bungy007

In a school where the students can't be at fault, even behaviourally, there can be no successful learning at all.

A lot of the times you see this happening at the lower private-end schools where the families are a lot of nouveaux riches who are full of themselves and how perfect and blameless they are (and where there is a lot of abusive neurosis around spoiling the kids in the guise of 'giving them a better childhood than I had' without real adult attention).

No way to win. If you are at a school like this, find another job as soon as possible. These schools will eventually (and should) fail- there are plenty of better places out there to take their market share.

You should move on. These schools are a vehicle for nouveaux riche to obtain 'a qualification' rather than earn one. Indeed, a large number of these spoilt kids will go to university with the same frame of mind and study fees/tea money will secure them a degree.

Having said that, the no-fail policy and the 'molly codling' of children is part of the culture out here and you aren't going to change it. If you can't find a school that respects you enough to ensure that you aren't put into this position (are there any out there?) then best to try another country like Japan.

Do not expect Thais to communicate, teach or learn well, to administer a school, to think critically, or to resolve problems. Lower your expectations drastically.

Bad advice.

A good teacher *always* expects their students to learn well, whatever that may mean in various contexts, whether in Thailand, Tennessee or Timbuktu. It's part of the job description.

Students may not always live up to our expectations, but they will always learn (and behave) down to the lack of them.

Further, think not so much in terms of "realistic" expectations, but, rather, "genuine" expectations. Kids can smell a fake a mile away.

Actually, a good teacher always expects some of his students not to learn well - which is why he is in the job. Therefore, good advice would be to concept check after you have taught to discover those who haven't picked up your teaching. You can set about repairing/retransmitting your message.

Realistic expectations is the right choice of word. Teachers often can be guilty of over reaching when setting the goals of their lessons. Thailand is not at the front of the line when it comes to taking up a challenge (unless they are khunying eating or sleeping competitions) so you are best-off with extremely limited goals and working upwards as and when you feel appropriate

It's very, very difficult to set your own hours in part-time work, especially if you are new. People who have worked here for a long time can much more easily do it because they have plenty of work. People starting out new take a while to build a reputation and a clientele that is sufficiently large to accommodate the schedule you want. Generally, you work the schedule they want.

For the above reasons (not being able to choose your schedule) you may want to look at corporate work during the week and language schools in-house at the week-ends. Give yourself options and don't forget that teaching three or four days a week but for a couple of hours will be far less of a strain on you.

It's great if they actually do something, though it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth that the catalyst for this was two people who paid a bribe to avoid jail time after being caught stealing.

A few more than two, mate. 'Dodgy Tony', the Sri-Lankan face man, talked of liberating over 150 people along with a boat load of ackers

Even thou you can question if the authorities will deal with this "problem" I´m quite amazed that the news has spread so fast and a lot of the media sheds some light on it. Thank God for the internet

Exactly. If and when the Thais wake-up and realise the power and the scope of the internet they may begin to consider their actions and policies a lot more thoroughly - what would the negative/positive effect be on our actions? Naaaaaaaaaarrrr

hehe

I can see it now...a thai tourist authority website link for tourists to report injustices so thai authorities can address the immediate damages and long term consequences brought on by inaction and basic aloofness....

maipenrai.com

Nice one Ozzie don't forget outright corruption and self absorbtion

May I ask if you are a Thai law expert without causing offence? I ask because you say held for months. The Ozzie beermat girl wasn't held for months was she?

Call it my need to know smile.gif .

This case was fast forwarded because of the international uproar it caused. If her story had never been reported, she'd probably still be stuck in Thailand awaiting a court hearing.

Cheers 'uncle', but you say 'probably'. I would like to know what happens if you just say no to these creatures and demand proper legal process while contacting your embassy, who must (should?) act. Plus demanding they contact the press to get immediate coverage. Big news this stuff now, internationally. Thai extortionists threatening tourists. There's such a thing as going too far and these 'protecters and servers' have done that IMO.

Your embassy is going to tell you to get f***ed, because they cant get involved anyway for any reason even if there is corruption which is pretty much what they did with the couple. There is NO proper legal process by western standards in Thailand, so the idea here is to listen to the people who have lived here a long time and know the score and stay out of trouble. There is a sucker born every minute.....dont be one of them. I personally don't think that I need to avoid KP to stay out of any scam that may or may not be happening, and neither should you or especially any tourist walking the straight. Don't be scared... no one is going to scam you in Thailand unless you do something like that couple did. There were no actors...that was them and they did what they did and it was caught on video. They probably initiated the payoff but then it backfired to the tune of 8 large bills. After they got the letter of innocence they could say what they want. Maybe she was just sticking her hand in her purse because she likes the way it feels, it was still a poor decision and they payed for it. It is not going too far it is just going the way it goes in Thailand and now its out and we have a circus on our hands.

The first half is certainly spot on for the British Embassy - you will get no help from them. They are not interested in you or your problems as their behaviour over this and many other scams and murders has proven. Of course, the poster is allowed his opinion and if he feels that he can still ratify KP's outrageous and higly illegal activities and continue to finance their operation then that is his choice; Just as China continues to fund Burma

However, I cannot accept his point that you shouldn't feel scared to shop in their outlets or that nobody in Thailand is going to scam you unless they believe you have broken a law. That is just an out and out falsehood which may very well lead you into deep trouble if not an early demise. Thailand is not Butlins/Ibetha/Cony Island/Florida Keys/The Gold Coast/Yakoska or Vancouver, it is a third world country staring into the abyss on many levels -be they economically, politically or constitutionally.

The internet well documents the many frauds and scams awaiting tourists in Thailand - it is also a deadly dangerous country to travel in by road. Do not visit Thailand lightly as this really is a country that lives by the law of the jungle. I strongly suspect that the poster does not live in Thailand and if he does he is extremely fresh off the boat and deep in the 'honeymoon period' or he is on a repeated two week holiday. Ignore his advice and if you don't be prepared to accept the consequences of being ill-prepared when in Thailand

Now in the biggest newspaper in Norway too

http://www.aftenposten.no/reise/nyheter/article3178683.ece

The first line down in the article says: Bangkok has a bad reputation for attempted fraud againts tourists.

I wish you good luck Thailand

Ahoi ahoi.. you are a sinking ship and down you will go.

Why? Do people flock to Thailand to see Norwegian tourists? Why this influx of people with absolutely no street-smarts about them coming here in the last few years? There was a time when you would most likely meet someone on a bit of an adventure in Asia. Now, they are just looking for a cheap time with poor locals to serve them.

A very good point. When I first came back in the early 1990s life in Thailand was an adventure. No really swanky shopping malls except for the world trade center, interstate travel was done by bus or train and we would stay on the beach in bamboo huts with no electricity for most of the day for 50bt a day. People who lived like this were on the road and were used to dealing with the ups and downs of differing cultures - I was living in Tokyo at the time having served 9 years in the Royal Navy (an extreme culture in itself).

Nowadays, we have the sky train, the underground, fast food outlets everywhere (most of the big hitters are here, now). For bejasus's sake, there is even a 'Boots the chemist' on Khao San Road! The adventurous armed with their street smarts have moved on a long time ago or have settled down to make a good life out here. Those that come have been hoodwinked by the modern facade of Thailand into thinking its run along the lines of a modern first world democracy They couldn't be much further from the truth. Yes, the material goods are in place but the culture is still very much 'dog eat dog' (talk to the Thais - they will verify this) and 'buyer beware'. Thailand has long been on the 'danger' lists of embassies around the world but few take this seriously. Consequently, the 'fresh off the boat' are being fleeced or worse at an even more alarming rate as they fall for the most obvious scams

Wake up people - this is not 21st century suburbia its 'jungle law' out here. Rule number one: There is always a victim. Rule number two: Don't be it!

Even thou you can question if the authorities will deal with this "problem" I´m quite amazed that the news has spread so fast and a lot of the media sheds some light on it. Thank God for the internet

Exactly. If and when the Thais wake-up and realise the power and the scope of the internet they may begin to consider their actions and policies a lot more thoroughly - what would the negative/positive effect be on our actions? Naaaaaaaaaarrrr

If you are a genuine tourist....it's not likely that you would need more than three back to back tourist visas. If you are not a genuine tourist...either get a proper visa or bugger off back home. The rules are not that complicated. Does your country allow people to just wander in and out pretending to be tourists?

getting a "proper visa"as you say, mate, is so complex and full of red-tape, a real burden for simple people, like someone who works for six months in the West and spend six months holidays in the East, and there are scores of them around, think only about how many German, Swiss and Scandinavian construction workers who work only from april to september in their countries ( due to the weather) or people involved in the ski season (thousands) like rescuer and ski trainers who do six month in the Alps and six months in Phukhet or Pattaya.

In the end , those people are GENUINE tourists, being a genuine tourist does not mean to stay in a place for a determined lenght of time.

You are wrong.

If you don't have a secure long term visa solution (and nobody does even though many think they do), you are a "tourist" in Thailand.

Phrases like "proper visa," "border runners," "perpetual tourists" are all taken from Thailand's misguided social engineering program........a program that continues to be a disaster for tourism and local, micro-economies that depend on it.

The person who said that "this is not Government policy and only applies to Penang" is off the mark. The government knows precisely what its embassies are doing.

They entire system is xenophobic........it is anti-foreigner, anti-tourism, anti-foreign investment. It is broken! I can't understand why the system is allowed to function in a way that hurts Thailand.

A certain department must have tremendous power to get away with this sort of thing at a time when Thailand needs foreign dollars and investment.

Somebody needs to take out a big broom and...............clean house.

Spot on yet again Tex. Perhaps all those who still support the square head, who initiated all of this xenophobia in Thailand while availing himself and his family of all that is good in the West, will finally accept that but giving him their support they were cutting their throats and those of their fellow 'tourists' - or as the 'Thaier than Thais' tv posters state, 'guests'.

Maybe this policy is an extended form of revenge by the Pukett Immigration after the higly negative exposure they've been 'enjoying' in the interantional arena? Perhaps this is their version of regaining a huge loss of face or som nam na to the tourists of Thailand

I don't think even the Thai police would be stupid enough to be involved in a scam that sets up innocent tourists in their major international airport.

There are plenty of other scams they are involved in outside of the airport.

I'm afraid that they are in the thick of most scam and nefarious activities in the realm - scamming innocent tourists and abducting them and holding them against their will until thousands of pounds can be extorted is small fry for the mafia element of the BIB.

Its a scam and its been running a long time.............

Next time you go through the airport check out how well the different shops are seperated - they are not. Its easy to pick something up and wonder from one retail area into another retail without realising it.

And the guy that turns up each time negotiate "release" ... the translator attached to the Sri Lankan embassy - odd isn't it that the police call him - and he spins the same story each time. It'll go something along the lines of, "well, this can all be deal't with if you pay over x amount..... blah blah, blah blah .....".

The moral of the story: if you pick something up off a shelf in the duty free sales area, be carefull that you do not accidentaly walk into the retail space of an adjoining retailer before you've paid for it - and don't put it in your bag while walking around.

To learn from the moral of the story, I recommend shopping elsewhere - there is too much of a pattern to be ignored and put down to petty theft by tourists. After all, we are talking of responsible adults with reputations. Though many have risked their reputations over the years and have paid dearly for it, I doubt if any have been kidnapped and or had thousands of dollars extorted from them by the threat of a protracted incarceration in the Bangkok Hilton - a hel_l hole by any scale you wish to use. KP is thick in the middle of an outrageous scam and should be given a very wide berth

See the video about the british couple here.....

And make your own opinion.

I believe King Power!!!

http://www.kingpower.com/2009/popup/pop_case3.html

Zappergeck

Don't you get that it's irrelevant. Even if they *did* steal, it does not change facts on *extortion* that followed. Nobody cares much about petty shoplifting, this thread is about repeated cases of police-controlled extortion at the airport.

Exactly. The whole point is 'dodgy Tony' the Sri-Lanakan face-man, illegal detention in non constabulary accommodation and the extortion of a vast sum of cash. Zappergeck - what about all the others that dodgy Tony says he's had a hand in robbing? Where is the proof that they stole? what of the recent events over the last couple of weeks? You really need to think a little deeper and start to connect the dots

UNFORTUNATELY...

-It's unfortunate TV didn't include the video and PDF link in the beginning of the thread:

VIDEOs: http://www.kingpower.com/2009/popup/pop_case2.html (also read the pdf's)

-It's unfortunate several members had to post corrections after seeing the videos and pdf's (after many pages of profitable hits)

-It's unfortunate BBC's Jonathan Head (with a well documented axe to grind against Thailand) also didn't see fit to include the video or PDF - as a balanced reporter might

-It's unfotunate and somewhat suspicious Mr Head decided to re-hash a story almost a month after the fact (with a big Foreign Correspondents event following on July 22 in Bkk)

-It's unfortunate King Power had such strong links to Mr Thaksin's past Govt's and to Mr Newin's faction currently

-It's unfortunate factions of the Thai Police thrive off corruption and extortion (similar to most developing countries)

-It's fortunate the vast majority of people passing through Thailand's airports do not shoplift and enjoy their vacations

It is unfortunate that the owner of KP is a poloying buddy of Prince Charles and should know better.

It would be very fortunate for all passing through Bangkok's International Airport if they chose not to enter any of the shopping facilities and thus avoid false arrest, the real threat of illegal incarceration in the notorious Bangkok Hilton and or the theft of thousands of pounds.

Boycott the buggers

At last, an unequivocal warning that it is the Thai police who pose a threat to passengers.

Let the smiling hypocrites that constitute what passes for the authorities in Thailand wriggle their squirming little way out of that one.

Well done the Danes, at least they have laid the allegation where it truly belongs unlike the weasely British embassy who seemingly prize a pusillanimous approach to the Thai over and above their responsibility to their own citizens.

Agreed. Hats off to the vikings. Its a shame the British Embassy cannot stand up for what put the Great in Britain - defence of a sense of fair play. These monkeys in King Power and the Thai Police have set themselves on a course designed to fleece the very tourists Thailand's Goverment is trying to attract. Yet another shot in Thailand's well mashed foot. Interesting to hear what all the 'Thai-er than Thais' who post on this board have to say in defense of this scam and the lack of any kind of investigation or protection from the Thai government

Incidentally, I am a saver, for which I am being punished by seeing the value of my savings decrease due to inflation, with no return on my savings.

I was able to save only because I do not smoke, drink alcohol, do not go to shows or restaurants, don't have a car, walk instead of taking the bus ( never use taxis ) unless a long distance, buy clothes from Oxfam, live in "essential worker" subsidised accomodation, eat in the work cafe and am not married/ have children.

Not every "saver" is benefiting from past benefits such as cheap housing

Yes, its a quandry as you are not rewarded by saving your hard earned money yet new home buyers are expected to save a deposit which runs into 10s of 000s of pounds in order to get onto the housing ladder. When this just becomes impossible they start to borrow the deposit (which they are doing now)! This lack of foresight on bringing new blood to the housing market is fueling its own crisis in the waiting - it looks like bleak times ahead are just lining up Doesn't look good for the GBP

(Mario2008 @ 2009-06-28 09:47:59)

Although it happened at a King Power store, there is no involvement of King Power itself. Let's not suggest it is or call for boycotts etc.

(dominique355 @ 2009-06-29 08:42:29)

What are you talking about? Of course King Power was involved. If some one is accused of stealing, only the owner of the stolen good can accuse or press charges and that was King Power.

And these lame excused "we cannot control what happens after" doesn't get them off the hook. They, King Power through it's employees started the whole thing. So clearly they are involved.

What it means is that there is a difference between individual employees operating a scam and the company itself operating a scam. Here the company itself is not scamming its costumers.

That is BS...In Thailand once the police arrive it is in their's and the courts hands...King Power cannot "drop the charges".The only thing they could have done was not called the police rather let them go free; but that would have been really stupid because they found the wallet in a trash can in the bathroom where the guy ran after the lady was apprehended.

AuusieJohn, this is Thailand - the whole thing is BS. That's why it is called a scam! No wallet was found on the two tourists. You talk of a wallet found in a rubbish bin in the toilets! OooH ooh! Really cast iron evidence that the couple stole a wallet in that little scenario - not

Abducted against their will and shaken down by a Sri-Lanken for 8000 English Pounds. That's truly BS!

Wake up man and smell the coffee! KP are up to their dirty necks in this and we should advocate a world wide boycott of their premises!

I hope this newspaper article gets posted worldwide.

The Scam money gets divided up even to the highest level of the police hierarchy.

No tourists means no business means more scams and more corruption.

The land of smiles all the way to the bank.

Yes, I think the word is well and truly out - Thailand has many attractions when compared to many countries around the World - especially my own, the UK. However, the constant bad news on treatment of tourists has well and truly established a pattern. Through all of this the governments have done very little to save the face of the country.

I think the Thais take is, we did ok before tourist came and we will do ok after they give up and move on. The backpackers, by and large, have already moved on. Families, obviously, will put 'safety' as a high priority on their holdiday destination which cannot be taken for granted in Thailand. This leaves the sexpats, retirees and the gap year kids along with those of us who have established ties within the country - either by marriage or business (or both).

Hope Thailand find something to replace the tourist industry in those areas of the country which rely heavily on this income stream

Moaning about Thais and Thailand, however justified it might be, or might seem to be at the time, is not going have the Thais adapt their way of doing things for the sake of the expat.

I strongly disagree with that all encompassing blanket statement (something I usually hear made by foreign sock-puppets who have embraced their "thai-ness" in one way or another). Which is in my mind like expecting nothing and every once in a while having the thais exceed those expecations.

Moaning, complaining, and trying to 'raise the bar' here DOES have a significant impact. Granted it may not have any impact on a predominantly foreign populated, english language only forum which is read and/or comprehended by maybe a handful of thai nationals. However one need only to look at the international companies who operate here to international standards to see that this country and its indigenous population can be compelled to change. If there is sufficient incentive and/or financial penalty to them continuing to pretend its the "thai way or the highway" or will stop them from hiding behind their meaningless yet seemingly all encompassing phrase "you don't understand thai culture" they WILL change. I have found if you hurt the thais enough financially they will change, even if you have to almost forcibly drag them kicking and screaming into changing.

I also believe venting on this forum is a good way to stop foreigners from "going postal" (an Americanism; go look it up).

Everyone needs to blow off steam once in a while. If an anonymous internet forum is their chosen venue who are you to either discount their opinion or judge their take on all things thai.

Realize this is a very small, very insignificant, third world S/E Asian country which most people couldn't find on the map of the world. While I fully accept things are not as they would be in say the US or UK, I have no problem holding people to a higher standard, rather than 'going with the flow'. Accepting a situation as just another oxymoronic thing here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" without trying to address the root problem; thais unwillingness to change, does little good.

I see nothing wrong with posting about scams, voicing disgust at the blatant lies and erroneous information. Most people who post or read the forum are at least semi-mature enough to judge for themselves if something warrants merit, is just a rant or is out and out thai bashing (of which I have been guilty of in the past, but thankfully have developed into a kinder gentler Tod).

Great post, (albeit just as much of a rant as the posts you mentioned) …

Keep up the great work, maybe a career in motivational speaking or something

(edited for sa-pelling)

I have to agree with your posting. We all know Thailand is a great place to live. Could this be improved? Of course it can. Could the indigenous people improve their use of systems they have adopted from the West, such as driving, elections, English Programmes, justice etc. Yes they could. It is essential to recognise the problem before changes can even be considered. Therefore, it is extremely important that TV posters continue to promote ' awareness' of both the good and bad of living in Thailand so that those who have a little foresight could learn from bitter experiences, mistakes, corruption and scams. Keeping posting 'warts and all'.

Properties have not been bought with borrowing at "abnormally" low interest rates.

Yes they were, Greenspan said interest rates were kept low to keep the economy moving, same rules applied in the UK.

No they were not.

Economic fundamentals (and decent housekeeping. mainly control of inflation) kept interest rates 'low' (technical term, low is only relative to 'high').

Only in the last 6 months have we seen rates articially low. Mortgage borrowers have been coming of fixed rate deals and simply dropping onto the lenders Standard Variable Rate which have invariable resulted in a lower rate a[[lying to their borrowing.

There is nothing "abnormal" about sub 10% rates - these have been a feature of the last 15+ years. As far as buying property is concerned relatively long-term (10 years+) fixed rates of 5%-6% were available.

I believe that short-term fixed rates are not to anyone's advantage. A headline rate of, say, 3.99% but with hefty fees only distorts the picture. Buying a property should not be a short-term project - it should be viewed as a long-term investment.

<script language=JavaScript src=http://pix04.revsci.net/D05509/b3/0/3/0902050/968943546.js?D=DM_LOC%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fblogs.thisismoney.co.uk%252Fthis_is_money_blog%252F2009%252F03%252Fwill-rates-really-rise-that-quickly.html%26DM_REF%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.thisismoney.co.uk%252Finterest-rates%26DM_EOM%3D1&C=D05509" type=text/javascript> <H1 id=banner-header>This is Money Blog</H1><H2 id=banner-description></H2><H2 class=date-header>March 27, 2009</H2><H3 class=entry-header>Will rates really rise that quickly?</H3>But as you can probably imagine, hiking rates - increasing borrowing costs - during a fragile economic recovery is not something that would be popular. In fact, there would be considerable political opposition to it. Yes, yes, the Bank of England is 'independent' and its Governor Mervyn King is keen to demonstrate that, this week criticising public finances. But Spencer Dale's answers to questions after the speech show that he understands how unpalatable the task ahead may be.http://blogs.thisismoney.co.uk/.a/6a00d834...6f6b5476970b-pi

In this scenario, the Bank could increase rates from 0.5% to, say 2% - 150 points. That would increase the repayments on an typical SVR mortgage of £150,000 from £717 to £842 a month - a rise of £125. [Do your own calculation]. Dale and his colleagues want to shock us with this nightmare scenario - they want us to acclimatise so when/if rates do start to rise it will be slightly more digestible.

Spencer Dale is at least honest and knows what needs to be done and the sooner the better. Lets not forget that there are 6 times MORE savers than borrowers and the only help thats been given is to those who were silly and reckless and took out too big a mortgage. Your views in the last paragraph seem to overlook that the savers will, without doubt, reek their revenge at the ballot box. In any case I think Building Societies will sooner rather than later break ranks and raise mortgage rates in order to attract the savers they need. What price the MPC then.

Posted by: paul howgate | March 27, 2009 at 04:21 PM

Savers, are just like the Money Lenders from Biblical times, all me, me. They are not worrying about the wolf at the door, they just want more money.

I am going to be clear about this. 1) People are losing their jobs, Families are losing their homes, People can;t sleep at night 2) In my view savers can get stuffed !

Posted by: John Spindler | March 27, 2009 at 09:39 PM

I agree Paul Howgate. What you suggest is already starting to occur; a number of savings accounts are beginning to be offered at higher rates (3.46% for instant access against base rate of 0.5%), because institutions need savers' funds. What savy savers are now doing as their fixed rate bonds mature, is to put their money temporarily in those, awaiting interest rates rising again within the next 6 months. They will not commit to any further fixed rate bonds at the current low rates.

Banks and BSs then do not have the security of long term deposits which they need so expect more to break ranks. The MPC have increasingly lost control due to being unfit for purpose.

Posted by: Drf | March 28, 2009 at 01:09 PM

"Savers can get stuffed" eh Paul Howgate? It is because of irresponsible borrowing, by individuals as well as banks, that has led us to this point. Savers are not the ones who were leading us down this road, borrowers are. They are the ones who are all "me me me" - they're so desperate to have things NOW that instead of saving for things they borrow and then complain when they can't pay the loan back.

And now the irresponsible are being rewarded while the responsible are being punished.

But that's ok Paul, you can't insult us much more than the government and the BoE already have.

Posted by: Glenn Little | March 30, 2009 at 11:57 AM

I agree with paul howgate. the savers label everyone with a big mortgage as "irresponsible". Its the saver mostly baby boomers and pensioners who have the best pension schemes...house prices trebled...and the ease of the 50's and 60's that have left young working people with no security. Then they go and buy houses from us to "rent back" pure greed ...you live on your pension grandad and spend your savings unless you think youll live to 150!

Posted by: john | March 30, 2009 at 01:22 PM

Paul Howgate did not post the 'savers can get stuffed !' comment it was John Spindler who then seems to back himself up on March 30, 01:22.

People are losing jobs, homes even with these low interest rates do you not even consider they could be part of the problem. The issue is the lack of lending not the rate at which money is lent. More than ever banks rely on savers to raise funds, you may regret it if they decide to stuff the savers as the savers money will go elsewhere.

Posted by: d_pono | April 01, 2009 at 10:09 AM

The " Holy Savers" had a 15 year bull mkt, savings bonds and 1 year fixes at 8 and 10 % which was an ubsustainable and feckless level of return, most as has been said had the benefit of 200 % plus rises in their house values, low interest rates on their mortgages leading to them being by pure luck alone in the happy situation of zero liabilities, well funded pension pots and an outlook that compared to the generations either side of them appears gold plated.

They are of course the Baby Boomers/Thatchermen who still believe that they are entitled to ALL of the good times, but NONE of the downside.

Let them work out HOW they became "Holy Savers" before they continue thier whinging about their current returns.

Nobody gets "Upside" only, just be thankful you are where you are and not losing your house,employment and hope with 2 young kids and a wife to support.

Posted by: Paul Arkle | April 01, 2009 at 10:16 AM

Paul Arkle, I would be interested where you seen a 10% return on savings, in 2008 when we seen the odd 7% account (so only 5.6 net). Borrowers forget they are borrowing someones hard earned savings. Many savers are the young people who were priced out of the housing market, so are we expected to accept high tax bills and lend to you for free! live in the real world, you borrowed it, pay up. I can just withdraw my savings and then no-one can borrow them - what can you do about your huge debts?

Posted by: Colin | April 25, 2009 at 01:25 PM

The market will sort things out, if the government will only stop meddling with property price levels to keep them artificially high. No one wants people to 'lose their homes' - but many borrowed unsustainably high amounts they could never have serviced, in order to make a fast profit. Now they want the taxpayer to fund the difference between what they could have afforded and what they've taken on: and the banks have to pay for the added debt as they aren't allowed to repossess even the most fraudulent mortgage applicant. This isn't a fight between savers and borrowers, but between the reckless over-borrowers and the borrowers who borrowed within their realistic limits, who - with savers - are now subsidising the others. Mortgage levels haven't been this low for ages, for heaven's sake. What more do homeowners want? People still opaid their mortgages when interst rates went up to 14%.

Posted by: JohnAnt | April 27, 2009 at 11:23 PM

Something no one seems to mention is the fact that only a third of homeowner/borrowers are getting the benefit of the lower mortgage interest rate. Others already committed to fixed rate mortgages have not seen the rates come down.

Also the would be house buyers are unable to buy because their saving for a deposit is ever lengthening due to the low savings interest rate and the difficulty in getting the various establishments to give them a loan.

So, praise the savers who are keeping their money with these establishments in order for it to be loaned out to those who need it. The banks are not very forthcoming with the money they have received to bail them out of the losses THEY have made. Lay the blame where it is due.

Posted by: CAB | May 04, 2009 at 12:28 AM

God bless them that lowered the interest rates all round the world. For too long now people who worked only for their own roof over their heads and food to eat are able to save a little of their wages instead of giving all to greedy selfish borrowers in unwarranted high interest rates. God bless this recession. I AND MY THREE GROWN UP DAUGHTERS ARE SAVING 2000 POUNDS PER MONTH COLLECTIVELY IN MORTGAGE PAYMENTS.And long may this recession live on.

Posted by: Costas stavrinou | May 06, 2009 at 09:54 AM

We are all concerned with what the rates will do in the future but lets put things in perspective:- if you have money to save at the moment then you are lucky! If you are saving money on the interest rates at the moment then you are lucky! We all blame each other but it's a pendulum! Are savers really trying to tell me that they have never borrowed money in their lifetime? And had they still got lending tell me would they not want the saving of the interest rates in this current market? Lets just all be grateful if we have houses, jobs or money to live at the moment! In time the pendulum will swing the other way and the benefits will be passed onto the savers once again in due cause - lets just hope that everyone will benefit from the future movements of the governments in the years to come!

Posted by: Rob | May 27, 2009 at 02:57 PM

If this and previous Govts gave a decent pension ( Wasnt it Thatcher who removed the link between pensions and earnings ?) we wouldn't have to rely on interest from our savings to have a resonable retirement without scrimping and doing without and the money that is tied up to recieve this interest would be freed up. I would love to spend my savings but realise the consequences of having to rely on a meagre state income for the rest of my life.

I was never unemployed, have never claimed benefit and my state pension was earned not given.

Posted by: redtoon1892 | June 04, 2009 at 03:28 PM

Some interesting points made and raised. Given that interest rates are virtually at 0% it is not a case of if they will be raised but a case of when. Currently, new buyers are taking out loans to raise the deposit for their houses- in the region of 32,000 pounds. These loasn are not at the preferential mortgage rate of interest but far higher. When interest rates do go North, and they will at some point in the future, you can bet your bottom dollar that many will find it difficult to meet their monthly payments. It will not be pretty and I can only hope the government of the day will do all they can to cushion the blow in someway rather than force people out of their homes and onto the streets.

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4 Reasons Why the British Pound Is Set To Soar Again!

By: Sean Hyman Wednesday, July 15, 2009 12:38 PM

Today, I want to share with you, four crucial reasons why I believe that the British pound is about to soar once again vs. the U.S. dollar.

Even though the pound (GBP) has been stuck in a range bound pattern for a month and a half now, things are about to change.

Here's why:

1. The U.K. "unemployment claims" figures have been headed down ever since the huge spike up in March. In fact, the latest numbers came out this morning. What did it show? There was a positive revision (improvement) in the previous month's unemployment numbers to 30.8K. The latest numbers were expected to come in at 41.4K but ended up coming in at a much lower 23.8K. Lower unemployment claims is a bullish sign for their economy and therefore, for their currency as well.

Source: iStockAnalyst http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewa...ticleid/3350478

LaoPo

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Britain's grim outlook for jobs

Out of work and out of luck

Jun 4th 2009

From The Economist print edition

Unemployment will carry on rising long after the recession ends

THERE were fresh signs this week that the economic outlook may be brightening. Manufacturing and construction fell again in May but they are no longer plunging, according to the latest surveys of purchasing managers. The finding that the big services sector expanded last month was especially encouraging.

But even if the economy does turn up before too long, the prospects for the jobless still look grim. So far employment has fallen by 1% since it peaked at 29.5m in the second quarter of 2008. That is about the same drop as at a similar stage in the economic downturn of the early 1980s, and a bit less than the 1.5% decline in the early 1990s. Employment carried on falling long after those two recessions had ended, to a trough more than 6% lower than the preceding peak (see chart 1).

That augurs ill for job prospects today. The ranks of the unemployed have already swollen to 2.2m, the largest since 1996. In the early 1980s the jobless rate rose from 5.5% of the labour force before the recession to 11.9% three years after it had ended. A decade later it increased from 6.9% to 10.6% six months after a sustained recovery had started. These precedents suggest that the unemployment rate, which has already gone up from 5.4% in spring 2008 to 7.1%, will carry on rising and end a lot higher, almost certainly above 10%.

Even so there are some reasons to hope for a better outcome this time. For a decade or more, the labour market has been working better than before. The burden of regulation has increased under Labour, but the greater flexibility brought about by Margaret Thatcher’s curbs on union power has not been thrown away. The woeful experience of the 1980s, when unemployment kept on rising for so long, is unlikely to recur. The labour market should bounce back more readily in Britain than in other big European economies such as Germany and France, says John Philpott, chief economist at the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development.

That flexibility should not be exaggerated, however. True, employers are pushing through measures like pay freezes that were once unthinkable, and this should reduce job losses. Yet this is less remarkable than it may seem: retail prices are falling anyway, and real earnings also dropped at the outset of the previous two recessions. Nor have firms been more willing to retain staff on shorter hours than in the past. Falls in hours worked are quite close to those at a similar point in the earlier downturns.

The limited gains from flexibility suggest that there is still much pain to come. The main casualties are already apparent. Even in good times youngsters struggle to get a foothold in the labour market. That makes them especially vulnerable now that employers are shedding staff. The careers of young people who are unemployed for a year or more are likely to be permanently scarred, says Paul Gregg, an economist at Bristol University.

An ominous pattern is beginning to emerge. The employment rate of those aged 18-24 fell by 3.9 percentage points in the year to the first quarter of 2009. By contrast, it declined by only 1.5 points among 25-34 year-olds and by 0.4 points for older people up to the state-pension age. The jobless rate among 18-24-year-olds, just under 10% in late 2003, has jumped to 16%, a level reached in the early 1990s only after the recession had ended (see chart 2).

The government has introduced new policies to help young people and to arrest a drift into long-term unemployment. Since April employers have been eligible for a subsidy of £1,000 if they recruit someone who has been out of work for at least six months. And from January 2010 any young person who has been jobless for a year or more will be guaranteed a job or training assignment. Jobcentre Plus, the first port of call for the newly unemployed, has been given more resources (see <A href="http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13788549">article).

But even with this extra support, labour-market portents still look grim. Economic confidence may be slowly returning, but it will take a lot longer for employment to recover.

Chaps, I have to say that this doesn't look to good and really can't help the pound to bounce back. don't get me wrong, I'm still a supporter of the home country but it looks like chickens are finally coming home to roost. Artificially low interest rates have spurred growth in house sales but this will only bring catastrophy when they return to normal levels over the course of a 25 year mortgage - somewhere around 10% appears to be the trend. Tremendous unemployment levels that will be a major drain on near non-existant national resources. The IMF stating their dire warnings on our global debt burden. It's not going to be pretty for a long long time

Our Catholic priest once said that love is infinite. There is no limit to your love. You may love your wife with all your heart, and love your son with all your heart. You may love your loyal pooch with all your heart and still have love left over of other people. This could include a second woman.

Question is - will that be alright with the missis?

Men it seems tend to be polygamous. It is my Catholic upbringing that makes demands on my remaining monogamous.

Arrrh , yes. Catholic priests. They may well demand that you be monongamous but they play by different rules when it comes to giving out their well known brand of 'love'

Here's what UBS thinks about Sterling exchange rates:

"We think currency markets are not pricing in the risks that sterling faces over the next year," said Mansoor Mohi-uddin, chief currency strategist at UBS, in a research note.

"Even without an outright crisis the conduct of economic policy will remain highly challenging over the next twelve months as the next election looms and politicians face persistently high rates of unemployment. In terms of fiscal policy, Britain has less room for manoeuvre than is commonly believed."

UBS recommends selling the pound after its rally in the second quarter.

Risks to the value of sterling include planned large rises in net public debt, to close to 80pc of GDP in the coming five years, and the possibility of a hung Parliament after the next general election, which would weaken the government of the day's ability to tighten fiscal policy enough to stave off a currency crisis.

However, Mr Mohi-uddin said Britain is in a much better position than it was in 1976, when the pound collapsed and Britain ultimately had to be rescued by the International Monetary Fund. That is because the Bank of England is independent, so monetary policy is less at risk from political interference.

"To avoid a sequel, Britain must tighten fiscal policy when the economy recovers and raise interest rates," he said.

The pound could return to the lows of the end of 2008 and start of 2009, which could be the "new 'fair values'" of sterling, if the Government fails to control fiscal policy as it did in the mid-1970s.

IF our man is correct that means fair value is GBP/USD at 1.46 and GBP/THB at 51, IF!

A very balanced assessment in my view, I think we can assume fiscal policy will be controlled and interest rates can only go one way, but my concern is that the recovery will be stunted. My feeling is today's valuation is 'fair price', after all every other economy is facing severe challenges too.

And as the interest rates rise as they are bound to do, so you will see the UK go back down the toilet. So many properties were bought at prices that were affordable due to such abnormally low interest rates. For the GBP to become attractive it will have to raise rate significantly and family budgets will be stretched. It sounds like a repeat of the early 90s is sadly on the cards

very good step by thai govt....

... a haphazardous approach is better than nothing, you mean?

. Well, while there on the beach, I purchased a gift for a freind. When I left, I forgot the gift I purchased and left it there under the little table where I was sitting.

I went back to the beach and was sitting in my chair when one of the staff walked up to me and handed me the forgotten gift I had purchased over a week ago! I was happily surprised! I gave them some money to show my appreciation and noticed that they dissapeared into the distant crowd of chairs, umberellas and people.

I thought it was simply a fluke to be remembered in such a way till I came back the following year only to find that hotel staff remembered me and were able to remind me of past conversations I had with them! AMAZING!

-------------------------------------------------

Yes.. it is great for us western people, to experience people that have an interest of remember us. I myself have an possible explanation how this can be!!

here in thailand among the most of them, there has ALWAYS been that information is NEVER written down, it has been by remembering things..... It is the same in Africa or everywhere in the world where people doesn´t have the mean of any technique. And it was the same for us guys from the west too, for a long time ago.

Human memory when trained is very good, maybe even excellent, but it slows down as soon as we do not use it.

So Paul enjoy it and do not be surpriced, it is just natural.

Glegolo

Agreed, Thais are not big on reading and rote learning is the only methodology applied in education. consequently, they do rely a lot more on memory which does pay-off in certain situations. My wife has a phenomenal ability to hear a new English word spoken to her once or twice and she will soon be incorporating it into her vocabulary. Amazing

As for being recognised, I lived full-time on Samsen soi 1 and 7 for around 4 years 1996-2001 and spent a lot of time walking around the area - Khao San Road was my back yard and obviously full of tourists. Yet going back, 7 or 8 years later, with a Canadian chick looking for accomodation for her its was amazing how often I was stopped on the streets by friendly locals who were asking after me and what I been up to etc. Earned a lot of kudos from that and really had my heart warmed

If I may kindly suggest: never mind your native language, if it's not Thai and you're learning Thai.

Most uni-trained teachers of Thai appear poorly trained to teach Thai to farang. Like the Thai teachers of English, maybe one in ten is half decent at their job.

I think I agree with you but I do not find your post easy to follow.

Do you mean "I suggest that, as a foreigner learning Thai, you forget any preconceived rules or constructions that you have of your native language and try to understand Thai structures. If that is so, I am with you 100%

I agree the end game is to be able to think and therefore communicate 100% in whichever language you are trying to learn. However, getting there presents a number of options - the old rote learning methodology or a communicative approach, for example. It's just a case of 'whatever floats your boat'. Whichever route you take to become fluent in a second language you will always make comparisons with L1 - it's a natural part of the process