volk666

Thanks, just checked it myself yesterday, there's no exit coming from Rama 9, there's only entrance from Wittayu on the way back (from Rama 4).

Coming from the north there's a u-turn just before Sukhimwit exit but once you get there you might just as well turn right to Sukhumit and then right to Ratchdamri again.

Saturday traffic was still brutal - spent half an hour just trying to exit Big C car park. I've heard that Big C staff sometimes have to use paid parking elsewhere as Big C itself is not big enough.

This is ridiculous.

I'm not familiar with the traffic patterns there, what's the best way to get to Big-C on Ratchadamri coming from express way over Rama 9? There's no Phetburi exit, afaik, and the next exit at Sukhumwit is a very long u-turn line and I'm not even sure it allows me to get to the rightmost lane on Sukhumwit to make a right turn at Ratchdamri.

Assuming Sukhumwit exit, how much time would it take me on weekday morning?

Are there any other exits or approaches?

Phetburi-Chitlom-back of Big C sounds like the better way but expressway exits on Phetburi are all very far.

Alternatively, by what time parking lot at BTS Morchit gets full? 7 AM? 7.30? Is there any chance by 8? What about BTS Onnuj parking? Is it still available?

I hate this going downtown in the morning business.

Bill Gates chips in on tablets in classrooms:

"Just giving people devices, that has a really terrible track record. You really have to change the curriculum and the teacher and those things..."

http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/27/3120302/bill-gates-tablets-education

True Visions cannot be view as anything but an enterprise in bed with various ministries in a criminal conspiracy to defraud everyone. Their time as a monopoly in urban Thailand is coming to an end. The pure hubris by True Visions executives is on full display during this and other debacles, ASN comes to mind.

Watch as much of True Visions parent company, CP, continues to move money offshore to better performing economies.

True, True, True,

and yet this thread is about consumer groups being pissed at Grammy.

True, True, True...

If the numbers in the OP are correct True subscribers make up less than 20% of satellite TV viewers. If Grammy sold 1 mil of its boxes there are still 10 million satellite dishes that can't watch free to air channels during football games.

I believe it's the politically driven programs like ASTV and red tv stations that are responsible for this boom in satellite TV in Thailand but one way or another there are millions of them out there and god knows who they have to pay to watch free to air channels now.

Where did you get the thing about Pridi avoiding returning from?

Read an interview a while ago, I think someone was recollecting meeting Pridi in France in the 70-s. You obviously know this stuff better than me and I won't argue if you believe I'm wrong.

Jakrapob is a demogogue, he can quote anyone he wants without affecting this basic fact about himself.

But I'm curious - were Pridi and Phibul really that different in their early days? Did they have different ideals and different ideas when they were planning 1932 revolution?

Incidentally, I don't think there's a gulf of difference between authoritarian nationalism and fascism, in my book they are synonyms, with fascism being a more effective label but also being constrained by historical examples of Italy and Germany and so easily deniable anywhere else.

Also the fact that reds and PTP are full of Phibul like characters but I can't spot a single Pridi.

I would say that there is one Red figure that has a slight resemblance to Pridi, but he's in exile in the UK and will probably never return.

Personally I think that guy is an intellectually bankrupt seeker of attention. I also don't like his patronizing, know it all attitude, and obvious disdain for people who actually love the institution we are not supposed to discuss.

Pridi didn't return to Thailand because he thought it could turn controversial, dude in London feeds on controversy and is looking for a fight, albeit from the safety of the UK. He's also not in exile, he fled without even hearing his charges, there wasn't even an arrest warrant, he awarded himself "exile" status purely for self-aggrandizement.

Not to mention the caliber - he was a founder of a party with barely two dozen members.

Umm, omitting that the 1932 revolution ushered in not the era of democracy and freedom but fascism and dictatorship? Omitting that 1932 revolution was not much different than any other subsequent coup?

People who got quoted here are very aware of Pibul's legacy, they just choose not to talk about it while shamelessly preaching freedom of thought and freedom of access to knowledge, especially in Prawit's case. He's the one endlessly harping how people have been brainwashed by the establishment. In this article he is doing exactly the same thing he's accusing "ultra-royalists" of - presenting one sided view of the history.

And with your wiki knowledge you make it sound like the the '32 revolution immediately ushered in Pibuls dictatorship. He didn't become PM until 1935. Pridi was responsible for the first attempt at a constitution for a constitutional monarchy, certainly something to celebrate. The fact that Pibul acted like he did does not take away from the original triumph.

I'm not arguing that 1932 revolution was a total failure in each and every respect, I'm against mindless idealizing of it.

There's also something very ominous about how the democratic ideas of 1932 led to decades of fascism and military dictatorship, listening to red propaganda I'm afraid history is going to repeat itself once again.

Also the fact that reds and PTP are full of Phibul like characters but I can't spot a single Pridi.

Here's a challenge - name one politician in that camp who inspired any kind of hope for the better. Everybody with any shred of integrity had left that movement long time ago, beginning with TRT founding members.

Umm, omitting that the 1932 revolution ushered in not the era of democracy and freedom but fascism and dictatorship? Omitting that 1932 revolution was not much different than any other subsequent coup?

People who got quoted here are very aware of Pibul's legacy, they just choose not to talk about it while shamelessly preaching freedom of thought and freedom of access to knowledge, especially in Prawit's case. He's the one endlessly harping how people have been brainwashed by the establishment. In this article he is doing exactly the same thing he's accusing "ultra-royalists" of - presenting one sided view of the history.

The judicial coup has a short, very short, direct connection to the junta. Junta installed judges in a junta-written constitution. Junta installed court dissolves political parties the junta doesn't like (twice), but leaves the others in peace.

Even a blind man knows when the sun is shining.

Dissolution of TRT was recommended by the very first investigative committee in May 2006, months before the coup, according to 1997 constitution, and when the previous EC was still firmly in charge, I think it was even before the elections results were annulled.

Dissolution of PPP was inevitable once Yongyudh, their party senior exec, was convicted of electoral fraud, the court really didn't have a choice and stated so in the judgment. Ditto for Banharn.

Another thing I don't understand is why reds so hung up on Pridi instead of celebrating Phibul who came to the power as the result of the 1932 coup, ruled the country as military dictator for nearly twenty years and established not democracy but fascism. How come they brush out this inconvenient result of that coup from the history?

As usual - reds say one thing but in reality it turns out exactly the opposite. Surely they can't be THAT dumb, can they?

It is a fascinating story but I don't think you want to get into it in print and for sure don't talk about it to Thai people that you don't know very well.

I thought they leave no stones unturned in their quest for democracy. At least that's what they say.

I just checked Pibul's page on wiki, this is what they say, emphasis mine:

1932 Revolution

Phibunsongkhram was one of the leaders of the military branch of the People's Party (Khana Ratsadon) that staged a coup d'état and overthrew the absolute monarchy in 1932. Then-Lieutenant Colonel Phibunsongkhram rose to prominence as a man-on-horseback.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaek_Phibunsongkhram

Perhaps there are other places there where this revolution is called a coup. In itself it doesn't make it better or worse, the point is reds and their academics omit this side of the "revolution" in their speeches, and that includes sympathetic journalists like Prawit who wrote the original article and who dedicated his life to promoting freedom of knowledge.

The hypocrisy here is mind boggling.

"and once that was accomplished the military accepted election results that didn't go their way, twice now."

well, sort of. They have accepted the results the second time, ... so far.

They accepted results the first time, too. You can only accuse them of brokering the new coalition deal but they didn't have guns to anybody's heads and their alleged involvement hardly qualifies as "overturning election results".

They even let Thaksin back in the country, despots..

How do these red intellectuals explain why the coup of 1932 was good but all other coups, especially 2006, are bad? Unlike 1932 the latest coup didn't claim any lives (apart from one suicide a few months later on). Unlike 1932 when people had no idea what was going on, the latest coup had a massive public support.

It seems the red leaders completely gloss over the fact that they are celebrating the first ever coup day in this country. What about their "awakened" followers - do they know they are celebrating a coup? Or are they celebrating their ignorance?

They've seemed to got carried away with "might makes right" and "if one billion Chinese do it, it can't be wrong" logic.

Couple that with "eradicate the opposition" calls and an occasional nazi t-shirt and I don't know how anyone supporting that bunch can talk about democracy.

Having read a (little) bit on Pridi Banomyong, the most respected leader of the 1932 revolt, I'm puzzled why the red-shirts like him, or should I say the UDD

This part from wiki "In 1933, Pridi went into voluntary exile when his radical economic plans, which called for the nationalisation of all land and labour, were violently rejected by many^{[who?][citation needed]} as extreme and allegedly communist." suggests a red color, but the description of the 'Protectors' with "The Promoters realized, ironically, as the King's advisors had done, that the Siamese people were not yet ready for democracy, and most were illiterate peasants with little concern for affairs in Bangkok." suggests a link to the rightwingers within the PAD.

http://en.wikipedia....Pridi_Banomyong

http://en.wikipedia....olution_of_1932

edit: correct spelling, typos. Need to learn the language one of these days.

Another thing I don't understand is why reds so hung up on Pridi instead of celebrating Phibul who came to the power as the result of the 1932 coup, ruled the country as military dictator for nearly twenty years and established not democracy but fascism. How come they brush out this inconvenient result of that coup from the history?

As usual - reds say one thing but in reality it turns out exactly the opposite. Surely they can't be THAT dumb, can they?

...If the coup had not happened there would have been elections in Ocober or within a month or so while the new Election Commission got up to speed. Then the dems would have a chance to get themselves voted in legitimately with a mandate by getting ....

The coup wasn't about giving Democrats a chance to run in elections. It was about removing Thaksin.

Don't forget that by September 2006 Thaksin had already committed most of his crimes and could stay in power only because he was out of reach of the justice system. April 2006 fraud was all out there for everyone to see, for example, and it was clear that Thaksin had no respect for democratic rules whatsoever and shouldn't be allowed to rule.

Had he formally announced that he would not take the PM post, as he promised earlier that year on national TV, the coup makers would have let the situation to develop on its own, I think.

The ridiculous suicide bomb plot and Thaksin's hesitation to step aside convinced them that the man couldn't be trusted and his fate was sealed.

I'll repeat it again - it wasn't about putting Democrats in power, it was about removing Thaksin, and once that was accomplished the military accepted election results that didn't go their way, twice now.

How do these red intellectuals explain why the coup of 1932 was good but all other coups, especially 2006, are bad? Unlike 1932 the latest coup didn't claim any lives (apart from one suicide a few months later on). Unlike 1932 when people had no idea what was going on, the latest coup had a massive public support.

It seems the red leaders completely gloss over the fact that they are celebrating the first ever coup day in this country. What about their "awakened" followers - do they know they are celebrating a coup? Or are they celebrating their ignorance?

They've seemed to got carried away with "might makes right" and "if one billion Chinese do it, it can't be wrong" logic.

Couple that with "eradicate the opposition" calls and an occasional nazi t-shirt and I don't know how anyone supporting that bunch can talk about democracy.

Sorry, I'm confused with all these entrenched positions and with some posters I'm not sure where they are coming from.

The coup was bloodless. Can't say the same about "democratic" calls for an early elections that ended in so much tragedy. They eventually got their preferred government, half a year later than was proposed and half a year earlier than scheduled. Does THIS end justify the means?

How's that "end never justifies the means" applies only to the actions of the opponents? I also never heard anything like that form the red leaders, they never said "this is getting ugly, this will never justify our victory, let's wrap it up and go home".

"10 million affected" is everyone with a satellite dish. You don't have to be True subscriber to buy a dish, a box, and watch whatever you want. Part of the appeal of satellite TV is that national channels are broadcast in digital format and so the quality is far better than what you get with an aerial, except Channel 3, if you have the right antenna the quality of the signal is better than what I get from True.

If Thaksin still wields a lot of influence over Thai politics from exile how are we supposed to believe that he would have gone and banished from politics without a coup?

How can they say "coups don't solve problems"? The coup removed Thaksin from power, now the man is convicted, illegal part of his assets have been confiscated and he is on the run. Of course it's not a complete and satisfactory solution but still better than trying to deal with him via "democratic" means.

The army knows they screwed up with temple shootings but there's no way they would throw one of their own under the bus, they have no choice but to close the ranks, especially in this political climate.

It's all nice to ask them to come out and admit their mistake like men but then it should be men judging them, too, not circus clowns.

Amsterdam will drag the entire country through the mud, for example, no one wants to feed that leech.

Who really wants to punish that unfortunate guy who who pulled the trigger anyway? The whole campaign is just an excuse to nail Abhisit and Suthep and reds are not even pretending otherwise. I don't know who is this "righteous indignation" meant for.

Thaksin got his satellite license in what, 1991? And he made 86 billion by 1994? That's over 3 billion dollars at those days exchange rates.

I also would like to know how dotcom crash in the US affected Thaksin's assets in Thailand. If it affected his assets overseas - it was illegal to transfer funds out of the country, and for a good reason - money should be invested here for the development of Thailand.

And then Thaksin becomes the Prime Minister and say he has only country's interests in his heart.

Just what kind of crap people read in those banned online sources?

I personally think Suthep fudged this one up and didn't think it through all the way. Whether it's true or not, he didn't think out all the possible scenarios that can occur by making such accusations. Since both sides are calling each other liars, we're at a moot point and even when Abhisit was asked he said "we should just stop it here".

Suthep only told his party members that he was approached by people, to which they cannot confirm first hand. I sometimes even think that he's lying to his own party. The only reason Suthep would not reveal the names, if it's true, it would be if the people who approached him asked to keep it a secret which he ignored. If he was going this route, if true, he should've went all the way and revealed names otherwise he should've kept his mouth shut.

- 1 for Suthep and the rest of the Dems for not putting a hand over his mouth.

Suthep doesn't have to give the names to anybody and doesn't have to prove anything. People who approached him know the score and those who are not in the loop don't really matter.

It's up to Thaksin to assure his fanclub that he didn't send people to talk to Suthep. Some of them will believe Thaksin, some will have their doubts - Suthep's mission accomplished!

You may be right but if you noticed the recent strategy that the Democrats are using, they're trying to create disunity within the government and Red ranks. Whether it's the result of facts or fabrication, the government and Red leaders are using it to unite the Red-shirts even stronger. It's like saying "see what the Democrats are trying to do? First the timely court cases against Thaksin, Yongyudth, Karun, then the PM's Four Seasons issue, and now Suthep making up stories to try to create disunity. We must show them that we're smarter than that and unite even stronger!", to which the Red shirts might say "heeeeeeey, that's riiiight!, we won't be fooled!".

If you listen to the Democrats in their rallies and Bluesky channels, they're trying to sympathize with the Red Shirts and convince them that they're being used by Thaksin, which is good. On the other hand, this onslaught of sympathy and all these accusations can backfire on them. The game is being read, and I assure you, the Red shirt supporters are more than likely watching Red channels and believing what their propagandists are telling them.

I don't know about reds warming up to Democrats, that's not going to happen any time soon, but even the reds themselves are starting to doubt Thaksin's commitment to the cause and it wasn't Democrats who started telling reds that it's time to forget about 2010 and part ways.

We should also see calls for unity coming from the rank and files, not from PTP or Thaksin's lackey, for the lack of a better word.

I bet some of the reds must see that amnesty bill is against everything they sacrificed their lives for and the "unity" PTP is pushing forward is the unity with ammarts, not with the reds.

Maybe the fact that PTP switched to a damage control mood is a sign that they really sense signs of discomfort coming from the trenches.

I personally think Suthep fudged this one up and didn't think it through all the way. Whether it's true or not, he didn't think out all the possible scenarios that can occur by making such accusations. Since both sides are calling each other liars, we're at a moot point and even when Abhisit was asked he said "we should just stop it here".

Suthep only told his party members that he was approached by people, to which they cannot confirm first hand. I sometimes even think that he's lying to his own party. The only reason Suthep would not reveal the names, if it's true, it would be if the people who approached him asked to keep it a secret which he ignored. If he was going this route, if true, he should've went all the way and revealed names otherwise he should've kept his mouth shut.

- 1 for Suthep and the rest of the Dems for not putting a hand over his mouth.

Suthep doesn't have to give the names to anybody and doesn't have to prove anything. People who approached him know the score and those who are not in the loop don't really matter.

It's up to Thaksin to assure his fanclub that he didn't send people to talk to Suthep. Some of them will believe Thaksin, some will have their doubts - Suthep's mission accomplished!

"He even gave the time of the phone call."

oh well then it must be true, sorry to have asked ye about it.

"How Democrats can stop amnesty bill legally? - Misleading question. All they have to do is convince Thaksin to back off and they succeeded for now. The bill doesn't have a life on its own, you know..."

not misleading, pretty straightforward actually.

i'm not sure if that last part has any relevance to anything i've said or not but it is something i am aware of.

birds can fly, you know...

God knows what standard of proof you need in this case, just as everybody knows you won't admit that Suthep was not lying no matter what. For me - Suthep gave a lot of details here and his version make enough sense. I don't see the reason to doubt it.

PTP might deny any knowledge of it but people like Chavalit can approach Suthep without asking Yingluck.

"How Democrats can stop amnesty bill legally?" is like asking "When did you stop beating your wife?"

Democrats need to stop Thaksin from trying to return home without serving his sentence and amnesty bill on its own is just one indicator in a greater struggle - trying to influence Thaksin's mind, and in this mind game talking legalities is inapplicable.

What you probably mean is how Dems can send a message to Thaksin without getting in legal trouble themselves. Not their utmost concern, will sort it out later.

<deleted> I give up - FTa is what it is FTA, look if you have a true box right now - pull out the card and you will still see Thai channel 3-5-9 and a load of others

I get a blank screen with "Please insert your card" message.

Perhaps you don't know this subject as well as you claim.