard of a thai girl who doesn't).

8. Ignore all cash to friend/family requests for that time (anything over $100 sets a bad precendent - school shoes for a brother, fine, somebody who's about to die to a loan shark if you don't send them 100,000baht - forget it). If she's legit, it will be the last thing on her mind and won't taint the relationship, but it will come up. Regular, small deposits to her when she's with you are cool and a record of real relationship. Get both names on bills if you can.

9. After 12months you can get a defacto visa from Aus. Our immigration does not require a divorce certificate (although there will be questions without one) if you've been living together for over a year.. get past that 12months and her ex can eat it.

If you get through the above tests, then you are right. If all you get is excuses excuses excuses and the complete run around. Then, please, for the self respect of all aussies, forget her and move on.

The line between scam and "fun" here is soooooooo different mate. I'm assuming you're not an idiot and that your vibe of her affection was actually real. The fun she had was real. She probably even likes you. BUT! Family is thick here and in a hardup thai family, the assumption is you've got money coming out of every orifice.. and why shouldn't they have some for all that fun you had with her?

There can be happy endings (I had a similar story without the money demands and 6 years later - happily married with a great relationship with the family), but 1 thing is true - pay up and you'll either be completely ripped off or at the very least become the dumb ugly farang cliche those in her family are making you out to be by putting this pressure on.

Fight for it if you want, but you will 100% lose if you hand over a single dollar, scam or no scam.

Fact: Yingluck's government sent home the US navy who offered help Fact: Many university students have been told they are not welcome to help unless wearing a red shirt when doing it Fact: People were being told not to worry by Yingluck at a time when they should have worried. Fact: Jatuporn is blaming the Democrats for a conspiracy to make Yingluck look bad which she clearly has not trouble doing herself Fact: Foreign aid dollars are being spent on some relief that is being delivered to people with the Shinawatra name printed on it This is not armchair expertise. Thailand needs strength, resolve and a PLAN! Not a mild wishy washy leader who is out of her depth anywhere other than an Armani store. This woman is incapable of doing anything OTHER than looking compassionate and/or taking credit for others contributions.

PS: I have been doing what I can and have donated a few thousand dollars to a relief effort I trust is not going into red shirt pockets so no patronising replies about whinging do nothings please.

Government's already making excuses for the lack of organisation and co-ordination...

I've never got a picture of it, but I've chucked at the Militaly Shooting range in BKK near the BTS.

I agree with zorm. I suspect that the self-serving group of Thaksin's cronies would hate to see an educated and optimistic underclass brought about by another government because they would lose their ability to take so much for themselves.

God bless the people being taken for a power grabbing ride by the red shirt leaders. I hope you can find empowerment from people who truely care about your cause and want changes in your lives - not those who use your pain for their own personal gain.

I will put one down side in addition to this. What is your long term plans?

I only ask you to think about that because the road is very long and hard to go to permanency and her having 2 children in thailand makes the process a LOT harder. To meet the requirements for a year for defacto (only option if she can't get a divorce) you will have to either move to thailand or she will have to abandon her children for a year. Even then, to migrate her, the children will require permission to move and you will require police checks. I found beurocracy to be very demoralising when you're not together. I was fortunate because my girl was able to stay with me in Aus for the long haul first. I have a friend who married a woman with a thai child and they just couldn't finalise until they finally got permission from her thai son's father - that took months and they were married with a daughter of their own.

If you love her, I would start trying to find a way to move here for 6 months after the first visit. The internet conversations ARE proof of relationship for a visitor visa, but they do not come into play for a permanent one. Living together with the exception of all others is the only way to go that far.

It will test the relationship and do try to avoid being a bank account for somebody you're not living with. If she wants to be with you, that will be more important to her than sending money. I planned the later steps from the start including coming here for 4months to apply for permanency. The embassy will look for that sort of determination to be together before they take you seriously.

I'm no visa agent, but I can give you the voice of experience in a similar situation 1 year ago. You do NOT need money in her account. It's a case of EITHER her or YOU being the bread winner - not both.

My girl and I maintained a relationship online for about 4months with sms messages on phone bills and MSN logs too (LOTS of them).

- I came to visit her for 2 weeks (ended up being 3 due to airport closure) in november 2009.

- I also have a good income

- I had no long term savings

- My girl had almost no income at the time (although she'd had a job for years before)

- She is still seperated and not divorced - long story, but the *&$% won't sign the paper

- Total length of relationship was about 5 months when we applied

We were given a 3month no further stay visa.

The key points they seemed interested in was:

- Legitimacy of the relationship - they requested more photos when we'd initially provided 8. Fortunately we'd taken a lot together during my visit and provided another 8

- My ability to support her (including a good place to stay)

- A reason for her to return to thailand

We found the first tourist visa was the most difficult as they questioned her quite a bit. They actually seem as interested in protecting the girls in this situation as they do the border because the questions were all about me. It appears if you are going to sponsor her, you will be the main applicant more than her. Having said that, don't call the embassy! I got in quite a bit of trouble for calling with questions about her visa as a visitor visa is the girls choice and you are not to be involved actively (yes, i was very polite). I assume this is related to the protection thing too.

- Sounds like her kids are a darn good reason to return.

- If your income is good, try to make it so the your most recent bank statement ends with $3000+ in there as that's their magic number for ticking the "enough funds for length of stay" box.

- You will need 6months of statements and payslips as proof of income.

- Be honest and do NOT reherse lies for the embassy. Case workers can spot that a mile away.

- Write a good letter. On all visa apps so far, I've written thoughtful and honest letters that directly address the things they need.

Following the first visa, my girl went back to thailand to follow the rules and came back on another 6months and we are both in thailand now after 1.5 years total relationship and she was granted a Partner Visa (defacto) last week!

Don't believe the hype - follow the rules, do the paper work, be nice and it was a LOT easier than the angry types on here tell you it is. Good income helps a lot too.

The first paragraph makes no sense. What has protectionism and democracy have in common? Don't confuse free and open economy with Democracy.

The 2nd paragraph. Basically repeats the first.

I agree totally. That's an American idea that "free and open economy" = democracy. Especially where American interests are concerned in foreign countries. I do believe if there was a vote in Thailand about openning up foreign ownership, even the red and yellow would agree it shouldn't be done.