expat-global

Let us hope that all societies learn from the tragedy but seeing that this has happened before in many other countries, it is doubtful that we, as the human race, will be wise enough to learn from history.

We can never eliminate all tragedies, and that should not be a goal.

Nonetheless, we can seize the day to partially learn from mistakes and chip away at improving enforcement. If the reaction to this results in a little more enforcement, then it may save a lot more lives. Maybe a whole lot. Not all lives, of course, but many lives is good enough.

In the mid-1990s, there was a series of major electrical fires around Bangkok. That resulted in some improvement of inspections.

There are many packed nightclubs in Bangkok, so you take your risks when you attend. Most deaths in fires are due to the air and smoke, not the heat.

Of course, there are risks in everything when you walk out your front door...

It's amazing that nobody in the loop stopped the fireworks from being fired. But stage performances often have pyrotechnics ...

First, isn`t it illegal to use fireworks indoors in Thailand? Shouldn`t he just say that it is forbidden used inside?

Of course it's illegal. In Thailand, the problem is not what's legal and what's illegal. This issue is *enforcement*.

The same applies to the electrical code, being that the most common source of fires in Thailand seems to be electrical faults. You can still find new places being built with 2-prong electrical outlets even though the electric code has required 3-prong grounded/earthed outlets for many years now. There's a difference between "as designed" and "as built", but costs are cut and people sign off anyway. Even the places which have 3 prongs are often done wrong, such as not a true ground (maybe a wire screwed into a cement wall), and/or polarity wrong between neutral and load, and/or improper breakers. Bad electricity causes a lot of fires and kills a lot of people, too. Many have died by electricution, too. How many times have you had little shocks in Thailand which you didn't get back home? That just a small reminder, the tip of the iceberg.

The same "enforcement" issue also applies to environmental damage by pollution, whaling and fishing species to extinction, and so on. It's not just Thailand.

If you look at the laws in Thailand, they are actually very good and mostly world class. However, enforcement seems to be near the opposite extreme.

Due diligence, vigilence, vigilantes ... what's the practical solution?

As Managing Director, my time is valuable but I waste way too much time mentoring Thai staff rather than promoting the company's business and growing the company.

Thailand is not known as a software outsourcing country. Software Park was a flop. So the same will apply in-house programmers. What you can do here is limited. I have hired Thais who taught things like Linux at various institutions, and I am shocked at what they cannot do.

Success is about productivity. I'm just about to the point of outsourcing design and programming to a western country again, and having the Thais just do the basic non-programming stuff over here. It's far from ideal, but I've been wasting my valuable time otherwise.

The problem with hiring an expat over here is so many are consumers of alcohol in large quantities or high frequency and things like that, in addition to all the paperwork and expenses.

My company is considering hiring one farang programmer with good analysis skills to program our main in-house websites as well as for some customers, and to answer emails from other foreigners which again requires analytic skills and familiarity with foreigners' needs and outlook to close some sales.

The farang must be from the US, UK, ANZ, or Europe/Russia. My company is full of Thais except me. However, you know the problems with Thais and most Asians. After all, what was ever originally invented here ... and so many potential customers eventually ask to speak to another expat, not a Thai ... so we and I (Managing Director) need one good farang expat. This is not a specialist, simple "OK boss, what do I do next?" kind of job, so if you have that kind of minimalist attitude, then don't bother me.

There are spinoff opportunities to this job, not just in Thailand but in other countries as well, for the right kind of person.

However, if you've lived in Thailand a long time, understanding Thailand, Thai people, and Thai-farang situations, then you would be much more attractive for this position.

Please send a PM to this user account.

Not a pleasant experience, but seeing as we all gripe about mafia and crime and demand action, we sort of have to tolerate these types of events if we want our gripes to be addressed.

These searches could be a lot worse, and there is no significant social order campaign these days ... so it could be much worse. I think that in general you may be right and we shouldn't be so idealistic. The road to h*ll can be paved with idealistic intentions. Like you say, we should tolerate these events.

I would like to know if anyone else has had this experience.

I was driving, exited an office building on Asoke around 10pm, going south towards Rama 4, when two policemen on a motorcycle caught up with me and waved me over to stop just before the light at Sukhumvit. I had gone only a very short distance. I also recalled policemen on a motorcycle emerging from across the street right about the time I exited my office building, so I assume it was the same ones.

They searched my car thoroughly, including under my seats and all in the boot, and also searched all my pockets. I had some toilet tissue in my back pocket, worn out from sweat and wear during the day, and they really went through that carefully.

They checked my driver's licence, not international but no problem they were not interested.

They did not test me for alcohol. Nothing but hidden drugs in the car. They seemed quite professional about it. All in all it was only about 5 minutes. It could have been more, so I don't see this as a very big ordeal.

I don't mind searches for drugs because I know drugs cause a lot of problems for people, society and crime. This is not a complaint. This is all OK, no problem. I was fully cooperative. It is comforting to see some control to keep drugs off the street and the mafia in check, and hope Thailand and Sukhumvit don't degrade like a lot of hot spots in the world with many crazy people and criminals, so I encouraged them when it was all over.

However, I just wonder whether anyone else has experienced this, or whether I was specifically targeted?

What seems strange is why was my car searched, not someone else's? I felt like maybe I was targeted, but why? Mistaken identity? Why did they choose me? I was not suspicious in any way I can imagine. There is nothing about my history, business, associates (as far as I know, but I'm in a very conservative business field) or appearance which would make anyone think I am involved in drugs. People who know me would think the opposite. I am conservative and ordinary, not young and I am a family man living with my wife and children.

I'm just curious whether others have experienced this recently. Have the police stepped up their searches of cars? Any other new antidrug efforts like this? Or what's happening here?

I'm taking some photos of the Bangkok skyline while the weather is clear and sunny and cool. The problem is finding the best places to take photos.

Baiyoke is an obvious place, but at night the veranda is moving so that taking a nighttime photo with a tripod is hopeless. Daytime is OK, if you go on a weekend morning before the pollution comes. (Before, I went on a weekday afternoon and couldn't see very far looking south.)

I took some photos from the restaurant on top of Sun Tower (just southwest of the Chong Nonsi skytrain station) and those are pretty good, both day and night (on a weekend).

Does anyone know of any rooftop restaurants or high level hotel terraces or any other vantage points along Sukhumvit or Petchburi Rd. or farther north which offer a good view of a beautiful part of the skyline and are accessible to a farang stranger walking in?

Cheers.

This is a service I hope ThaiVisa.com or someone gets working, because it is a lot easier to type from a keyboard than it is from a mobile phone! It's usually better to SMS serious people than to interrupt them with a call.

Even SMS's you pay for often don't stand a chance of making it to their destination around here nowadays.

A few sent to me from the UK in the recent weeks must of vanished in the vortex of hubs.

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My experience has been the same for years, going back to pagers. A messaging website comes up, it works for awhile, then it stops working. It drives traffic to the website for awhile, of course, but (1) I guess it just hasn't been financially sustainable yet, and (2) insider contacts & arrangements are usually not reliable over time.

It's better that ThaiVisa.com announce and try ... and not offer for quality reasons for awhile ... than to run a half-baked system, or to not try at all.

I'd be willing to pay for a reliable service, but I don't know if there are enough others who would. I don't believe in "free" things (not any more than I believe in communism), and if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is!

Right now, it's hard enough getting a call thru on DTAC. Due to their recent promotions for super low rates, they are overloaded. I often have to call my colleagues several times before I get thru if they're on DTAC, and I come out just typing an SMS to them ... so it's a good time to evaluate SMS web services.

Unfortunately, the bad name of those web SMS services could rub off on the web service provider (such as ThaiVisa), so that's probably another reason ThaiVisa has cut back for the time being ...

missingpersons.or.th has been on the news in belgium as the official site for thailand as well as on th BBC

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Right. It also became official today.

Actually, ThaiTsunami is the "official site for Thailand" as regards general information, and MissingPersons.or.th is the official site specifically for the database of missing persons in Thailand.

Today, the MissingPersons.or.th site was updated at the bottom with "NECTEC is responsible for the registration system of missing persons."

ThaiTsunami.com was also updated just today. They have taken down their database today and added links to MissingPersons.or.th and Phuket IT City.

Unfortunately, ThaiTsunami added a flash splash opening screen, and have animated their logo at the top, which consumes bandwidth without giving useful and practical features.

On the plus side, the default of ThaiTsunami is in English.

Note that at the very top of the page is their announcement that they need telephone operators who can speak foreign languages.

Notably, MissingPersons.or.th was set up in only about 24 hours after a meeting with the Red Cross. It seems to work well. Proof that things can be done quickly.

MissingPersons.or.th have also implemented some of my suggestions on user interface. These people do listen, and are doing their best.

I would suggest that those working on the images system contact the relevant people with a conceptual design if not a working system to pass around. What works is used.

So many missing people, and for every one missing you can multiply many times for family, friends and associates overseas and in Thailand... The identification logistics by photo, description, and DNA is staggering.

I have some, too, as does my wife, plus some inquiries by email. We were staying on one of those beaches with our daughter on the previous month, and my wife had friends there who we visited... and all that's gone...

Mark

[A lot of responsibility has shifted to ThaiTsunami.com by the Ministry of ICT, and thank goodness it's a dot com.

Correction: this may not be accurate at all.

The fact that MissingPersons.or.th works better carries more weight in my opinion.

Good to send suggestions to them all and enter dialogue, but it will probably come down to which one actually works technically the best and the first.

The same databases might appear on multiple sites.

ThaiTsunami has the better interface.

MissingPersons works better.

On ThaiTsunami.com, their records on-line are so far behind that we won't know where they stand until they get the updated database on-line and put to the test.

ThaiTsunami.com is asking for inputs by email, whereas MissingPersons.or.th has an on-line form to fill in which prompts you for your inputs.

Overall, it's good that there are multiple sites and databases out there under development, because we don't want to depend too much on either one authority or on one particular technical system.

Let's see which one works well enough first.

Right now, MissingPersons seems to be in the lead on-line because it works better technically. Easier and quicker to fix up the interface than to fix up the programming.

The Phuket IT City database swelled massively to almost 30K names - but many are repetitive, and they are now timing out as well.  I don't think they realize just how much resources a search will eat up.

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A lot of responsibility has shifted to ThaiTsunami.com by the Ministry of ICT, and thank goodness it's a dot com.

This website is well designed, but the data is still being prepared.

Note how many in the "Missing" have a full name but still have N/A for their country. Even age is zero, and approximate would help. Just getting inputs from the public via internet about THAT could help, where in fact the information is truly not known already...

... because, as you can see, they haven't got anywhere near all the missing persons entered yet (as of the time I'm writing this), nor the data standardized between the different sources (e.g., surname but not first name for some records), nor a way to click on any person's name to get any more detail, even a yes/no field on whether an adequate contact person has been established about a particular missing person.

That will come real soon now, but this is a new direction in which the missing persons project seems to be heading.

Note that inputs are by email to an operator's email address, or a phone call to a prominently displayed number. Not database driven, nor even a contact form. There is limited database driven material. However, the links are database queries, not HTML or text files.

About the images project being discussed here:

There still could be a master photos link for identifying people for where there is a photo but still no identification of them, and as you noted, that requires thumbnails with links to large photos.

Yes, bandwidth is just one of the issues, as database queries and i/o crunching take up CPU and other system resources which turn out to be the bottleneck, not bandwidth, in many cases. I suggest HTML pages to go with the thumbnails and photos, though of course that set of pages can be exported from one database into a tar or zip file before distribution. Moving MySQL databases between systems also requires a bit more skill.

Notably, I am not an expert at this, and you probably know better, so take my advice in the previous paragraph with a big grain of salt.

The images system and anything else can always be distributed and tried on-line on one's own server, to everyone who requests. It seems you all have good systems. However, if it bogs down one system, they can always replace the page with an auto-forward link to another system which can handle the load.

There is a lot being discussed in official circles, but decisions still pending, and a lot of people involved...

Phuket IT City's website is really commendable.

All the best,

Mark

But we must be sure that we don't invent the wheel again. I am seeing a lot of databases online, but no coordination.

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Right, we need to coordinate in order to not waste precious time and effort, create confusion to some users, and possibly create a mess which possibly (from my experience) some webmasters start to abandon (esp. as work starts again next week and we get busy) -- someone must take responsibility for sorting out any problems in a timely way.

I think there are ways that private global citizens of the world like us can help quickly and with a better quality of service. We also need to push some of the officials and guide them. I know -- I've worked with these kinds of people and on disaster systems.

Yesterday (Jan 1) I got in contact with several people, including the aforementioned K. Thaweesak, plus the Project Manager of the official missing persons database, and also the chief of the entire project. This is a project still coming together.

Right now, I think that a website like OneThailand.com which focusses solely and specifically on the disaster, was one of the earliest and now one of the best known websites, and is a well done starting point on the private side, can be a good site for updates, and it already links to this forum.

About bandwidth, especially as regards images, please be aware that you may incur excess bandwidth charges (and I would bet that most bandwidth is by the curious rather than those trying to identify a loved one). Ask your ISP or rack farm owner for permission to go above your quota on a charity basis from them.

Notably, while most identifications may be by systematic DNA comparisons from family, there are still a very large number of identifiable bodies from photos.

Already, missingpersons.or.th slows to a crawl -- and times out -- when operating the database much of the time (thereby impeding official work), and what I am discussing with them is generating reports in HTML and/or plain text to circulate to all interested websites, listing the missing and their details, and a home page which refers the curious to these other websites in order to save bandwidth for officials and people reporting new missing persons or updating records.

After viewing the details of database records, people may be able to add significant information on particular missing people. It's important that the database is as complete as possible.

However, it's most important that the site not be overloaded, and that it continue to function for officials around the world and people making meaningful additions and changes.

Keep in mind that phone calls to embassies and other points of contact are still the #1 way that people inquire, as you may be surprised at how unskilled-at-internet many families are in Europe and elsewhere. Some webmasters currently in Europe might be able to help out with a regular phone line.

I will be back at work on Tuesday, but I run my own business as director so I'm my own boss and am not actually very busy with company work at this time. I've committed myself already to helping the abovementioned people, so I'll update y'all here as soon as relevant things are agreed and materialize. I'm pushing.

All the best,

Mark

it's better than spending one's time watching modern tribal warfare (e.g., football) on New Years Day.

Speak for yourself... LOL...

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We all need a break, and I suppose sports is instinctually one of the most gripping distractions from all this misery coming in on the news, web, and emails. If my Alma Mater were in a sports game, I might feel differently. Perhaps another "gripping" break is a few beers on New Years Day. Then maybe Animal Planet Live in Sukhumvit bars, watching the migrant mating games, that overriding instinct to deposit one's DNA into the pool, reinforced as the #1 instinct over countless generations of those most successful. Then there are the ostentatious status-conscious to entertain us when people-watching. We are a funny species, so much like the rest in these ways.

The Andaman Sea is one of the most beautiful ecosystems and terrains on this living and evolving planet, and one of my most recommended places in the world for vacationers.

Then, a tsunami hits and we are shocked into peoples basic needs, yet dependent on government bureaucrats.

After missing people, it's rebuilding time.

Enjoy the break while it lasts ... as your www.OneThailand.com website is a great piece of work, and I'm sure you need a break, as we all do!

Mr. Vietnam, you are making a fool of yourself by stereotyping and pidgeonholing others.

Countries often have "the best government money can buy", but go and talk to the people and they'll tell you that they often choose between the lessers of two selections in voting.

In my experience, the best people will be found in the Red Cross and Red Crescent society, private NGOs like CARE, the Peace Corps (who are often passed over for beltway bandits...), and the like.

Having worked for charitable organizations, it's striking that the largest *numbers* of donors have been people at the middle and lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum (though the largest donations by a select few sometimes dwarf others).

Anyway, it is easier to criticize others than to come up with a creative solution yourself.

I suggest you become part of the solution, like ThaiVisa.com , the many people here posting useful information, OneThailand.com , and others you can see on the web.

The difference is a spirit of love & working together vs. a spirit of hate and the politics of division. Suggested New Years Resolution.

OK OK, as a number of you have pointed out, the US embassies bad reputation goes back quite a few years and can't be blamed on the Bush regime.

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Not just the embassy.

One obvious solution was to just go buy a new inkjet printer! The Zeer IT shopping center is on the same road as the airport, just a little further down. For that matter, someone could have taxied to any shopping center.

However, my experience in similar matters from the inside is that few people in official circles will go spend $50 out of their own pocket, quick and easy. Despite the fact that they get about $70,000 per year salary from the taxpayer, mostly tax free, and their grade A housing is paid for...

But noooo..., must go thru the official bureaucratic procedures which take time.

Old inkjets are notoriously unreliable (my office goes thru several per year, doesn't waste valuable time going to service centers). Did they just take a spare inkjet that nobody wanted ... and perhaps there was a reason nobody wanted it?

The point here is that there is something we all can do.

Look at all the Thai volunteers aiding tourists, collecting bodies, etc. Are they government workers paid USD $70,000 per year to do that difficult work? No.

What is the American embassy doing in the VIP lounge? I could see the embassy of Luxembourg being put there separate from the big countries with obviously more foreign nationals in need, but why the American embassy? Besides, where are the big signs? Only more big sighs.

Does anyone know what the present status of this is? If it's still a problem, I'LL GO GET A FREAKING INKJET PRINTER AND BRING IT TO THEM if nobody else does.

If we wait for the governments, then we are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

This forum subsection, "Tsunami politics, economics and comments" is a restricted "Protected Forum" so that guest visitors cannot browse it unlike practically all the other ThaiVisa forums. (I.e., those of you here reading it are Registered, Logged In users.)

Is this necessary?

you need to get a copy of that paper either from her or from the court, if you know which court.  That then needs to be translated into English.

it is only a sheet of paper and almost looks like the marrigae certificate.

thats all there is to it

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Right, that is what I actually did, with the translation certified at the Foreign Ministry.

Everyone here is actually right, but in this case, we didn't have the option of having the gentleman appear with his ex-wife at the Amphur with their two marriage certificates, so the court route was the only option.

I went to the amphur, too, but they told me their records had never been updated since the marriage, i.e., the court result had not been cross-referenced to the amphur. so as far as the amphur could tell, the couple was still married, and would be until they brought in their original marriage certificates along with a copy of the court order, which neither had done. The ex-wife was not going to give away her only copy of that document to send to her ex-husband. They instructed me to go to the court and get a certified copy of the judgement, and then go to the Foreign Ministry for a certified translation, and send that to the ex-husband. They told us their years of experience dictated this was sufficient.

It all makes sense, and further research has revealed others who have remarried successfully with this documentation.

All the best!

Unfortunately, I am now overseas for the next three days so will not be that accessible.

However, I do know who is responsible for missingpersons.go.th - and I think his intention is to do very much the same thing.  I was in contact with him yesterday.

My suggestion would be for expat-global to get everything ready and post here - and then I will go to the administrator of missingpersons.or.th and see if he can make it work (and based on my knowledge of this person, if there is anyone who can make things work, it's him).  Plus - there is like a 99% likelihood that he can rope Inet-TH in as well.

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I've got only a few days before I must return to work and direct projects again, so if this is going to roll, the time to do it is in the next 3 days. (Also, 3 days is a long time to a lot of people around the world and the evolving process at this time of crisis.)

I know Dr. Thaweesak Koanantakool way back to 1994 (who became Director of NECTEC about 5 years ago), and have various other relevant contacts, as does my Thai wife from her years as a journalist. We are somewhat outdated, however, and you know how old email addresses are overrun with spam and phone numbers obsolete. We have analyzed this and come up with various plans, and will give this a go Saturday. Any way anyone could save us some time with some phone numbers or direct email addresses would be appreciated. Don't post them here! I can be reached at mark2 at permanent c0m (but ignore all email addresses at my website, too much junk mail, hence the 2 in username ... and phone numbers obsolete).

Here, what I think we need most is VOLUNTEERS of all nationalities, especially those residing in their home country, who are willing to TRANSLATE an essentially 1-page website into their native language, contact their embassies and national governments to present this system in order to assist them, help push to disseminate the information in their own countries by various internet and non-internet channels (promotion and PR), maybe take some phone calls, and try to get the government and NGO people who normally take the calls to use the system.

Please understand that most governments are rather bureaucratic and slow, with top decisionmakers and directors being relative computer neophytes and delegating technical matters to established career government techies who are sometimes not the best at technical implementation as regards user friendliness, practicality, or promoting it in their communities -- especially in a short time. I'm most happy when I'm wrong about this, but historically it's usually dismaying. I've heard and read a lot of complaints, including in CNN and other major media reports.

It's usually best to push along all 3 lines -- government, NGO, and purely private sector.

Right now, it seems that NECTEC is again a leader of the pack in Thailand, with its MissingPersons.or.th

The hospitals on the west coast and a lot of other people have done very good work getting lists of the injured, dead, and found up on the internet.

The big challenge seems to be the missing persons, and identifying the bodies.

It seems that the NECTEC system might be able to handle the bandwidth and the I/O crunching, but I don't really have enough of a basis to say they can. There may be significant surges if/when it hits CNN.com and other news sites. It's best if PR is done country by country. Look what happened to the Red Cross website when it hit CNN. Practically dead for a long time.

I've had super fast websites with a lot of traffic suddenly slow to a crawl and die completely after a national or international news report.

The best thing is to have local websites in each respective country and each respective language, and do just local PR within one's own country with one's own national news sources. Little surges, compared to international news coverage.

Browsable reports in HTML format exported from the NECTEC database may be sufficient, e.g., of all Norwegians on a Norway based website. Just static files updated periodically. Besides missing persons, the same applies to injured, dead, and known OK. These should be checked first. Simple HTML files are the simplest and most likely to succeed way, plus they bog down sponsoring websites less than PHP/SQL.

These static files can be distributed to multiple websites to be promoted by the various webmasters. Must be date and time stamped.

However, inputs of new missing persons is a different matter, as Darknight noted, and I currently think they should be done at missingpersons.or.th only, unless we get ONE established and reliable central database in each country, e.g., in conjunction with a government or established NGO.

The missingpersons.or.th database is missing some important fields, which could be made up for by national databases on-line.

I wish we could always depend on the governments and their established contractors, but my own personal professional experience working in international communications network circles in Washington, D.C., and elsewhere (USAID, UN, NGOs) is that they are too slow and often poorly conceived and implemented, even though it doesn't take a whole lot to do. I've created networks from the ground up in a very short time, brought in during a crisis after the established ones costing orders of magnitude more and taking years to develop couldn't do the job. Sorry, but this is fact, and those who don't learn from history often repeat it. I know there are people reading this forum who can contribute significantly if you just commit to trying, and it's better than spending one's time watching modern tribal warfare (e.g., football) on New Years Day. ;-)

Any critiques and other inputs of this are most welcome. This is the greatest thing about the internet -- it makes people accountable, including government. To have freedom of the press, you no longer need to own one. And YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE with work yourself -- it is easier to criticize others than create oneself, so I think it's best to be constructive. All you need is a computer, an internet connection, some smarts, go-getter initiative, and good intentions. You don't need to be a techie, if you have a good techie friend or colleague. PR can be a meaningful community experience.

Happy New Orbit.

Hopefully we will have a tsunami warning system by the following New Year, before we start hanging out at the edge of the hydrosphere again.

Thailand is a naturally beautiful place with some of the most hospitable indigenous people in the world, as witnessed by the large number of foreigners in Thailand in the worldwide news reports who chose Thailand as their holiday destination. Let's help each other like the hospitable Thais, strengthen the network bonds worldwide, and get to know each other better.

All the best,

Mark

Moving this topic to "general Topics".

/Admin

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Why did you move this out of the Tsunami section and into the General section? We are much more likely to get practical help from visitors of the Tsunami section who are the specific subsection of your visitors interested in this particular topic, but not much from the General ThaiVisa section.

(For example, on my websites offering help on the Tsunami issue, I like directly to the ThaiVisa forum on Tsunami, not the general ThaiVisa forums.)

Will be difficult in getting the info into the database not making it. I agree that the current ones are lacking a lot.

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Right, there would need to be one master database and database administrator(s).

The best I can find is www.missingpersons.or.th and they would be the first people to contact.

Notably, any links to their site for foreigners should go to

http://www.missingpersons.or.th/index.en.html

as otherwise it is incomprehensible and will lose many people.

The database on www.missingpersons.or.th is very well designed. One nitty problem is that you must keep clicking on the "English Version" link in little letters on the somewhat top right. Nonetheless, this is overall a very good website, and seems to be one of the best places to start. It's very fast (!!) and seems to handle the traffic much better than a lot of other sites.

www.missingpersons.or.th is operated by NECTEC (but clicking on their link at the bottom of the page fails, though you can just type www.nectec.or.th/english to get to them, whereby you are given their info@ and webmaster@ nectec contact addresses).

Internet Thailand is an ISP which is volunteering and has a good English language information page, and maybe they could be a mirror since they are a large ISP built for this kind of traffic. I tried to send them a message, but there is no contact link on their English language page, and going to their home page and finding the "Contact Us" link at the bottom, when you try to submit your contact form you get a 404 page does not exist. (They overhauled their website over a month ago, and it still doesn't work well.)

For some other websites, there is no contact email address, and no contact form.

At least NECTEC is in my province (Pathum Thani), so I can resort to "sneaker net" -- driving there and walking in the door. If it's open today. My office is closed, and I finally have some time for this.

My inclination is to work with NECTEC as primary project coordinator. Historically, they have been a leader in Thailand, and I know they have the bandwidth and computer resources to do this, unlike many volunteering websites.

To make this work without crashing our servers, I think we need to distribute databases or HTML files to many cooperating websites at once, but new entries be made directly to www.missingpersons.or.th (and have them improve their home page for user friendliness).

There is a lot of room for improvement in the web/email based information sites as well as telephone based, and the following is an "open source" project suggestion.

Instead of everyone doing a lot of web searches for information on particular people and posting all over causing repetition, the information sought and available (two databases) should be systematically organized into two master databases and all websites should point to these two to every visitor.

Instead of everyone going to a few websites which get overloaded and often crash, there should be a standardized database which can be distributed to various websites to reduce the load.

Then a list of participating websites could be made available.

Having worked for both a national government and also having been involved in UN and NGO international relief efforts, I can say that many government and NGO people do their best, but the very nature of these bureaucracies and approval systems can make them very slow and often the conceptual designs not completely adequate.

In a tragedy like this, the government people should share their database information.

This is not a major effort as regards custom programming, web hosting, and call centers.

The most difficult first step is getting people to move away from browsing and quick postings, and towards an organized, systematic, and simpler process.

The information from various sources needs to be put together. A standard database with many fields is created, and NEW information from various sources (hospitals, embassies, web visitors) is imported into this database. Of course, the data won't come in the same format, but it is easy to reformat it for import, or even to just have someone retype it.

After each round of updates, the master databases can be distributed around to the mirror sites.

As I see it, there can be one database, but there might be two databases: people accounted for (safe, injured, and dead), and missing people.

There might even be a third database for expats who were not known to be in the affected areas but who just want to say "I am OK". For example, even though I work and live in Bangkok, I received emails from people asking if I and my family are all OK. I also run a website here, and I have received requests to contact expats who are supposed to be in Isaan and other places but their relatives want to make sure they are OK and didn't go to the Andaman Sea -- because they haven't contacted home. This third database could be separate in order to reduce the work in the first two. NOTE: CONTACT YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS.

The databases should be simple PHP format and easy to install.

They should export to simple text or very simple HTML files for sites that just want to list the file for a Ctrl-F text search, rather than install the database (which isn't simple for many webmasters, and would lose them). This text version can be distributed, too.

Instead of linking to someone else's website, you can put it on your own and help out with the load. Importantly, on the link, you should state the date and time of the latest update.

As phone call inquiries are in much greater numbers than website inquiries, and most people affected are not as computer literate as us, there will need to be call centers where people can phone and ask a computer operator. The computer operator can just get on the web and go to one of these sites. Or their own site. Or their own hard disk. Or their own printout in alphabetical order.

The fields of the database (and of course you can add to this):

Source(s) of data (particular hospital, embassy, web visitors, etc.)

Source's record number

Assigned record number (by our own database)

Status (safe, injured, dead, missing)

Nationality

Surname

First name

Gender

Birth date in ##-Month-####

Age (don't make people do math on the birth day)

Is there specific information this person was expected to be beside the Andaman Sea? (Yes/No)

Believed regional location at time of tsunami (Phuket, Krabi, etc., or "unknown")

Known specific location (hotel, beach, etc.)

Mobile phone number

POINT OF CONTACT, name

POINT OF CONTACT, email address

POINT OF CONTACT, phone number

End of record, but you can suggest additional fields.

It is important to know that there are many people who don't use the internet at all, and countless more who don't know how to use it well. In many cases, the affected family is depending on a relative, friend, or other associate (such as a call center) to do the searches.

In fact, calling the affected family to ASK if there is an update may not be the best thing to do. These people are often jumping up in hope every time the phone rings. It is often better to have a designated POINT OF CONTACT, and everyone who is worried about their family member should call that point of contact.

We should not get complicated at first, but should get it out.

After this is up and running, then we can look at specific things like generating custom reports, e.g., by nationality.

Again, this is not a complicated project. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. The main challenge will be getting people to switch from browsing & semi-random postings to a disciplined project.

I can do some of these things, but some I cannot do. I run my own two servers, which are already a bit overloaded with multiple clients' websites running on them; nonetheless, I can manage this if we can get a few ISPs to donate servers temporarily -- ISPs in both Thailand and overseas. I cannot do PHP programming and I no longer have a PHP programmer in-house, but I have managed them before. (I can do only HTML, unix stuff, some Photoshop, but mostly project management.)

What do you think?

Who is willing to commit to helping?

We know that some kind of certified document is needed.

Certified where and by whom?

A problem is that the ex-wife lives up-country, she isn't willing to come to Bangkok, and the court which awarded the divorce is located up-country.

Therefore, we are looking for a step-by-step process that will work and not be a big waste of time and effort.

Does anyone know a solution?

Certified where and by whom? What are the steps in the process?

The ex lives way upcountry and does not want to come to Bangkok.

My friend was married to a Thai lady, registered in Thailand, and later she divorced him in the Thai courts based on abandonment and not having seen him for years.

He is overseas, has never even seen the divorce papers, and doesn't want to return to Thailand. He has asked for my assistance while I am here. His ex-wife is cooperative.

Does anyone here know what needs to be done in a situation like this?

Does anyone here by chance have any experience in this?

(This gentleman is an American expat living in a third country. I have received instructions from the American embassy, but I don't have confidence that they are instructing me completely, and would like to double-check everything to make sure the paperwork is accepted in the U.S. or at an overseas embassy. I've been instructed wrongly before by the government ... quite a number of times! Thus, I don't ask "Is [blah blah blah] the way to do it, yes or no?" because it's too easy to just reactively say "yes" rather than have someone outline a reasonable procedure from a blank slate and then compare it to what I've been told elsewhere. I would also think that the requirements would be similar for most Western countries regarding proof of divorce -- by court.)