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Poste by 7by7

Indeed, parental responsibility and sole custody are two different things. Hence my question.

If you have legal custody then getting him a Thai passport without his mother signing anything is simple; provided you have the documents to show this.

What documents did you use when you originally went to the passport office?

Did they say why those documents were unacceptable?

My wife had legal sole custody of her daughter when we married (I say 'had' as the daughter is now 23) and the sole custody document from the court was all she needed to get her daughter a passport without any input from the father.

(She had to go to court as the father wouldn't attend the ampur to sign the necessary papers there; which would have been quicker and cheaper. Not because he cared about the girl, but out of sheer bloody mindedness. He didn't even turn up for the court hearing, despite it being adjourned three times to give him time him to do so.)

As i have said in the original and subsequent posts this is not about getting a thai passport, The law has changed (recently) since your wife needs. If I can get a thai passport, then there is no issue, If I cannot I need to find an alternative legal solution. Which is the point and topic of the post.

Having studied to the best of my abilities the legal requirement for travel as far as I can ascertain from a legal requirement POV He does not need a thai passport (as long as the proof I provide shows he is Legal in Thailand) Just a UK Passport for his journey to the UK.

I cannot say this is 100% correct so I am therefore asking for thoughts on this, maybe someone has had a similar experience, some legal or immigration knowledge, or perhaps some other ideas

What a palaver this all seems, I don’t know if this will help any of you, But for a completely unrelated reason I got ( well I got my thai gf to get) AIS to send my phone bill to me with the address written in English.

Would this not suffice as proof of address?

Oh dear, I never considered for one second we'd have a problem, but this thread is making me wonder.

At the end of June I'll be flying to Thailand to collect my wife and 2-month old daughter who are moving to the UK. The wife already has her visa but we're currently still waiting for our daughter's UK passport. She has not applied for a Thai passport. I'm already wondering if I'll need to apply for an Emergency Travel Document should the passport not turn up (it's been 8 weeks since the application was submitted at the Embassy just prior to it changing to VFS, we have 5 weeks remaining for it to arrive), but now I have the added confusion as to whether we'll need to try to get a Thai passport in the week I'm there.

Could Your wife could get the thai passport now? My difficulties re thai passport are mainly due to his mother lack of availability

Could you do a test run by flying to KL and back on his UK passport? If it goes ok, your son has then entered on his UK passport and so should leave in June on it.

That my friend is an outstanding idea, thank you for the input!

Whilst as far as i can see the documents should be sufficient to legally get a thai passport, when we went to get one, basically they would not allow it, to paraphrase, As i wasn’t the mother, they explained it would be the same even if i was a thai father. Unless i can prove she is either dead, or have documents showing sole custody, which i don’t.

Which does rather conflict with your OP where you said

We have all the documents for both countries showing me as having parental responsibility

Presumably you mean you can show that you take care of the child, but not that you have legal custody?

In which case, as far as I understand, child abduction prevention rules mean that even if he had a Thai passport you would not be able to take him out of Thailand without one of: legal custody, his mother's death certificate or written permission from his mother.

I think you should postpone your travel plans until at least you have legal custody and preferably until he has a Thai passport as well.

Otherwise you could find yourself in a whole heap of trouble.

Parental responsibility and sole custody are 2 different things, i have legal custody As i have said as far as i can see i should be able to get the thai passport, but so far to no avail, and therefore i am exploring posible legal alternatives, whilst actually still trying to get the thai passport, I came on here to ask if anyone had any insight into the legal requirement of what passport are actually needed in light of the information provided

Since he has Thai nationality he will need a Thai passport to leave the country.

He would not even be able to check in for his flight much less clear immigration without it.

You should be able to get is Thai passport if you have been given full parental authority by an Amphoe or the courts.

Info on the requirement for getting the passport is here. http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

Actually that is not strictly true, as Thais can leave Thailand to some connecting countries on there Thai ID only, e.g Lao

He would be able to check in his flight if the flight is booked under his UK passport.

Clearing imigration is the question mark i feel

Thanks for all the input thus far, and it seems a mixed bag of posibily or not, So to add so detail.

Yes the Child has never left Thailand, Whilst as far as i can see the documents should be sufficient to legally get a thai passport, when we went to get one, basically they would not allow it, to paraphrase, As i wasn’t the mother, they explained it would be the same even if i was a thai father. Unless i can prove she is either dead, or have documents showing sole custody, which i don’t. and cannot afford the cost of pursuing this or the time it would take, (3-6 months)Apparently this is a recent change in the law (procedure).

From what i understand, you need valid documentation for the country you are traveling to, this is the only legal requirement i can find. So in this case a uk passport is a valid travel document. I also need proof he is in Thailand legally, did not enter Thailand illegally. these to me seem to be the only requirements, As i can proof he was born here in Thailand, is a Thai resident, ID Card birth cert, School ID card. name on taben barn, I cannot see any legal reason wht he needs a thai passport, to leave Thailand and travel to the UK.

I appreciate the need if / when he comes back to Thailand, but that’s can be resolved in the future

Does this extra detail help?

Appreciate your comments feedback and insights

Hi i hope you guys can help out here...My son is a Duel UK and Thai national holding a UK passport. We plan to travel back to the UK and remain there. The mother is long gone so we cannot get a Thai passport. But does my son actually need one? We have a Thai ID card, birth certificate etc, showing that he is a Thai national also the same plus a UK passport. Can we not show his Thai ID as proof of legally ok to stay in Thailand plus the UK passport as the valid travel document to the UK? (When we go through immigration etc)

We have all the documents for both countries showing me as having parental responsibility

Hi i hope you guys can help out here...My son is a Duel UK and Thai national holding a UK passport. We plan to travel back to the UK and remain there. The mother is long gone so we cannot get a Thai passport. But does my son actually need one? We have a Thai ID card, birth certificate etc, showing that he is a Thai national also the same plus a UK passport. Can we not show his Thai ID as proof of legally ok to stay in Thailand plus the UK passport as the valid travel document to the UK? (When we go through immigration etc)

We have all the documents for both countries showing me as having parental responsibility

When returning to Thailand without a Thai passport the child will be stamped in on the UK-passport and also need a visa and extensions of stay.

Extensions of stay are however very easy, just show the Thai ID-card.

Do go to court to become the legal father and apply for sole custody. Could save a lot of headache in the future.

Yes i intent to go to court for sole custody...But why would he need a visa extension?... Could he not just enter the country as a uk tourist, and automatically become a thai national once immigration is cleared. He holds title to both full UK and full Thai nationality.?

Thai passport law states that the childs parents both must sign for the passport, unless one of the children has sole custody.

You have a memorandom of agreement, but that is not much worth in this case. It simply doesn't make you the legal father, only the court can make you the legal father and grand you sole custody. So yes, you will need to go to court.

(If the mother could be located, you could go to the amhur with mother and child and be recognised as the legal father. But probably still would have to go through court to get sole custody.)

The child can leave Thailand on the UK passport, the only thing you need to show extra is the (Thai) birth certificate to show why there is no record of her entering the country as she was born in Thailand. Sometimes checks are made to see if you have permisison of the other parent, but when the cild has your last name and says that you are indeed her father there is no problem.

I thought it would be the case of going to court, thank you for your thoughts,

Thats great news on being able to use a UK Passport to leave, The only thought i had that may complicate this was, when returning from holiday, He the child would get an entry stamp, in his UK passport...which then on the next time of holiday would look like over stay, Would the birth certificate plus the Child ID card still be ok for this, as above?

I have been reading this and http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/381917-how-to-gain-parental-rights-as-a-father/page__st__100 with interest and i have appreciated your comments Mario2008 you seemed very well informed,

I have a similar headache myself now, I have a Memorandum of Agreement signed by the birth mother, about 5 years ago. (we have not seen since, think she lives in Europe somewhere now) which basically states categorically I am the sole guardian, child has my family name, plus uk birth cert as well as thai ( I am named on both) It has been fine for everything else, name change, Thai ID card (child is nearly 10 yrs old..But I am having problems getting a Thai passport. So my question is will going to the amphur and getting myself legally recognized be enough, to get the passport, or will I need to go down the court route?

Or is there an easier route to get him a thai passport?…or can he use a uk passport with his thai ID card example So leaves Thailand with a UK passport only, but has a thai ID card, which shows he is staying in Thailand legally. And arrives in next country as a uk citizen….?

I would appreciate your thoughts

The Visa has a 3 month validity so he cut it a bit fine but he will get 60 days when he arrives. He can extend it for another 30 days at Immigration for a fee of 1,900 Baht if he wishes.

Can he not, close to the 60 days, leave Thailand, spend a few days in Singapore, As we plan to do, and then re-enter and get a normal 30 day tourist stamp, FOC ?

Sure. But that was not your question.

Sure, it wasn't the orginal query, it was a secondary clarification question asked, on extra information posted by the orginal poster, of which you have now clarified, thank you.

A visa use before date is based on the date that visa is issued. A single entry is normally three months but a multi entry non immigrant would normally be one year.

Thanks, that clarifys the difference, appricated

The Visa has a 3 month validity so he cut it a bit fine but he will get 60 days when he arrives. He can extend it for another 30 days at Immigration for a fee of 1,900 Baht if he wishes.

Can he not, close to the 60 days, leave Thailand, spend a few days in Singapore, As we plan to do, and then re-enter and get a normal 30 day tourist stamp, FOC ?

Thanks you for the quick replies

Yes I agree it is alittle close, but we have a little cushion time as he flys into KL 1st.

I asked as all my visa must enter before dates are approx plus 12months of arrival date.

and on his application he stated arrival 29th jan

Hi,

My Father has just got his tourist visa, from the UK, to visit me here in Thailand, and well it looks wrong to me. And I hoped someone could clarify it for me. The Visa states Issued on 2nd Nov 2009. Enter Before 1st Feb 2010. It is a single entry type

My father will arrive on 29th Jan 2010 So my Question is will he get 60days on entry? Because to me the Enter before date should state Something like 30th March 2010.

As we have time to sort this out, if it needs sorting out. Can someone confirm, whether he will get a sixty Day Visa?

Sorry if this has been posted before, I'm new here and couldn't find this kind of thing in already posted.

Thank you in advance