mesa55

OK now kidnapping??? Shut the f%#$%&@ down!

Many of the reds are Maoists. They are staging a revolution now, don't be fooled. As Mao said, A revolution is not a tea party. Anything goes with this amoral crowd. But the winners won't be the Thai poor people who think they are going to win. It will be the elites again as usual, the red elites, but even more brutal and undemocratic.

And would you care to show your evidence for this claim?

Has anyone actually got anything constructive to say ... i.e. well researched approaches for solution etc ....???

It would maybe be of greater interest than calling each other "crack heads" ....

You should look at Bangkok Pundit's blog. He has some information about a push from Thai academics to resolve the current crisis.

Thanks ... I have already read this, and yes, this is exactly the right stuff ... it appears that the infighting on the forum sometime - ufortunately - outweighs the real object of the discussion ...

Yes, I agree. No problem. BP is a great researcher. Much better than the stuff I get here from The Nation or The Bangkok Post.

Had a good laugh about this "kidnapping", for sure they will not slaughter him.

On a more serious tone: This might attract the public attention on the ongoing censorship in Thailand in which CAT plays a crucial executing role. Life without proxys or tor software becomes impossible here.

At least http://www.prachatai.org/english/ is online again and the only real source of information.

I do not like this screen, it justifies by itself already a revolution.

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Killing frredom of speech is same killing people.

I second this. I hope that more awareness is raised towards the rampant censorship in Thailand.

wonder what's going through Abhisit's mind right now.

If he had acted quicker in the first place and arrested all red shirt demonstrators, handcuffed them and piled them into police trucks, none of this would have happened.

A lot of Thai people are openly asking me, "what must you think of our country?"

Wouldn't be surprised of the PM asks Obama for military help on this one. Strangers things have happened.

Arisaman will be up on kidnapping charges now , when they catch him he will go away for quite a while.

No influential Thai does time. How long you been here?

Long enough to know that anything is likely in Thailand.

I really doubt that the US will get involved in this, the yellow shirts tend to have rather poor view of Americans in general, from my experience. THey tned to look more towards the UK. And the UK for sure isn't going to get involved in this mess.

Has anyone actually got anything constructive to say ... i.e. well researched approaches for solution etc ....???

It would maybe be of greater interest than calling each other "crack heads" ....

You should look at Bangkok Pundit's blog. He has some information about a push from Thai academics to resolve the current crisis.

this is going out of control.......practically they are doing whatever they want to do...........no law here..........

There is absolutely no law here. Just look at the traffic on the roads. Police driving against the traffic, or on the sidewalk, all without a helmet. Everyone running red lights, playing Russian Roulette, not just with their own life but with mine and yours. These are just easily observable instances of disregard for any law. We all have heard of, and probably many are familiar with, corruption at all levels.

Unfortunately Thai's think they have a democracy because they can ignore laws at will. Until they realize a democracy insists that everyone obeys the laws for the good of all, this is the kind of behavior to expect.

Simply put, it is in the culture. What are we at now, 18 coups out of 19 changes in government? I'm thinking 19 out of 20 is almost a certainty.

I don't think that you should place all of the Thai people in the same category as those who willfully break the law. Just because some do it does not mean that the general public does, or supports doing so. I think that most Thais want to rid the country of its corruption problems, and aren't really complacent with it at all. There just seems to be an overriding lack of willingness to make a fuss about things, to challenge those who are in authority, or to challenge anyone for that matter.

It seems, however, that this is changing with the apparent widespread support for the protest movement(s), and the newfound willingness of people to question why things have to be the way they are, on both sides of the political spectrum.

Mob rule

Maybe.

PTV is back online.

I wonder how Abhisit feels about the reds being able to circumvent his authority like this...? I also wonder why the reds always manage to overpower the security forces at these ICT offices so quickly...

I've heard the idea that the government is purposefully allowingt he protest leaders to do this so that they can build up legal cases against them and take them out later... I don't know if that has any evidence to support it or not.

<deleted>?????????

What are they going to do with him???

no problem: he get a free ride: he goes for inspecting and for reconnecting the broadband. In order to be sure it will correctly done, Arisaman will pay the motorcycle for him....

and now you are condoning kidnapping (at least you certainly appear to be condoning it!) There goes one of the few moderate voices for the Reds that I have seen on here. It is now impossible not to lump you in with the rest that condone this type of violence. (Yes kidnapping is violence.)

Arisman and the reds have added kidnapping clearly to the list of crimes the red leadership is guilty of now. (since some people have chosen to look at holding the Thai soldiers as kidnapping!)

I don't think that this really qualifies as a real kidnapping, as it does not appear from the text that the CEO was forcibly removed from the building. Also, if he didn't want to go, he could just get off the motorcycle.

Per the Thai soldiers, I believe that was not a form of hostage taking or kidnapping, but rather an attempt by the red-shirt guards to keep them in a safe place until the hostilities ended. According to what i read, the soldiers got lost in a cloud of tear gas without masks on, and wound up heading towards the red shirts. It takes time for the effects of that gas to wear off, you know.

I think that you should be careful not to fall into the trap of 'labeling' events in a way which reflects a subjective opinion (or blindly believing the labels that others apply to situations).

<deleted>?????????

What are they going to do with him???

no problem: he get a free ride: he goes for inspecting and for reconnecting the broadband. In order to be sure it will be correctly done, Arisaman will pay the motorcycle for him....

This is a new method for fixing your TV at home instead to wait several days for repairing...

hahah! They should start this as a new method for express service at immigration services!

"If your wait in line is too long, just go ahead and kidnap the immigration office supervisor on a motorbike and ride him around town. Maybe he'll stamp your passport faster next time you come."

<deleted>?????????

What are they going to do with him???

Does anyone have some confirmation of the Red-Shirts 'declaring war' in response to the SOE decree???

Has this been reported by any other news agency than TAN (Thai ASEAN News)?

Is it now legal to take up arms against these insurgents? Even for us civilians that may or may not have access to weapons?

No. Don't be stupid.

In practical terms, this means that the military is pre-absolved for any massacres they commit, people may be detained indefinitely without warrant or charges, and all media broadcast and print in the affected areas can be shuttered at a moments notice with no appeal or judicial review.

Anupong got the "get out of jail free" card he wanted before unleashing his dogs. There's no need for a coup, since under the emergency decree the military is in charge of everything. Abhisit and Suthep have now been removed from any effective control of anything.

And for the pollster, you can count this farang out of the vast majority you purport to speak for. The English language press is a farce, parroting undercounts, and expressing the wish of the "vast majority" of Bangkok as well. You obviously haven't seen the enthusiastic support that the Reds have received from the ordinary folks on the street as they pass by. And somehow you missed the Chao Phraya riverbanks and bridges being lined with supporters from Ayuthaya to Krungthep for the flotilla, and the same on Highway 2 from Nong Khai to Korat, leading up to the initial rally. So, go ahead and believe what you read in the Nation and BP.

A big part of the problem is that Bangkok purports to speak for Thailand. The more I see, the more I know it's not true. Concentrating the nations power and wealth into one sinking stinking cesspool guarantees that the battles for control will be fought there. If decentralization had truly been brought to Siam, then most of the issues would not even exist, and your concrete jungle wouldn't be ground zero.

I second this.

In the interest of our survival as foreigners in Thailand, maybe we shoudn't be expressing such strong opinions on the matter, seeing as there is now a SOE...

I'm all for freedom of speech, but I don't really think that its prudent for us (as farangs) to take sides in this showdown. We are guests in Thailand, and as such should try to remain uninvolved.

Just my two cents worth...

So what will be the difference?? The state of emergency was declared under really elected governments too. Soldiers did nothing. Anupong does not have the stomach to act now either. He has learned his lesson. He will not become the pawn in Suthep's and his bellboy Abhisit's game.

Declaration of a State of Emergency places full control in the hands of the Army, which theoretically is under the control of Defense Minister and Deputy PM Suthep Thuagsuban.

Essentially it clears the way for the government to use the means which it deems necessary to restore order. In practice, the gives the government the legal authority to do whatever it wants, in the name of the public interest.

Declaration of a State of Emergency does not necessarily mean that the tanks will "roll out", but instead means that the government has the legal authority to deploy them, if it feels that will be in the public interest.

Relative to the protests, I speculate that the government will try and clear the protest sites around Bangkok, forcibly, if the protesters refuse to leave voluntarily.