SiamWallaby

The other newspaper goes in to more detail though still not entirely specific. It needs to be remembered that this is a group of law lecturers so it would be hoped that their reasoning has more substance to it than the random ravings of the likes of Korkaew and Jutaporn.

Maybe they should rewrite the current constitution to clarify these areas which are causing so many problems???

Maybe they should change the relevant parts of the constitution rather than a complete rewrite.

Making sense like this is not looked on very positively. Be very very careful.

I gave it a go but have had some issues, the EGO T mouthpieces seem to leak very quickly and I taste burned flavour. So old school again, marlboro red

I've heard that as well as experienced it first hand. I tell anyone new to them now that the best way to go is a two piece design. Especially if its something new to you, you don't want to have to fiddle with too many parts, and cleaning etc.

3 piece designs are much older, and mimic the original invention that is about 5 years old. The newer designs combine the atomizer, and the cartridge into one piece known as a cartomizer. This is much better as far as less moving parts, less leakage etc. You can still get some juice in your mouth now and again if you're vaping in bed but you learn to either enjoy the taste if its mango or coffee flavor, or keep the e-cig pointed down.

The man who invented these brilliant little inventions did so to help his mother kick the habit, but she was already stricken with cancer. But it probably extended her life.

Sad thing is it wasn't soon enough to save my grand parents. Both smoked and both are gone. I've quit twice cold turkey for six months but started again during stressful times mostly. Then just started up again.

But I tried e-Cigs about 7 months ago, and don't even miss them. And here is what convinced me these things were for real, and have staying power.

On New Years at Jomtien, had a bit to drink, as you do on New Years. Really buzzed, not fall down drunk though. At any rate, this is the time when I'd always crave a cigarette. Even if I had quit, and knew I shouldn't smoke, sometimes I'd cheat on New Years since it was just a once off.

But no not this time. I am serious, not even a single TWINGE of missing cigarettes.

This is why people who use these are so passionate about them, and are willing to fight for them. If you've every tried and failed at quitting you will appreciate what I mean. It doesn't feel good to know that you're basically a drug addict.

With these though, I can get my fix in a discreet way, and I'll even hit it sometimes in the grocery store, or in the doctors office lol I get Thai's asking me all the time what they are. But I'm paranoid about that because here, the government owns cigarettes so you could end up in jail if you want to get off of tobacco in Thailand. I always wondered why it was so hard to find patches. I remember years ago when I was desperate to quit, and I walked all over Bangkok going into every pharmacy I could find, and took me 7 shops til I found one, and then it was the really weak strength ones. All had gum though..yuk.

Nope I'm an ex smoker now, and I hook up Thai's all the time. I believe we should take a doctor's word on the safety and health of these over a bureaucrats. Doctor's always worry about getting sued for saying the wrong thing, so if Doctor's are coming out n saying its a good thing, or at least it should be looked into, thats good for me.

The arguments against are silly. Some say its a tobacco product still. I guess if they're tobacco products then I kill trees when I read an e-book as well Because of course e-book are paper products.

And serioiusly, if the FDA in American even half heartedly believed they were tobacco products, they would have regulated them that way first. But they tried as a drug delivery mechanism first. So that just tells you that its all about the money.

These things save lives, full stop. The inventor should get a nobel prize. He'll be responsible for as many saved lives as pasteur was when he got penicillin going.

Another argument against them is that they haven't been proven safe.

An article I read today addressed that and I laughed. What if the government required a sticker on our cars that said --

WARNING: Sober Driving is not a Safe Alternative to Drunk Driving

You can get in an accident pretty easy sober. You can get in one probably a bit easier if you're drunk. But both ways you're taking a risk.

So it is with e-Cigs. They aren't healthy. They ARE HEALTHIER than tobacco.

By the way, when did they prove scientifically that airplanes were safe? Must have slept through that one.

And so they are trying to find a way to tax them. Now remember, their justification for taxing the dog snot out of tobacco in the first place was the extra health burden that they placed on the government. Which no longer applies to e-cigs. Vaping is going to save a lot of lives, but they will stand in the way and help tobacco companies because they can not figure out a way to replace the lost taxes

that they are TOTALLY ADDICTED to. Worse than we ever were with nicotine.

Please stay way from the e-Health brand though, I've heard bad bad things about them and when I tested them they really were not representative of what an e-cig is. I help Thai's all the time, and will help Farangs as well, with e-Juice or E-Cigs, parts, accessories, etc. I have a web site but not going to spam it in the forum.

If you seriously want to know more, just pm me. If you want to be free of those nasty tasting things, and be free of the money-grubbing companies (and governments) that peddle em.

.

Don't come.

New TAT slogan?

No, the new TAT slogan will be something along the lines of "Flood? What flood? . . . oh, and don't forget the water wings!"

Or Welcome to the LOS - Land of Sandbags

Wow...don't know what to say. I'm sorry for the position you are in, but I think you have a good chance of resolving it if you really want to.

You do need to get your daughter legitimized. All of your options begin right there. Adoption by your current wife won't even be possible until you legalize anyway. So you let everyone in your family know this and explain that is why you must get the legitimization done first. If they decide to check up, they'll find out you are telling the truth.

Are you sure you can't track down your old girlfriend? Maybe a private investigator? You can't legitimize at the ampur anyway. Your daughter is too young. You'll need to go through Thai family court. That will cost you around 30k - 50k depending on your lawyer. It usually takes about 3 months, so you can spread the payments out over time. Maybe 10k per month for 3 months and 10k as an incentive to get your old girlfriend to appear. All your old girlfriend needs to do is just show up and answer a few questions. If you can't find your girlfriend, find her parents and offer them the money if they can make their daughter appear.

Once you are the legal father of your daughter, then you finally have the authority to put your foot down with the inlaws. And you have to start being honest with your wife about what you need to see if you are going to allow her to adopt your daughter. If you and she can not come to an agreement on how to raise your daughter, then you have a very tough choice to make. But at least you can make it knowing your daughter will be with you no matter what.

The key to all of this is deciding what you want and then following up. What your inlaws want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. What you want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. Everyone's goals should be in alignment right now, so the first step should be easy. Take a bus to Rayong this weekend and track down your old girlfriend.

Gregb,

Thanks a lot. I appreciate you taking the time to write this and it sure is spot on. I've felt that's the place to start, but for several reasons I admit to being a little slack on that issue. Your post confirming this inspires me and I'm going to try n get there this weekend.

I wonder why I was quoted 200k though...50k or so I'd surely be able to swing somehow. Thats a big difference. First things first though, off to Rayong!

I would do it slightly differently

First I would do a missing persons report on the mother, that you should have done a long time ago by the way. Be careful to state when the mother last had contact with the child, that will be used as evidence in juvenile court

Yes, your rights start with a court case; Negotiations are always better so if you are pretty sure that the mother won't object too much then OK, spend a bit of time finding her. If you think it is unlikely that she will agree to sign over sole custody to you, then you can just go ahead and file where you and the child live now. You would request legitimization and sole custody on the grounds of abandonment... Not shared custody. If you want to bring the child out of Thailand, then you must get sole custody, the mother can veto that you bring the child out of Thailand until she's approx 15 otherwise

The court will send a letter to the mothers registered address, her problem if she comes or not and it looks better for you if she doesn't. You will eventually be granted sole custody if the mother doesn't show up, you're unlikely to be granted it if she does. Juvenile court is all about negotiations, facilitating payment to the mother is not a bad idea. The courts will not remove the mothers custody if she fights to keep it. Mothers visitation rights are almost holy so do not say that you want to leave Thailand with the child, you plan to stay forever is good. You do plan to take your child to visit her relatives in Australia and come back again though, no problems

I would not tell the family anything about legitimization. Most Thais know that mother and father are the only ones with rights, many poorer Thais with low education thinks that father has more rights than mother even. You Are The Father, It Is Your Child and NoOne Except Father And Mother Has Any Rights WhatSoEver To Your Child. End of Story - The in-laws probably don't know that you need to get legitimized but if they do, then just keep quiet for 4 months or so (2 months too short, 3 OK if mother agrees but it will be 4 to 6 if mother doesn't show up). Regardless, they know that they have no rights. If needed, then I would add that if anyone else than father or mother takes the child or denies father or mother access, then it is kidnapping and jail behind bars according to Thai law.

Adoption: I Am The Father And I will Never Accept Anyone To Adopt My Daughter, Full Stop. Turn around and walk out into the kitchen if anyone wants to continue discussing the matter

30 to 50K is possible for a Thai speaking lawyer but it may not be enough if the mother fights. Forget 200K, that's a rip-off. 15K possible if mother agrees

It sounds like you would never accept anyone to adopt your child, I am glad to hear that. Especially considering the history of your first child. It is only fair that you let people know that

Good Luck Proud Daddy

Michael

Michael,

Thanks for the input and alternative approach. That was one question I did have, about the missing persons report. Some of have said to file the report just after it happens, as you obviously

feel is best too. When I considered this (early on) I didnt feel right doing it because it wasn't the truth. My ex did not abandon her daughter. She had other children previously and realized she'd not be

able to afford raising another child. She also knew my history with my previous daughter and so willingly gave her to me (under law this may be abandonment anyway, not sure). If we were under western law this would be pretty straight forward. Possession is 9/10s of the law as they say.

As I found out more about Thai law I saw how precarious my position was but wasnt too fussed because the ex had disappeared, and didn't know where my daughter and I were living. At the time I was quite happy just to

wait til she was about 4 or so, and rock up the the ampur and get her legitimized. Recent events have given me a wake up call.

Even though I'm not sure about getting her a passport, as what I was told in the embassy was that both parents must give permission..what they said I needed to do was register her. The second trip into Bangkok during working hours and during a working day, finding them closed again really got me upset, and felt like making a scene. I was just walking toward the citizenship area and the guard grabbed my shoulder and said I couldnt go back there. He couldnt explain why they were closed either. So it is what it is, that was a few months ago. So I guess in all fairness I should have just quit my job and camped out on the steps until they opened...but i chose not to.

After Rayong I will next sort out the embassy, and get a solicitor of some sort.

This is the first time (I think) I've posted something like this asking for help on ANY forum, and thought it could only help. In a way it has I guess, but I am

surprised that for every decent person trying to help there's 3 or 4 who just want to take the pizz out of someone for no apparent reason.

Not much different though from when you say a friendly "gday" to some farang here in thailand and they give ya the dirtiest of looks. Just have to laugh and feel sorry for the miserable sods.

A sincere thanks to those who have chimed in though, with their advice and experiences.

The thread should be closed now though, as I dont think I'll be checking it any more. I'll sort it immediately, and if I need pointers I'll private message individuals.

I feel for you but it seems to me you've gotten some excellent advice in both posts (though admittedly more so in the latter):

There are definite steps you can and must take. Start them. As the man said (in his high quality post), "The key to all of this is deciding what you want and then following up."

And Man-Up. Stop letting your in-laws push you around. They constantly keep you from your daughter? Punish her for speaking English? Why stand for that?!

Moreover if your wife is complicit in it at all -- even just by acquiescing to it -- it seems to me that's something you need to recognize and resolve (one way or another). Your wife is not about to take your side in any dispute? Sound to me, frankly, that your problems are not confined to your in-laws or even custody of your daughter...

Ahh..the ol "man up" issue.

My father didn't do a lot for me, but two things he told me I still remember and try to live by:

1) there are three things you can do in any situation - like it, change it, or leave it.

2) ANY action, even the WRONG action, is better than no action at all.

Now I have two posts that say I need to man up, so I guess it wouldn't hurt to play along and honestly ask myself if that is true.

I didnt realize the post sounded so whiny to some people, it was surely not my intent. The details of what the in laws do and my reaction to them I left out as it was already

a really long post.

But no where did I say I let them get away with it. On the contrary, I've taken them to task on pretty much everything.

For example, on the speaking english situation, I caught them verbally reprimanding her (with light slap on hand) and telling her to speak thai when she kept

repeating "flower" because that was the only word for flower she knew. I grabbed my daughter and took her away on the spot. When my wife

got home from work I told her that they need to stop this sort of thing or they will never see her again, and there is no guarantee I will be able

to control my urge to put my foot up their backside. That hasn't happened again since. Explain how I should have handled that better or "man up"

I'll be happy to listen.

I've explained to my wife I dont like her running around nekkid outdoors, even though I know its thai culture to do it. The inlaws let her of course, even

after I've asked. On this one, I decide to choose my battles for the most part and let it slide. Except when I see it, I take her and put clothes back on her, hoping

they will get the message. That was fine for a time, until the day they took the clothes back off just minutes after I'd put the clothes on. Again there I put

my foot down. Not happening again I said, and I'm quite tired of having to threaten them every time, why wont they just simply cooperate? Especially over

a simple matter..I dont want to have a big drama over simple things like that, yet I wont stand for the disrespect either. Again explain how I should handle it differently and

"man up" I'll listen.

Recently, when I woke up, they jumped up from their meal, grabbed my daughter and took her into their room and locked the door. I called at the door ..they ignored it.

So I rapped on the door a bit. See the pattern here? So I've had a gut ful and I'm taking my daughter since I can think of no way to get through to them. My wife says she

understands my view but they are her parents and must be respected. So fine she can take care of them, I will take care of my daughter if thats what it takes.

So I am taking action, after patiently trying to be reasonable and give some latitude due to culture differences. I'm sure I've made some mistakes a long the way

but just saying "MAN UP" is kind of a weak way to try and have a go at someone.

And now that I've "defended" myself lol I probably just cemented your opinion anyway. Ok I'm a EUNUCH lol whatever floats your boat.

The real issue is that I'm taking action and not taking it anymore, starting with getting my daughter legitimized and then away from this situation.

Wow...don't know what to say. I'm sorry for the position you are in, but I think you have a good chance of resolving it if you really want to.

You do need to get your daughter legitimized. All of your options begin right there. Adoption by your current wife won't even be possible until you legalize anyway. So you let everyone in your family know this and explain that is why you must get the legitimization done first. If they decide to check up, they'll find out you are telling the truth.

Are you sure you can't track down your old girlfriend? Maybe a private investigator? You can't legitimize at the ampur anyway. Your daughter is too young. You'll need to go through Thai family court. That will cost you around 30k - 50k depending on your lawyer. It usually takes about 3 months, so you can spread the payments out over time. Maybe 10k per month for 3 months and 10k as an incentive to get your old girlfriend to appear. All your old girlfriend needs to do is just show up and answer a few questions. If you can't find your girlfriend, find her parents and offer them the money if they can make their daughter appear.

Once you are the legal father of your daughter, then you finally have the authority to put your foot down with the inlaws. And you have to start being honest with your wife about what you need to see if you are going to allow her to adopt your daughter. If you and she can not come to an agreement on how to raise your daughter, then you have a very tough choice to make. But at least you can make it knowing your daughter will be with you no matter what.

The key to all of this is deciding what you want and then following up. What your inlaws want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. What you want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. Everyone's goals should be in alignment right now, so the first step should be easy. Take a bus to Rayong this weekend and track down your old girlfriend.

Gregb,

Thanks a lot. I appreciate you taking the time to write this and it sure is spot on. I've felt that's the place to start, but for several reasons I admit to being a little slack on that issue. Your post confirming this inspires me and I'm going to try n get there this weekend.

I wonder why I was quoted 200k though...50k or so I'd surely be able to swing somehow. Thats a big difference. First things first though, off to Rayong!

Actually, if you can find your old girlfriend and get an independent, Thai only speaking lawyer, the legal fees may be as little as 15k for an uncontested appearance. The important part is tracking down the mother of your child and getting her before the judge. Once that is done and you have legal custody of your daughter, the world opens up to you.

Thanks again Greg, you're a legend.

I'm actually going to bring the birth certificate with me to Rayong, on the off chance I can grab her by the hair and take her to the ampur and get it sorted there. Doubtful but you never know til you try. ;o)

Wow...don't know what to say. I'm sorry for the position you are in, but I think you have a good chance of resolving it if you really want to.

You do need to get your daughter legitimized. All of your options begin right there. Adoption by your current wife won't even be possible until you legalize anyway. So you let everyone in your family know this and explain that is why you must get the legitimization done first. If they decide to check up, they'll find out you are telling the truth.

Are you sure you can't track down your old girlfriend? Maybe a private investigator? You can't legitimize at the ampur anyway. Your daughter is too young. You'll need to go through Thai family court. That will cost you around 30k - 50k depending on your lawyer. It usually takes about 3 months, so you can spread the payments out over time. Maybe 10k per month for 3 months and 10k as an incentive to get your old girlfriend to appear. All your old girlfriend needs to do is just show up and answer a few questions. If you can't find your girlfriend, find her parents and offer them the money if they can make their daughter appear.

Once you are the legal father of your daughter, then you finally have the authority to put your foot down with the inlaws. And you have to start being honest with your wife about what you need to see if you are going to allow her to adopt your daughter. If you and she can not come to an agreement on how to raise your daughter, then you have a very tough choice to make. But at least you can make it knowing your daughter will be with you no matter what.

The key to all of this is deciding what you want and then following up. What your inlaws want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. What you want can most easily be achieved by tracking down your old girlfriend. Everyone's goals should be in alignment right now, so the first step should be easy. Take a bus to Rayong this weekend and track down your old girlfriend.

Gregb,

Thanks a lot. I appreciate you taking the time to write this and it sure is spot on. I've felt that's the place to start, but for several reasons I admit to being a little slack on that issue. Your post confirming this inspires me and I'm going to try n get there this weekend.

I wonder why I was quoted 200k though...50k or so I'd surely be able to swing somehow. Thats a big difference. First things first though, off to Rayong!

You will not lose her unless you let it happen.

Man up a little bit and grow a set by the sounds of it....you sound like a sissy letting in laws boss you about and take control of your daughter......christ almighty some people need a leash.

You're entitled to your opinion.

Here's mine: It takes more of a "set" to put up with the cr*p until I can find a solution that doesn't permanently damage my daughter, then it does to simply bugger off n go back home.

Takes a bit of a "set" to swallow my pride and ask for input, advice or even help. At least you were sensible enough to include "sounds like" because the post was already too long that

I didnt include a lot of the other details such as how I confront them regularly, pretty much on a daily basis. These started out very firm but polite but they're getting more nasty as my repeated

warnings go unheeded. As for you Dag, I'm glad you've not been in this situation your self, because I'd wager you'd handle it quite differently with unpredictable results. Thai's in my experience

try to "act" like they have control of their emotions but like most things here, its not what it seems. When they go troppo its not a pretty sight. I prefer to try and use my head first before my fist or boots come out.

For the past two years or so, I've been ready to go back home to Australia.

There are a lot of reasons, but primarily because I'd like to work in my field, use my education and

I still have about 10-15 years before I consider retiring. Teaching is fine but I feel I'm wasting my career

experience and post grad education.

Before I lay out the situation, let me say that once I had my daughter, I did try to read up on parental rights of fathers

here on TV and have also visited an attorney in Bangkok.

Since those early days I've felt stuck, as in a "catch 22" situation. As in I can't go home, and if I stay need to jump

through hoops and beg someone to let me stay. Actually, I could leave, but I would have to abandon my daughter.

My first daughter from a previous marriage died at 4 months old, and as I always (since 25 or so) wanted to have a family,

her death hit me hard. Now that I have my daughter, I'm loath to giver her up.

My daughter was surprise, as my and my girlfriend had already broken up. My wonderful teaching job failed to tell me they

didnt pay on school holidays and since I was only a month into the job, going two months without pay really hurt the finances.

My girlfriend smelled it coming and of course ran for the hills, or back to Rayong at least, where I found her.

Then she called and said she had a problem. By then I had a nice new stable job in BKK and when she told me she was having

my baby i was happy and told her I'd love to take care of her. She rang me when she was born, and I drove down to Rayong to

pick her up when she was about 10 days old. She's been with me since and she's just over 2 now.

I only heard from the mother once since then, when she asked me for some money, I wired it to her and havent heard from her since.

At the time I was just happy to have my daughter, and my gratitude is what drove that decision..not the sick buffalo story.

Soon after getting a few thins organized, I read here that I had no parental rights at all. I am of course listed on the birth certificate

as the father, but when the mother handed me the baby I had no idea I should go to the Ampur first and have her legitimize it. Although a

bit concerned about this situation, I figured I had possession, and was the biological father so what did I need to worry about. But I went

and visited an attorney anyway.

He concurred that I do not have any parental rights, but since the mother is who knows where, it shouldnt be a problem. However he can

"fix" the situation for 200k baht. Nice huh. Single father needs to hand over 200k to show he has a right to be the parent when he is already

the de facto sole guardian. Needless to say I didn't think that was fair at all - and I do know the world is not fair.

So time goes on, meet a decent lady and get married. So now it is even more complicated. The complication is actually the in laws.

They treat me really bad, but love my daughter. My wife is caught in the middle and I dont care for it at all. The in laws actually want me

to sign her over to my wife, and they really want to have my daughter for themselves. I know this sounds harsh but observation and overheard

conversations convince me I'd be a fool not to acknowledge that.

My original plan was to wait until my daughter was 6 or so, and try and get her an Australian passport then. I really dont want to wait

four more years, plus I dont think I can take 4 more years of having a daughter (after waiting and wanting so long) who is constantly kept from me

in my own home. Yes they even sometimes punish her for speaking english, fancy that. You are thai they say. I could go on and on about the details

but its not that relevant. Just suffice it to say they have taken over my daughters life and I feel powerless to stop it, and although I love my wife, I'm willing to

leave her if I must protect my daughter from these people who seem to know nothing but nasty behavior.

As far as I know the only thing I can do is pay the 200k to an attorney. I've considered going to teach in China for a year to save up the money, but

I'm pretty convinced when I get back ready to pay the money my daughter will be long gone.

If thats the case I may just have to accept it. I'm not the first man in the world who's lost the right to see their children unfortunately.

Never thought I'd lose her to people who are not even her blood kin though.

I know I need to register her with the embassy. Twice I have made the trip there but have not been able to do so as they were closed for two different reasons both times.

I know if I could find the mother and convince her to help me ...it would make it a lot easier. I've tried for quite a while to find her. I plan on making one more trip down

to rayong to knock on her door one last time. Chances are though she'll insist I sign her over to my thai wife.

I"m at my wits end though, and its effecting my emotional well being more than I care to admit.

I am pretty sure the in laws can not take her away from me legally, but my wife is not about to take my side in any dispute and the neighbors already have changed how they act toward me as well.

I'm concerned, reasonably so I think, that there could be a plan afoot that would involve falsehoods and accusations that would break my heart and at best temporarily separate me from my daughter

and at worst land me in jail until I can pay or prove my innocence. I sure hope its mild paranoia but with honest introspection I do need to be careful.

I'm going to read through these threads again too see if I over looked something, just in case. If anyone has any ideas or advice I would love to hear it.

If not, just be careful you dont get yourself into these situations. And for GODS sakes, be skeptical when told "Its just Thai culture, accept it."

Well, what can I say. I always know that Thai are the beasts. This case just proved again it's good idea to left this country.

With that kind of slur against Thai people perhaps it is a god idea that you have left this country.

Hopefully someone will be held accountable, but we all know how the corridors of justice work.

The vast majority of Thai people are gentle and kind.

A tragic situation for the Swedish man, R.I.P. , but what were the reasons he was so grievously assaulted?

Thais are no more vicious than a gang of English high street thugs, or any other nationality for that matter.

The reason why I said you has been many times on Thaivisa already - assulting and muredering foreigners. An police just don't do any movement because they are Thai but we are nobody and nothing here.

Do you know statistic of insurance companies - the most number of foreigners asking for medical help exactly in Thailand. Guess why?

And.. Do you really think that Thai people will be gentl to you if they need something from you - you money or your property or you life?

Food poisoning ?

Drunk motorbike crashes ?

Drunk fights ?

Drunk accidents ?

My money's on "bashing heads against a wall when there is no alcohol sold on holidays"

Really Thai Visa - where are the mods?

How many racists comments go unpunished on these boards.

"These" people are psychopaths

This illustrates just how helpful Thai's are not in these situations.

I always know that Thai are the beasts.

do you clowns really think this does not happen in London and New York. Do you think greater numbers never pick on smaller numbers in these places.

If you dont like here LEAVE - simple. I know many Thai's and most are as nice if not nicer than many many wwesterners I have met. Both living here and abroad.

I really thought TV was beter than this. STOP racists comments. Please.

Graham.

Huh? You think the people that did this AREN'T psychopaths?

It's hard to steer clear of commenting on Thais because it is the Thais that are involved. Hardly being racist.

I have to agree with this. Most of us (I hope) would feel bad for the guy even if it was "high street thugs" that did this to him.

Then we'd also wonder if he there was something behind it he may have done to provoke it.

And we'd also wonder if anyone was around that might have helped.

Doesnt make us racist. Although I'd hardly say something as inflammatory as "Thai's are beasts" there is something to be said

of the differences in the cultures. A yaba/crack crazed band of thugs is scary in any country (if thats what they were) and easily could be psychopaths.

Is it any better or morally more upstanding to just scream at people "if you dont like it just go home!!" lol

Personally, I'd love to go home now, any time in the past three years. I think this is a great place to visit, but living is another story.

But to leave I'd have to leave my daughter alone, as her mum disappeared and thai law does not recognize me being father just

because I'm on the birth certificate. I have to pay 200,000 baht to get my parental rights, or wait until she's six years old. I choose

not to abandon my daughter as much as I'd like to leave. So tell me to leave all you want, better yet tell the government to kick me out it

would be cheaper ;o)

Jus my two bobs.

With 12 men, they can blame each other, and in the end, nobody will go to jail. The Men in Brown will probably find that the foreigner stole the knife from one of the 12 and slashed himself.

lol sad but true.. TIT

Then perhaps it is time for the USA to have a control when people board an airplane in the USA so their criminals stay there.

And England, and Germany, and France, and every other country who has had fugitives arrested in Thailand recently. But what fun is acknowledging that every country has criminals when you can bad mouth the country that the entire world depends on for prosperity?

I don't think that the world depends on the the US for prosperity that is a falacy. I don;t think the U.S is economy is in very shape and the U.S dollars has slipped. Weren't they also going to take away the U.S credit rating also? A lot more prosperity in Australia at the moment without any help from the U.S.

Here here!

They don't call us "The Lucky Country" for nothing m8.

I do fear that we're just keepin our head above water because of all the natural res's we have though. Time will tell.

A good idea in some respects. It also enables Big Brother to know where you are.

^ Indeed.....Indeed. Big brother wants to know all....

Thank You but I will pass.

Who cares what they know unless you have something to be afraid of ?

Yep, and because I dont care for body cavity searches in domestic airports to fly 300 miles, I guess I have something to hide. Surely I must be a terrorist.

Guess we were all terrorist before 9/11 ...smh

Kind of reminds me of the "gays in the military" debate, where if you weren't comfortable taking showers with a naked gay man, you were Homo PHOBIC at best..

red neck insecure with his masculinity at worse. Privacy never even entered into the discussion. I wonder why? The surely wouldnt make females shower with men though.

Its not a conspiracy, or some agenda that powerful people are pushing as some people and the truly paranoid would profess, but if you don't see the erosion of privacy and loss of

rights in the good ol land of the free...Well thats why the word SHEEPLE was invented.

As another poster has pointed out, if the needed to find me, they could. And if I ever do something wrong, I might be worried about it, but I'm sure not going to make it easy for them when

I have no reason to be chased or found.

Burns my backside seeing whats happening in a country I loved and once was willing to die for. A country my father and grandfather, and many more in my family died to protect. They gave their lives

to protect these rights that the politicians take away with a simple wave of their pen.

A lot of us would probably feel different if they approached it something like "We'd appreciate if US expats would register with us, because we want to be able to quickly get the word out in emergencies etc."

then again maybe I'd still be skeptical ;o)

Glad to be watching from a distance.

I got a good laugh once, when a Thai male friend of mine was explaining that in some places, eating with a fork is considered rude. As he was explaining that the fork is used only to scoop food onto the spoon, he started to dig for gold in one of his nostrils. Couldn't laugh out loud until I got back home, but I did for sure. I asked the gf if I should use a fork or spoon when "digging for gold".

The Thai Police allowed their main international airport to be overrun and occupied by a gang of protesters

Their Prime Ministers motorcade to be attacked.

And also an international ASEAN Summit to be invaded.

A gang of rip off Tuk Tuk drivers should not even raise an eyelid.

Seriously.

agreed.

we need to vent, we live here

the reason this thread had 1400 ACTIVE viewers few hours ago is because we know we can be beaten or worse at any given moment..

by 'we' I mean farangs living in a major tourist area.

Simple fact is that nothing will ever change here. We learn to live here, we know never to argue with a local, we learn not to make eye contact, we get used to keep our eyes focused on a ground.

Because we have made our homes here we are slowly turning into something less than humans.. maybe that is the price we need to pay.. a permission to live in a foreign land.. never to be equal to locals. This makes me sad. It used to make me angry, it now just makes me sad. Slowly I get used to being a dog.

We're not even above Dogs in this country, sorry to say. And yes I already know that if I dont like it I can leave, but I can't at the moment for reasons I won't get into at this time.

Walking with my young daughter down a soi, one of the nice healthy looking soi dogs had a go at me. Scared the bejeezus outta me to be honest, especially with my 6 month old daughter. I put her on the bonnet of a near by car, and grabbed my keys out of my pocket as that was the closest thing to a "weapon" I had. Turned to face the dog, which had stopped still barking menacingly. He lunged once but I caught his lip with a punch and possibly the keys too..not sure. He yelped a bit but didnt back off. I picked up my daughter, and began backing down the street carefully. Two thai guys from the nearby taxi rank came out and started shouting at me of course. At first I thought maybe I had crossed into someones property or something else the dog might have been protecting but for the life of me didn't see anything like that..I was in the middle of a soi for christ sakes. The thai's passed the dog and kept shouting at me while I slowly walked backwards down the soi to the main street. Sad really. I'm sure the guys had seen the whole thing and knew I was simply walking down the street after leaving a 7-11 and carrying a young child was protective of her, but for some reason they were angry at me for striking (and only glancing really) the dog, in clear self defense. Oh well, TiT.

And the lazy, ineffective authorities are surprised? Thuggish violent and abusive, these supposedly public service providers have a litany of complaints against them going back years. What a joke. But not for the victims.

They have allowed this situation, and many others like it, to go on for years. I have said it before here....the longer these thugs are allowed to do what they want whenever they want...the harder it will be to control them.

I fear this line has been passed long ago.

What would be fun is to have a thug patrol and beat the shit out of the lawless low life that cause all the problems. We should start a web site with profiles "Mug Shots" of these type of people and anytime they create problems we send the thug patrol out for a blanket party.......for those of you who don't know what a blanket party is..it is were you throw a blanket over the perpetrator and beat him as hard as you can with a stick.

Funny you should mention this scenario. While reading it, I was reminded of the "blue shirts" who were locals directly impacted by the "protests" of the "red shirts" (and maybe previously yellow as well) in Pattaya and BKK. Believe it or not, there are some Thai's who realize that the mob mentality directly impacts their "bottom line" ability to make a living. And when enough of them do, they decide to police themselves, or fight mob mentality with mob mentality. Its probably just a matter of time before some of these tourist dependant merchants organize themselves similarly and put an end to the transport mafia. The unfortunate thing is, the understanding of "big picture" and "Action A causes reaction B" is a big challenge to the average local. But as you saw during the Red Shirt protests last year, eventually someone gets the word out that the wrong kind of behavior impacts them all, and someone will start "blanket partying" the perpetrators. And way before a politician or the BiB will, for sure.

Yep, she's from Khon Kaen, so makes her an Isaan girl. However, she isn't the BG type. She does have a high-end job in Bangkok and is very sophisticated and career-oriented.

I'm still trying to figure out the whole "bad woman" thing, and sadly enough it could mean she's been messing around. Only time will tell...

Thanks for the advice and the warnings and after I've healed up from all this, I just might find a good decent lady in LOS....no matter if it's Yim or someone else!

Guess I should chime in. Of course I dont know her and we're getting only one side of the story but..

All women (people for that matter) get lonely, its only a matter of time. LDR's are hard because of exactly that. Thai women seem to be even more susceptible than most in my experience. She probably did, or still does, love you, but met someone else in the mean time. That could leave one or two situations. The guy is just "Mr. Right Now" and you're still "Mr. Right" but she feels guilty about it. Or, she is actually now in love with this guy and doesn't want to confront you about it or hurt your feelings.

You best bet, if this girl has showed you anything about what it means to be in a relationship with a Thai woman, is make up your mind to actually come here for a while. Find a nice girl (and its not as easy as it seems) and give it a go again. Don't do it until you're situated either to stay in LOS or take someone back with you. Once you've got that in mind, the other things will fall in place. But dont expect it to be easy. As always, try and find a book called "Thailand Fever" and read it either yourself or with your new love. Relationships take a lot of work in any situation, in a cross cultural situation its multiplied tenfold. But the rewards are amazing, Thai women are very unique in so many ways.

I wish you the best of luck!

I bought this course a couple of months ago, and started using it a little over 1 month ago. So far I have been impressed by what the course offers in structure, layout and content.

What you get: a 1000+ page ebook, accompanying practice lessons with full audio using a program called ANKI, this software basically allows you to drill the practice lessons, and schedules the drills according to how well you are progressing, but this is completely flexible and you can schedule as you wish.

I have only just started the course so can only comment on the tone and reading sections, these are the first things taught, mastering the tones and learning how to read. I really liked the format of the tones as I can play them again and again in a very flexible way. On the downside, I found the pronounciation of many of words (mainly the exagerated stretching out of long vowels) made the tones difficult to hear and some even seemed like the wrong tone. Its hard for me to judge as tones are my weak spot, so it could be just me.

The reading section was excellent, I already know how to read, but had never learnt the names of the letters, I found the course very effective in teaching me all the letters and vowels and learning the rules for reading again reminded me of things I had forgetten, my reading skills have defintely improved quickly. The audio accompanying this section, and the training on pronoucing each or the letters and vowels was very good and corrected my mistakes in prounciation and clarified alot of pronounciation issues for me.

There are a few typos here and there in the ebook, but these are only minor niggles as I enjoy doing the course and spend about an hour or more a day on it, without feeling the least bit bored.

Out of 10 so far I would give it an 8. ( I would have given a 9 or even 10 if it wasnt for some of the accompanying audio).

Is it worth the $140? Hard to judge so early on, but I have no regrets so far.

I am also a relatively recent customer of the HighSpeedThai product. After using Thai for Beginners, and attending classes, and a tutor, I'd have to say its the best so far.

Of course it doesnt hurt that I have a native speaker available to practice with. ANKI is very impressive and makes it really easy to practice regularly and focus your practice on the concepts/works/sounds that arent' quite sticking as fast.

I had some issues with the file soon after purchase, and Vincent was right on the ball giving me a new copy that I could work with, and has also sent follow up emails to me to inquire on my progress and solicit feedback. I'd say he's earned my respect as to a decent company/person to do business with. Is it worth the price? Yes its a bit scary at first, and a bit of a risk I'd say. Only because you're not too sure what your getting prior to purchase, even with the amount of time he's put into the samples and video samples. Once you get everything, I think its obvious that he's put a lot of effort and thought into the program and just seeing the progress i've made so far I cant' fault the price one bit.

There's a few other people I know who have been trying/struggling to pick up Thai and I've recommended it to them as well. So I'd give it a definite thumbs up.

Keep in mind however, Thai is not an easy language to master. And learning any new language takes diligent work and practice. I'm wondering how the Thai's do it lol I've studied/spoken Spanish, French, German, Russian and nothing comes close. Of course the latin based languages can be expected to be easier, but I picked up Russian far easier than Thai for sure.

So if you're committed to learning this difficult language for whatever reason, make sure you've put some thought into it, and INVEST the time and money in the best tool out there..is my opinion.

Virgil,

You are such a sweetheart and that's the problem here. You are basically charting the lines in the sand right now. And they are already <deleted> with you. Things in this country work very different than in the west. Often the opposite of what we tend to think works. If you can, the best thing is just to get her to OZ without marrying her.

Now 38 is young. In this country, girls get married to 50 year old guys when they are 16. You are basically doing her parents and her a big favor by taking her and taking care of her. Marriage or no marriage.

All this talk about money just makes me sick! You're stressing about it and getting sucked into the game. Take control of the situation. At the end of the day she will be with you if you marry her or not and if you give money or not. Call the whole thing off because the money thing makes you sick and you'll see a whole family running after you and agreeing to everything you say. And the most important thing is that you will gain their respect. Respect goes a long way in this country. And they will not try to <deleted> with you after that.

Thai people have no business sense. They already have a great deal (you). You are willing to marry their daughter who is, in Thai society, over the hill because if her age. But they still try to push it and milk you for more. And you because you are a nice guy think you need to go along with it. You don't! You can do what ever you want. It's your life. In two years you will still be a rich young man. But their daughter will be over the hill (as far as they see it). You don't need to negotiate, you can name a number. Zero is probably the best number. Don't forget. In FarangLand the person who pays makes the rules. Who said you need to dance to their song?

You are basically making the rules now. Back paddling is really hard once you are on the way. Better be over strict now because problems will arise in the future. Don't make any money promises. In fact make it clear not to ask you for money when the cow dies, the roof falls off or the grandmother is sick. They will ask you anyway but then you have something to fall on and say: "I told you not to ask me".

Virg...

I've read this forum thread with great interest, because I feel I've been where you've been. Except for meeting over the internet part, I too got sucked into the game, and had to make some hard choices, especially where it comes to drawing the lines. You're in conflict on how much you should accept another culture, and be flexible, and how much you should be a man and be true to your principles. Thats natural, and I applaud you for gathering opinions and experiences of others for insight.

Before I met my current wife, I almost fell for the "sick buffalo" routine. Luckily I found out that its a common method of manipulation, and yet I cared for this girl and didnt want her worried about her family, and didnt want to seem like I was cheap. Then a mate of mine said "What would her family have done before she met you?"

During my next one, I decided that I'd make some ground rules early on. Remember, you are a man and therefore have some latitude in looking at this logically, just as a woman has some latitude in looking at it emotionally. You are/will be taking on a liability mate! Should you pay for this "priviledge"? Was she better off before she met you or will you provide her a better future? If that was the only angle then of course she/her family should be paying you for christ sakes lol. But yes, there is other angles. You care about her and by proxy her family and so do want to show some respect to their culture. But keep those points in the back of your mind if you feel you are losing negotiating leverage or perspective on this situation. My wife subtly got the hint that I'd be hurt but not dead if I walked away from the whole thing, so was happy to negotiate a much more reasonable and face saving solution. And for me I guess it didnt hurt that I'd been married in Oz before and wasn't that keen on the marriage thing anyway. On the other hand I did respect that since she was a virgin the parents would expect some compensation under their culture and traditions.

Also, do read the book that a previous poster mentioned called "Thailand Fever". Its written in both English and Thai on opposing pages, so its easy for you two to read together...brilliant read actually.

Hope this helps a bit, sounds like you could be going into it with a clearer head than when you first posted. Hope I'm right. Best of luck.

How do you really know she didn't deserve it?

Im not going to say what should be done or what can be done, and what the outcome will be

everyone has different idea of how much they are willing to risk

but for anyone to suggest that a woman deserves to be beaten is just wrong.

no one deserves to be treated like that, regardless of what she has done.

if she really did something terrible, and a man takes it upon himself to beat her, then he is worse than her. and for a man who was not involved in the scene (hence she did nothing to him) to suggest it, is the lowest of all morality in my opinion.

its because of attitudes like this that so much violence against women continue on an everyday basis. I never thought Id have to encounter such a man personally.

Just to clarify, the post (I think) you are referring to was not saying she deserved it, but it may be the case that *she* felt she deserved it. An attempt to explain the seemingly illogical return of the victim to the situation.

Myself, although I've not been tested under fire since my last episode, have gone "Sir Galahad" three times, once in Australia, and twice in the USA. Each time the "victim" was asked if they needed help, and so I provided it. All three times the victim turned on me. And believe me I was not out to get revenge for her, simply calm the guy down. So now I swear I would never get involved in a domestic in farangland, let alone in Thailand.

Yes its sad, and goes against everything I've been taught. And actually I've not tested my resolve under fire and can't say if I'd be able to control my urge to help someone in need. But when emotion and adrenaline are not involved and I'm thinking clearly, its no contest. Some women will never change, and for others its a process, and they need to get to the point where they are willing to take a stand and leave. Either way, its not up to me to project my values onto them, and even trying to provide safety to a stranger who obviously needs it and even verbalizes it just ends up getting you medical bills you really don't need.

Just my two bobs

If I understand you correctly, and you want to trade from an account in Thailand, then MichaelSong has been given the same information that I was by the Bangkok Bank.

Yes, that is correct and sorry I didnt include that information in my original post.

It would be with/from a Thai Bank account, although if there was a broker I could certaintly transfer the money there, as long as it was in Thailand. Maybe I will try and open an account over seas and tranfer money there. Thanks for the replies.