Reasonableman

Deleted.

After reading through these 50 posts. It seems to me this the Thai authorities reported theory achieved what they wanted. A majority of these posts accept the these girls died by accidental overdose of deet. In my opinion, even though tragic, makes everybody feel better about what the cause of these deaths. Basically it puts the blame on an activity that many youth do in Thailand, and even though these girls did not do this intentional, and was an accident. (BS)

To me this stinks more of a cover up than before. What about all the other mysterious, unexplained deaths in Chaing Mai? The Canadian sisters deaths where of identical symptoms of these other deaths.

Or did all the people in Chaing Mai die of this cocktail? I suppose it possible an elderly couple in their 70's was out on the town ripping ass and got ahold of one of these deadly cocktails. But not likely.

The final Canadian autopsy report has not yet been released, has it? Perhaps we are all hoping for closure, but it is still too soon. Afaik, this news report only relates to the Bangkok autopsy. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I was thinking the same thing.

Whilst we are all (or nearly all) very concerned about this, we need to wait for the Canadian autopsy results.

I'm suprised at how long its taking though.

They did say somewhere it could take months.

After reading through these 50 posts. It seems to me this the Thai authorities reported theory achieved what they wanted. A majority of these posts accept the these girls died by accidental overdose of deet. In my opinion, even though tragic, makes everybody feel better about what the cause of these deaths. Basically it puts the blame on an activity that many youth do in Thailand, and even though these girls did not do this intentional, and was an accident. (BS)

To me this stinks more of a cover up than before. What about all the other mysterious, unexplained deaths in Chaing Mai? The Canadian sisters deaths where of identical symptoms of these other deaths.

Or did all the people in Chaing Mai die of this cocktail? I suppose it possible an elderly couple in their 70's was out on the town ripping ass and got ahold of one of these deadly cocktails. But not likely.

The final Canadian autopsy report has not yet been released, has it? Perhaps we are all hoping for closure, but it is still too soon. Afaik, this news report only relates to the Bangkok autopsy. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

sorry, are you talking to me this time or someone else?

It's an open discussion, isn't it? Hence called a "Forum". Personal communications should best be made by PM, afaik.

or quoting.

so i take it you weren't talking to me in that post... again.

Is this diversion still on topic? If you'd like to contribute more of your forensic eminence to identifying armed and unarmed persons, please go ahead. Where were we... Knives, machetes, etc... Oh yes...

sorry, are you talking to me this time or someone else?

It's an open discussion, isn't it? Hence called a "Forum". Personal communications should best be made by PM, afaik.

er no, it was because it was the post directly after mine... and you didn't quote anyone...

silly me, how could i think such a thing... and when you were discussing the exact same thing i was talking about, and saying things like "You embarrass yourself"

who were you talking to then?

you've hit a low point on this attempt to cop out of it...

oh btw, i'm not talking to you reasonableman, i'm referring to someone back on page 2.

Yeah, posting can be a real slow process in some parts of the country. Darned delays. Oh well, the cross we must bear to get our message out...

All a bit theoretical after the event, isn't it... Can, could... rather than did. Good to know for next time, anyway.

How do you show forensically the lack of machetes, knives, sticks, bamboo stakes, grenades, etc., which are also offensive weapons?

In some other countries, the parents, who are adults considered eventually responsible for the actions of their children (while minors), would be held legally responsible to some degree. Does that apply to Thailand, as well? What degree of responsibility is expected of parents in such circumstances as these?

The retarded apologist argument of the man (safely) faraway, that eyewitnesses who lived through these events are somehow struck braindead, have no access to the media, and somehow lost their critical faculties by being present. Total BS. You embarrass yourself by even trying that lame old spin once again. Boring, transparent, and dishonest.

Really, 'retarded apologist' that would also be applicable to those on the forum who have previously tried to ridicule the eyewitness accounts of Nick Nostitz as being biased....yes?

The supposition that absentees are de facto privileged to greater objectivity or knowledge is some BS put forward by absentees to discredit eyewitnesses. "Bias" or "perspective" can certainly exist, whether one was/is present or absent, and for whatever purposes and motivations; but that is another issue.

http://news.ca.msn.c...drinking-deet-1

"According to the report, 20-year-old Audrey and Noémi Bélanger, 25, had DEET in their bodies that they had ingested.

Though the chemical is a potentially neurotoxic mosquito repellent, it is used as an ingredient in a euphoria-inducing cocktail that is popular among youth in Thailand. The drink containts cough syrup, Coke, DEET and ground up kratom leaves, which are a mild narcotic indigenous to Thailand."

We were all wrong.

Sad to hear the cause.

A terrible way to go.

It is thought that an overdose of DEET was accidentally mixed into the young women's drinks.

It is suggested that the mix with DEET was deliberate, not accidental, and that consumption of this concoction was relatively common in the area. So far there seems to be no suggestion the overdose was deliberate.

Most of what can be done is done. There is plenty of data in the public domain on the reinforcement of the flood defenses if anxious disbelievers want to assess the information. The Billions of Baht assigned for the work have been used judiciously

:-) and real improvements are being achieved.

A community-service announcement brought to you by.........

Oh, that'd be you then.

DDPM: Flash floods to hit most of Thailand on Sep 2-5

BANGKOK, 31 August 2012 (NNT) - The Department of Disaster Prevention and Mitigation (DDPM) has issued a warning for residents in the North, Northeast, East and central region to brace for flash floods, forest runoffs and heavy rain during September 2-5.

Sounds like that precious Chainat water may not be needed after all.

BANGKOK, AUG 31 – Thailand is moving ahead with an ambition to become a world medical centre within the next five years,..

And I've heard this for at least the last five years.

Echoes of 2005...

If you want to read the whole page, go ahead, that's what the link is for. However, these excerpts seemed most apt to the current Thai situation. I'm sure you'll agree, being the objective observer you are.

48.4 Baht each. Same as one street lunch... with a soda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism

• Daniele Albertazzi and Duncan McDonnell define populism as an ideology that "pits a virtuous and homogeneous people against a set of elites and dangerous ‘others’ who are together depicted as depriving (or attempting to deprive) the sovereign people of their rights, values, prosperity, identity, and voice". Albertazzi, Daniele and Duncan McDonnell, 2008, Twenty-First Century Populism: The Spectre of Western European Democracy, New York and London: Palgrave Macmillan, p.3.
  

• It is believed by some that populist movements can be precursors for, or building blocks for, fascist movements. Conspiracist scapegoating employed by various populist movements can create "a seedbed for fascism."
  

• Populism in Latin American countries has both an economic and an ideological edge. Populism in Latin America has mostly addressed the problem, not of capitalist economic development as such but its inclusiveness, in the backdrop of highly unequal societies in which people are divided between a relative few wealthy groups and masses of poor, even in the case of societies such as Argentina, where strong and educated middle classes are a significant segment of the population. Therefore the key role of the State in Latin American populism, as an institution mediating between traditional elites and the "people" in general. In appealing to the masses of poor people prior to gaining power, populists may promise widely-demanded food, housing, employment, basic social services, and income redistribution. Once in political power, they may not always be financially or politically able to fulfill all these promises. However, they are very often successful in providing many broad and basic services.
  

Get over it ... esp. the melodrama. It's not at all unusual for some countries to have multi-teir fees for parks, museums, etc. In fact, my home state of Oregon sets cheaper entrance fees to state parks for Oregon residents.

Can you distinguish them by their skin color?

Your assertions may all be true and correct, for all I know.

For all you know ...

Before starting any argument and pointing the finger at other posters, the minimum you should do is educate yourself about the subject at hand.

A lot of knowledgeable people have been put off this forum because of people like you. You start an argument, you accuse other posters of bias, but, on your own acknowledgement, you have no knowledge about the subject.

Please, before coming back, first educate yourself. That would make for a far more interesting discussion. In the meantime, you're just trolling.

So you have no evidence or proof, just conspiracy theory. Thanks for the confirmation.

Thanks. It is indeed an interesting opinion piece in the "paper-that-cannot-be named". Like your original post, it would be improved by some specific evidence to back up the broad allegations, and some answers to the questions posed. What hard evidence is there of this purported "grand & devious plan" or is the evidence purely circumstantial?

1. The Forest department is doing nothing to address the threat denounced by the WWF

I have no evidence to support or refute the accusation that the Forest Department is sitting on its hands re the dam. Do you? What do you think the Department should be doing?

2. There is no love lost between Damrong and international green organizations, the support he gets is purely local and misinformed at best.

That is your opinion, and you have so far produced no evidence to support it.

3. Running resorts, logging and mining are the industries the forest department plan to develop inside the national parks in order to finance them. This point has already been discussed in a previous thread in this forum. And I expressed my surprise to see these industries associated with national parks.

Please provide hard evidence, a link, something tangible that supports/substantiates your opinions and the allegation.

4. Damrong's master plan is to pave the way for powerful state corporation to take control of the nation's forests. That he says nothing against the dam mentioned in the OP is further proof of that point and also makes my post perfectly on-topic.

The on-topic nature of your post is based on your own speculation, still without evidence. Please provide hard evidence, link, something tangible that supports/substantiates your opinion and the allegation. As we have seen elsewhere, there is no limit to what may be speculated in an information-free environment.

This is a complex issue and what holds for one area of rubber plantations (Trang's Ratsada district, in the Khao Bantad mountain region, referred to in the article) may be quite different from another area of encroachment into established agricultural buffer zones and parks/reserves. It appears that we are in agreement that logging, mining, and dams have no place in national parks (?). Regarding resorts being constructed in buffer zones or within the parks themselves, we may disagree.

Your assertions may all be true and correct, for all I know. I am not an apologist for Mr Damrong. Unfortunately for you, your known conflict of interest regarding encroachment on parks and reserves means your opinions and allegations regarding the people you oppose for other reasons must be taken with a large grain of salt in the current topic. If you can substantiate them, that would make for a far more interesting discussion.

Fascinating, never heard that before...

Government responsiveness to concerns expressed by many? Oh frabjous day!

Perhaps the 2-tiered pricing system might also be a topic for discussion. Even at the Grand Palace/Wat Phra Kaew, Thai-farang family members are separated into different entry gates to exact different fees (work permit, tabien baan, residency permit notwithstanding).

What is the forest department doing ? Damrong makes a lot of noise when kicking out poor farmers and forest dwellers from their home but what he is really doing behind his smoke screen is clearing the scene for the large state corporations. It has already been discussed in this forum, the objectives of the officials of the national parks is the financing of the national parks (and their officials !!!!) through running resorts, logging and mining. You have read correctly, logging and mining. Is it something you want to see in a national park ?

Have you noticed that when Damrong was questioned for his action, the only NGOs, the only "grassroot" support he received was from organizations ran by his former classmates ? The big international organization abstained from any comment. And when a respected organization like the WWF warned about the consequences of a major project in a National Park, where is Mr Damrong ?. Fortunately at last the press is waking up, there is a very courageous editorial today in the source that can not be named. Just lets hope people will finally open their eyes and realize for who the the forest department is really working for.

Damrong is not the topic of this thread. Agreed that dams, resorts, logging and mining inside national parks are anathematic. However, you should really declare your interest in benefiting from encroachment on restricted agricultural land and park lands before you make such alarming (possibly libelous) claims against Damrong, and at least attempt to substantiate them if you want them to be taken seriously.

Sorry but my post are substantiated not yours. Yours it's just a personal attack.

You contribute to nothing but the bad feeling that everybody complains about. If you have a point, make it. But attacking other posters on regular basis like you do is not making a point, it's just trolling.

Your attacking Damrong without evidence is an ongoing personal vendetta, and also off topic here. Suggest you desist with the mudslinging or produce some hard evidence.