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mbincm
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From the four pictures Ally posted it was the girl in the pink shirt in the bottom right corner of the bottom right picture they tried to attack and grab her camera. The police intervened quickly and restrained the red guys - only active thing I saw them do all dayRed threats call off gay marchA few red-shirts also tried to break through police security in front of the stage to attack an organiser because they were upset that she had been taking their pictures.
"Chiang Mai people cannot accept this and will stop the parade by all means, even violence."
Thank you both for the photos... but please... stay safe.
Should add I was watching from a safe distance........Heard a few days ago the red shirts were planning to protest but I'd dismissed it as rumour only. There could be no logical reason for doing so. As it was I'd say the reds scored a massive own goal!
Firstly, the cancellation of the parade will give the event much more publicity than would otherwise have been the case. Secondly, far from upholding Lanna culture, the red shirts portrayed Chiang Mai as a city full of selfish intollerant thugs with no respect for the rule of law or the rights of anybody else. Just what CM tourist business needs right now.......
I agree with Thailiban's comments, its a disappointment the parade didn't go ahead, any violence by the reds would have generated a whole load more publicity and made them look even more ridiculous than they did yesterday.
From what I saw most of the mob were paid thugs from the surrounding countryside, real lo-so types who wouldn't know thai culture from lao kao. Far from educated I suspect most would have been hard pressed to write their own name! Pity the police didn't bring the mobile urine testing unit with them, I'm sure that would have been a quick way to reduce their numbers
Though it might have had a similar effect on the parade too........I think the real story has nothing to do with gay parade, but was an excuse for the Red's to be on the streets and get at something they saw as being organised by the yellows - though I can't understand how they make that connection. Guess we'll have to wait for the CM mail to tell us that
I live in the 'surrounding countryside'--just outside a small farming village. The people here are NOT thugs, nor are they uneducated--for example, the son of the older couple who run the local store has a degree from CMU in psychology, and is now in the USA studying for a Master's. The locals do have an awareness of their own culture, and treasure it. As a result, they are not happy about taking the worst (whatever that is, McDonalds, lack of respect for parents, etc) from Western culture and losing the best of their own culture--which many farangs may not even try to understand.
Even if what you, perhaps unwisely, wrote, was true--why do you suppose it would be necessary to be able to 'write your own name' in order to have feelings about whatever is happening in your own society and your rears about that?
Whatever the reason was for the red-shirts' unfortunate involvement, (my own view is that they want the publicity--probably the same reason that they joined in a farmers' protest at City Hall last week), I was there yesterday, and did not see any drunks or obviously stoned people on either side.
Keep a clear head, why don't you, and don't have the Thai people think that all farangs believe as you do. Some of us actually do want to be able to stay here!
okinasan
My jibe at the CM Mail was tongue in cheek (Note the simely), and darling, I have a perfectly clear head. You on the other hand seem to be in some fantsy world in total denial of what is really going on in Thailand. Your final sentence really gives the game away!
If this is the editorial policy of the CM mail its hardly a newspaper anymore is it? Anyway, your photographer was there and its already become clear in this thread where your sympathies lie. Let's see what you have the guts to publish and people can judge for themsleves.
There was nothing in CM Mail this week - except a picture and story of one of the people who opposed this parade and also a lecture on culture in Chiang Mai on the back page - is that a coincidence or what? i think not. we now have the answer where the editorial sympathies lie.
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The people here are NOT thugs,
Great to hear. So are they in support of the thugs or not in support of thugs because the red shirts that stopped the parade are clearly thugs. The pictures tell you that. It sounds to me like you just lamely rationalized thuggish violence as a means to an end. Interesting.
Is this question rhetorical or was it addressed to me?Loaded, it was rhetorical.
most of the gay community now know who to blame - yes the red shirts caused the trouble - but why - because of some gay people who did not want the paradeThis sounds incredibly far fetched. The red shirt thugs showed up to support one side of an internal gay dispute? You expect people to really believe that?
incredible - but definately true - accountable documentation - gay people enlisting red shirts who they support anway
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From the four pictures Ally posted it was the girl in the pink shirt in the bottom right corner of the bottom right picture they tried to attack and grab her camera. The police intervened quickly and restrained the red guys - only active thing I saw them do all dayRed threats call off gay marchA few red-shirts also tried to break through police security in front of the stage to attack an organiser because they were upset that she had been taking their pictures.
"Chiang Mai people cannot accept this and will stop the parade by all means, even violence."
Thank you both for the photos... but please... stay safe.
Should add I was watching from a safe distance........Heard a few days ago the red shirts were planning to protest but I'd dismissed it as rumour only. There could be no logical reason for doing so. As it was I'd say the reds scored a massive own goal!
Firstly, the cancellation of the parade will give the event much more publicity than would otherwise have been the case. Secondly, far from upholding Lanna culture, the red shirts portrayed Chiang Mai as a city full of selfish intollerant thugs with no respect for the rule of law or the rights of anybody else. Just what CM tourist business needs right now.......
I agree with Thailiban's comments, its a disappointment the parade didn't go ahead, any violence by the reds would have generated a whole load more publicity and made them look even more ridiculous than they did yesterday.
From what I saw most of the mob were paid thugs from the surrounding countryside, real lo-so types who wouldn't know thai culture from lao kao. Far from educated I suspect most would have been hard pressed to write their own name! Pity the police didn't bring the mobile urine testing unit with them, I'm sure that would have been a quick way to reduce their numbers
Though it might have had a similar effect on the parade too........I think the real story has nothing to do with gay parade, but was an excuse for the Red's to be on the streets and get at something they saw as being organised by the yellows - though I can't understand how they make that connection. Guess we'll have to wait for the CM mail to tell us that
I live in the 'surrounding countryside'--just outside a small farming village. The people here are NOT thugs, nor are they uneducated--for example, the son of the older couple who run the local store has a degree from CMU in psychology, and is now in the USA studying for a Master's. The locals do have an awareness of their own culture, and treasure it. As a result, they are not happy about taking the worst (whatever that is, McDonalds, lack of respect for parents, etc) from Western culture and losing the best of their own culture--which many farangs may not even try to understand.
Even if what you, perhaps unwisely, wrote, was true--why do you suppose it would be necessary to be able to 'write your own name' in order to have feelings about whatever is happening in your own society and your rears about that?
Whatever the reason was for the red-shirts' unfortunate involvement, (my own view is that they want the publicity--probably the same reason that they joined in a farmers' protest at City Hall last week), I was there yesterday, and did not see any drunks or obviously stoned people on either side.
Keep a clear head, why don't you, and don't have the Thai people think that all farangs believe as you do. Some of us actually do want to be able to stay here!
okinasan
most of the gay community now know who to blame - yes the red shirts caused the trouble - but why - because of some gay people who did not want the parade - and tried to do their best to stop it. If you were there you would have seen how frightening it became. the red shirts got the publicity they wanted - but how much will it cost them and ordinary Thai folk in the end...
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I think most of you are missing the point here, gay parades now days in country’s like Thailand or the UK for that matter are very little to do with gay rights issues, its just a big excuse for a piss up and a party, and what’s wrong with that. Lighten up folks!
Obviously that is NOT true in Thailand if it inspired these red shirted criminal hoodlums to use threatened violence to stop free expression of gay people in Thailand.
The poster who tried to blame PAD for the actions of these violent red Thaksinistas is downright comical. Up is down. Black is white. Gay is straight. No, it was the RED SHIRTS who did this. Clear and simple.
Sure, I am sure some red shirts and plenty of red shirt supporters are also gay. And that is relevant to this shameful repressive action in what way?
if you follow the whole story - it all started up because 2 gay people - one farang and one Thai tried to get the gay parade stopped any way possible, on tv, in the newspapers - making some crazy comments - and then got the red shirts involved.
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^ Is it possible to be both gay and a Red Shirt?
wait for it - they (the two who stopped the parade) will announce shortly they will do a better one...
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Violent red shirted thugs do not represent Northern Thai traditional culture. If these red shirted thugs are THai, who led them?
A shame. Really not typical of Thai tolerance.
The 2 gay people - farang and thai - should congratulate themselves on stopping the parade. they started the campaign against the parade 2 weeks ago and they are responsible - violent red shirt thugs only do what they are told. the two gay people should feel ashamed.
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It's a sad dy when new falnag in town and someone who organized the first trans event in T… attack the good work of Thai people in Chiang mai
It's a sad day indeed when they continue their attack with hate for their fellow LGBT. People who l\put their hears into the first parade and will carry outsuccessfully the second
This person who organized that first trans event should be admired for his past piomeering efforts for all LGBT. However his present activities coupled with the outside who's just arrive in San Sai are creting many difficulties. And for what.
Thes two have put themselves outside the LGBT community acting like pariah, enemies of LGBT people everywhere.
You both should be ashamed of your work and apologize.
the German fellow thinks he can walts in and give money to some poor poeple then show up at a meeting showing a photocopy of the Gay Pride website and demanding to know what right, CM LGBT have to do this? What gall? Are people awaare of the sexy pictures you have put on one website. Some people have viewed threee websites you are a part of and find it very interesting you antics.
to the grandfather of LGBT in Thailand, the pioneer who spoke out when no one would speak, what happened? How could you have gotten so far.
You both have made yourselves the enemies of the local LGBT community. No one likes you. Ask any of the NGO's or the business men in town.
And for what? Dwindiling power? You make us all ashamed.
22 Thai NGOs from across Thailand, and their lawyers, Thais from Bkk Phulket and elsewhere. Local LGBT expat and invited guests will gather for the 2nd Chiang Mai Gay Pride Parade and Party.
We will gather at Buddha Sattan at 5PM. Parade down Chang Klan to Tawan Trendy Mall for the party, show etc which should start at 8PM. All fun loving, positive people are invited to attend.
i disagree. i think the gay pride parade will be bigger than ever, alot more people know about it because of the two individuals mentioned. so they should be thanked.
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CHIANG MAI MAIL AGAINST THAI HUMAN RIGHTS?
Is the English weekly of Chiang Mai opposed to Thai Human Rights? In refusing to publish any info on Gay Pride in CM??? This event is the collaborative effort of 22 Thai NGOs, organized by MPLUS who put on the first Gay Pride event. In Thai visa.com, ( in the forum, Chiang Mai Govenor petitioned ...) someone claiming to be the editor said he or she was on the committee of a German group who were giving money away to poor Thais, but would not cover Gay Pride because of the insider information he or she had. Seems Chiang Mai Mail is showing favoritism to foreign money people and not supporting the basic human rights of Thai people. Perhaps we should all boycott this paper until it changes its elitist policy and supports everyone.
better idea - why not write to [email protected] if enough people write in they will change their mind. the editor's name is Phitsanu Thepthong or the publishers name is Pratheep Malholtra
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We are really fascinated to read, how some people, who organizes the Chiang Mai Gaypride or have been involved in the organizing of it, start a witch hunt against a German farang and a Thai, both gay, who should be responsible to have stopped or try to stop the Gaypride in Chiang Mai.
What a nonsense......
Here some information for all those who know nothing about the Gay Pride, the discussions and the background of the last days and weeks:
The meeting which was held at the municipality where has been discussed about the Chiang Mai Gaypride, was held of the committe of culture and education of the province of Chiang Mai under the led of the vice governor of Chiang Mai.
Invited to that meeting had been the members of the committe, university professors, the thai press, M-Plus as the organizor of the Chiang Mai Gaypride and many other organizations from all over Chiang Mai. The room was filled with about 60 people, M-Plus hat about 10 members in the room.
During the meeting many points had been discussed not only the Chiang Mai Gaypride. The German farang who is the main victim of some agressors in this internet forum, just spoke 2 minutes at this meeting interrupted of the vice governor, even not telling all his arguments up to the end. The Thai person mentioned was not even in the room, as he was in Bangkok to the same time.
About 30 to 40 people spoke during that meeting, also M-Plus members as the organizors of the Chiang Mai Gaypride. Not just one, as far as we remember 3 or 4!!!!
The whole committe had a lot of problems with the concept which was presented of M-Plus in a Power Point demonstration at the municipality. Also there were some unanswered questions in the room which made a lot of people feeling uncomfortable:
1. The organizers could not show a written permittage to hold the Chiang Mai Gaypride, they only told that they have a verbal agreement with the office of the major of Chiang Mai.
2. The website of the Gaypride was only in English. No information for the public in Thai language at all, also for the municipality.
3. Not the Farang has been going to the municipality to bring the discussion up, the committee of culture and education of the province of Chiang Mai did it. They had the Chiang Mai Gaypride on the list of discussion and the Farang was just a guest in that discussion like many others.
4. Some of the sponsors of the Gaypride have not the best reputation. This also was something where a lot of committee members had a problem with. The German farang has to do nothing with that. The truth is that he gave 300 Baht to support the Gaypride.
And one sponsor was listed at the website who never gave any permittage to be a sponsor or to be listet:
Boutique Travel Service as a travel agency never gave permittage to be mentioned as sponsor of the event but was listed, also a point which is until today not explained of the organizer.
5. If all the discussers would have red the newspapers Chiang Mai News or Thai News in the last 2 days they get the explanation about the problems the municipality and the chamber of culture in Chiang Mai has with the event. If you read this newspapers you can see very clear that the Farang you mentioned in your threads is not listed at all, neither the organization and of the Thai person mentioned also.
Some people who are involved in the organizing of the Chiang Mai Gaypride now try to make a witch hunt against two people who have nothing to do with that gaypride. One of them has been invited to the municipality to give a point of view as an expert and
president of a human rights organization. But the main petitioners were the Arayatum Group of Thailand, the Gay Political Group of Thailand, Rainbow Group and the Chamber of Lana Culture under the leadership of Chao Dr. Duan Duan na Chiang Mai.
The business which now a lot of discussers in this thread want to boycott was the main organizer and sponsor of the first Transgender meeting ever in Thailand, where transgenders could explain themselves and give the public information. But M-Plus wants a victim, nothing is easier than to present a German farang. A bad nazi gay guy may be the reincarnation of .....no better forget about it......
So all that what could be red here in this forum is a couple of hate mixed with emotions, comments of people who have no background, now knowledge what was going on, and is going on regarding to that Chiang Mai Gaypride, why people have a problem with it and not only the municipality, but also many other organizations, business people and inhabitants of the city. Please read those newspapers who have the information, if you can not read Thai language, search somebody who can read it and translate for you.
The comment which was published in the Nation Newspaper was totally missing the subject Chiang Mai Gaypride and the discussion about it at all. It was the try with a general view to make and create emotions to all those who have no background information.
All of you have the right to go to the municipality to get a protocoll script of the committee meeting which is talked about all the time. There you can easily read, that all what is mentioned of some people here in the internet is definitely NOT true.
We do not fear the hate of people who do not know us, neither the truth about the Chiang Mai Gaypride discussion, with the municipality etc.
We have no fears to face a discussion with M-Plus, the organizers of the gay pride and all those who create the hate, as we have nothing to do with what is mentioned in this thread.
But one thing is naughty and dangerous: To talk bad about people when not knowing them, to tell things some people have heard in any bar or where ever. And finally when people have only information about something of one side, this is poor.
We have copied the statements of this thread and we think about going to the public to explain again together with municipality and the department of culture, also in English language, what has happened in the past days and weeks. Also that the two people attacked in this thread have almost totally nothing to do with the decission of the Committees of Culture, the civil servants of the municipality of Chiang Mai to recommend the governor to POSTPONE the Chiang Mai Gaypride, to bring all the groups together on a table to organize the event well, to have no supporters with not the best reputation and finally not to violate against culture and laws.
With the very best regards:
Those two people the German farang and the Thai, both gay, who have been attacked in this thread all the time without any good reason.
that was a lot of nothing. explain why you were invited - and not one of the hundred farang who have alot more insight into Chiang Mai, and who have been here many many years. you were invited because you started it all up - be honest
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The farang who is trying to cancel the parade is the president of a group called CHIANG MAI FREUNDES and the editor of the CHIANG MAI MAIL is on the board...that's why!
Firstly, the name of the fundraising group you are referring to is Thailandfreunde NV , NOT Chiang Mai FREUNDES. The group, over the last few months, have donated a large amount of money to various children's charities in this city.
The Editor of the Chiang Mai Mail is indeed, voluntarily helping that organisation with its local publicity in the paper, as a committee member elected for that reason. She has publicised in this manner many other organisations, and has, very recently and on former occasions, publicised Mplus by editing and placing received texts.
The reason why there have been no references to the gay parade in last two issues of the Chiang Mai Mail is that a great deal of unnecessary unpleasantness has been generated by this issue, with very little logic or understanding being shown, particularly on this forum. The paper's editor feels that readers, even if presented with both sides of the story, of which its editor is well aware, might just get a little bored with 'he says this' 'he says that', plus all kinds of ill-considered accusations, from whichever side they originated.
Obviously, I do not know, nor do I wish to know, who you are, but your unequivocal statement that the reason that no reference has been made in the CM Mail to the present shenanigans is because the paper's editor is involved with TF causes a great deal of offence.
How do I know all this? Because I am the editor of the Chiang Mai Mail, and the person whom you accused.
Okinasan
however much the Thailandfreunde NV have donated to charity - and they should be applauded for that - they should not have cause so much trouble in the Gay community - and especially as they are Gay themselves. I agree with the earlier comment - spend your Pink Pound wisely - not supporting people who have managed to caused Gay Pride to be prohibited - then they will hopefully learn.
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Can we stay more focused on the topic, and refrain from personal remarks? Thank you.
agreed - lets focus on the chiang mai pride. i spoke to MPlus today and they are still planning for a parade - ensuring everyone remains polite. lets pass the word out. the parade is set to go. everyone gay str8 or inbetween are welcome - february 21
Good Idea. I just got my copy of the local paper, no mention of the Gay Pride or the other events connected with it. Anyone know the reasons why?. Is the paper homophobic?, or is there another reason?.
Alll local tourist mags we missed because of editorial deadlines. CM Mail,,, I dont know.
i have just heard that the Gay Pride has been cancelled. What a shame. I hope the two gay people who managed to get it cancelled (one Thai and one farang) feel satisfied. They should never have gone to the authorities. Own goal or what!.
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I cannot get to sleep no matter how tired I am. For years now, taking Ambien, Ambien CR and Tamazapam 5 times a week. And even then they don't put me to sleep.
I finally realized it IS affecting my health. I'm tired all day long.
I know Ram and Suan Doc both have sleep clinics.
Question is: Has anyone had a sleep study done at either of these two hospitals?
What was the benefit - if any?
Approximate cost?
i am not a doctor - so i cannot give any medical advise - however i had the same problem - not being able to sleep - so i started taking Melatonin - it is a natural herb basis - or i think it is - anyway it is non addictive - maybe it can work for you. also try taking up reading a book - then you read until you are really tired - then you sleep. worked for me........
Any other info/advice will be well taken.
Thanks.
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Can we stay more focused on the topic, and refrain from personal remarks? Thank you.
agreed - lets focus on the chiang mai pride. i spoke to MPlus today and they are still planning for a parade - ensuring everyone remains polite. lets pass the word out. the parade is set to go. everyone gay str8 or inbetween are welcome - february 21
Good Idea. I just got my copy of the local paper, no mention of the Gay Pride or the other events connected with it. Anyone know the reasons why?. Is the paper homophobic?, or is there another reason?.
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You don't honestly think that any sponsoring organisation will truthfully confirm if my worst suspicions about yet another sordid 'gay pride' event are true? I'll wait for the pictures from this year's event; that's the most reliable way to judge towards what sort of crowd the event is pitched and by whom. If it's convincing, maybe I'll go next year.
When is the Gay Pride? I heard rumors that it was cancelled? my friends told me there is a benefit on Febraury 14, any ideas where. As a gay man i think we, all gay and lesbian and their friends, should support this. please advise
Should add I was watching from a safe distance........
Though it might have had a similar effect on the parade too........
Governor Petitioned To Ban The Second Chiang Mai Gay Pride Parade
in Chiang Mai
Posted
If Gay Natee had not gone to the Authorities, not published in the Thai Press, and not gone on the Television about the monks who behalf inproperly - then the red shirts would not have protested. the red shirt tanoys quoted Gay Natee at the parade. Gay Natee should say sorry to all those Thai organisers who spent months working on this parade. Gay Natee was held in high regard for the amount of good work he did in the past, however - he has lost a great amount of respect.