johndpoole

I fail to see how people demanding that Democracy is returned to them is "anarchy".

Anarchy actually means there are no leaders. So how can there be anarchy if there is a leadership.

I find the amount of scare mongering in the Yellow owned media quite amusing.

The simple fact is that Democracy was crushed in Thailand and the rule of law was not obeyed by the coup leaders and that problem has resulted in all problems to this day.

Democracy was crushed once by men with guns and secondly by people appointed by the men with guns.

Until free and fair elections are held then Democracy remains crushed in Thailand.

The government came to power by courts and manipulation behind the scenes and is not "Elected" by the people.

This is the problem and a problem that is easy to resolve.

Simply dissolve the lower house, say there will be elections in 3 months and in the interim period a "unity government" will oversee the period leading up to elections.

The Reds would accept this.

Who cares what the Reds want? They are just one small part of the people that make up Thailand and when they pull the BS they are pulling now ... only an utter moron would believe they should have any part of running this country. Here is one of the Red leaders now rallying the troops to come to BKK ...

The majority of the people of Thailand support the Reds.

Thats the major issue and why the government is very very scared to do anything against them

You say who cares what they want ? Well, they want Democracy.

I think that is very relevent.

Hold an electon in 2 months time and see who wins, then you will see why the present minority running the country do not want elections to be held until as late as possible.

The Reds rejected the 9 months as the government said "9 months and change the consititution" which would have meant following a year of wrangling there would be no early dissoluton, it would take the full 1 year and 9 months the present government has. And in 9 months when they do not step down who is going to support another rally with just 12 months left.......

Please, think about the games being played on both sides and understand more.

yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

"THE NATION: PM: Court has ruled police can arrest protest leaders 'when they are breaking the law" only.(arrest can be made only when they are on stage)"

So in Thailand you are only able to be charged if caught in the act ?

I am sure there is a break down in this translation.

This makes no sense, even in Thailand. An arrest warrant is just that ... paper giving permission to arrest somebody on sight because there is probable cause they have ALREADY committed a crime.

If police needed a warrant to arrest somebody who they see committing an arrestable offense then Thailand has bigger problems than any of us can imagine.

I fail to see how people demanding that Democracy is returned to them is "anarchy".

Anarchy actually means there are no leaders. So how can there be anarchy if there is a leadership.

I find the amount of scare mongering in the Yellow owned media quite amusing.

The simple fact is that Democracy was crushed in Thailand and the rule of law was not obeyed by the coup leaders and that problem has resulted in all problems to this day.

Democracy was crushed once by men with guns and secondly by people appointed by the men with guns.

Until free and fair elections are held then Democracy remains crushed in Thailand.

The government came to power by courts and manipulation behind the scenes and is not "Elected" by the people.

This is the problem and a problem that is easy to resolve.

Simply dissolve the lower house, say there will be elections in 3 months and in the interim period a "unity government" will oversee the period leading up to elections.

The Reds would accept this.

Who cares what the Reds want? They are just one small part of the people that make up Thailand and when they pull the BS they are pulling now ... only an utter moron would believe they should have any part of running this country. Here is one of the Red leaders now rallying the troops to come to BKK ...

A [ peaceful Red headed off to a baseball game?

What is kind of funny though is the Red's consistent line that the brutal yellow shirted Army of Thailand is really control of the country. As if their roaming mob could get away with this anywhere else let alone one controlled by the military.

Sadly, I agree.

Abhisit is coming out of this far too wishy washy.

Just read a quote of his translated speech, which basically says that because more people joined the mob, it was impossible to enforce the law

<deleted> is all that about?????????

I am afraid that Abhisit is being far too soft, and the red shirts can see that. They are behaving like a naughty child whose parent keeps saying "If you do that one more time, you will get a smack". And the smack never comes!! Its actually becoming a rather embarrassing joke.

Actually what is embarrassing is the sight of expatriates baying for blood - without much knowledge, without context and certainly without understanding.

So far Abhisit hasn't put a foot wrong.Unlike sadly many forum members he has a profound and wise understanding of recent Thai political history.He knows that to over react would be fatal and is showing admirable patience.Sooner or later the Reds will go home and will understand that they were treated in a civilised and non-patronising way.In Thailand violence and thuggishness is always just beneath that she surface.Abhisit has resisted all that.He should be proud and his detractors on this forum ashamed.

Kindly point out where I am 'baying for blood"

I have lived over here for many years, thanks, and am well aware of happenings years gone by.

However I feel that it is a big mistake to do Nothing..... the reds are not going to simply 'go home' aint going to happen.

I believe that the very least that should have happened is loud mouths like Jakaprob, should have been arrested. There are ways of resolving this without turning to violence, and I resent the way you are intimating thats what I want!!!

I do not think that by arresting some of the red leaders, especially regarding to what they have been saying, would be 'over reacting'. It would be the right and proper thing to do.

To do nothing, in my opinion, is a big mistake

Simple facts are that the reason we don't see sustained mobs like this in other countries because people expect (demand) their leaders to enforce the law. The reason we see this continually happening along with regular coups in Thailand is a simple reason ... because they can.

We all like to believe we are good people and will always do the right thing but truth be told ... how many banks would have any money if everyone knew they coiuld rob them and get away with it?

Sadly, I agree.

Abhisit is coming out of this far too wishy washy.

Just read a quote of his translated speech, which basically says that because more people joined the mob, it was impossible to enforce the law

<deleted> is all that about?????????

I am afraid that Abhisit is being far too soft, and the red shirts can see that. They are behaving like a naughty child whose parent keeps saying "If you do that one more time, you will get a smack". And the smack never comes!! Its actually becoming a rather embarrassing joke.

Actually what is embarrassing is the sight of expatriates baying for blood - without much knowledge, without context and certainly without understanding.

So far Abhisit hasn't put a foot wrong.Unlike sadly many forum members he has a profound and wise understanding of recent Thai political history.He knows that to over react would be fatal and is showing admirable patience.Sooner or later the Reds will go home and will understand that they were treated in a civilised and non-patronising way.In Thailand violence and thuggishness is always just beneath that she surface.Abhisit has resisted all that.He should be proud and his detractors on this forum ashamed.

Polite golf clap.

Fatal?????????? Hmm, I didn't see his death last year during Songran and we've seen his popularity grow since then as we have his success and why now the Reds are so desperate to derail him, even if it means it hurts the entire country and the livelyhood and freedoms of anyone who stand in their way ... including their own people who they are leading to a provoked and wanted confrontation with the police. They are going out of their way to provoke authority and police and hoping the military will be called out to restore peace so they can use and twist video footage as they did with the doctored audio tape from last year and replayed again today to their followers claiming it to be authentic.

But the Bangkok Post says vendors and pedestrians "cheering the Reds".

Is The Nation becoming so biased that they cannot see reality now ?????

WHICH IS why I say you have to be in Bangkok to really see what is going on. The truth is not always what you read in the papers and TN appears to be becoming far too biased now IMO.

The Reds have massive support in Bangkok and its why the government will not use force. They are too scared of the consequences. Its why they have issued deadline after deadline only to see the deadline pass and make them look weaker and weaker.

I would say there is massive indifference in Bangkok. I just saw a group of a dozen red vehicles go through Ratchada, Thailand Cultural Centre area and while the were ten or so street vendors and motorbike taxis cheering them on, there was another 90 either glancing up for a moment to see what the fuss was about or ignoring them all together.

It is not indifference .. remember this is Thailand. People don't typically say negative things or jeer as they would in another country.

You live in the area or just passing through. I am up off of Pracharachbumphen

What a boneheaded move to get arrest warrants that you are to scared to execute. The Red leaders now have more motivation to not stop the chaos because they know when it is over, they will be arrested. As long as they keep the mob around the PM and Police will do nothing ... except run away or be chased into parks or have their vehicles taken from them.

Study after study has shown when the law is not enforced (even small laws) that it creates crime or creates more breaking of laws. Allowing this mob to go unchecked will only ensure they get bolder and bolder and more people will be hurt (eventually killed) ... just as their actions have grown boulder every single day so far.

In addition you will see that although they are losing core support, they are able to recruit more radicals who are simply anarchists and those looking to cause chaos and hurt society.

Letting these people protest and was one thing but they should have never allowed them to cross the first line of showing disrespect to the laws. Because now they simply are showing they are above the law by specifically going to the 11 places ruled illegal for them to go. Clearly their claimed goal of a peaceful gathering has long since gone ... actually it was gone when their leader told everyone to come to BKK with a bottle to be filled with gasoline.

Sadly, I agree.

Abhisit is coming out of this far too wishy washy.

Just read a quote of his translated speech, which basically says that because more people joined the mob, it was impossible to enforce the law

<deleted> is all that about?????????

I am afraid that Abhisit is being far too soft, and the red shirts can see that. They are behaving like a naughty child whose parent keeps saying "If you do that one more time, you will get a smack". And the smack never comes!! Its actually becoming a rather embarrassing joke.

Actually what is embarrassing is the sight of expatriates baying for blood - without much knowledge, without context and certainly without understanding.

So far Abhisit hasn't put a foot wrong.Unlike sadly many forum members he has a profound and wise understanding of recent Thai political history.He knows that to over react would be fatal and is showing admirable patience.Sooner or later the Reds will go home and will understand that they were treated in a civilised and non-patronising way.In Thailand violence and thuggishness is always just beneath that she surface.Abhisit has resisted all that.He should be proud and his detractors on this forum ashamed.

hmmm or they may go home and tell everyone that BKK is the place to go which is voice of consequences if you want to break the law, assault police, take police vehicles, threaten & intimidate the public, thumb your knows at society and lawful orders while generally creating chaos.

The mob is now pushing the police line again at Ratchaprasong ... live on TV before they just interrupted for the PM to address the nation

Interesting that the PM is on all channels now, but that there are rarely reports/news about the red shirt protests.

Wrong and flaming. Take another look, there's plenty of short news items about the red shirt activity across many channels.

How is that flaming or wrong? Am I not reading the post right? They did just break into all news channels to cover the PM and there are very few if live reports of what is going on.

Abhisit continues to say he doesn't want to use force.

Thank God the international press has not really picked up on this and has shown Thailand as the laughing stock is is making itself.

Sadly, I agree.

Abhisit is coming out of this far too wishy washy.

Just read a quote of his translated speech, which basically says that because more people joined the mob, it was impossible to enforce the law

<deleted> is all that about?????????

I am afraid that Abhisit is being far too soft, and the red shirts can see that. They are behaving like a naughty child whose parent keeps saying "If you do that one more time, you will get a smack". And the smack never comes!! Its actually becoming a rather embarrassing joke.

Where are you getting the translation from? Do you have a link or if not able to post here send me a private message. I am still trying to figure out all the sources of English news here and usually rely on my GF to translate speeches like this. In other words I just get the gist from her.

Abhisit continues to say he doesn't want to use force.

Thank God the international press has not really picked up on this and has shown Thailand as the laughing stock is is making itself.

The sad thing is the silent majority who support the Reds remain silent. I have spoken to many who say they support the Reds but are afraid to go there or wear a red shirt as they might get beaten up by the Yellow shirts or shot at by government forces.

Many "silent" supporters also work for "Yellow" bosses and so must not be "seen" to support the Reds or they may lose their job.

The pressure on the working class under the elite is immense but still some have the guts and courage to come out and demand Democracy to be returned to the people.

How are the Yellow/Pink shirts getting on ? Numbers less than 100 today ?

LMAO ... didn't you just say in a previous post that the Reds were lining the streets in support of this mob? Don't sound to scared to me. Seems that you have got caught in the lie of all the support they are receiving by Bangkonians and now are trying to say .... LMAO ... actually just too moronic to repeat or even follow.

Where is the Ignore button?

The mob is now pushing the police line again at Ratchaprasong ... live on TV before they just interrupted for the PM to address the nation

Reds seize state vehicles

Weng Tojirakarn ordered red-shirt guards to take control of the fire engines and an armoured car brought in by authorities at Ratchaprasong intersection to break up the mob and restore peace.

The government's Centre for the Administration of Peace and Order (CAPO) has approved arrest warrants for up to 10 co-leaders of the anti-government United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD)

But the Bangkok Post says vendors and pedestrians "cheering the Reds".

Is The Nation becoming so biased that they cannot see reality now ?????

WHICH IS why I say you have to be in Bangkok to really see what is going on. The truth is not always what you read in the papers and TN appears to be becoming far too biased now IMO.

The Reds have massive support in Bangkok and its why the government will not use force. They are too scared of the consequences. Its why they have issued deadline after deadline only to see the deadline pass and make them look weaker and weaker.

.

LMAO ... what is more ignorant that believing a single news story is to read two different account and believe the one that fits what you want to believe. How about the truth being somewhere in between or both being true????

Why don't you turn on the news if you are in BKK and you may see that there were a few people of both sides on the street.

Bottom line is I am in BKK and watched the first weekend they were here when they had great support lining the streets but the tides have turned dramatically and there are few in BKK who condone what the mob is now doing and few who don't want to see them go home NOW.

deleted

When the police fail to protect the people and enforce the law the only logical result will be the people acting on their own to protect their lives, property and freedom. The continues siege of BKK by the Reds Shirts is creating a heavy toll on people's mental health and you can expect to see a growing rate of people acting out or even banding together in a effort to enforce the law and eliminate the pain and threat the Reds are currently causing.

I wonder when, if it hasn't already passed, the time will come were the PM is a day late and a dollar short in terms of his political career as a result of his dealing with this situation.

Even if the Reds do something grand and overtly violently, I believe many people will hold him 1/2 responsible too since he has as of yet done NOTHING to restore peace and prevent overt violence (death and injuries) which we all know is coming if this group is left unchecked.

Using force now (and it's necessarily attendant violence) would, like holding an election now, solve nothing and lead to more unrest and violence. Gently does it.

Enforcing the law and holding those accountable who flagrantly break the law would solve the situation we have now. When people learn there are laws that need to be respected then future coups will stop and people will learn they need to wait for elections and handle grievances in legal ways.

Enforcing the law will restore peace to all those suffering at the hands of this mob as well as stop further damage to Thailand as a whole.

MAKE NO MISTAKES ... THERE IS A LAWLESS MOB ROAMING THE STREETS OF BKK AS WE SPEAK

It's amazing how the pundits on here keep underestimating Abhisit time and again. Yet 16 months and counting, he is still PM, and still running the show. I know it drives Rainman crazy, so it must be a good thing!

If he intends to remain the PM and plans on having the election in 9-months then he better do something now to show he is capable of keeping peace and maintaining control over the capitol let alone the entire country.

I wonder when, if it hasn't already passed, the time will come were the PM is a day late and a dollar short in terms of his political career as a result of his dealing with this situation.

Even if the Reds do something grand and overtly violently, I believe many people will hold him 1/2 responsible too since he has as of yet done NOTHING to restore peace and prevent overt violence (death and injuries) which we all know is coming if this group is left unchecked.

To me the color RED has some very serious connotational problems. Look at other "red" fights for what they call "power to the people" or "democracy":

- the little Red Book by Mao. Result: about 20 million died under Mao's government.

- the Read Army terrorizing Eastern Europe for almost 40 years

- the Khmer Rouge (or Red Khmer) under Pol Pot. (BTW, did you know that Hun Sen was a close ally of Pol Pot?)

- the usually red shirt of Hugo Chavez. This guy obviously has a lot in common with Thaksin. Slowly turning a a democracy into a dictatorship with one leader for life.

Of course, that's all just a coincidence, but doesn't it give you something to think about?

In today's Bangkok Post they quote one Red Shirt lady with what I believe is the basic truth in the present situation. Here is what she said:

" We are all calling for democracy and want Thaksin Shinawatra to come back because we will have money in our pockets when he returns as Prime Minister of Thailand again."

She sells flowers at the Erewan shrine.

My Thai wife said: "What a brainless idiot. But then again that's why she only sells flowers."

I am guessing flower sales were higher under Thaksin given the thousand who died due to the summary executions that took place. But I think it might have more to do with having to repay loans that were given out by their leaders who were in Thaksin's pocket.

At this point the issue maybe dismissing the ineffective police force and then send in the Army.