leemac

I think he was saying that he has everything he could want, and he is not missing anything from back home, so while you may be a bit jaded over the bar and street girls you have spent time with, he is happy with a nice and beautiful girl that (assumingly) doesn't have pole dancing experience.

I have to agree in some respect though. I was very disappointed when I visited the tourist areas, and found that every girl from the cutie I met at kick-boxing to the hairdresser in the mall to the 7-11 cashier was willing to put out only if I paid for it. I wont lie- I expected to do the naughty bachelor thing, but my main goal was a bit of genuine romance and to prove to myself that I could come here and find a nice girl, start a business, have a good life and be happy. I left thinking I could at best come back to do some business, and maybe be a bachelor hiring temporary girlfriends until I die.

I had a great time there, for sure. But the Farangs before me have earned such a lovely reputation, I think the chances are pretty dam_n slim that I'll meet the woman of my dreams there. They've kind of been trained to see us as ATMs, an escape route, a golden ticket out of poverty.

kerryk seems to have found one of the elusive good ones that he can count on. They do exist, chrisandsu, but you wont find them in a girly bar or a night club. Which is why I have vowed to avoid those places on my next visit. I don't like the alcohol any more, and I don't want just a temporary partner. I'm past that phase of my life.

perfectly right response Kerry, very impressed by it i think you caught what i was trying to say im all for everyone living there fantasy but at some point reality sets in with a big bang

Not only Thai women. I would never take an expat back to Farang land. I am rich and handsome here.

I have not figured out the difference between reality and fantasy. I am now getting ready to go out to my fantasy restaurant which sells fantasy English food, served by fantasy waitresses in unbelievably short fantasy skirts that come off in a fantastically short period of time to provide a fantasy dessert.

I have to be home by 6 because my fantasy GF gets off work and joins me for a fantasy evening of watching fantasy movies on TV. We then go to bed and I am probably not really sleeping or whatever but I don't feel tired.

Sure I think Thai women are the best looking in the world but I am sure it is just my fantasy.

I think he was saying that he has everything he could want, and he is not missing anything from back home, so while you may be a bit jaded over the bar and street girls you have spent time with, he is happy with a nice and beautiful girl that (assumingly) doesn't have pole dancing experience.

I have to agree in some respect though. I was very disappointed when I visited the tourist areas, and found that every girl from the cutie I met at kick-boxing to the hairdresser in the mall to the 7-11 cashier was willing to put out only if I paid for it. I wont lie- I expected to do the naughty bachelor thing, but my main goal was a bit of genuine romance and to prove to myself that I could come here and find a nice girl, start a business, have a good life and be happy. I left thinking I could at best come back to do some business, and maybe be a bachelor hiring temporary girlfriends until I die.

I had a great time there, for sure. But the Farangs before me have earned such a lovely reputation, I think the chances are pretty dam_n slim that I'll meet the woman of my dreams there. They've kind of been trained to see us as ATMs, an escape route, a golden ticket out of poverty.

kerryk seems to have found one of the elusive good ones that he can count on. They do exist, chrisandsu, but you wont find them in a girly bar or a night club. Which is why I have vowed to avoid those places on my next visit. I don't like the alcohol any more, and I don't want just a temporary partner. I'm past that phase of my life.

perfectly right response Kerry, very impressed by it i think you caught what i was trying to say im all for everyone living there fantasy but at some point reality sets in with a big bang

Not only Thai women. I would never take an expat back to Farang land. I am rich and handsome here.

I have not figured out the difference between reality and fantasy. I am now getting ready to go out to my fantasy restaurant which sells fantasy English food, served by fantasy waitresses in unbelievably short fantasy skirts that come off in a fantastically short period of time to provide a fantasy dessert.

I have to be home by 6 because my fantasy GF gets off work and joins me for a fantasy evening of watching fantasy movies on TV. We then go to bed and I am probably not really sleeping or whatever but I don't feel tired.

Sure I think Thai women are the best looking in the world but I am sure it is just my fantasy.

Actually the age of consent in Thailand is 15, so the charges relating to underage sex at 18 surely cant apply ??

I would recommend that you rely on that mis-information. You need to read up on what is the practical age of consent.

Additionally, while I am not sure on New Zealand, citizens from many countries are liable based on their own nation's age of consent, not the age of consent in the country in which the sex took place.

But we don't even know how old the Thais were.

NZ is 16.

-quote-:

Ms Walker said an undercover officer was assigned to approach the accused after an airport search in December 2009 found a thumb drive with photos of the accused with his arm around "teenage-looking males" and a card including Thai phrases of how to ask for specific sexual acts."

-unquote-

Jesus... I must have hundreds of pictures with my arm around "teenage - looking" girls..... And if they also find some naughty phrases scribbled by just those "teenage - looking" girls, that is enough to have a special agent on my heels who tries at all costs, using all means to prove that I am a criminal pedophile??

I'm on my knees, thank God, I'm not a NZ citizen!!!

Gotta agree. I don't see him doing anything clearly illegal. Dodgy, borderline, but did he arrange a sex tour with underage children or give "pickup" advice to a customer looking to buy a travel package to a well known "red-light" nation?

I don't see any actual laws being broken by the guy getting done here. In fact, they could have used him to set-up actual pedos by booking them tours and giving details to the police.

I can't find the EDIT option, so replying to my own post is the next best option:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10763013

Looks like he was guilty, giving tips on picking up boys and offering to help him do it. Lock him up in Thailand, I reckon. NZ is too soft for this type of person.

-quote-:

Ms Walker said an undercover officer was assigned to approach the accused after an airport search in December 2009 found a thumb drive with photos of the accused with his arm around "teenage-looking males" and a card including Thai phrases of how to ask for specific sexual acts."

-unquote-

Jesus... I must have hundreds of pictures with my arm around "teenage - looking" girls..... And if they also find some naughty phrases scribbled by just those "teenage - looking" girls, that is enough to have a special agent on my heels who tries at all costs, using all means to prove that I am a criminal pedophile??

I'm on my knees, thank God, I'm not a NZ citizen!!!

Gotta agree. I don't see him doing anything clearly illegal. Dodgy, borderline, but did he arrange a sex tour with underage children or give "pickup" advice to a customer looking to buy a travel package to a well known "red-light" nation?

I don't see any actual laws being broken by the guy getting done here. In fact, they could have used him to set-up actual pedos by booking them tours and giving details to the police.

I understand selling porn is illegal in Thailand, but is filming or webcam streaming of yourself naked or performing sexual acts illegal? And if they aren't selling it in Thailand but are streaming it overseas and receiving payment from that country- not for individual items of pornography, but for the service of performing the acts, is that different?

I mean, it's not selling it within Thailand, or distributing it locally. It's like if making a drug was legal but selling it was illegal, so you make it and sell it somewhere that it IS legal, does that count? Do they have a separate law to cover sales that occur overseas?

Genuinely curious, not defending them, just wanting to understand the laws being used here.

Sounds to me like another one who had never ridden a jet ski. Thailand is not the place to jump on one for the first time.

I've seen this with hired motorcycles in Bali and Thailand. If you're not a competent rider at home, why the hell would you hire and (attempt to) ride one where the only rule is "There are no rules"??? Beats me.

The IQ of the average punter is barely into double figures!

I agree... as a biker back home, getting to Thailand and negotiating the roads filled with tourists who're learning to ride a scooter was an interesting experience...

One of them saw me doing donuts on a sandy patch of road (showing off to a mate) and decided to impress his girlfriend.

The bike goes down, his leg gets a nasty scrape, and no doubt a hefty bill for the services of their mechanic.

In saying that, the only major accident I saw there was a young Thai couple on a scooter who got nailed by a Thai car driver... can't blame it all on ignorant naive tourists

I feel sorry for the tourist, but when you go to a poor nation and rent expensive equipment, you can't expect to write it off and not pay for it.

The cost of replacement means a chunk of her annual salary. For him, it's his livelihood.

I know a lot of those guys run scams, but look at it- she hit another jet-ski, then crashed it into rocks at high speed.

The insurance policy is obviously crap, but this is Thailand- not California. Paperwork is more a formality than a guarantee, and anyone going to a poor nation should know their "rights" don't mean a thing to people who live on about a tenth of the average US/UK salary (pulled that number out of my hole, probably way off ).

As expected most of the complaints are from women who don't like the competition of young nubile breasts.

What is funniest is you can go to most gogo bars and see the lot, no problems. Perhaps this is the problem, the professionals hate the amateurs offering the same for free.

I think the problem is that other people don't want that sort of thing in public. I'm the kind of guy you're likely to find in the red-light area of town, simply because I love the excitement and danger, the party life and sometimes the girls. But I would be a bit surprised if a place like Thailand, with a (let's face it) reputation for its red-light industry, allowed that side of things to infringe upon the family friendly tourist spots, such as beaches, hotel pools, parks and shopping districts, shopping malls etc... I mean really. What's the difference between being naked at the beach or at a park? They're both outdoor recreational areas frequented by people of all ages, races, and cultures.

Once you allow girls to go topless at the beach in Thailand, the next step is night-life girls using the beach for some $ on the side. The beach turns into a daylight red-light district, tourism takes a dive and the place gets a bad rep. Some idiots will do things on the beach they should do in the privacy of their own home, and it all turns to custard.

I'm no prude, but I don't fancy seeing kids playing in a place where working girls are looking for clients, posing sexy, and flashing their wares not for a tan but as bait for men willing to pay. In Thailand, it's a very different scenario to Saint-Tropez in France.

What's with everyone saying the girls didn't consent?

He said they would not be available in Thailand. He put them on a US site, that (supposedly) can only be accessed from a proxy server.

Who in their right mind uses a proxy server to access porn overseas when it is so freely available, anyone can get it free with a few clicks? It is reasonable to assume nobody would waste their time using a slow a$$ proxy when they can get it FREE without one elsewhere.

And the pirate DVDs they are using in the story- who pirated them??? Can't they see the hypocrisy of this article???

Poor country girls being taken advantage of by rich playboy! Oh my! The shame of it!

The truth is that a sex tourist (not saying it's wrong, just saying what it is) has an agreement with local women to have sex for money (illegal on BOTH sides) to film it for pornography (illegal on BOTH sides yet again) and distribute it overseas only (which he is doing and is NOT illegal).

Both parties are guilty, and Thailand's piracy problem is the root cause of these girls finding their videos on Sukhumvit Road.

Who gets painted as the bad guy for Thailand's piracy? The original creator of the content!!!!

This whole article is a joke.

EDIT: spelling and added a sentence or two for clarity

Leemac: Exact, correct, and to the point!

To add, when most westerners think of the word pedophile or the term "old man sleeping with a minor," it conjures up the image of a dirty old man in a raincoat kidnapping the vestal virgin off a playground and raping her whereupon she will endure mental disorders ad infinitum. For this offense, I believe in the full extent of the law.

Typically in Thailand the "victim" is a 14-yr-old who was raped by a family member at 8 and has been pimped out ever since. After six years of rodeo experience she now has a police handler, pimp mother, and katoey marketing staff. Any punter (farang) who falls into that web is throughly fleeced whereas the girl is already on to the next punter. I believe that for a crime you need a real victim who has suffered a loss. She is already happily riding her next bronco and smiling at the cash she will make for something she does for free. Should the farang get a stiff sentence for sleeping with a prostitute? Your call.

One reason you will not see this happen in a western country is the police handler and mother would immediately be arrested and the girl put in a juvenile home for soliciting.

We are trying to warn all you farangs out there that you have a big target on your back with an ATM in the center. If you don't believe it or are not worried than please ignore the comments above and I wish you the best of luck.

If he WAS doing a 14yo, he de4finitely deserves to be locked up for it- but it doesn't seem that the guilt lies only with him, and the only evidence they've cited is the word of the mother.

That's not justice.

They stated there were illegal dealings with the mother- I think it's pretty clear, but again, without proper details we can't really judge, and without proper evidence and all parties being held accountable for their actions or their roles in this, this is not a fair or just case.

Once again I see the same pattern that I've seen over and over for a year now.

Step 1: News post claiming he's guilty and making him out to be a demon- protocols not followed, the whole case is based on hearsay, and possession of condoms and Viagra are used to cement the impression that he's a deviant old pervo.

Take a look at yourself- how many of you have condoms in your belongings or property? I'm too young for viagra, but if condoms in my bedroom make me guilty, then I guess someone better lock me up! I have a lot worse than that - Handcuffs, bondage rope, hundreds of gigs of porn, porn mags, a gimp mask, a blow-up sheep (a gift! I swear!), not to mention home porn pics and vids.

Step 2: Thai Visa forum members jump on the white-knight bandwagon of calling him out as a criminal, congratulating the system that proved his evil ways and took him off the streets.

Step 3: Guy disappears forever.

Tell me- what actually happened here?

I'll tell you what we know based on the first page- The guy was involved in "illegal dealings" with the mother- no details on any charges being laid there- but I can bet it was either that she was whoring out her little girl or herself, and when the money stopped flowing or wouldn't flow faster, the BIB got called in as her heavies.

Anyway, unless there are charges laid for those "illegal dealings", what evidence is there that this guy is guilty? What's to say she didn't make it all up? Should any man who buys the services of a mother's affection have to consider the risk that she'll claim he raped her child? Just so that she can extort compensation or blackmail money?

If he had illegal dealings with the mother, why is she not being charged for her involvement? A plea bargain for turning him in?

I think the whole thing sounds like a kangaroo court affair. He got stitched up- guilty or not, there's a lot being swept under the carpet here, and it could happen to any of you. Guilty or not.

The mother was obviously involved- and in my opinion, anyone who pimps out their kids (I bet that's what really happened) is as guilty or more-so than the people they're pimping them to. It's like drugs- who's more guilty, the buyer or the seller? In this case it wasn't selling drugs, she was selling her own little girl then bribing him to keep her mouth shut- I can almost guarantee it. But as usual, she'll get off scott-free and he'll rot in prison.

I think the message here is clear- if you must pay for it, stick to the young ones who aren't past their prime and desperate for money, are over the legal age by at least a few years, and don't have any dependants. Take them from establishments that are well known so they wont be willing to take risks with underage girls.

I hope I haven't broken any/many rules here.

This had to happen. It probably a good thing. You'll "hopefully" see performance of voip, web mail, etc.. improve. Torrents are drain especially since most peers exists outside of TOT, if you look at an average torrent drainer using a steady 1mbit the economics just dont make sense. I cant even buy full transit routes on 1000mbit commits for < 550baht/mbit (or anywhere near that). So hopefully TOT stop, separate, or traffic shape them.

Ideally I'd like to see torrent drainer pay a massive premium. Part ignorance for most windoze users as the systray hides the little U, but wow imagine how fast the internet would be in Thailand without torrent drainers.

Ends rant.

END USER DAY 1- "I want mega speed on torrents 24/7 for the lowest price possible!"

END USER DAY 2- "WHY IS MY SPEED SO SLOW!!! YOUTUBE WONT LOAD!!!"

END USER DAY 3- "WHY ARE YOU TRAFFIC SHAPING MEEEEE!!!!"

END USER DAY 4- "YOU GUYS SUX I'M LEAVING I HATE YOU!!!"

Changes provider

END USER DAY 5- "MY LAST PROVIDER WAS BETTER!!!"

This sort of thing has been the way we humans have been treating each other since the dawn of our species.

While I personally disagree with it, very strongly, it is not my country, and not my right to criticise how they handle it.

A lot of people are saying that losing your internet connection is a poor defence. It is.

But think about when you lose your internet connection and how it makes you react. It shouldn't upset you as much as it does, should it?

Just go to a f_kcing 24 hour internet cafe and then you dont need to kill someone- what a sick world

I have dealt with many thousands of people who have internet problems (for a job), and while most of them would never dream of harming a person over something so trivial, when it happens to them, they change in ways you wouldn't believe possible.

I've had people break down in tears several times, call me a "fuc_king asshol_e, (insert my name here and repeat 5-10 times over one minute)", smash their computers, put holes in the wall, set their dogs on techs who came out to fix faulty wiring, belt their kids or partners, call the cops on us, turn up at the door of the office threatening us, multiple threats to go to the media or to sue us, and many many other things you just wouldn't believe a rational human being to be capable of.

People get the sum of the world's information and entertainment at their fingertips almost instantly, and they become addicted to it.

What happens when you withhold something addictive? Violent withdrawals.

I'm not saying what this guy did was right, but I can certainly believe it. You take a person who's had a string of bad luck and high stress, liquor him up, take away his addictive source of instant gratification and add another stressful failure to his life, and it's easy to see how he could snap. Everyone has a breaking point. This seems to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

I'm just glad they got him off the streets and I feel very sorry for his victim, her family, and his own family who will have to live with this in their family history.

EDIT: wow I should have read all three pages of posts before replying. It looks like a lot of people have already said what I just did

But they are addicts. Junkies wanting the instant satisfaction of entertainment or information right here, right now, on the screen.

If they can get to an internet cafe, they can get to a 711 and buy the newspaper, or make a cellphone call, or go rent a DVD. They want it NOW and if they don't get it, the brain flips out, just like junkies do when they don't get their meth. The similarities are bloody scary. I think the internet aspect of this has been blown out of proportion though. He was in a room drunk, trained to be aggressive, and went into a rage. I don't think the internet was really a factor at this stage, except for maybe being another brink in the wall surrounding him.

What you said is spot on, except his excuse was that he wasnt rich enough to afford his internet connection anymore, which was his only way to make money..

As far as people asking if he killed people while in the army.. he sure did. That shit turns a lot of people into psychos

Ah yeah, that'll have more to do with it.

And as for the internet, he'll be seeing that like someone who uses a vehicle to drive long distances to work, or a farmer with his machines. It's a tool to do his job.

He was probably playing online poker. You'd be surprised how many people call up to their ISP complaining that they lost an online tournament due to a disconnect, demanding compensation of whatever the value of the pot was because "they were going to win for sure". Internet disconnects, and the ISPs know this, so they put in clauses and T&C's that broadband is supposed to do that- which is true.

Or people will say that they make things online and sell them, in video-games, and due to a single disconnection, they want to hold the ISP liable for three months of rent payments...

The internet makes people insane.

For this guy, he was apparently already on a downward spiral. His world was caving in around him and he felt like a cornered animal. He was drunk, stressed, angry and emotional. His head was screwed up from his military service, and violence was part of who he had become. He lashed out and took a life.

They should have let him keep his internet.

8>< NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

Well, if it's my last meal, I'm probably about to be executed, so I would choose to have a steak cut from the executee ahead of me- waste not want not etc...

At the end of the day, all humans have a bit of cannibalism in their history. Many other species do it. It's just meat. The logic behind eating cows and pigs, but not cats and dogs, eating lamb and chicken but not horse or human, it just doesn't make sense.

I'm not a spiritual person, but even if I was, there's still no spiritual basis for thinking of cannibalism as evil in most religions.

I suppose, like venison, it would be better hung for a while.

SC

Good point.

I heard once that in China, they force feed ducks alcohol, then slay and cook them with a high alcohol content. I'm sure many people would like to be heavily intoxicated before they go...

Hey, we're having drinks at mine tonight. My shout!

A lot of people are saying that losing your internet connection is a poor defence. It is.

But think about when you lose your internet connection and how it makes you react. It shouldn't upset you as much as it does, should it?

I have dealt with many thousands of people who have internet problems (for a job), and while most of them would never dream of harming a person over something so trivial, when it happens to them, they change in ways you wouldn't believe possible.

I've had people break down in tears several times, call me a "fuc_king asshol_e, (insert my name here and repeat 5-10 times over one minute)", smash their computers, put holes in the wall, set their dogs on techs who came out to fix faulty wiring, belt their kids or partners, call the cops on us, turn up at the door of the office threatening us, multiple threats to go to the media or to sue us, and many many other things you just wouldn't believe a rational human being to be capable of.

People get the sum of the world's information and entertainment at their fingertips almost instantly, and they become addicted to it.

What happens when you withhold something addictive? Violent withdrawals.

I'm not saying what this guy did was right, but I can certainly believe it. You take a person who's had a string of bad luck and high stress, liquor him up, take away his addictive source of instant gratification and add another stressful failure to his life, and it's easy to see how he could snap. Everyone has a breaking point. This seems to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

I'm just glad they got him off the streets and I feel very sorry for his victim, her family, and his own family who will have to live with this in their family history.

EDIT: wow I should have read all three pages of posts before replying. It looks like a lot of people have already said what I just did

Well this is a very strange one, but since I was a child, I always thought that out of all the creatures on the planet, the one that eats the most sugars and fats and variety of flavours and spices is the human race, so wouldn't it make sense that human meat would taste delicious? We aren't exactly wiry like dogs, we tend to have a lot of meat on our bones, we don't eat rubbish that pigs eat or eat, walk, sleep, or wallow in our own shit. We are clean and disease free in comparison. I think my last meal would have to be a human steak, with a side of gravy and roasted potatoes, or fries cooked with garlic oil and herbs, vegetables, white sauce, and (this may be a shock) an iced coke. Then, hand crafted donuts with hot chocolate dipping sauce and vanilla icecream for dessert with a hot coffee.

Just clarify for us all....are you posting from inside or outside a prison right now?

If not I fear it won't be long.....or is it hope it won't be long? Ach you get the picture anyway....

Well, if it's my last meal, I'm probably about to be executed, so I would choose to have a steak cut from the executee ahead of me- waste not want not etc...

At the end of the day, all humans have a bit of cannibalism in their history. Many other species do it. It's just meat. The logic behind eating cows and pigs, but not cats and dogs, eating lamb and chicken but not horse or human, it just doesn't make sense.

I'm not a spiritual person, but even if I was, there's still no spiritual basis for thinking of cannibalism as evil in most religions.

Hope mine is a Big Mac Attack.

I am with you on this one, or a whopper with cheese. Why, l can think of some great gastronomic delights but if l was about to expire then the etiquette of the table would be last on my list. Oh, and a pint or two of Real Ale.

I think I'd be bouncing off the walls screaming, spitting food and shouting with glee at anyone within spitting range.

They wouldn't forget that for a long time.

Well this is a very strange one, but since I was a child, I always thought that out of all the creatures on the planet, the one that eats the most sugars and fats and variety of flavours and spices is the human race, so wouldn't it make sense that human meat would taste delicious? We aren't exactly wiry like dogs, we tend to have a lot of meat on our bones, we don't eat rubbish that pigs eat or eat, walk, sleep, or wallow in our own shit. We are clean and disease free in comparison. I think my last meal would have to be a human steak, with a side of gravy and roasted potatoes, or fries cooked with garlic oil and herbs, vegetables, white sauce, and (this may be a shock) an iced coke. Then, hand crafted donuts with hot chocolate dipping sauce and vanilla icecream for dessert with a hot coffee.

Some of you lot need to get out more. Especially the ones who think women don't like porn, don't have orgasms and don't do casual flings. Jeez...

You didn't understand my point. Women don't do casual flings purely for the sex like a guy does. I have had casual flings with girls that I figured where too fat or not hot enough for me so I would not date them but just have sex with them. These girls really wanted a boyfriend and they figured if they had sex with me that they might be able to get some commitment. Did they enjoy the sex ? Probably.... was that all they really wanted ? no.

Maybe you just didn't realize it but the women you where sleeping around with didn't do it for the same reasons you did. They are not men.

I can see that your experiences have twisted your view on women to the point that you think they aren't capable of lust. This is both interesting and kind of sad. For your own sake, I hope you find a woman with a high sex drive who doesn't want to screw you in any way except in the sack. And I hope you recognise her for what she is and treat her well. Often, when we find someone really good, our past experiences have corrupted us so much that we don't know what we have found. By the time we realise that they are the right one, we've often lost them.

You probably wont find the woman who will give you eternal happiness in LOS. It's a place for temporary pleasures, instant gratification. The kind of soul satisfying woman that many men here are looking for is better found in other countries.

I haven't read all posts here, but I feel qualified to comment based on the couple of dozen I have read.

Before I do that, I'll point out that I'm not tall, not build like a body builder but slim to medium, and I consider myself above average in looks- not out of vanity or narcissism, just because I have eyes and and have done very well with the ladies in my younger years- better than almost any other guy I have met.

I have had a lot of sex without paying for it. The number or women is in the double figured dozens, I reckon. I just got lucky with looks and learned how, when, where, and who to get it from.

As a result, I became very knowledgeable and understanding of both men's and womens emotions, both with sex and with love.

There isn't that much difference really- both parties get horny and like to bang. Too much of it desensitises you and can corrupt your soul, too little can do the same, and a balanced amount is good for mind, body, and soul.

Marriage isn't prostitution. The people who say so are usually those who've been stung by nasty break-ups and have had to pay alimony/child support, so they are understandably bitter.

Marriage is for love. It used to be for convenience, but nowadays it's a love, commitment and devotion ceremony. Prostitution is a one off deal- one party needs cash, the other party wants sexual gratification, they trade- cash for a service. No love, commitment, or devotion is involved. Sure, it can cost, but so can being single and not having someone to entertain you cheaply, paying for sex, drinking more, and sharing accommodation, meals, chores etc that you otherwise might pay more for.

Most women can and do orgasm. In my entire sexual history, only a few women have never been able to orgasm at all. If most of yours aren't able to, either you're very unlucky or (more likely) not doing it right. then again, if you only do it with "working girls", they are so desensitised to sex that you're pushing shit uphill to try to get them off. I only succeeded with one bar girl at this, and only when she had a hangover (which made her mega-horny!).

Some women can get off in minutes, others only orgasm a handful of times in their life. It's like men- some last minutes, some (like me) take a while (usually 20-40 minutes, up to an hour or more sometimes), most are in the middle I think. Society says men should last longer, but trust me, getting told to stop before you're done is not fun. It's just like everyone saying women with big tits are better. They are good to look at, sometimes, but I prefer small, sensitive and firm/perky, to big, insensitive and floppy/squishy. Everyone's different and everyone has different tastes.

Now I didn't pay for sex until I was in my early 30's, but I did buy the odd girl a coffee, dinner, drinks etc to get it. They didn't usually try to "hold" me after one shag, unless they were really inexperienced or we had been dating for a long while beforehand (ie: more than 3-4 dates).

Some just wanted sex. At one stage when I was 21, I broke up with a Korean girl who wanted to marry for residency. She married an older Korean resident in my country, then came over at random hours demanding sex. It was always kinky, rough, dirty sex, and I LOVED it! Another time in my early 20's, maybe 3 years later, I was seeing three girls at once, on and off. One was engaged to a man overseas and wanted to have her affair in my country before settling into married life. Another was planning to get engaged and married soon, again to a man back home, and wanted to try out white guys first. The third was chasing someone who she loved, but he wasn't interested. She still had sexual desires though, and I got to fulfil them for her.

This alone shows us that women are NOT using sex "to get something", and they DO have sexual desires and CAN separate love and sex, thesame as men do.

We are different, but not as much as everyone seems to think.

You happened to grow up around a bunch of sluts so now you think you know more about this then anyone else ?

BTW allot of what you wrote goes against some basic biology which is what this is really about.

Sorry for the late reply- I was out getting laid with a young woman who wanted nothing more than a good time and some male company. You see, she's only here for two more months, so there's no fear of damaging her reputation, she has nothing to lose, so she is free to do what she wants. She's financially stable, but lonely, and just wants someone to hold and make love to. It's basic biology. Women love male company.

There seems to be a strong attitude of woman hating around this forum, which is to be expected. There are a lot of men here who have been stung by women, so the men here are generally either victims of bad women or men who feel inadequate for Western women. Then there are those who just can't resist the exotic allure of Asian women- I'm in this category.

I didn't happen to grow up around a bunch of sluts, and the fact that you would talk about women this way shows us which of the above groups you fall into. I'm sorry to hear that, life must have been cruel to you. Not all women are bad though. There will always be scheming, conniving, sneaky, cunning women who will twist and manipulate things to get their way with you. Just like there will always be men who are the same. Who rape women, molest children, bash both groups, lie, cheat, and steal. And on the flipside, there are good people out there.

Learning how to filter the bad ones out of your life and keep the good ones in is a valuable skill, that will see you live a life of happiness, surrounded by people you can trust and count on.

Be one of the good ones.

@ Payboy - Way to go stud - but Is It Wrong To Pay For Prostitution?

Paying for sex isn't evil, but remember that she is doing a job. Much like a masseuse, a hairdresser, a cook, a toilet cleaner, or a lawyer. Would you abuse someone in another job? Or make them do something disgusting against their will? Talk down to them or treat them like slaves, rather than paid service providers? Some guys do.

Then on the other hand, would you expect her to love you, introduce you to her family, know what your favourite song is or how to make your coffee in the morning? Would you expect to find love notes tucked into your lunch box with your favourite sandwich on your anniversary, or to have her hold your hand in silence beside you while you mourn the death of a relative? Some guys do this too.

Prostitution isn't love. It isn't a relationship and that should be obvious, but this simple fact seems to cause soooo much confusion and bitterness for the men on this board.

It's sex, and sex is a natural, basic, primal instinct. Paying for it is like paying for almost anything in this world. It's a service. Treat them with respect and don't get attached to them, and there's nothing wrong with it.

I haven't read all posts here, but I feel qualified to comment based on the couple of dozen I have read.

Before I do that, I'll point out that I'm not tall, not build like a body builder but slim to medium, and I consider myself above average in looks- not out of vanity or narcissism, just because I have eyes and and have done very well with the ladies in my younger years- better than almost any other guy I have met.

I have had a lot of sex without paying for it. The number or women is in the double figured dozens, I reckon. I just got lucky with looks and learned how, when, where, and who to get it from.

As a result, I became very knowledgeable and understanding of both men's and womens emotions, both with sex and with love.

There isn't that much difference really- both parties get horny and like to bang. Too much of it desensitises you and can corrupt your soul, too little can do the same, and a balanced amount is good for mind, body, and soul.

Marriage isn't prostitution. The people who say so are usually those who've been stung by nasty break-ups and have had to pay alimony/child support, so they are understandably bitter.

Marriage is for love. It used to be for convenience, but nowadays it's a love, commitment and devotion ceremony. Prostitution is a one off deal- one party needs cash, the other party wants sexual gratification, they trade- cash for a service. No love, commitment, or devotion is involved. Sure, it can cost, but so can being single and not having someone to entertain you cheaply, paying for sex, drinking more, and sharing accommodation, meals, chores etc that you otherwise might pay more for.

Most women can and do orgasm. In my entire sexual history, only a few women have never been able to orgasm at all. If most of yours aren't able to, either you're very unlucky or (more likely) not doing it right. then again, if you only do it with "working girls", they are so desensitised to sex that you're pushing shit uphill to try to get them off. I only succeeded with one bar girl at this, and only when she had a hangover (which made her mega-horny!).

Some women can get off in minutes, others only orgasm a handful of times in their life. It's like men- some last minutes, some (like me) take a while (usually 20-40 minutes, up to an hour or more sometimes), most are in the middle I think. Society says men should last longer, but trust me, getting told to stop before you're done is not fun. It's just like everyone saying women with big tits are better. They are good to look at, sometimes, but I prefer small, sensitive and firm/perky, to big, insensitive and floppy/squishy. Everyone's different and everyone has different tastes.

Now I didn't pay for sex until I was in my early 30's, but I did buy the odd girl a coffee, dinner, drinks etc to get it. They didn't usually try to "hold" me after one shag, unless they were really inexperienced or we had been dating for a long while beforehand (ie: more than 3-4 dates).

Some just wanted sex. At one stage when I was 21, I broke up with a Korean girl who wanted to marry for residency. She married an older Korean resident in my country, then came over at random hours demanding sex. It was always kinky, rough, dirty sex, and I LOVED it! Another time in my early 20's, maybe 3 years later, I was seeing three girls at once, on and off. One was engaged to a man overseas and wanted to have her affair in my country before settling into married life. Another was planning to get engaged and married soon, again to a man back home, and wanted to try out white guys first. The third was chasing someone who she loved, but he wasn't interested. She still had sexual desires though, and I got to fulfil them for her.

This alone shows us that women are NOT using sex "to get something", and they DO have sexual desires and CAN separate love and sex, thesame as men do.

We are different, but not as much as everyone seems to think.

hel_l guys (and girls)...

I was in BKK and Koh Samui for a month. I spent quite a lot, but only once did I go as high as 2500-3000 on drinks and girls.

Included: karaoke room, a couple of plates of food, 5 girls for entertainment, I think 3 bottles of Johnnie Walker Red and soft drinks, a few packs of ciggies, and some pool beforehand. Total- 8300baht between 3 guys.

We had the room for several hours, stayed until a while after the closing time due to one of the guys being friends with the girls. One of the girls wasn't charged because one of our other girls jammed her finger in a door, so she just came to hang out because she was in pain and couldn't get home until closing time.

Most nights, I would have a long-neck or a small bottle at the hotel with tourists or at a food place with dinner.

Then I went to some regular 'party' bars and had 2-4 more, bought 2-3 for girls. Then hit a proper night-club where it's around 100-150 baht a beer and have a few there. All in all, I'd have around 6-10 beers a night and spend under 1000baht most of the time.

Obviously, I'd tip bit here and there, but I wasn't one of those silly farangs who tries to show superiority and generosity by tipping half the price of a drink every time.

I'd buy a drink or two, and if service was good, tip maybe 20-30 baht and get a couple more. If service sucked, nothing. If they were really good, friendly and talkative when I was bored and lonely or gave me some useful advice, playful or very polite and not greedy acting, I might tip 50 baht or buy them a drink when I leave.

I thought this was normal, but some tourists I see will argue the price of a beer then tip more than that... or order expensive drinks and demand good service while being rude and tip very little.