Bouffant

Hi-

My husband is getting immunotherapy in the USA for lung cancer.  We would like to look into immunotherapy options in Thailand. (Bangkok or Chiang Mai)

I am not a Bumrungard fan. I notice that Chulalongkorn Comprehensive Cancer Center seems to have it. They have no email contact and dont have much info online

Does anyone know about immunotherapy in Thailand?  Places that offer it and approximate price?

He needs an infusion of chemo and immunotherapy every 3 or 4 weeks.

Thanks immensely!

HI!

I read Sheryl's post about the best price (and I trust Sheryl) for a colonoscopy, written back a few years (2011?). It was St Louis Hospital. At that time around 13,000, including overnight-before stay in non-private room. Their price now is 30,000- not including room. (I just called.) I am alone and from out of town, so I would do the room in hosp night before and don't really care if it is private. or would take a decent hotel practically across the street from said hospital or clinic. But would like better price than 30,000 if possible. I do not speak thai, do not have friends who speak thai here to middle man for me and don't know the ropes here well. I live in Bali. Nope you wouldn't want to do it there.I just do need to be able to manage communications by myself with said hospital or clinic and am trying to save money/ do not want to go to most expensive tourist hospitals.

I have no symptoms but am almost 60 and my father got coon cancer so figure I should do this. Wahoo.

Would super appreciate recommendations. Thanks very much in advance!

Hmm- Interesting what member chang mai found at the "MyThaiDoctors" site.

When I used it almost 2 years ago, I posted all my doctor reviews which included both laudatory and some truly scathing reviews of Bumrungrad doctors. At that time I saw no censorship or favoritism generated by the site.

I did see that the site was barely used, which I thought would discourage the site owner from maintaining it, particularly if he had already moved out of Thailand.

At that time it did seem like the search and software could be made use of freely by consumers despite any affiliation by the website owner. .

Popular and easy to use consumer review sites TripAdvisor and Yelp.com (in the US) both accept advertising, and will bump their advertisers to the top of lists like google will, and Yelp will inform a paying business owner whenever there is a review so if it is negative they can respond immediately if they so wish. Yet both sites work wonderfully to empower the consumer to quickly sort through many businesses, and 50 reviews don't lie (if you read them and use your head) whereas I find it easy to determine if a review site or even a few reviews are a plant.

On this site (God bless this site) you have to dig hard for comments about doctors-particularly if you want suggestions to find a doctor and are not researching a given doctor- and most comments are are years old.

When I used MyThaiDoctor 2 years ago after some medical work in Thailand, I thought, "Boy, the owner is going to stop paying the webhosting bill for this site as it is so poorly used by consumers." If the site was a front to make some docs appear like the best, it would certainly seem like the owner would have been engaged more actively in that, but the site was just plain dead. Maybe it has changed since then.

Bumrungrad has at least one paid employee to monitor ThaiVisa and respond quickly to any complaints. (I'm not a Bumrungrad fan, to say the least. Terrible experience there.)

Not to argue with you chain mai, and the site might have changed since I used it. It is just most frustrating to have to dig so hard on this site, or make newbie comments like "can somebody recommend a good doctor for..." to which usually only a few people will respond, and for which there are is already info on this site but most will be too lazy to dig it out.

There is a site called Qype.com for reviews of anything, anywhere. Great site but nobody knows about it so it doesn't have the critical mass one needs.

I just feel consumer rating sites are so very important to consumer empowerment.

Here is what I don't understand:

Some self-sacrificing and generous fellow who had a bad experience with a pediatrician took the time to create and incredibly well-designed Thai doctor-rating site called MyThaiDoctor. When I last saw it, it had been around for a few years and there was no adverting or promotion on it. And it did not seem that many people (at all) were taking advantage of it.

Why? This could be so very useful and consumer-empowering if people would just use it.

I tried searching for an experienced medical doctor in reading medical screening tests ,at Bumrungrad hospital but could not .

I need an excellent doctor who can read, and find the precise diagnose , and not try to "expect' or "guess" as many whom I've consulted.

Can you kindly recommend a certain doctor for a comprehensive medical check up at Bumrungrad?

Again, here is a situation where you, a stranger, have to go on a forum and hope that one kind soul will recommend a good doctor to you when you need one- and heaven only knows how soon you need this doctor, whether you are in Thailand temporarily from out of the country, etc.

There is a consumer rating site called MyThaiDoctors (not run by a clinic or someone with an ax to grind) where you can read consumer reviews of doctors, but people don't use it much. It could be so helpful if only a critical mass of people would share both their positive and negative experiences there, I suggest you try that. SOME doctors have been reviewed- I know I do my reviews. Then I really really hope you will think of the next person in your position who needs opinions and that you will review any doctors you see in Thailand there.

I know Bumrungrad has some medical checkup programs where they put you through lots of tests. I would think these would be general and then if there was something specific found you'd see a specialist for that issue, not just "see a doctor who would interpret all the results". I also think doctors tend to be noncommittal, even in the U.S.

While I agree that the CVs provided for Bumrungrad's doctors may not be authenticated, it still helps me to run down and pay an astronomical price to use the internet on the ground floor at Bumrungrad and look up the doctors' listings before booking with them. You should also google them at the same time which can be revealing. One guy I was considering seeing for a breast biopsy I also googled and saw that he worked at a cancer hospital. A lot of the docs at Bumrungrad are consultants who work elsewhere that Bumrungrad calls in as needed. As it turned out this guy REALLY knew his stuff and I was super happy with him at a critical time when I needed someone in whom I felt very confident.

I'm very grateful to know about this hospital in Singapore! And the general opinions about the Singapore hospitals in comparison!

When I had my breast cancer scare, I called a hospital in Singapore to also consider, but Bumrungrad had under-quoted me on the price so I was afraid the Singapore hospital was going to be the same quality but more expensive, so I decided not to go there.. Then when I got to Bumrungrad they said they'd made a mistake on the price, raised the price a lot (above what the Singapore hospital had quoted me!) and refused to honor the price they had given me *in writing*. This severely undermined my confidence at a time when I felt very vulnerable and scared- I thought maybe it was a "rubber pricing" type deal so my trust just went down to zero since that seemed so scammy to me. I ended up staying in Bangkok a lot longer as a result and it cost me a lot more because I then felt I had to shop around and talk to lots of different doctors.

So in short, the medical care is all over the map at Bumrungrad, and can be good but is not necessarily good by any means. They see WAY, WAY too many patients to control quality the way we'd hope and wish, in my opinion. I wish you luck. And please help others- share your doctor reviews!

whoops "food in a retardant" was supposed to be "food in a restart"

I I'm sorry to hear, Cheryl, that you seem to be philosophically against the credibility of all consumer review sites. To me they are possibly the single most empowering thing the internet has given us as consumers.

In Asia where they have not caught on much yet, - you can find sites with only one or two reviews that are "puff pieces" by the staff or friends of the doctor. Personally I consider myself savvy enough to spot those. And sadly we don't have a medical site yet with the critical mass for them to be of much use *yet*. I think MyThaiDoctor.com really has that potential, because it is unsponsored and not a 'front" for some medical business.

But if you take a site like "Yelp.com" and the city where it is most popular, San Francisco, people are adding daily to their ratings about products and services of all kinds. When you have a hundred reviews, they become quite credible. They have so any reviews that you can even tell if the food in a retardant was good a year ago bit has declined in the last month! A site like that also rates the reviewers and shuffles the reviews or the most credible reviewers to the top and weights them more. If the reviewer only has a couple of reviews, their credibility goes down. Yelp has LOADS of good reviews- it’s as good a resource for finding good places as it is for finding places to avoid. AsiaRooms is like that too!

You are sure right- the sure is no substitute for checking a doctor's credentials and you can't do that on a consumer review site and fortunately it is easier and easier to do online! But I myself had a horrible experience at Bumrungrad by a doctor with "good credentials" -he just had a horrible bedside manner and a slipshod and inaccurate approach to giving estimates, which in turn the hospital did not honor. A doc with a good education and many years experience can still be someone you so wish in retrospect that you’d been warned about or can feel better about seeing having read patient feedback that you- using the power of personal evaluation and critical thinking- deem credible.

True also, Cheryl- you are so right! No hospital is a panacea or a guarantee of good medical care. I wish there had been more consumer reviews and a site I'd known about earlier and before my bad experience with Bumrungrad that I could have easily consulted before my bad experience there, back in the days when i naively thought it WAS a panacea for excellent medical care. I could have been so much better prepared and saved myself confusion, panic, delay and a lot of money! Instead I had to learn the hard way.

Look at all the people who still show up from the Middle East thinking all they have to do is walk thru the doors of Bumrungrad to be assured of good medical care! If Bumrungrad knew there were more GOOD consumer feedback sites, it would help so many people make informed decisions and would also force Bumrungrad and all medical providers in Thailand to better self-regulate as we wait for better government regulations and redress. I do believe their doctor-monitoring would go up in quality very quickly if there were a popular, credible and well-used consumer review site. Personally I’d like to help myself avoid the need for redress by having access to good consumer feedback sites. I’m such a big fan of them and consider it my civic duty to contribute both my positive and negative experiences.

RE over supply of medicines...

I believe it is standard practice for the pharmacists to get 'commission' for each batch of pills/medicines they buy...

And ,of course, not only does oversubscribing raise the chance of more commission but there is always the 'sell by date'....

I well remember being given so many pills for a graze on my arm [motorcycle] that I threw the lot away after the mass dosage prescribed resulted in my throwing the lot up on first taking the 'dose'.

I had similar experiences over the years in Bangkok Hospital where I went for 15 years;

in the end the raise in prices and over-supply of medications and services was excessive; I asked my doctor if he could write me prescriptions for an outside pharmacy so the price of my medications would be 70 % less expensive but he told me he would not do it, asking me if I wanted the in-house prescription or if I wanted to go elsewhere. I took the hint. I think the big hospitals in Bangkok are positioning themselves to more lucrative markets than only the residing expat community (wealthier patients from countries close to Thailand, from the Middle East).

BNH seems to not have gone this route for the moment, but it is also raised it prices more quickly the last few years.

I think there is value in smaller hospitals which offer excellent care but don't label themselves as 'international', e.g. Saint-Louis on Sathorn .

Hi- I started this thread many months ago after an appalling experience at Bumrungrad, a hospital about which I had formerly been a big fan.

Alas, Bumrungrad can no longer be viewed (if it ever could be, but I say it could be to some degree and can't be at all anymore) as a great reliableplace where you just walk in and get all your medical care taken care of secure in the knowlegde that you are getting excellent medical care.

But for those of you who say "do your homework", may I say that's all well and good for those of you who live in Bangkok and have done so for a long time and can easily yo use your contacts to get good referrals. There are those of us who dont have a cell phone full of contacts in Thailand to call, and sometimes things happen somewhat suddenly and you need advice quickly.

On the internet you are confronted with sponsored sites run by doctors and clinics masquerading as having valid, even-handed customer feedback.

Hree in ThaiVisa, there are so many threads that information is very patchy, while I REALLY appreciate the fact that this site is here and the many people who contribute for the sake of contributing without an axe to grind. (Some DO have axes to grind and are "on the job" so keep your eye out for them, newcomers.)

But here is what I dont understand. This site: MyThiaDoctors.com us supported only by random Google ads and no paid sponsors. Why dont more people participate there by adding their doctor rviews, bth positive and negative? This is s potentially such an amazing resource. I can; t promise you that I do contribute my reviews. But when I want t a review there are so few there. A site like that is so empowering to consumers.

Here on this site, if you need advice and help finding a doctor, you have to hope some experienced person will be kind enough to donate their time with your unique question- that's a lot of work- try to search for things and it's going to be patchy. (But at leass a good portion of it is genuine!) I'm not knocking this site- I'm SO glad it's here. But what I fodont get its why people will not take the time to just submit their reviews to MyThaiDoctors.com? It only takes a few mintes.

It's a huge amount of work for a medical tourist to try to troll through a hospital's doctor files, and sure you can see where they were educated but you can't see what their patients thought of them.

When I was in Bangkok last summer with my breast cancer scare, it was TERRIFYING when I felt like I was on my own where I didn't speak the language and I unexpectedly had to find good (excellent!) doctors to consult. I didn't have months to stay in a hotel and research it. It ended up costing me so much more because my experience at Bumrungrad made me so wary and I had to staty over sereval weeks to try to find doctors and get opinions. It was nightmarishly expensive.

Most sites that pretend to be informational about Thai medical care are sponsored by hospitals clinics and doctors who are slanting the information to get business. MyThaiDoctors is the only site that was set up solely to help people make an informed decision.

I want to say THANK YOU to the person who set up this site, and get off your lazy butts to the people who need good advice, search for it on the internet, want other people to answer their questions about doctors and hospitals and then will not take the time to write a review here- good or bad- about the doctors they visit.

If you've lived in Bangkok a long time, you probably have a network of people from whom to get your recommendations. The rest of us have almost no time for doctor shopping when we come as medical tourists and need honest reviews desperately.

Readers- won't you PLEASE do your part and contribute your doctor reviews here? They will be there when you need them and others will be able to find them when they need them. I contribute my reviews, and I need to be able to find information here!

And by the way, freedom of speech is not an assumed right in Asia the way it is in the west; don't assume it is. The person who set up this site took a certain amount of risk. Support them by contributing your reviews to this well-thought out, well-organized site that was a LOT OF WORK to create and a gift to all of us!

THIS IS A FANTASTIC SITE WHERE YOU CAN FIND UNBIASED THAI DOCTOR REVIEWS AND THE BEST THAI DOCTORS if ****YOU*** contribute!!

Please pitch in! Help us all!

Thanks for the soapbox-

"Bouffant" ; )

I noticed recently that their has been a new law passed that is alot stricter on doctor malpractice. Hopefully this will have a knock on effect and doctors will stop being so lazy. One thing for sure I would never get an operation here, just would no way trust it....

Plus the education system is now being recognized as a bit of a joke (by thais) so hopefully things will get better soon

I have to mention here that the malpractice thing got so out of hand in the US that it made medical care "impossible" for people who do not work for corporations. But we will hope for a happy medium. If consumers can communicate about medical care, bad doctors will be in trouble.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, Bouffant. I was also much less happy with Bumrungrad my last time there (December 2008) than I had been before. Prices have gone up, in part due to Ben Bernanke's intentional efforts to devalue the USD. However, service quality had also declined significantly, in my opinion.

A friend just returned from having multiple surgical procedures done in Penang, Malaysia. She is very happy with how she was treated there. I believe she went to both the Adventist and Gleneagles hospitals.

That's great to know...I have saved that info... although I always found Malaysia to be a bit overpriced (for what you get in terms of cultural charm, etc) and it sure doesn't have the charm of Thailand. If one is going to travel internationally, one would like to enjoy the place.

Yes, this last month in Bangkok was sad in a way because I was paying prices for hotel rooms and meals that I would be paying in my hometown in the USA.(Admittedly., I do not eat street food because I don't understand what it is and I live in fear of hot peppers, and try to eat vegetarian.) I was sad to see that happen, but then I realized, if this was the country of MY birth and they were moving forward like Bangkok has I would be very proud. I mean Bangkok is a swanky, fashionable "great city of the world" now.

I used to find the prices in Bangkok- for everything- great. So yes I can commiserate with those of you who live there. Everything has gone up.

Hey Sheryl,

Oh my- you are right Sheryl- my mistake; I really feel bad.

I was mistaken- I got my exchange rate numbers wrong- the mammogram wasn't nearly that expensive. (I'm still trying to figure out how I spent $USD2000 just on checkups and some prescriptions) but anyway I was WRONG ABOUT THE MAMMOGRAM BEING SO EXPENSIVE!

CORRECTION:

THE MAMMOGRAM WAS REASONABLY- PRICED AT BUMRUNGRAD!

I think an office for patient concerns is a FANTASTIC idea. It will also let Bumrungrad doctors know that they cannot run amok; that the patients are well-informed about a place they can easily go to report unsatisfactory care.

I think the sad lesson learned is that:

1) the big hospitals in Thailand who have built up good reputations and large followings are now raising their prices and are not what they used to be for us. We may be able to count on some of them for good care, but not for good prices anymore.

2) We need to keep in touch, as consumers, and make information about good doctors and good medical resources available to one another.

3) We can't do "one stop shopping" at any of these hospitals anymore. We have to pick and choose which doctors to see there, and ask EVERY SINGLE TIME what the price will be before going ahead.

4) For those of us who don't live in Thailand, this is an even bigger loss and disappointment. Those of you who live there can get you mammogram at the National Cancer Institute (for example- I haven;t confirmed that yet) and you r teeth cleaned at Dentist X and buy your prescription meds in the pharmacy neighborhood, etc. Those of us from other countries are going to be at an extreme disadvantage, getting the info, racing all over town when we don't know the way around that well, and on time-limited trips, etc

5) Don't go to an overcrowded, bursting-at-the-seams hospital and expect first rate care no matter how well-intentioned the hosptial staff may be..

There is a member here from Bumrungrad who is doing his best to try to field comments made about the hospital on ThaiVisa. To him I want to say that I'm certain there is staff at Bumrungrad doing an outstanding job- I mentioned some of them. I'm certain there are people there who take pride in what they do, want Bumrungrad to provide the best possible care and genuinely care about the patients.

I just think there needs to be more quality control and standards that are monitored and enforced. It gets next to impossible when you are herding over a million patients a year through your facilty. Things are definitely going wrong. People are getting trampled; I got trampled. A few screw ups or bad apples will definitely reflect on the whole hospital's reputation.

I really can't blame Bumrungrad, as busy as it is, for raising their prices. I was just very disappointed because it wasn't the Bumrungrad anymore that I had known,respected, relied upon and appreciated so much. I used to go every year and then I did not go for three years. When I visited again recently it had changed a lot. I'm really going to miss having the resource there I once had. It's going to be MUCH more trouble to seek out medical care and go around to differnt places to see different doctors.

This site that Rumpole mentioned, MyThaiDoctors.com, doesn't seem really like anyone is minding the store- in a way that's a good thing because it makes it appear it isn't just an advertising front. But people get tired of pet projects that drain their time- it looks like this site isn't getting updated in terms of the blog, but at least people are putting their reviews up there (occasionally). By participating in something like that - or commenting here- we can empower the patient and help each other.

I appreciate the remarks of support from others here regarding my complaints and observations; I feared I was just going to sound like a cranky lady.

I'm going to put all my doctor reviews on mythaidoctors.com and perhaps here, too- I had a bit of a hard time doing good searches on ThaiVisa, but maybe I'm just not doing it right and don't know the ropes here well enough. I want others to be able to find the medical information they need, and I certainly am going to be needing resources for research for future medical adventures.

That's fantastic! After my recent medical adventures I was feeling like I ought to do something like that myself. I am so looking forward to checking out this site! Thank you for that!

I'd like to thank Sheryl for her help and for those of you who have voiced support for my frustrations.

Bumrungrad has really changed. All things change, but sadly this change is really a loss for expats in Southeast Asia and people from other countries who have come to Thailand for good and reasonably- priced medical care. It's sad for me to no longer be able to think of Bummer-Grad as a "reliable place for great prices, great care and one stop shopping" like have so many of us who travel to Thailand to take care of our medical care at Bumrungrad. They actually advertise the fact that they see a million patients a year. Do you want to go someplace that attempts to process a million patients a year? Maybe good for MacDonalds or Disneyland, but not for medical care.

Bumrungrad is now trying to position itself as "Almost Western Care at Almost Western Prices" instead of "the reliable place for great prices, great care and one stop shopping" it once was. They are not at all succeeding in providing almost Western care yet in my opinion and they certainly do not have the overhead expense to justify the prices. For those people who would like and can afford to go to the West for medical care but don't want to monkey with the visa hassles, Bumrungrad is for them, but not for the rest of us anymore.

Thaisomchai, you are SO RIGHT that you need to be your own medical advocate. That is what I learned in these last 6 weeks with my breast cancer scare, which, I am so happy to announce, turned out to be completely benign. Unfortunately I was unprepared to do that, I didn't know I needed to do that; I was used to trusting Bumrungrad! As a foreigner who has only visited Thailand about 8 times, I was completely unprepared to find alternative sources for second opinions while haggling over prices. I didn't even know how to get around town that well let alone how to find good doctors in their private clinics or find, approach or choose hospitals.

For people with lots of money or plenty of medical insurance, it appears to me that they can be pretty safe sticking to Bumrungrad, BNH and Bangkok Hospital and gathering their opinions from doctors found at those three sources, all the while being their own advocate. Not everyone is in that position financially and some have to look for good medical care without the deep pockets. If it had turned out that I had breast cancer or precancer, I would have been cast out into the big city of Bangkok, scared and frantically looking for advice, resources and doctors.

Bumrungrad is now mobbed with mostly medical tourists from the Middle East. Why on earth, when they are pumping people thru their clinics as fast as they can, would they consider keeping their prices down? What CEO is going to be that far-sighted. Like most corporations who win a good reputation with a good product, they then cash in on that reputation and "make hay while the sun shines", grabbing all the business they can as people discover the hard way that the product is no longer the value it once was.

Bumrungrad has kept its doctor visits close to the same prices but has jacked up everything else. I went for routine medical procedures this year as usual, not thinking that I needed to ask every single time what something was going to cost- I never had in the past. I was charged about $800 for a good digital mammogram. I wasn't expecting that. Since then I have made enquiries. I can get a good digital mammogram WITH two doctor visits at John's Hopkins in Singapore for about $200USD or in the town where I grew up in the U.S .for $200USD (without insurance).

I will say that there are still good doctors that I like very much at Bumrungrad.

Dr. Walailuk Chaiyarat is an oncologist with a specialty in breast cancer and is positively a medical superstar who would be an asset to any hospital anywhere in the world and is a godsend to a woman with a "funny-looking" mammogram. If anyone you know has a questionable mammogram, please- send them directly to Dr. Walailuk. If only I could have seen her before the breast surgeons.

Dr Spain in Behavioral Health is kind, caring, gentle and never makes you feel uncomfortable discussing your needs or psycho-pharmaceuticals.

My brilliant and compassionate radiologist, Dr. Sumate Rinsurongkawong, who explained- at last and in beautiful English- my "vacuum needle biopsy" to me, was so experienced and, I discovered via my own web search; he did not tell me, normally works at the National Cancer Institute. Their website is only in Thai language! How would a foreigner like me have found a gem like him? But luckily for me I did, and next time I need a mammogram I am heading over there. They have the same sophisticated equipment there and they only do cancer. If he is any indication of the quality of care at the National Cancer Institute, you have a cancer problem and no insurance or even if you do have insurance and don't want to be treated in place that is processing a million patients a year, I would head right over there.

Another thing I would do, but sadly this takes a lot more time in Bangkok than many of us have time to allocate, I would use the "find a doctor" function on the Bumrungrad website and then see if you can locate them at their private clinics or other hospitals in Bangkok if you need good care at a more reasonable price. The tip of trying to see the doctors in their private clinics in order to save money was one I got from someone here in this forum but at first I didn't understand how I would possibly do that as someone who doesn't live in Bangkok. Using the Bumrungrad Find A Doctor together with a web search using the doctors name seems like one way to do that if you don't have contacts In Bangkok.

I hope there will come to be an easily-searchable list of doctors that patients find in Bangkok so alternatives to Bumrungrad can be found for those who don't live in Bangkok or haven't been there very long.

If someone would put together a site- or a service- that provided reviews and medical resource information, I would certainly pay to use and would support that site or service!

In the meantime, I hope others- especially those of you who live in Thailand!- will share information about good doctors, doctors to avoid and alternative clinics and hospitals here. And I will be back, because I feel for the sake of others I need to report more of the really "bum" things that happened to me at Bumrungrad, but I thought I'd write tonight about the good doctors I found so as not to sound so negative as to not be credible.

If you've made it this far, thanks for listening.

Any comments/advice about how to manage these hospitals?

Everyone says BNH is as good or better (I have heard that t BNH is where the Thai royal family goes) with still highish but more fair prices. I have visited there recently and it is smaller and quieter over there so I don't think they are going to be as over-confident in their treatment of patients. I'm hoping that is the case. But the days of just turning it all over to Bumrungrad and resting assured are certainly over.

A very nice doc at Bumrungrad that I truly trust recommended to me (as a way to save money):

National Institute of Cancer near Victory Monument- I can't find a website for them- anybody know anything about them? Do I have the name wrong?

Chulalongkorn University Hospital- Rama IV Road

and

Ramathibodi University Hospital- Plyothai

A Thai friend (who no longer lives here) confirmed that the university hospitals are excellent, but that you have to be prepared to wait a long time, should go early in the morning (with a good book), and I am concerned about English being spoken.

Would very much appreciate any input/insights/tips!

Hi, All,and thanks for your comments,

As for the individual representing Bumrungrad- thanks, but I prefer to remain anonymous in terms of staff at Bumrungrad knowing who complained about them online. I may need to use Bumrungrad from time to time but I will do so only in a pinch. As a foreigner, Bumrungrad is easy, one-stop-shopping. If you want a good price for good care it can be done in Thailand but you can't just breeze into town anymore and count on Bumrungrad to fill that role for you. It's a shame.

Sheryl,

Thanks for your input. Why must we always learn things the heard way? You are right- we must carefuly choose our doctors, compare prices and manage our medical care every step of the way.

Yes; I did ask for an itemized bill. No mistake. I just didn't realize I had to ask every single time EXACTLY what it was going to cost. I was only "spot checking". They caught me unawares. I never thought to ask in advance how much the mammogram was going to be; they'd usually been just over a hundred bucks.... in the US. $400+ at Bumrungrad! There were some ridiculous charges for vitamins they said I needed. If I'd only known I would have just gotten them elsewhere.

Recently I was quoted $750 at Bumrungrad for a routine type procedure and then $1500 for the exact same procedure three weeks later at Bumrungrad. I don't want to give too many more details because, like I said, I'm still somewhat entangled there and it will take me some time to get completely away from there. (I "talked big" about just picking up my records, but it hasn't been that easy. It's hard to replace all your doctors at once. And it's too bad because I really like a few of my Bumrungrad doctors.)

No, I had not gone for a "package" when I got the mammogram; I was just getting what I thought should be done taken care of like I always had in the past when I had visited Bumrungrad.

Bumrungrad is just swamped. They have so much business, they no longer care about being reasonably-priced and are out to make as much money as possible. I sincerely hope another hospital will pick up their former business model and become "the go-to place where you know you can count on good prices, conveneince and good care".

I was completely appalled at the state of my medical records from Bumrungrad. Forms filled out so incompletely with nothing but quick, illegible scribbles on them. And here I thought I would have years of medical history I could turn over to another doctor. Most of the time they don't even write what the main purpose of the visit was *in the space provided*. They don't record what the doctor's specialty is. So now I can't really use their records to go and show another hosptal or doc that I have been seeking medical care from neurologists for years for my migraines, have tried all these different things to manage them and haven't been just asking for opiates.

It's true what you say- they just send you to whatever doctor is available and not who is best for you. They have some great docs and some stinkers- they are just too big and a zoo now. I have been quoted prices there recently- as I struggle to wean myself away from them- that are on par with U.S. prices.

I'm very upset and feel "stuck" and on my own now trying to find medical care from scratch as a tourist in Thailand who doesn't have a lot of time here and doesn't speak the language. I am part of the "captive audience" Bumrungrad has built up over the years by being so trustworthy *in the past*, which included very fair prices. Now they have changed and are grabbing the big bucks when people are vulnerable and turning to them when in need. I know I sound a bit emotional but it is an emotional situation for me. With the Bumrungrad representative here reading the posts I dont feel like I can explain my full situation while I would really like to, in order to help others avoid similar problems at Bumrungrad.

Bouffant, Bummed

I've been going to Bumrungrad regularly over the last 8 years for routine medical care and have long been a huge fan of Bumrungrad. I live in Indonesia where local medical care is very poor so local medical treatment is not an option for me.

I had not been there in about 2 years and had heard it was getting pricier, so this time when I was there I "spot checked" the prices, occasionally asking how much a doctor visit or test was going to be. Each time I checked the price sounded fine.

Normally I visit Bumrugrad over about three days doing whatever I need to do and my bill is usually about $350-$500 USD, total, including medicine, which I've always purchased there at Bumrungrad for convenience although I've known it would be a bit cheaper at an independent pharmacy.

I am admittedly not a math wizard and obviously didn't do my mental currency conversions well each time I pulled out my credit card to pay. When I got back to Indonesia and my credit card bill came for my Bumrungrad charges, I was dismayed to find the total this time at about $2000! I did strictly routine stuff- mammogram, bone density test, cholesterol test, eye test, etc.

So that's my first complaint. This price is ridiculous for what I had done!

My next complaint: I have been seeing neurologists there for years about my migraines and they have lots of records on me. I've never really pressed hard for pain killers. I felt they addressed this need inadequately but I never felt like fighting about it and understand their caution to a certain degree.

In the U.S., where I'm from originally, the treatment for serious migraine problems always includes these three types of medications: preventative medications (something non-narcotic and non addictive that you take every day to try to keep the migraines from happening in the first place) , abortive medications (something non-narcotic and non addictive that you take at the onset of a migraine to hopefully stop it) , and "rescue" medications to fall back on when the first two don't work which are real painkillers that carry a risk of addiction if abused. This is universally accepted in the US, seems humane as well as appropriate, speaking as a migraine sufferer.

This time at Bumrungrad I figured they had several years to get to know me and, judging from all the consultations and non narcotic drugs I have tried for my migraines, I felt it should be clear that I genuinely suffer from migraines and am not just a vacationer trying to get opiates for fun. So for the first time I complained politely about the ridiculous and inappropriate painkillers they were giving to me, including the eye rolling by the young neurologist at the end of my visit when I requested the painkillers as backup.

I spoke with the customer relations people who handle complaints, and they explained to me that it was hospital policy to give all patients (presumably and hopefully excluding those who have terminal cancer) the same amount of codeine or opiate-containing painkillers. The amount they will give you is less than the amount you can buy without a prescription in Canada. In other words, so ridiculously low that they are not good for much more than perhaps a hangover and certainly not enough to treat a serious migraineur's pain when the other drugs fail. It's a tiny token amount that is same for all patients regardless of situation, history or medical complaint!

This infuriated me- I was not being treated as an individual; I was being treated by a hospital policy without regard to my own medical condition, history, etc. That is not good medical treatment.

Next complaint: The strictly routine, standard mammogram and ultrasound at Bumrungrad cost as much as they cost in the U.S. which has the most expensive medical care in the world.

Next complaint: My gynecologist found something very small but of concern on my mammogram and felt I should speak with a surgeon about a biopsy. The surgeon they sent me to was in the Urology Dept, not the Cancer Dept and he was a general surgeon rather than a breast cancer specialist. This doctor had a supercilious, aloof demeanor and I left my consultation with him quite baffled. Since my plane flight was scheduled to leave Thailand the next day, he said waiting 3 weeks wouldn't hurt anything. Thank goodness I didn't panic and let that guy work on me. I took the three weeks to fly back to my home in Indonesia and, through my own social network, I got the name of an excellent breast cancer expert at Bangkok Nursing Hospital and will be flying back to consult with him, get the biopsy if he concurs that the biopsy is the way to go and rest assured I am in excellent hands.

Meanwhile during these three weeks I wrote to Bumrungrad explaining that I needed a breast cancer biopsy and asking the name of the type of biopsy the doctor had suggested as I had forgotten during the consultation to write it down and to ask for the cost.

Breast cancer isn't something to mess around with. Yet I had to email 5 times over nearly the whole three weeks to finally get the doctor to answer me about type of biopsy he had prescribed and the cost. These were polite, succinct emails. I think it is shocking that they did not provide me with the answers to these two simple questions promptly in order to give me the information I needed to take care of myself or make knowledgeable inquiries with other doctors!

I will never go to Bumrungrad again except to pick up my medical records.

Does anybody know any good plastic surgeons in Bangkok who are terrific and not terribly expensive? I know they are out there- would appreciate any tips!

I just had a horrible string of unprofessional experiences at Bumrungrad -which I will write about in another post- when I went there for a series of routine medical visits.

But one thing that happened was they found something in my mammogram and want to do a breast biopsy. Having been sent to the urology department to have my mammogram read (?), I am planning another trip to Thailand and have since found a breast cancer doctor who comes highly recommended to do my "needle" biopsy (as biopsies go, not a really awful one) which I will do at Bangkok Nursing Hospital.

Of course I have no idea whether I have a malignancy yet; my intuition says I don't, but of course I will be careful and thorough. If I do, it is an ultra-early detection situation as the "speck" they found that they want to check is minuscule.

If I should find I have cancer, I was told lumpectomy + radiation or mastectomy are my choices. I've decided that I would just have both boobs completely out, implant replacements and no radiation. Of course I am going to listen to my doctor's advice, but have read that if it is miniscule, a plastic surgeon can actually do the mastectomy (having consulted with the breast oncologist of course) and can do the implants at the same time. (I prefer a matched pair to one fake and one real, plus if there is cancer in one, I dont want to be checking constantly for cancer in the other.)

If I have this choice, I'd like to find a plastic surgeon in Bangkok who is known by the local glamour girls in Thailand as one who does a great job for a good price. Heck, I'd like to get to know a good plastic surgeon for a few other fix-ups down the road as well. I see these Thai women who've had excellent work done around and I can tell they are not rich- these great, inexpensive plastic surgeons have to be out there. I don't want to go to the famous guy at Bumrungrad and pay more than I need to pay.

I don't have insurance- this will be out of pocket.

I live in Indoneisa so I don't have Thai contacts for this info.

Any recommendations MUCH appreciated!

Hi-

I live and work in Indonesia and come to Bangkok for medical care.

I have been going to Bumrungrad for several years for all my medical needs but I am running into a problem there. I can't get pain medication!

In the US -where I was born- it is standard (and humane!) to give the patient with severe migraine problems three types of medication: one is preventative to try to stop you from having the migraines. One is abortive- that stops a migraine headache that has started and does not involve pain killers. One is a "rescue" medicine - a pain killer- for when the first two fail.

After several years of seeing neurologists at Bumrungrad, when I finally complained about the lack of painkillers being prescribed to me, it turns out they just have a hospital-wide policy about giving anymore than a ridiculously tiny amount of pain medicine, regardless of the patient as an individual. (Hopefully that policy is different for those dyng of cancer, but that isn't my problem at present.)

I am not somone "looking for a good time" trying to get recreational drugs or an addict, nor am I irresponsible nor someone who has not used painkilers responsibly in the past. I have GOT to find a doctor, preferably a migraine specialist but I dont care- i can continue to get the other meds from another doctor (although I haven't found one who was very much help to me yet). I need a doctor who does believe that painkillers are a valid part of a migraine treatment plan and who is willing to prescribe them!

I would very, very much appreciate any ideas or recommendations! I really need help here.

Thank you!

Katherine

Hi-

I live and work in Indonesia and come to Bangkok for medical care. I never have more than a few days to spend in Thailand. I desperately need a root canal and crown on a molar completed within a few days (toward the end of this month)- that is unusual; most want a few weeks. It can be done, though. I had one done in Indonesia, I just really hated the dentist and don't want to go back.

I would very much appreciate any ideas or recommendations!

Thank you!

Katherine

Hello everyone! I am from the US and am coming to Bangkok to visit my daughter in Jan. I would like to have a facelift, neck lift, and both upper and lower eyeslids done. Is this too much to do at one time? Please let me know if you have had this done. Also, I need to find a doctor that will do a great job. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Hi, I just had a face/neck lift and upper eyelids done by Dr Preecha from PAI, surgery done at Piyavate Hospital. After 1 week, lots of the swelling has gone and I start to recognise the person in the mirror. No real pain involved. Discomfort but I found it less than a bad tooth ache!

Some brusing is showing but i went back to work 4 days after. Disturbed sleep on my back is the worst part.

Going to see Dr Preecha this morning for some suture removal.

Good luck,

I had a brow lift about 12 years ago. I really couldn't accurately judge the results for about 9 months. (I tried and I thought I could, but really, the final result just wasn't discernible for 9 months.) Ultimately I was really pleased with it- it looked very natural. I also had a nose job when I was in my 20's, and was very happy with that result as well. In both cases I interviewed a lot of docs (in the US) before I chose one. The skill of a surgeon is definitely not equal to how expensive he or she is.

Now I'm looking for a doc to do a face lift in Thailand, in about a year (I live in Bali). I'm terrified of a bad face lift. I do hope you'll come back and report in after you are all healed!!! Good luck!