newbie001

Kerry K. You are the one rewriting history. You show me one document that Thais signed allied with Germany. All I stated was that the country signed a treaty with Japan after 1 day of fighting.

They allied with Japan to protect from being occupied. How is that rewriting history? If they had a secret agreement with Japan (like you state), then why did Thais die fighting them at the border?

Yes, Piboon supported the ideas of the Nazis, but that doesn't mean the populace did. He was a brutal leader but was liked by the populace for his defense of Thailand not for his hatred of the Chinese.

As per your belief in secret agreement with Japan prior to their invasion of Thailand, where did you read that?

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I cannot believe anyone is condoning this performance. Most should agree that it is totally inappropriate. But in the same vane it shouldn't turn into an excuse to bash all of the country or the people or their cultural values. People's western ideals and upbringing shouldn't be considered better or more learned.

The main reason that westerners care about these things is because they are forced to. People do the most horrific racist and ignorant things in their own countries but in public it is all " we never do things like that"

FYI Thailand didn't support Germany in WW2. They signed a treaty with Japan after 8 hours of fighting so that they wouldn't be destroyed. That doesn't mean that they knew or cared what Germany was doing in Europe. Only Pibunsongran supported some of Hitler's beliefs, not the Thai people.

There are a lot of ignorant things that happen in this world and Thailand isn't an exception. Just stop bashing the country or taking the event so personal.

No one gets upset over the crusades where a lot more people were killed because of their religion. If the students were dressed up as crusaders would you all beat that to death like this thread?

Ok, perhaps you are just Ethnocentric and not fully ignorant.

However, the things that you mention are in the national curriculum. Because of the amount of paperwork that is required by MOE schools do cover the material. If the students learn it or not or if the teachers themselves can fully comprehend, is a different matter but that is not a Thai thing that is an educational issue that faces many nations.

People from England say the same about people from US. Does that mean that the US education system isn't good? Or is it just that there are different priorities from each nation's perspective.

I also think that your perspective of Thai people is limited. Just because the people that you know don't know the names in English doesn't mean that people don't actually know these things. If you could actually communicate in Thai and find someone that wasn't raised from a village you might actually be surprised what Thais know.

Do you really think that the average 13 year old of any nation knows what genocide is? Especially in a foreign language.

You are old so you think that everyone should have the knowledge that you possess today but my guess is that you were as much as idiot when you were thirteen as the rest of us.

Why don't you sit in on the Onet tests in Dec. and see if you can pass even the 6 grade test. My guess is that you can't. There are failures in the system and the breadth of the curriculum, however the real issue with the lack of education is the fact that many of these people are in classes of 50-60.

The failure isn't that the curriculum doesn't favor western ideals.

I also think that pulling a kid out of a school because one class did something is a little over the top. Forcing a teacher to resign, or switching the classroom is acceptable but totally blaming an entire school or a culture because of one teacher's poor judgement is a little extreme.

I think what bothers me the most is that this upsetting and short sighted choice of teachers at Sacred Heart to allow this, has turned another thread into an ignorant Thai bashing fest.

Uptheos "Thai's aren't taught world history or geography."

Really, when was the last time that you looked at the Thai national curriculum?

You are as ignorant as those that you accuse of being.

Unless you yourself went to a Thai school or teach all subjects at a Thai school, how do you know everything that is taught.

What Thais learn is considerable the downside is because of the manner in which most educational institutes instill that knowledge what students forget is a lot.

I don' think that the average teacher or student in any country is always fully aware of the sensitivity needed in all areas. There was a teacher in Australia a year or two back that had his students plot a terrorist attack. In the 70's in the US one teacher wanted to get his students involved in studying about Nazis, so he created a system like the SS and had the students punish anyone that wore a certain colored arm band. They even made a TV movie about it.

Teachers in all countries and students make mistakes.

Do not make this into a Thai thing. I really hate how ignorant many posters are. They are outraged by the ignorance of one class from one school and then turn it into a chance to bash all Thai people, their cultural beliefs, and their educational system.

I doubt that anyone here including parents know everything that is taught to their children at school.

I agree that it is offensive and I have seen other schools in Thailand do similar things. Pattaya and Phuket had some pics online from an event like this.

The one issue that I have is that ok, the teachers were told and let it continue. However we don't know when they were told. Telling them the day or two before the event after the kids spent hours making costumes and banners and probably performing for hours. Most teachers are not going to stop something completely. They would get a lot more complaints from parents that already spent considerable time and effort themselves.

I also find it ironic when the countless people who claim this is wrong are the same one's that call their partner "Thai Wife" or refer to other western expats as Farrang. Or even worse call someone a Nazi this or that when the person is acting like a dictator. I remember not too long ago on this web some reference to Seinfeld's "Soup Nazi"

If it is so bad to you, then why is it a part of our vernacular?

I am not condoning what the school did. Personally, I think that it is atrocious. I am just saying that westerners do as many ignorant things and we are to be forgiven. We also don't know the full story. We are hearing one side from an angry parent or 3rd hand information.

Third point, anyone that thinks the Buddhist symbol is the same is an idiot. It is in reverse. Certain nations of Native Americans also have used the reverse symbol. That is like confusing a turn left with a turn right signal. If you are that oblivious to things, you shouldn't be on the street.

So according to this research 1/3 of the entire population is 12-24 years old. I think that they need to do a little research on populations statistics before falsifying their research.

Of course they don't mention how many people claimed to smoking or drinking at that age, just that it was the youngest. So out of an entire country perhaps only one person said that. Not anything to get upset about.

Articles like this is the reason why people don't believe statistics. This isn't news this is hype.

Renting a motorcycle 200-250 a day would be a good idea for you to visit Doi Suthep and the waterfall. It isn't a bad ride to Hangdong for Bahn Tawai, or Bor Sangh but I wouldn't do both on the same day as they are in opposite directions. Personally I would only go to one or the either not both, but if you want fabric, ceramics and silver products Bor Sangh has a better selection.

For 800-900 baht (750 if they are desperate) you can get a group tour to see the elephant camp, ride one for an hour, take an ox cart see the hill tribe, bamboo raft, orchid garden. Some even pay the 200-250 extra and see the tigers. I think that it is worth it overall. If you did on your own you might save 400-500 baht, but for the convenience of not dealing with haggling or getting lost I think that it is worth it. PM if you cannot find a place on the web yourself or want their direct phone number, there are two that I found that offered reasonable rates.

You might be dissapointed with the snake farms, but if you have never seen cobras you will learn something.

Wat Chiang Man is the oldest temple in CM and has some very special relics, Chedi Luang is another must see if Temples are your thing.

As others recommend getting to Temples early isn't a bad idea. If you go early enough you can see the monks/novices parade around with their bowls. Give some food and get a blessing. It can be a nice feeling.

For 250 baht you might want to hire a horse cart and go around Wiang Kuhm Kahn (the first city center built by King Mengrai, it is only about 15 minute drive from city center.

Don't waste your time with taxis or tuk tuks. It is far too much hassle than they are worth. As long as you can handle a motorcycle, they are by far the easiest way to get around. Unless of course you come during the height of rain season.

As for MuyThai, do it in BKK if you are going to be there. I wouldn't say that I have ever seen a "real" event here in CM. There are some good fights but most are lower ranked or amateurs.

PS, make sure that you have your travel insurance with you. It really might help in a worst case scenario.

Good luck and enjoy your holiday.

General vs. specific reference is clearly different.

Look at the Thai people who drive them. They are rednecks. They are not social elite. If one wants to be like them all the power to them.

I find it ironic that someone can call me a xxxxxxxx and nothing is done about it.

Thanks for the personal attack. I am glad that the rules are unbiased on this forum.

Like it or not, Thai people consider Tuk Tuk's a low class form of transportation. If you are a redneck and want to drive one that is one things but for normal middle class people there are equal forms of transportation that are economical without looking like a tard.

They are not a stable form of transportation and flip over at even medium speeds.

My guess is that westerners that drive them want to feel like James Bond, but they are a throw back in time and the environment would be better off without them. Not to mention the noise.

I will never understand why anyone would buy a Tuk tuk for personal use.

But thanks for spreading the information. I am certain some redneck will want one.

Ditto above.

If it is only for a month and you want to keep them then pay them as usual. Otherwise they will need to find other work and might not return to you when you are back.

If they are loyal to you, then be loyal to them.

Good luck though whatever you decide.

You are right we are all idiots and uncultured. I will now move to wherever you tell me is the best place to live.

FYI move away from the 2 blocks in the center of town and you will find lovely parks, waterfalls, ancient buildings that are some of the oldest in Thailand.

Northern Thai food is second only to Issaan food. If you haven't had Gaeng: Hinlay, Kanoon, pak wan, som, hok, nam prik aong, you haven't eaten Northern and cannot judge.

10 minutes from the city center and you will find another world.

Why do tourist complain about areas being for tourists?

IE. I hate Vegas because there are so many casinos and bright lights.

Judging the second largest province by the 2 blocks around the city center is pretty lame.

OP, wake up and go out more. You know nothing at all about Chiang Mai.

If you want high arts and culture, then yes Chiang Mai is lame, but it is not a metropolis it isn't suppose to have the best art museums and music scene. It has what it has and for a relaxed pace of life that isn't overcrowded at all, it is a wonderful place with a mix of everything.

The alpo with gravy isn't that expensive and with a little warm water it is quickly eaten by most dogs compared to a dry food.

I also find that butter is highly overpriced but the quality is good compared to many other local places. No way that it would survive in the west.

Their bread is very good though.

Chang Klan road, you can get Kao man Gai across from the Hospital, there are also a few shops behind the 7/11 that have Thaifood that open around 6AM.

There are a few shops that sell boiled rice khao tohm.

this makes me want to vomit.

Of course he is not open to that kind of criticism because that is exactly what he is doing. If however, he donates at least half of that money to the temple then it might be understandable. But 30,000 baht to facilitate something that is free to anyone and not hard to do is offensive.

Luckily this was printed in English not Thai. I think that he would be arrested quite quickly, because this kind of tour is illegal in this country. Check with your police. There are very strict regulations on Buddhism and profiteering from it.

I believe that all of the shops only sell either Pork or beef. I haven't seen chicken Satay in CM. I have found them in the south, but never in the north.

Kalbo, do you really think that tempe or other standard indonesia foods would do well in Thailand let alone Chiang Mai? I don't think that most Thai people would actually enjoy any dishes from Indonesia, they barely enjoy Indian and there just aren't enough foreigners that would make it profitable.

Thighlander. I regret agreeing with you now. You clearly have no idea about what you are talking about. Prem. is an international school and used to only hire people abroad, no local hires. Their pay is high but was about 80-90,000 baht, not 130. They have never hired a full time fully licensed teacher with experience for 30-40K, that rate is for private schools. The lowest paid international school in CM still pays about 50k.

Know what you are talking about before you flame people.

I think that your problem is that you are reciting third or fourth hand information but you yourself don't actually know anything about the topic but cannot avoid stating your uniformed opinion.

Everyone will have different experiences and there is a lot of debating on this thread but most people involved in the discussion actually know what they are talking about.

since they have a word for mixed children ,I doubt your statement. Hearing the kids called Look Kreung would be common but farrang noi. I hardly doubt it. So I must call BS on that one. At a 100,000 baht kindergarten I doubt that also. Or are we to believe that you work there?

I don't know what you are on about but you clearly have not been in academia for a very long time. That is fine and I doubt that you even possess a graduate degree let alone a PhD. If by chance that you do, you might have done some research on your own and have seen publications that list lots of co authors. Usually only one person actually wrote such papers many of the names are on because of some affiliation.

I did not once claim that I did this. I just said that it is common practice and in no way robs a student of their credit nor does it give false claim to the advisor. If a student working in the science field made a discovery solely on their own without any guidance whatsoever then of course they wouldn't put someone else's name on his/her paper, however that is seldom the case.

I am not a braggadocio like yourself, otherwise I would have bragged that I have taught at those universities and have been advisor to lots of students. I do indeed have a PhD. and 2 Master's degrees. I have been on committees at many universities in 7 different countries. I have never claimed to teach in Thailand but I have given some lectures and been on several boards and committees. I have published several journals, 2 books, and many articles in the past 15 years. I am quite familiar with academic practices, ethics and what is expected from both students and professors.

You my (not) friend do not have a grasp in academia at all and are biased by a personal set of beliefs that do not reflect the current field of academia.

I myself am from the Humanities field and I do not or did not put names of my professors on my papers and I didn't require it myself.

"academician" I think that you are looking for the simple word academic. As this word doesn't exist.

"

any freshmen in any semi recognizable higher institution of learning would not refer to "apa" as you cited in your post, nor "turabian".... as book....."

A manual if you prefer, but since there are over 300 pages it would be considered a book to any person of recognizable intelligence which you must be without.

Vont if I wanted to find your out of date paper and I searched google I doubt that I would even find it. However if your advisor had published many papers it would be easy to link to his research and thus find yours. You are a nobody, your professor most likely had 100's of publications.

This is not a Thai thing. This is a common practice around the world. 3 Universities that I have been affiliated with in France do this as well as 2 in UK. But as I stated it is only in the science fields.

It is not just about credit it is used because of search indexes that didn't exist in the archaic time that you went to school.

It doesn't discredit the writer to link his/ her publications to advisors that are well respected/known in their field.

To desire to have your own name imprinted with your students' on the first title page on any major research is purely unethical for that professor or otherwise.

Please, show me the link or the site that states this unsubstantiated opinion. I assure you that it is not unethical. It would be if the advisor replaced the students name, but to have his/her name under the writer as a co-author is perfectly normal and acceptable. Otherwise in books like APA, MLA it would say not to do this. Which it doesn't.

good news for you gentlemen Jim.

For most respondents to this thread they seem to not quite understand the issue. It isn't the use of the word fallang. It is calling a kid fallang instead of their name.

Yes, someone might be asian, but in a school system a teacher should not call that person, hey you Asian sit down.

The word in itself isn't offensive but if it is used in replace of a proper noun or referring to someone's differences when they are not necessary then it is indeed racists.

If you are the only white person in a room and someone asks where is so and so, someone could easily say the fallang. It would make sense to easily find the person.

But if you are at a restaurant with a group of Thais and the waiter said, khun krap, to everyone when asking them what they wanted but turned to you and said fallang krap. That again would be racist.

The westerners that I have met here that don't get offended by the word are the same ones that call their partners Thai wives/girlfriends. So in a sense they are racist also.

Thighlander you are right.

Prem often pays less than that. Only 3 people that I know get that much at Prem.

It is a common practice in many fields in all Universities around the world. It is not common in the Humanities but in the Sciences it is expected.

One main reason to put the name on publications is for search functions. An MA student with no publications will not be easy to find but when co-authored with a well published person it will be linked to more papers.

Publication is not a requirement of all Master's programs. The thesis doesn't have to be published to get your MA. For PhD, it is.

For most Thai students though the Graduate and Post Graduate research is often controlled much more by the advisor than in the west. Some departments that I have known actually tell the students what to research.

No it is not plagiarism. it is a sign of respect and acknowledgement that you did not work alone.

Western arrogance sounds like from many of the above posters to believe that their research is purely their own and that they don't owe anything to their advisors.

Air Asia book in Advance is only 1200-1500 baht. Saving a full night and not having to listen to crappy Thai kaoroke with low class degenerates is worth the extra 400-700 baht. Not to mention the amount of bus accidents that occur. But you save your extra few baht and I will visit your grave.

As to the OP, sounds like a great improvement if it actually reaches fruition. Time will tell. hard to believe that they can finish that much work in just 6 weeks.

When the VIP first class bus was only 480 baht to BKK and flights were a minimum of 2,500 it was definitely worth it, especially when you could get the sleeper bus, but now it really isn;t if you book your Air Asia flights early.