EU states see Britain failing to meet Brexit divorce terms

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

"However it is still not too late as the Brexit vote was never legally binding. The Government, if it had the balls to do it, could still ignore the voting and stay in the EU for the benifit of the country." 

Don't you think the 27 EU countries would have something to say if UK wishes to stay at EU?

 

I would assume UK could stay, but all the extra benefits UK has had over the years, would be stripped away with a new deal. 

 

UK joined the EU when UK was much more powerful country it is today.  Now UK's negotiation powers are not that great anymore.

 

[CG1 Blue]

16 minutes ago, ResandePohm said:

The EU is not trying to punish the Brits. They are negotiating for the benefit of all their member nations

Ignoring your pointless "Little Britain" comment, I have an answer to this. How about giving the UK a good trade deal to maintain the same level of prosperity for all member nations?

I suspect the EU are willing to cut their nose off to spite their face.

[CG1 Blue]

23 minutes ago, ResandePohm said:

Britain has gained enormously financially by being in the EU and taking advantage of the single market.

And no doubt the EU has gained enormously financially too.  So let's just part as friends.

But no, the EU want a $100bn divorce payment. Some friend...

[ResandePohm]

Just now, oilinki said:

Don't you think the 27 EU countries would have something to say if UK wishes to stay at EU?

 

I would assume UK could stay, but all the extra benefits UK has had over the years, would be stripped away with a new deal. 

 

UK joined the EU when UK was much more powerful country it is today.  Now UK's negotiation powers are not that great anymore.

 

The UK does not need a new deal. The old deal is still the current deal and cannot be changed without the UKs agreement. All Britain has to do is to withdraw its application to leave. Then nothing changes.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Ignoring your pointless "Little Britain" comment, I have an answer to this. How about giving the UK a good trade deal to maintain the same level of prosperity for all member nations?

I suspect the EU are willing to cut their nose off to spite their face.

How difficult is it to understand that EU's side will do the best to make the deal to be beneficial for EU's side. You are on the other side, trying to do the best deal possible for the UK.

 

Like I mentioned before, UK is not a pampered child, which should receive any special treatment, because the child is 'special'. 

EU and UK will eventually make a deal. Nothing special about that. Then we'll be over it and continue our separate ways.

[CG1 Blue]

9 minutes ago, oilinki said:

UK joined the EU when UK was much more powerful country it is today.  Now UK's negotiation powers are not that great anymore.

I'm sorry, but you really need to do some proper research before joining these debates. For a start, the UK didn't 'join' the EU.  We joined the common market.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, ResandePohm said:

The UK does not need a new deal. The old deal is still the current deal and cannot be changed without the UKs agreement. All Britain has to do is to withdraw its application to leave. Then nothing changes.

AFAIK Once the Brexit letter was delivered, Brexit became an irreversible entity. Unless, of course, the EU would allow UK to stay in EU, which is probably not going to happen anymore. 

 

But then again, everything is possible, if there is enough will (and vodka).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-brexit-is-irreversible-and-it-is-wishful-thinking-to-hope-for-u-turn-a7108801.html

[ResandePohm]

3 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Ignoring your pointless "Little Britain" comment, I have an answer to this. How about giving the UK a good trade deal to maintain the same level of prosperity for all member nations?

I suspect the EU are willing to cut their nose off to spite their face.

It is quite simple. If Britain wants a good trade deal then then they will  have to give sometrhing in return. This is what is called negotiating. Because of its strength and size and huge economy the EU has the upper hand and is negotiating from a position of strength. Britain wants to leave so why should they care about Britain. The EU is not a charity

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I'm sorry, but you really need to do some proper research before joining these debates. For a start, the UK didn't 'join' the EU.  We joined the common market.

Call the union as you wish. So, do you agree that UK's global influence has diminished since then?

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Call the union as you wish. So, do you agree that UK's global influence has diminished since then?

 

 

It it was the EEC......simples.... 9 like minded, equal-ish countries.

 

 

 

Nothing like the EU

[baansgr]

Just now, ResandePohm said:

It is quite simple. If Britain wants a good trade deal then then they will  have to give sometrhing in return. This is what is called negotiating. Because of its strength and size and huge economy the EU has the upper hand and is negotiating from a position of strength. Britain wants to leave so why should they care about Britain. The EU is not a charity

Yes and the flipside is if the EU wants a good trade deal. I know many already that are renewing their BMW s, Mercedes and Renaults in favour of Toyota, si th EU can go whistle, who really cares about trade deals with them. Recruiting agencies also already targeting more suitable candidates outside of the EU. 

[moon0205]

Having followed this very polarized discussion I wonder why Brexit fans talk again about EU "punishing" Britain. The moneys due are the result of obligations all EU members signed - including Britain. These obligations are binding for the EU budget over several more years and concern estimated 50 billion Euro. Remember: the British are part of that deal. Does the Brexiters' favourite pink press never mention this? 

 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

It it was the EEC......simples.... 9 like minded, equal-ish countries.

Nothing like the EU

It was 1993 when EEC became EU. 24 years ago. Why didn't Brexit happen at that time? There are parents who have lived their whole life within EU. 

 

.. And then there are the soon to be gone grand-grand-parents, who thought that life was so great when polio was still among us and voted for Brexit.

 

It's funny that younger generations don't want to have anything to do with the old geezers who still dream of the days when they were still in their youth. Naturally these old geezers think that it was the time of their life, which is true.

 

Today is the time of the life of the younger generations, which the elderly folks often forget by being selfish and thinking only about themselves. Not an generation to get advices of the future.

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Guest

[CG1 Blue]

29 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Call the union as you wish. So, do you agree that UK's global influence has diminished since then?

But ResandePohm and others say the UK has benefited massively from being in the EU. Have we benefitted massively, or has our global influence diminished? 

If it's the latter, can you understand why we want to leave?

[CG1 Blue]

35 minutes ago, ResandePohm said:

It is quite simple. If Britain wants a good trade deal then then they will  have to give sometrhing in return. This is what is called negotiating. Because of its strength and size and huge economy the EU has the upper hand and is negotiating from a position of strength. Britain wants to leave so why should they care about Britain. The EU is not a charity

Some argue the EU is all about world peace and harmony. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

But ResandePohm and others say the UK has benefited massively from being in the EU. Have we benefitted massively, or has our global influence diminished? 

If it's the latter, can you understand why we want to leave?

You failed to answer my simple question. Please try again.

 

And yes, UK has benefited significantly by being a member of EU. 

 

Wait no more. EU will take away UK's mighty banking sector as it does no longer belong to the EU economy. We'll take away your car manufacturing jobs as well and bring those jobs back to EU.

 

Because, why not?

 

Strong UK is not a problem for EU. But if UK is a competitor and wishes to gain benefits from EU, well.. we are not in the business of supporting monetarily well off outside countries like UK. Why should we be?

[CG1 Blue]

33 minutes ago, moon0205 said:

Having followed this very polarized discussion I wonder why Brexit fans talk again about EU "punishing" Britain. The moneys due are the result of obligations all EU members signed - including Britain. These obligations are binding for the EU budget over several more years and concern estimated 50 billion Euro. Remember: the British are part of that deal. Does the Brexiters' favourite pink press never mention this? 

 

The current EU budget runs until 2020. I believe the UK have already agreed to honour commitments to that budget, and we should also receive the associated benefits for that period. That does not equate to a payment of 50 billion Euros. 

 

[ResandePohm]

Just now, CG1 Blue said:

But ResandePohm and others say the UK has benefited massively from being in the EU. Have we benefitted massively, or has our global influence diminished? 

If it's the latter, can you understand why we want to leave?

Unfortunately CG you right. Britains influence has diminished with the demise of the Empire. Nothing to do with the EU. If Britain had been smart and not fought against the EU so much but went after reform and improvement within the EU then Britain could well be in the position that Germany now is in. We could be a leader within EU steering policies etc in the same way Germany now does. I believe we really missed a great oportunity to still be Great and a world leader with the whole strength of the EU.

[ResandePohm]

4 minutes ago, oilinki said:

You failed to answer my simple question. Please try again.

 

And yes, UK has benefited significantly by being a member of EU. 

 

Wait no more. EU will take away UK's mighty banking sector as it does no longer belong to the EU economy. We'll take away your car manufacturing jobs as well and bring those jobs back to EU.

 

Because, why not?

 

Strong UK is not a problem for EU. But if UK is a competitor and wishes to gain benefits from EU, well.. we are not in the business of supporting monetarily well off outside countries like UK. Why should we be?

Oilinki, I fear you are right but I hope you are wrong, otherwise all us Brits will be getting very depressed. Give me another Koskenkorva.

Edited November 9, 2017 by ResandePohm

[CG1 Blue]

9 minutes ago, oilinki said:

You failed to answer my simple question. Please try again.

 

And yes, UK has benefited significantly by being a member of EU. 

 

Wait no more. EU will take away UK's mighty banking sector as it does no longer belong to the EU economy. We'll take away your car manufacturing jobs as well and bring those jobs back to EU.

 

Because, why not?

 

Strong UK is not a problem for EU. But if UK is a competitor and wishes to gain benefits from EU, well.. we are not in the business of supporting monetarily well off outside countries like UK. Why should we be?

You sound like a child playing with toy soldiers.  I'm not really into that kind of debating. I'll leave you to it

[CG1 Blue]

8 minutes ago, ResandePohm said:

Unfortunately CG you right. Britains influence has diminished with the demise of the Empire. Nothing to do with the EU. If Britain had been smart and not fought against the EU so much but went after reform and improvement within the EU then Britain could well be in the position that Germany now is in. We could be a leader within EU steering policies etc in the same way Germany now does. I believe we really missed a great oportunity to still be Great and a world leader with the whole strength of the EU.

You could be right.  I don't think the UK ever really got into the whole EU thing. We've always loved Europe, but at the same time wanted to remain totally independent. Well, the majority of us anyway.

[Guest]

Just now, ResandePohm said:

Oilinki, I fear you are right but I hope you are wrong, otherwise all us Brits will be getting very depressed. Give me another Kaskenkorva.

Almost there! Koskenkorva :) The ear of the rapids as direct translation goes.

 

I'd rather see UK to be a member of developing EU, rather than UK leaving our common interest.

 

However I do dislike the Brexiters so much, I enjoy biting their way of logic with reality checks. 

 

[puck2]

It disappoints me very much that a lot of contributions to the Brexit debate is dominated by Britain's loss of money and sovereignty. Thatcher's „I want my money back“ comes to my mind. Imagine, all EU members – and especially the paying members - would be dominated by the same idea.

 

Since WW II and China's Deng Xiaping's reform the world has changed 'a little bit'. Britain, France. Germany, Spain, The Netherlands etc. are dwarfs as single states against the USA, (Russia?) and the new world power China. Wouldn't it be useful to have a mighty bloc as an equivalent instead of stubborn single states? The EU as block has a quality and strength as equivalent to the new world powers, as single powers they are a laughing stock, a pawn in the hands of the powerful.

 

It's an historic wisdom that unions force some states to swallow bitter pills as an equivalent to a better future. Even if you believe in the bible, the world hasn't been made within one day. Look at the history of the USA. So give the union (EU) a chance to eliminate the flaws, although losing some sovereignty. It's worthwhile.

 

BTW, Brexit was only the result of the majority of the voters, not the people! Sometimes – and especially in this case – it's better to have a parliament to vote about such a difficult decision. Why? The members of the parliament in general are a little bit more intelligent than the voting sheep. You don't believe it? Make a referendum: Do you want a 50% tax cut? The majority of the voting sheep will answer YES.

 

That's what happened in Britain; brain and sanity down, temporarily influenced emotion high. All this is now reflected in the Brexit negotiations. And the EU should reward this? Brexiteers, think about what England would do, if Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland would like to leave GB - after a positive referendum. Shaking their hands and open the wallet? I don't believe.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

Its already a low pay country with wage supression due to over 3 million EU Immigrants. Unfortunately its not a low rent country due to the same mass immigration creating a housung shortage thus increasing rent and property prices. They certainly should section for self harm, anyone that wishes this nonsense to continue and ruin the future for generations to come.  Within the next few years UK will prosper in every way. 

What utter codswallop! Why are other EU countries so much nicer, so egalitarian so civilised. You're blaming the wrong target for the undoubted UK ills.

 

Low rent was meant figuratively ( crap if you like) not literally!!

Edited November 9, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

Don't you think the 27 EU countries would have something to say if UK wishes to stay at EU?

 

I would assume UK could stay, but all the extra benefits UK has had over the years, would be stripped away with a new deal. 

 

UK joined the EU when UK was much more powerful country it is today.  Now UK's negotiation powers are not that great anymore.

 

UK could remain no problem

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

You sound like a child playing with toy soldiers.  I'm not really into that kind of debating. I'll leave you to it

I think it's quite the opposite. My elected representatives don't act like buch of 1st graders when they are talking about new laws to my country. Quite the opposite of your lower house, which is a child care center. And of course your higher power - The people who have not much more to show than that they were born to a right family. 

How in the dwell do you think anyone should take UK politicians seriously?

Much more importantly, why do you allow yourselves to be lead by bunch of self entitled morons? Don't you see, that there could be a better way to live as an citizen?

Don't you respect yourself enough to get over of the idea of 'there are some people who are better than me, because their parents'? What's the deal with that?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

AFAIK Once the Brexit letter was delivered, Brexit became an irreversible entity. Unless, of course, the EU would allow UK to stay in EU, which is probably not going to happen anymore. 

 

But then again, everything is possible, if there is enough will (and vodka).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-brexit-is-irreversible-and-it-is-wishful-thinking-to-hope-for-u-turn-a7108801.html

No, incorrect

[ResandePohm]

Just now, Grouse said:

What utter codswallop! Why are other EU countries so much nicer, so egalitarian so civilised. You're blaming the wrong target for the undoubted UK ills.

 

2 minutes ago, puck2 said:

It disappoints me very much that a lot of contributions to the Brexit debate is dominated by Britain's loss of money and sovereignty. Thatcher's „I want my money back“ comes to my mind. Imagine, all EU members – and especially the paying members - would be dominated by the same idea.

 

Since WW II and China's Deng Xiaping's reform the world has changed 'a little bit'. Britain, France. Germany, Spain, The Netherlands etc. are dwarfs as single states against the USA, (Russia?) and the new world power China. Wouldn't it be useful to have a mighty bloc as an equivalent instead of stubborn single states? The EU as block has a quality and strength as equivalent to the new world powers, as single powers they are a laughing stock, a pawn in the hands of the powerful.

 

It's an historic wisdom that unions force some states to swallow bitter pills as an equivalent to a better future. Even if you believe in the bible, the world hasn't been made within one day. Look at the history of the USA. So give the union (EU) a chance to eliminate the flaws, although losing some sovereignty. It's worthwhile.

 

BTW, Brexit was only the result of the majority of the voters, not the people! Sometimes – and especially in this case – it's better to have a parliament to vote about such a difficult decision. Why? The members of the parliament in general are a little bit more intelligent than the voting sheep. You don't believe it? Make a referendum: Do you want a 50% tax cut? The majority of the voting sheep will answer YES.

 

That's what happened in Britain; brain and sanity down, temporarily influenced emotion high. All this is now reflected in the Brexit negotiations. And the EU should reward this? Brexiteers, think about what England would do, if Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland would like to leave GB - after a positive referendum. Shaking their hands and open the wallet? I don't believe.

Puck you are so correct. The Brexiteers never analysed their position or the consequences of their vote.Their vote was purely emotional. "We don't want Brussels telling us what to do", "No more foreigners" they said without a thought about if they were refugees or economic migrants.

 

You are right that it was not a majority vote. Only 37% of the population voted for Brexit.

 

I fear the breakup of the UK is yet to come. Scotland will be eager to leave as soon as the exit is completed. Then followed by NI who will want to keep their trade as is with Eire. This will destroy the UK as it is today.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

No, incorrect

So, you say it's only up to any specific country to stay within EU, after they have started the 2 year exit process already?

 

The EU and all the member countries does not have a say against the country gone rogue?

[Grouse]

41 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

But ResandePohm and others say the UK has benefited massively from being in the EU. Have we benefitted massively, or has our global influence diminished? 

If it's the latter, can you understand why we want to leave?

The UK has benefitted massively from being a member of the EU. Too many to list here. Global leverage has also increased.