plus7

2 minutes ago, BarraMarra said:

A question to our members. Some appeasers on here are questioning holding talks to end the War between Ukrainian Forces and Russian Forces. My question is Would you sit around and talk to a liar? or who you know cannot be trusted?.

I think you actually mean me. So I dare to reply: my presence is this topic was caused by YOUR direct question to me.

If you call me a liar, pls explain where I lied.

Just now, placeholder said:

At worst, how such violence is encouraged.

Thank you for your agreement. It is important to me.

It is not encouraged by russians. Russians encorage being brave, being smart tactican....
However, I think some battle ground commanders who are lacking authority or afraid of revenge may "close eyes" on those crimes. Like on any other war.

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

How about this report from the UN's Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine?

 

UN Commission has found an array of war crimes, violations of human rights and international humanitarian law have been committed in Ukraine

Thank you for your reply.

I found the full report where they described several sex crimes. It is indeed terrifying. Those who did this must be prosecuted. Like with every case elsewhere.

But I deny mass character and its genocidal nature. It is done by single criminals.

7 minutes ago, tgw said:

Putin has built up an Ideology, it also got a symbol: "Z"

You overestimate Putin's role in it and its importance. Ideology is at least a book. Z is just a symbol of the war, but not the ideology. Symbolism.

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Well, that's one way to avoid responding to the fact that an independent UN team of investigators found plenty of evidence of mass torture and murder of civilians.

I admit cases of tortures, accidental and criminal death of civilians (like robbery, extorting money) not only from russian soldiers. But I deny its mass , organized character and especially its genocidal nature.

Besides, it is the war, a sign of torture could be a wound.

Imagine a simple case: soldiers captured an enemy soldier, surely he will be tied. Then a shell explodes and kill them all. One of corpses will have tied hands, wounds. If slightly blur vision,  it can be called a victim of a torture.

Finally, if they found evidences, let them continue with the investigation and find the suspected.

8 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Deliberately targeting civilian infastructure, power plants, water etc is a war crime. Look it up. Russia is doing that right now as we are posting. Losing on the battle field so go for the terrorist approach. 

I will not justify and "explain" recent strikes. My "long read" was not about it. Maybe I can agree with Blinken (from your recent post) on that.

Candide, thank you for your measured reply. I see nothing in your post that I could object to.

7 minutes ago, tgw said:

>>do you have examples of me doing propaganda?

When you depicting something such emotionally adjectives as "fascist". When you declare something "war crimes" when something may not be a crime, this is propaganda too. You're one of top posters in this group!

When you presented a list of countries and intentionally inflated with non-existing, repeating items, it so it looks bigger.

7 minutes ago, tgw said:

wow, you offer to "shut up" in order to not hurt my feelings ... err... why couldn't Russia simply stop the war in order to stop hurting people for real ?

So you are against the war ... you do realize that if Russia stops fighting and withdraws within its internationally recognized borders, the war stops, right ?

I offer _myself_  to shut up because I'm not going to argue with ukrainians. In front of them, a particular war incidents will not be justifiable, and simply because of humanitarian reasons.

I don't know the answer to everything (about how to stop the war)  but I know that negotiations is the first step to it.

50 minutes ago, tgw said:

I will stop there because your post is just pro-Russia propaganda drivel trying to portray Russia as the victim. good luck with that. seems a new wave of trolls were commissioned in Olgino...

I was asked (in another topic, but moderator asked to continue here) how could I explain that and that.

I think you're disappointed and biased because I draw a realistic picture where one could hardly find something special comparing to another wars.

You and your friends igniting hate and doing the propaganda.

I would understand if you (your wife, relatives) were a Ukrainian. If so, I will simply shut up, because I can understand your personal grief and hate. In this case reading my "explanation" will hurt your filing anyway and I simply don't want this.

As I said, I'm against the war, peace to Ukraine and to Russia. I'm against portraying Russia as the _single_ origin of the evil. No objections, if you say "Russia and other imperialistic countries ..."

By the way, your list of wars is so long because there are doubles. Tajikistan is not related, East Prigorod - something not existing. Chechnya and Dagestan is north Caucasus and part of Russia.

In Sirya, the russian army was invited by the president (as it was invited to Georgia in 19 century to avoid genocide from Turkey).

2 hours ago, BarraMarra said:

Can you explain to us Plus7 why Russia is using Iranian Drones to target Civilian buildings and kill the Occupants, and damage Infrastructure, who killed Civilians and hastily put them in mass graves some with their hands tied behind their backs, deliberately firing missiles into shopping centers these are atrocities being committed by Russian forces or do you not see this?

First of all, I'm not justifying civilian deaths on the war. I will explain it from general prospective, assuming that you (and others) know that wars periodically happen.

Russia using Iranian drones because it doesn't have enough its own. Its military doctrine (published) was defensive. It means they thought "if we not going to attack anyone why would we need drones? Being attacked, we could just nuke the enemy". That's why somewhat lacks modern warfare.

Unlike US which is doing small wars periodically and needs exact, precise weapon.

Russian army attacks civilians buildings (not civilians) because buildings are often reorganized as military objects, weapon storage, garages, barracks. Attacking such structures is not a war crime as you may find from "Geneva conventions".  Ukraine not always specially doing this masking. Its just because there is no other place for soldiers or weapon. Finally, Ukraine may always show a scary picture to mass media.

About this shopping center that was stroke several months ago (the one with empty parking), I personally checked on Google map, it was just next door to railway station. Besides, Google maps labeled the object as "permanently closed" about year ago. I assume it was a storage or the goal was railway station. Probably, you know that Dresden (Germany) was bombed flat by west allies at the end of the war because it was a transport hub? Was there a need for such atrocity or not, too late to judge, but destroying transportation and energetic system of the enemy is necessary and common step on a war.

Other reasons of civilian building destruction may include: Old, not precise weapon hits wrong target, intelligence reported wrong object, the missile was intercepted and just fell down.

I'm sure, the military would love to have the precision of HIMARS or that blade-rocket that killed single Al-qaeda terrorist chef somewhere recently.

But they have to fight with the weapon the have.

I already explained mass graving. Those are, probably civilians and soldiers killed during city fights. In summer russian army advanced and took every city several days with much efforts. Cities were yet with civilians. I watch youtube, and there are many bloggers from Ukrainian cities who blogs their life under shelling. Unbelievable, to us, but they say we're not going to evacuate. Because our parents old, because I love my house, because I love my animals (cats, cows), my house will be looted. They are not evacuating because they are not afraid of russians per se, and they just hope to avoid accidental strike.

Of course, with such attitude there will be accidental deaths among civilians.

The army simply engrave bodies (including russian soldiers) all to save time and efforts.

Not too much respect to dead ? Yes, sad, but reality. Russia is lacking respect to live too ????

But even the engraving with christian crosses and separate graves, and name plates were called a genocide.

How can I explain tied hands ? Well, different circumstances.. Finally I don't exclude criminal deaths. The war is the place for all kinds of bad people. Such bodies, when found,  will be also buried. By my understanding nobody will bother with untying of the dead.

Please let me know if my reply was comprehensive, I'd like to get a feedback from you.

Hi

First of all, this procedure should be assigned by the doctor if there is such necessity.

This procedure and your question looks very much like self-healing. You should avoid it.

40 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Yes I knew and fail to see what the US has to do with Thailand decision to abstain on the annexations

Fail, okay, let me help.

Ontopic: Thailland should act on its own interest.

You expressed doubts, with laugh, in authenticity. I don't know where you're from, if from US, go to read how Texas was joined (they have museum in Austin). Very much the same like DNR and LNR.

What I'm trying to say, is that historical deads, may look ugly, sometimes funny, unbelievable, but with years it become history.

Very much the same like if you take a nice girl and try to explore her with a microscope.

5 minutes ago, bradiston said:

But I think it is. The Ukraine army is struggling to repel ...

Bradiston, I can agree with all your post, especially with the right of people to defend, they are brave, and so on.  I can't only agree with "solely to blame".

You may not know, but when Zelensky wasn't yet elected, he actively criticized current president for not doing anything to stop the war. He spoke russian language that time and russian population was his main auditory. And he said exactly, literally this: "if it will be required, I will go to Putin and beg him on knees to stop the war".

It was several years ago...

11 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

That said if you find Amnesty a credible source then I'm very pleased, take note of just some of their other reports on the atrocities carried out by Russian forces on civilians

 

I'm sorry, what exactly is the "atrocity of Russian forces". English isn't my native. I assume the atrocity "of Russian forces" must have mass character.

Mass shooting of civilians, for example, mass executions, rapes.

But if an enemy hid in civilian building, it will be shot. This is tragedy, catastrophe, tears, sorrow for civilians, hard to see,  whatever, but not the atrocity.

Ukraine intentionally didn't evacuate people to use it as a shield.

I admit there were single crimes made by russian soldiers and they must be prosecuted.

I also admit some rockets could hit civilian buildings accidentally or when just fall down intercepted.

In this topic they said russian soldiers were given viagra ... o my god. Anyone believes it ? They were not given even warm ammunition!

3 minutes ago, bradiston said:

But ultimately, aren't you just playing devil's advocate? I mean, would you go and fight in Putin's army? Seriously?

Stop. It is not about me. And not about Amnesty International and not about you. Don't change the topic.

It is about "russians attacking schools".

Could you please confirm if you got the answer on your concerns?

Hi,

There is a temple in Chochangsao with hundreds of them.

Free to visit.

Flying fox babies may sit on your hands.

Hi,

I think this is the fan in power supply. Check simply order new fan on Lazada or buy in Tukkom. It is very easy to replace. You just need a screwdriver.

15 minutes ago, gsohman said:

Historically Switzerland has been the world haven as a politically natural and has hence been available to opposing sides in any conflict as an impartially and unbiased country to which peaceful ideas and solutions can safely be negotiated and agreed.

For many years, historically, Switzerland was known for its warriors mercenaries. Wiki said its zenith was reached in 15-16 century. When technical progress in warfare made single man negligible, the stopped this practice. Peaceful, they are only last 150 years. But I still remember ... ????

I've seen those in NY.

Skating until the first hole, flying 3 meters, go back and continue skating.

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You agree with it after you are faced with evidence, before that you claim something else.

The rest of your post is off topic unless you ....

Excuse me, but a good half of your posts is offtopic too, to be exact. This topic is called "Thailand believes condemnation will reduce chances of resolving conflict in Ukraine".

I don't want to waste your time (to  search proofs), but I didn't claimed anything contradictory. Not sure what you mean by "bringing support", "other countries", huh ? Unlike your posts, my posts are replies to your(and others) one-sided offtopical posts. I don't call your messages "propagandistic", because you're not a propagandist, but a kind guy, maybe with Ukrainian wife (now or on the past), without actual historical background on the situation. You do it from the heart naively.

Ontopic: I agree with Thailand's position on the situation, it should decide and act on its own interests and it is not cowardness.

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Oh please, 2014:

 Russia took advantage of them to launch ...

As for the rest of your thoughts, you provide just that, thoughts and no evidence, I stick to facts and opinions based on those. Feel free to ask me any opinions based on those and I'll gladly respond.

Yes, yes, I agree with all from the above until you give assessment of what is happening one-sidedly.

West supports one separatists (Chechnya, Kosovo for example) and doesn't like another ones depending on their own interest in the region.

But I admit this too as this is the part of history and nothing really changed since 100 years ago.

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Your video by the way shows nothing of the situation back in 2014 aside from what the reporter said, filmed and witnessed which was the Ukraine military going to engage "terrorists" but were blocked by a group of civilians so stopped & no that's nothing like 24th Feb in Kyiv.

True, true, this is because those "terrorists" were not really a terrorists, but civilians (supported by Russia). Thank you for taking it in quotes.

I also admit that Russia would also suppress its own separatists.

I don't think US developed a weapon right there, but gathered information, maybe made experiments. Which itself is a part of US biological weapon project. Just like covid virus in Wuhan. I don't have enough competence to make conclusion about birds with plague or something. May be it is also possible.

What I'm trying to say that you and others present a difficult situation in such "simple" and "obvious" ways, like Putin is evil, Russia is the only aggressor, nobody needs protection from Kiev and so on.

I see it as a part of history where everything repeating, where each party (yes, each) has own truth.

You may have noticed my recently activity, but I feel like I need to object to utterly pro-Ukraian posts and remind to public that things are not obvious, something happened in the history of your home countries and so on.

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

What if you can't afford a computer?

If you can't afford a computer,  there must be someone who grants you a computer if you study well or show some skills.

Used computers or cheapest new ones are suitable for studying.

Also there are logic games for phones/tablets that develop mathematical and IT thinking.

The government or a social fund should organize extra lessons of English and IT in school.

I'm sure, if it will move forward, with some initial success, local businessmen will provide computers. The government should organize teachers/visas + salary.

I admit, my understanding could be overly optimistic on financial/organizational level, but kids will certainly appreciate it. The country will benefit later.

11 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

All I see are the Ukraine military not hurting civilians and nothing to do with the bio labs points I took up with the poster. Maybe you can share a video of the mutant Ukraine soldiers or the pathogen infected birds ready to fly over the borders to Russia?

Your opponent in this topic mentioned referendum and you laughed at him as he said something freaky.

Here I gave you (it was hard to find) some proof that referendum had some reasons in ground. At least it is not something to laugh at.

Those solders aren't doing anything because it is yet 2014 and there are no special squads. Besides, there is a cameramen from UK. What do you expect?

In February, russian soldiers behave the same in Kiev direction. Locals tried to stop them with bare hands without any consequences.

About bio labs: I wonder why you laugh too. There are videos where US representative confirms they were a part of pentagon project or something like this. Please save my time, and search it yourself if you're interested.

12 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Yea the bio labs, freaky stuff, ...

Here you can see how it was before the war in 2014. People in Ukraine blocks ukranian (!) tanks and want separation after the coup.