enemedin

i have made it clear to my wife from the beginning. we tried roiet, and i did not like it at all for six months, so i came back to pattaya.

what is love ? that was an old ancient word that had some value years and years ago. now we should call it complicity.

complicity and understanding is the only reality of this century.

wives should be in their places and with positive feelings, not trying to take decision for the man.

What is love NOT?

Possessiveness is not love

Jealousy is not love

Lust is not love

Fear is not love

Keeping people all to yourself is not love

Expecting something from someone is not love

http://www.themeaningoflove.net/

lets come back to the source.(The pre-history) the woman was in the cave, cookig and taking care of children, and the man used to go out hunting for food.

now in the modern century the purpose of the hunting might be slightly changed, however its still hunting, so the man has not forgotten about its role.

the women tend to forget their own role very soon, because of all these tv programs, who are trying to make the woman a superstar.

women are lovely when they are real women ... and what is a real woman ? is one who cannot be defined, but can be felt.

love nowadays is just convenience and comfortability, then there is affection, but never love.

Its all normal.

we are bored with ourselves > so the need to do something else that gives exctiment is there.

it's very nice at time to go with someone else, when your partner does not know it.

the ability to hide all the proofs, is also interesting part of the game.

Kwam Lap nakap !

The truth is dont get attached to anyone; sexy or not sexy.

what is sexy and what is not sexy ? just in our minds.

the magazines, the tv, and the movies, have done their work on our brains.

Learn how to trade stock and shares (the volatile ones) and all will be ok with thai lady.

the man who gives gifts and money, soon will be asked for more and more, and when he dont give anymore, he will be hated.

A calm firm attitude should be kept from the beginning of any relationship. Give a bit, then come back where you started, then give that bit you gave before, then dont give , and then give after a while ... you will be more appreciated, then suddenly invent a problem for yourself and let your lady help you with that, so you'll keep her mind busy for a while not to ask for money.

Unfortunately what happens with these people its not voluntary, its a poor country lets face it !

They learn new skills to survive, all the lies, all the fake whinging, and monaning (all the mama have a problem, and sister not have money) can be only effective on those who want to have an effect on them.

YOu need to be friend with some thai men to understand how to behave. Forget you are a farang, your body is, but your mind its up to you to change.

"Some" lady thai will care so much for a man thai, that even if he is drunk and dont work, she'll do anything to help and give money to him.

Have been cheated in the past, have lost money, and have had that great feeling of giving money to families, and feeling appreciated by them, and feeling like a special one here in thailand. but now i have learned and am getting better.

It is true there are bad and good in each country... human are human.

in the end what is bad and what is good ?

its only a question of tolerance ...

Many Thais are certainly nice, many others will only smile to you if you buy the stuff they are selling ...

example try to go to the market and enquiry how much is for a pair of jeans, or shoes and dont buy it cos you dont like them ;

if the seller is in a good mood, ok, if not better not to understand what they say in their language ...

or try to enquiry for a taxi and not to accept their nite price, and hear the comments afterwards... or the bad gestures from some of the taxi men. pai loi, pai pai pai leo leo etc...

i find that many are the nice people, who smile and who are really simple people, really making me feel comfortable, and making me feel to buy their product even, if i dont like it .

I mean i started to like the plah ning fish, only cos the couple in pattaya klang, is so lovely that i just eat it.

Unfortuately as a matter of fact, there is some immaturity, Some have Attention Deficit Disorder. Many have other problems.

Example? try have an accident on the road, and many will smile, rather than trying to help...

Thais seem to be okay, when talking alone with farang, but seem to get excited when they are in group.

The need of the attention and approval from others, seem to be the base of their survival. a bit like the fans in a football match.

Some others like the farangs tourists, but they dont certainly like the farang who lives here from long time; because they say::: "Farang Luu Mak"

Conclusion?

I love thailand and some Thai people, and am very happy to deal with the kind of thais whom i have chosen to leave, and deal with because of the work am doing here.

thank guud, Am surrounded , by the intelligent ones, by those who dont seem to have behaviour problems, and those who have their day filled with busy activity, therefore do not have the time to look at farangs in the street and comment on them continously.

The rest of them, who i meet occasionally by chance anywhere in pattaya or bangkok, who do have some deficit unconscious disorderS, just as they do not exist... move on to the next more reasonable one, when asking for an information, or a service etc.

This is only stating facts, and no hate, no joy has been added to my personal opinion, and well lets say that too... to the opinions of few mates i got, a bit everywhere.

Thailand is great, would you change it ? Keep on smiling

Yes it is good. this forum is the only greatful way to understand something more, from other people ,,,, and the comments added to the thread, are just to make it more colorful and put in the real feelings of the moment. monaning and winging a bit ? let it be mate !!

Whether i get off my chest or from somewherelse, you know what they say, " That art Thou "

whatever happen to one ......... is good to know cos might happen to others to.

am sorry if my talking seem to be against thais, its just i did not expect the famous "Land of smile" to be like this.

and anyway i just report what happened to me. i have also met some great thai people, unfortunately have to say not in pattaya, but i did meet them.

My comment was aimed at gardening9966, and NOT you.

You are quite at liberty to both tell people about what happened, and to rant about it, if need be.

But the giving of false hope to you and information about what you can and should do about the situation you find yourself in, is something thats not a clever thing to do.

Like others have said to you on here, just cut your losses as much as you can, move on, and most of all learn how not to repeat the same situation. Or at least know, and play by the rules of the game (both written and UNwritten) before you start to play.

Penkoprod

each thread has someone who simply dont know how to stick to the current topic under discussion, "only"

each thread has someone who likes to throw his angry vomit on other people, in this thread we find that again of course.

tz ok mate, i foud my answer already from those who really helped.

"That art Thou" ... The good that say and do to people always come back to you. "Universal Law" thanks to all of you hwo helped.

The concept of "key money' has really been abused in Thailand.

Originally this was meant to be a payment made by one tenant to another existing tenant to give up their location.

Hence the term 'key money' as it was used to open the door on a prime location, which would otherwise not be available because shops in prime locations tend to have the habit of making money and rarely close their doors. Therefore some of the major retailers who really wanted to be in a certain spot were prepared for it.

So key money never went to the landlord, who in mature markets would be satisfied with the very high rents and deposits that such locales can command, due to the favourable trading environment. It was certainly not paid at the end of a lease.

What you might have is a situation where someone else wants the space, and perhaps are paying the landlord not to renew your lease. If this is the case then they are unlikely to back down, insisting that you match their 'key money'.

In any event such a payment should be subject to a contract and be taxable.

Indeed should be written in the contract, but the owner said, that it could not write it for obvious reasons. i enquiried why by asking him what are these obvious reasons . his answer was: "Well just pay the money, Khun Tom" - "Everybody do that in Pattaya"

He is not willing to give me a receipt for the key money am paying, and if he does, he wants to write it under the voice of "Services"

I guess i should just pay, and afterwards apply to court. In court i could prove that i was forced to pay, otherwise i would lose a big investment, Once the contract will be renewed for another three years, he will not try to get me out, and i will not to speak to him again, but only my wife will in thai. can this be a good idea ?

Relocating somewherelse cannot be a good solution, as i could carry with me the furniture, but what about all work done... i guess i cannot take away the expensive wall marbles, the decorations, and the platform made all in wood.

Thank you i appreciate your comments on this ...

Don't give in to them. They are robbers.Stick to your rights. Don't be afraid if you DID NOT BREAK any laws there.Contract is contract , anything out of the contract is not admissible in court.You have all the rights to the arbitration courts.I have been "robbed" by 2 female "friends" in a space of 10 years and lost 700K in cash and vehicles to each of them just because I am easy going and trust people easily.Now and if ever i meet somethiong like that I bring them to court.Get a good and well known lawyer in Bangkok and teach them a lesson.

The point you seem to be missing is .......the contract is expired and the OP is (was?) in the process of negotiating a new contract, and has just discovered one of the many pitfalls that non Thais come up against when trying to run a business in Thailand.

The previous purchaser of the lease could well have paid this "key money" to the Thai owner of the place, for all we know (and probably did) without the OP either knowing, nor caring. A case of "buyer beware" if ever there was one

Your rant at the end has no relevance to the topic......but its good to get it off your chest, huh?

Penkoprod

Yes it is good. this forum is the only greatful way to understand something more, from other people ,,,, and the comments added to the thread, are just to make it more colorful and put in the real feelings of the moment. monaning and winging a bit ? let it be mate !!

Whether i get off my chest or from somewherelse, you know what they say, " That art Thou "

whatever happen to one ......... is good to know cos might happen to others to.

am sorry if my talking seem to be against thais, its just i did not expect the famous "Land of smile" to be like this.

and anyway i just report what happened to me. i have also met some great thai people, unfortunately have to say not in pattaya, but i did meet them.

I fail to understand your complaint..

Your lease is out, correct ?? Now unless it is contractually agreed previously, your new lease can be anything.. It can be a billion baht or a satang.. Its down to the land owner or sub leasee.. Does this surprise you ??

In fact I am stunned hes offering you 500k to leave, most here would just raise the price and have you walk, I guess it must have >500k worth of fixtures and fittings.

This is normal standard biz practice.

Hello

my lease was for three years, and now almost expired.

Only surprises me that the landlord did not tell me before that there was key money to be paid at the end of the three years. more over i took over the lease with only two years left. the previous lessee paid only very low amount of key money to the owner, because she was a thai herself.

Before taking over i went to speak with the business owner first, and asked the price, then asked to speak with the landlord to make sure that he was the owner of the land, then asked for a contract, then asked if there was any key money to be paid to get in.

My lawyer (so-called) handled the documents, and i felt much better to feel protected by her, as she is quite well known in pattaya, handling practices for many rich business men living here.

The contract was in Thai, and my wife can speak good english therefore she translated for me, just to make sure that all was written according to the terms that we agreed verbally before hand.

Yes the fixtures and fitting are worth over 500k . am selling the business with all equipment inc.

your being screwed by this bas***d, why didnt you go to a reutable law firm like mcenzie smyth in pattaya ? too late now for that. he obviously wants to sell it on and get you out, i would tell him that you can sell it on for 2.5 mill and try get him to give you 1 mill to get out rather than giving him the key money and trying to sell it on yourself, the chances of anyone buying it are very slim in the current climate so you can get out now or have another headache for 2-3 yrs then pay more key money by which time this bas***d will probably increase it as he knows you paid up the last time.

Yes indeed; I know it can be sold for at least 2,2 mil baht . I have had some viewing about 9 in two months and all english and russian investors. The owner is aware that it can be sold for that price. Law firm in pattaya you mean can help ? too late now ? not sure when it comes to law in pattaya, thais seem to agree between each others very easily when it comes to deal with farangs.

sorry about that ! not all thais of course are like that, but experience and talkings between mates gets you a bigger pic of whats going on here. This seem to be the only country where the people seem to be joined against the enemy "The Farang" why we became so unwelcomed in this country is still a mistery. have been travelling all over the world, Brazil, cuba, spain, venezuela, Italy, philippines ... and after few months you live there, you seem to mix very well with people, and they forget you are a foreigneier ... people call the german man .. by name, or simply the German man, or call the english man... the english man ... but in this country no matter how kid you can be, am always called the Farang. i choose to live here, so now not much complaining about it, thats life i guess.

The paying of key money is a tax avoidance sheme by the landlord. If you operate a business and have to account for all expenses when paying your own taxes you should either demand a receipt for the key money or ask for an apportioned raise in rent that reflects the key money demanded.

He will not give receipt for that he said ....

Hi mate

I dont understand how you can be so surprised over the key money " extra pay" - that is how it is - yes off course its a rib off policy in this country . rib foreigners for so much money as possible and dont care of anything, or use of threaths are common.Get money from others without work is standard.After waht I heard -anyone can call themself a laywer without any education but I dont now if its true

I dont really understand why so many are still investing here.. we are not wellcomed - only our money.There are other place we are more wellcomed in this region.

Sorry to ask you, but where is that we are more welcomed in Thailand ? I have heard oh Udon Thani, is that true ?

many farangs there....

At the time i did invest, cos it looked so cheap to buy only 600,000 baht. I managed to make some money during the high season, and then i spend again all those money during the low season, keeping on paying staff , rent, electric, and company borisat 8,000 per month, not mentioning social security and all other expenses that all of us have.

I agree that it probably a tax issue with the owner. It is not illegal as far as I am aware as a 'lease premium' or 'goodwill' 'key money' payment is relatively common and has no or little bearing on economic reality. It happens with school entry fees in much the same way here although termed as something else.

Can you be more specific about what the 'business' is? since if you are just renting premises from this party it may be best to just relocate and put a lot more attention in to securing a better deal at a new location.

Whilst this up front payment may be expected at a new site, many landlords are sitting on empty units as Pattaya is awash with these shophouses (mostly derelict) and you can quite easily remove all your fixtures and fittings and transplant them elsewhere.

Threats in Pattaya are to be expected, and take heed as they can be obstructive in many ways (cutting electricity, smashing windows etc) and you will have little or no recourse. Suffice to say that you will not likley ever get your deposit back now or in another 3 years, so factor that in to any decsion you make at this stage.

HI and thank you for reply.

It is a Restaurant on which i have spent 2 mil baht to renew two years ago.

I guess will be best to pay the key money and try to sell the business to someone else, recoverig what is possible.

I told him this morning that i might pay the key money, in the next two or three days, but i will also try to sell the business to someone private and then the new "Buyer, Business owner" will sign a new contract with the thai owner.

This Thai owner, wants to know how much i want to sell it for, and when i told him 2 mil baht, he said to me he will give me 500,000 to get out of of the restaurant.

Very strange, he must have understood that he can sell it for more.

Hello everyone

I found myself in a bad position yesterday morning, when i tried to renew the contract for another 3 years.

The owner Thai asked me for key money.

My wife was sure that there was no mention of any key money in the previous contract that we signed two years ago, however we read it again and the owner, clearly said to us, that Key MOney is illegal in pattaya, therefore it cannot be written. We must just pay up or leave.

Now we took this business already with two years left on the contract, and we paid the money to the previous owner to purchase the business with all furnitures and equipment, and righlty signed the contract with the Thai owner, two years ago.

The lawyer who handled all the papers for us, did not tell us that there was any key money to be paid, on expiring of the contract at the end of January 2009, nor the Thai owner.

When we asked him why he did not tell us, he simply told us that the lawyer should have told us; We asked to the lawyer, and she said that the thai owner, did not mention it to her too....

We have invested so much into this business and just to let it go like that, it will be really a severe loss.

We are lost and we please need urgent advise, on how to deal with this matter.

Key money is illegal in pattaya or not ? Why is not written on a contract ?

Some of my mates did not pay any key money for their business, some others paid only one time, and when they renew the contract they only keep on paying the rent.

Is that possible that some Thais can be so ruthless with farangs, trying to squeeze their wallet thinking that we are living walking Atm's?

Key money is not the same for everybody, indeed when some thais went to ask how much would it be to rent the business and how much key money to be paid, surprisingly our same Thai owner told them that the price was just half of the one we should pay now.

We then went back to the Thai owner, and reported this to him, and he nervously said to us, that we should be careful in pattaya, cos to be against thai people is dangerous, etc ... not to mention all other details that cannot be written here.

The full story about the lawyer, is that she used to be an accountant, and she decided to be a lawyer, cos she makes more money.

In pattaya anyone can be a lawyer right ? you just need few contacts is it ?

Worhty taking to court, the Thai owner, and my previous so-called lawyer for not telling me the full story ?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Thank you

sorry fellas, but isnt this pattaya ? am i on the wrong place or what ?

I think I would tell them to bugger off and mind their own business if it were me.

Not all residents are renting, and not all renters rent furnished, so how do they tell the difference?

Thanks all of you ...

i think the real policy should be : "Directed to the owner of the flat" from the main office.. When you (owner) decide to rent youf flat, we decline any responsability for whatever action your tenant might do" it will be your responsability to ensure your items..

I paid deposit to my landlord anyway, so i should be free to do what i like .. and i paid for six months already, cos owner is residing abroad ..

I like Nirun cos its quiet ... at nite ...

all other places might be more prestigious, but far away from shops, and noisy bars around...

Why Pattaya have so much noises after midnite ?

its not the party, its just the trmbling bass and the drums who makes it all so bad ..

Thank you

Go Carrefour, Tesco whatever yu like...Buy a Stereo, A Pc, A Tv, some Furnitures....

YOu go home, and if you find the "just bought" TV or a furniture to be defective, of course you need to back to Carrefour.. to change it..

NO, NO, NO...

YOu cannot actually.

The security will stop you and will not allow you to go out of the building .

They may even call police, if you insist to take your own staff out with you.

So they send you to management, and some young hot blodeed man, will tell you off rudely accusing you that now it is your problem.

In the first place, if this policy is applied is a One way policy !

We can get things in , but cannot get our own staff out when you like it ?

So why not register first at security the goods with the registration number, when they are brought in the condo ?

And even if the goods are registered, then everybody will know what you have in your condo, increasing the curiosity of someone to visit your condo right ?

I do understand that due to recent burglaries, in this junk condo many have complained...

In that case the security dont seem to be there,when the burglary occurs and goods are taken out, but if you take your own furnitures out, then they'll notice you ..

a bit strange ..

We should all complain to City Hall..

This a proposal to set up a green number for complaining to city hall, as they did in jomtien condominium..

Has this happened to you too ?

Thanks

People inside seem to keep themselves to themselves ..

some time have music a bit loud, but not bad ... in the nite..

the problem is not the people but the way it is organized ..

some time at security they give you the card to access by car, and some other times they forget or they are not there to handle you the pass card.. when obviously at your return on your way out, you dont have the card (not given to you in the first place) you will be charged for 100 baht ... quite scummy is it ? finding ways to make money smart enough ....

quite happy that farangs turn their back to Thailand... considering all taxi scammers ... organized gangs, wallets chaser,,, ladyboys who know what they are doing ...etc,,

my advice ? can still buy or rent, but all farangs and thai should sign a petiotion to go to city Hall and complain about the way how it is managed ... and the silly rules .... they apply

newcomers farangs, tend to be skeptical about thai people and trust their countrymates thinking to get good deals, but the reality shows it otherwise. personal experience and heard some stories

Total scuz pit. Middle of nowhere. Need directions written in Thai for a motorbike taxi. Home to a large number of potless drunken falangs who are one medical bill away from being deported. Dangerous after dark and not that safe in daylight.

Nearly all units tiny studios of Thai build quality. When you say 'deal' then whilst absolutely no one should be buying anything in Thailand at this moment in time if it is more than 700,000 baht for a studio in foreign name then it is no deal at all.

Avoid unless you are seriously on your uppers. If you buy expect not to be able to re-sell except for pennies. If you must give the estate agents a miss and just wander round the building looking for the multiple 'condo for sale by owners' notices that cover the walls.

(cue our resident estate agents to tell us the property market in Pattaya is booming we had all better get in quick and Nirum 'offers value for the discerning clients')

The Area seem to be getting much better actually. The outside, makes you think that is a rough area but once you go inside the condo it's all very silent at nite.

The drunk farangs are everywhere, even in the places that you dont expect them to be, because people are people, wether they can afford to live in good area, or rough one.

In 9 years of living in pattaya, I have been changing many condos, just to find out that even in the best of the areas, your neighbour could be so inconsiderate with his/her loud music, to give a bad name to the location.

I have been here three years and meet few people, that lost all, and waited till the end to buy the ticket back home... wonder what happens in the mind of these people

My lady works at Mc Donald .... .........day time

good and bad should be there... it's past its history anyway. is there any aL_Kapon,

always heard about him never actually seen his face

i like dark skinned lady, cos am white, and cos i like capuccino

my friend a week ago was happy...

he managed to get a ticket back to his country

so for a week he tried to get the most of this great city

what is the real earning of the buyer of a franchise?

is it true what i heard, that the owner will have to give family mart, 60% of the earning and he only gets to keep 40%.

however 80% of the electric bill is paid by family mart and 20% by the owner.

i wonder how much could it make a family mart based in one of those isolated soi, and if the profits are enough to provide a comfortable living in Thailand.