LantaSchool

Hi All

Just to clarify – whether you choose our school, a different one, or chose to study on-line – consider the benefits of learning in an interactive and experiential way. Our contribution on this thread was intended to provide readers with an awareness of different techniques and methods that are available, and thereby help readers who are looking for ways to learn the Thai language.

A quick word on TPR as I believe it is relevant to this thread - I move more directly back to topic further down...

TPR was established some 40 years ago, and there have been numerous debates among academics as to its effectiveness. Over the years it has fought off the critiques and maintained a steady following of supporters. We have references to independent write ups that support the method, such as this one at www.englishraven.com/method_TPR.html (not sure if that link will show).

"TPR is now a household name among teachers of foreign languages. It is widely acclaimed as a highly effective method at beginning levels, and almost a standard requirement in the instruction of young learners. It is also admired as a method due to its inherent simplicity, making it accessible to a wide range of teachers and learning environments."

Whilst we know this isn’t “independent research” as such, we would like readers to be aware that we have adopted it because we believe it to be effective for our students, and so far it has proven to be so. We have no interest in adopting a method that doesn’t work – why would we? But we’ll continue the TPR debate on another thread

If you’re trying to learn Thai – In many ways, we, as in Softwater and Lantaschool, are saying the same thing: "Speak, read, write, listen. Do all of these as much and as often as you can."

Unfortunately, however, many people do not have enough intrinsic motivation, or the attention span, to dedicate enough time and energy to learn a foreign language. Hence, many students drop out of language courses early, and do not reach the fluency they aspire to. Try to find out what the dropout rate is of any course you plan to enrol on.

If you enjoy learning in an academic way, using vocabulary lists and repeating dialogues, and you find it works for you, then the different methods we have been discussing on this thread are unlikely to be of benefit to you.

If however you feel uninspired, or put off from studying the Thai language because you find the idea of traditional, academic methods of learning too challenging or even boring, then – we encourage you to consider the benefits of other techniques. Using a combination of methods that will make you experience different ways of learning throughout the day, could engage your attention and motivation for much longer. Thus, you will be able to Speak, read, write, and listen more often and for longer - without getting bored or losing interest. You may even have fun as well...

Anyone interested in the methods we use are welcome to visit our school to see whether they feel they could benefit from different methods of learning or not. We also have a few YouTube videos that show the methods in action. At the end of the day, the methods you choose will be down to your own personal preference of what you feel will work best for you. We simply want to make you aware of some of the techniques available, and the results we have seen when they are applied.

Good luck

p.s Softwater - I’m sorry if you felt I was saying that adopting these methods was the ONLY way to learn Thai – I don’t think I made that claim anywhere? I’m sure there are other ways... It certainly isn’t my intention to “dismiss” other methods.

With regards to your comment about the learning methods of children – versus that of the adult. We understand your point, however the scientists that we base our courses on believe that we do not actually lose our ability to learn in certain ways when we grow older, but that we "forget" or "cover" our old learning methods, with those methods that we adopt through our school years and beyond. These scientists also believe that by "uncovering" and "relearning" these techniques, adults will find it a lot easier to pick up a second language.

And there are "scientists" who don't believe in global warming....but we seem to be having this debate in two different places at the same time. Interested forum readers might want to follow the thread in 'Best Thai Language School' thread and make their own minds up about Lanta's "scientists"

Yes - let's keep the debate in one place..

I want to make it clear I don't have an axe to grind with Lanta school. As an education professional, I do have an axe to grind with bogus theories and bogus research.

It's good to debate these topics - no offence taken.

Now I don't know if Lanta school is connected to James Asher or has just bought it into the hype, but the point is this: the only people claiming the TPR method works are James Asher (who sells the method) and schools like Lanta (who sell the method). Independent research needs to be from someone who has no vested interest.

We are not connected to James Asher. We studied a whole range of techniques and our final methods are not SOLELY based on TPR. We understand your point about independent research, which is one of the reasons we tested our techniques before launching. We continuously assess our students performance, and monitor the effectiveness of our courses. Even though we are experiencing such a good success rate, we still review which areas of our courses are working most effectively, so we have a sound grasp of what actually works for our students.

Prospective students need to review the techniques available, and consider what will work for them. We don't ask anyone to take our word for it - we just want to highlight the techniques that are available, and communicate why we think they are so effective.

There are also grave doubts about the validity of the research that Asher conducted to my mind. I won't bore the forum with them because I think regardless of any other points what I've already said is a knockdown argument. However, I'd be happy to privately send anyone a detailed critique of Asher's article by PM if they want it. If you read Asher's article and find yourself, apparently like Lanta, feeling persuaded - send me a PM and I'l tell you exactly why its BS.

By the way, I am an academic in a public educational institution and am not in competition with any language school - nor do I sell a method of language learning - just in case anyone might wonder about my own 'vested interests' (i.e, i have none).

I would like to read a PM detailing your critique Softwater. It's always good to read another's perspective - especially a fellow educational professional. Two of the staff at Lanta School have a bachelors degree in education, and the course coordinator has a masters in educational design and multi media, so the decision to select these methods was not based on simply reading and buying into some hype. We have the best interests of students of the Thai language at heart. Our interest is in promoting methods we believe to be effective - which I guess is exactly where you are coming from too.. Do you believe that traditional methods are more effective? What methods of teaching do you support?

I've been arguing for years at my institution that the key to success in language is nothing other than repetition, and that repetition is boring (I even used the same analogy as you about music, only i referred to riffing like Jimi Hendrix rather than playing the piano!)

Computers, DVDs, podcasts etc etc are all just ways of increasing repetition. Unfortunately, in Thailand there seems to be this constant beliefe that some new technology will 'magically' improve students learning, and everyone gets in a sweat shouting that we must use youtube or podcasts or whatever the latest fad is in the classroom, or we will be 'outdated'. There is no magic to language learning - just repeat, repeat, repeat.

The only thing I disagree with about your methodology is the idea that adults should learn like children. Actually, it's far easier for adults to learn to read and write a foreign language first and use that as a basis for their oral skills. The cognitive abilities of children and adults are utterly dissimilar, not least because, unlike children, we learn a second langauge by translation.

We agree that repetition is key to learning, however we also believe that it is equally important to deliver the repetition in a varied format that engages the student. This way the student will have more scenarios to draw on in order to recall the word from their memory, plus they will not get so easily bored and “switch off” from the learning process.

Let’s take the word “laugh” as an example.

If you hear the word “laugh” while also seeing someone “laugh” you have a visual to associate the word laugh with.

If you hear the word “laugh” again, but this time it’s because you have actually laughed. Then – not only do you have a visual reference for the word “laugh”, but you also have an actual feeling and experience to draw on.

Let’s say you’re then introduced to the word laugh in a vocabulary list – now can you also draw on translation from your own language if you wish.

Now imagine that you have videos, sound files and computer games all designed to keep reintroducing you to the word “laugh”.

Having changed our methods of teaching from traditional techniques, to these new, more interactive and varied techniques, we know that students find it much easier to remember words this way – plus their feedback shows that they have more fun in the process.

With regards to your comment about the learning methods of children – versus that of the adult. We understand your point, however the scientists that we base our courses on believe that we do not actually lose our ability to learn in certain ways when we grow older, but that we “forget” or “cover” our old learning methods, with those methods that we adopt through our school years and beyond. These scientists also believe that by “uncovering” and “relearning” these techniques, adults will find it a lot easier to pick up a second language.

I guess the point is that our brains don’t learn in a different way when we are adults, due to nature... but more they are nurtured into learning this way, through traditional educational systems. By going back to the basics of how a child learns their native language, and applying some of the theories – students stand a much better chance of grasping a second language. Again the increased success rate we have witnessed since we changed our methods supports this theory.

@LantaSchool

Thanks for this nice summary, and I don't wish to unduly criticise what seems a well-intentioned post; however, there are a couple of myths here about the psychology of language acquisition and about the Thai language I should like to point out for those just starting out and choosing a language school.

Point 5 about Thai being a 'high-context' language seems right enough, but it's not quite accurate to say Thais cannot use 'tone' the way other languages do. Thai is 'tonal', but the word 'tone' has a very specific, and quite limited application in reference to Thai. Like English, Thai speakers can and do use intonation, as well as vary stress, pitch, volume and tempo (all of which may generally, if inaccurately, be connoted by the word English word 'tone' in the wider sense) to reflect emotions. The sound of an angry voice, to take a blunt example, can be similarly recognised in both Thai and English by a speakers' intonation, stress, volume and so on even if one has no knowledge or understanding of the vocabulary. The idea that because Thai is a 'tonal' language, emotions can only be understood in context is, at best, a bit of an over-simplification. Switch on channel 3, close your eyes, and even a beginner will be able to tell the differene between two lovers smooching and two 'ladies' cat fighting!

Points 1 and 2 are more of a worry in terms of misleading new language learners. I agree physical activities can make language learning fun and interesting and can help to cognitively cement new vocabulary. However, that is not to say that this is i. the only way or ii. the best way to learn a language. People respond positively to different kinds of teaching methods. Personally, I would not enjoy going to a class where a teacher tried to make me engage in "child-like" learning games. To imply that people who share my aversion to this kind of 'role play' are reducing their chances of successfully acquiring a new language is, at best, misleading.

It is also manifestly false that learning from a vocab list will condemn you to translation as stated in point 2. I'd hazard a guess that most of those reading this post who have picked up Thai as a second language learned ห้วเราะ in just that way and can use it, and much other vocab, quite reflexively. Whether someone translates before parsing meaning has nothing to do with how they learned words but with the frequency in which they meet and use those expresssions.

Finally, if you're choosing a school for the first time, please beware the BS about 'natural learning'. Despite what a lot of 'quick-fix' language schools say to generate business (i'm not suggesting this about Lanta, i don't know anything about them, my point is general), there is NO valid research that shows adults can learn a language like a child.

Our cognitive abilities are utterly unalike, not least because children learn a language while discovering the world, developing social interaction skills and expanding their cognitive and conceptual abilities. Language plays an essential role in their psychological development. They are hard-wiring their brains through language as they physically and psychologically mature. For adults, this process has already taken place, which means adult language learns have always to deal with interference from their native language and the habitual hard-wiring of their brain. This point is so widely accepted in academic circles, its barely credible that so many schools get away with perpetuating the "learn naturally like a child" myth. Of course, it sells seats, but I would strongly advise anyone looking for a good school to avoid this kind of charlatanism (indeed, it would be interesting to hear from any of the more advanced non-native speakers of Thai who populate this site whether ANY of them had learned 'naturally like a child' - i'm betting my rather inedible hat that the number is absolute zero!)

All that said, once again, I do think you made a nice summary of some points worth sharing.

Hello Softwater

Thank you for your eloquent reply, and I'm glad you liked our summary.

I'm not allowed to place a link, there is a website which can provide details on some of the research and evidence accumulated to support the concept that learning through experience and action is far more effective when learning a language. If you google TPR World Review Evidence I think it comes out top. Please note this site has nothing to do with our school...

I would also like to highlight that we have chosen to adopt these methods, as we were unsatisfied with the results traditional methods were providing. We closed our school for 6 months to research educational science, and find out how we could help people to learn Thai more easily. We developed our courses based on our findings, and we tested, tested and tested before introducing them to paying students. As a result, we have witnessed a dramatic increase in the success rate of students. Over the last 6 months 100% of our students have passed their final exams, all of which are based on the same structure as the Cambridge ESOL, a highly regarded qualification.

In summarisation:

Students will benefit if they

1. Learn by activity and doing, using both brain hemispheres to learn.

2. Learn by a lot of interaction with the teacher, and learn how to put together their own sentences by listening and understanding interaction, not by repeating dialogues.

3. Use translation to avoid confusion, when understanding from context is too hard or time consuming

4. Learn how to read Thai early but start with words and sentences that they already understand

We truly believe that these methods are the most effective, that's why we have chosen to use them. These methods open the door to more people – making it easier for everyone to learn Thai – not just those who have an aptitude for learning a second language. That's not to say that people can't learn Thai in other ways though J

It all comes down to personal preference and choice.

Hi there

We’ve carried out a lot of research into the most effective way to learn Thai.

You mentioned trying to learn to speak from dictionaries and on-line resources – did any of those place a heavy emphasis on listening? Listening plays a major role... you need to be able to identify the tones. This may be difficult at first. But if you have some learning sources which provide you with some kind of visual assistance as well – such as hand movements indicating tones while they are being spoken – that will help.

Also – look for a resource where the words are conveyed in combination with actions... this will help you to think in Thai and digest the language far more than if you were calling on your memories traces from your native language to understand the meaning of a word. For example – learn the word smile, while you are smiling. Relate the word to an emotion or an action J, rather than the equivalent meaning in your native language.

Try to avoid translation as much as possible, and pick a resource that teaches you solely in the Thai language, conveying the meaning through actions and visuals...

Start by learning to understand some spoken Thai before learning to read. It is much easier to read words that you already know. Learn by listening, not by reading transliteration. Use transliteration only as memory aid of words that you already know the sound of.

Focus on recognising the tones of the words and practice pronunciation. Exaggerate the tones when you speak. Then imitate the tones in full sentences. When you come to grips with how to say the different tones you can go on to learn reading.

I hope that helps. You can find more useful tips on the most effective way to learn Thai – if you google “the most effective way to learn thai”. Good luck, and have fun!!!

Hi All

We offer effective Thai language courses, but our motive for posting to this forum is not necessarily a direct promotion of our school, but more to advise you of what we have learned in our research into effective methods for learning a second language.

Whichever school or course you choose – here are some things for you to consider:

1. If you learn by doing, seeing, feeling and experiencing, as well as listening, your knowledge of the language will grow far more naturally and it will become much more deeply engrained at a subconscious level. Think about how easy we pick up our native language as children, and consider how we learn. Research shows that these methods can be adopted into adult learning as well. So choose a course that engages all of your senses in the learning process. A course that helps you to relate a word to a particular feeling or action - For example - learn the word laugh, by hearing it repeatedly while you are laughing. Or learn the word "jump" while you are jumping up and down. Learn the numbers while being told (in Thai) to jump up and down once, twice, three times etc....

2. By learning from an action or feeling, you will learn to "think" in Thai. If you learn from a vocabulary list, you will only learn the translation, and will constantly need to translate from your own language before speaking. This will inhibit any conversations.

3. Listening plays a huge role in learning the Thai language. As it is a tonal language, your ears need to become much more attuned to listening for changes in note, in order to interpret the meaning. However many westerners may struggle with this as they are not used to listening so acutely. A good course will therefore use some kind of visual aid to help you become more familiar with the tones - arm signals for example, to indicate rising, falling etc.....

4. Make sure that any course introduces you to new words, and then repeatedly re-introduces the words in varied formats. This way you will be able to draw on your memory of many different scenarios relating to that particular word. The varied formats could be actions, sound files, games and videos of real life scenarios.

5. Make sure that the school or course you use really does understand the Thai culture. This goes without saying really... but the best way to understand the Thai culture is to be taught by a Thai-speaking person. This is particularly important when learning Thai as it is what is known as a "HIGH CONTEXT" language. They cannot use tone to express emotion, and they do not like to lose face... with this in mind you really need to become familiar with what is assumed to be "understood" among Thai people, given the context of a situation.

6. Reading and writing also plays a vital role in learning to speak Thai. Although you may not be interested in the reading and writing aspect of the Thai language... having some knowledge of the alphabet will assist you immensely when learning to speak. You will start to gain much more assistance from things such as signposts for example....

There are many other things to consider... but I hope these points help you sieve through some of the many options available to you...

Most of all - remember... the Thai language is fun to learn, enjoy your journey into the culture and the language...

Good luck!!