State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[sriracha john]

They are COMPLETELY bypassing Samak now....

Senate Speaker mediating with Army Chief, anti-govt protesters

BANGKOK, Sept 5 (TNA) -- Senate Speaker Prasopsuk Boondej on Friday began talks with Thailand's powerful Army Chief General Anupong Paochinda and core leaders of the anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) to explore ways to end the current political turmoil which has impacted Thailand for months.

No wonder they didn't include Samak on the invitation list...

PM: No negotiations with PAD

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej affirms that he will not negotiate with the People's Alliance for Democracy nor will he allow the current political crisis to pressure him into resigning.

Samak believes that conducting a public referendum is the best solution to current conflicts, with the referendum draft being approved by the Senate today (September 5). The Prime Minister says the referendum will show what the majority of citizens wishes of the government.

Samak said that the Opposition party's concerns that ongoing political conflicts will lead to an all-out war were unwarranted because Thai people loved their nation, and will not escalate the situation. He adds that police and military units have so far refrained from using lethal force, therefore violence will not erupt.

Samak reveals that a meeting will be conducted within the next 1 to 2 days to determine how long the Emergency Decree will remain in effect. He affirms that the decree will be implemented for only a short time, while adding that he has had no conflict with the Army Commander in Chief over how to manage demonstrators.

The Prime Minister adds that he disagreed with proposals by the Opposition party, the House of Representatives, and the Senate to send a mediator to negotiate with the People's Alliance for Democracy, as so far the PAD has shown no willingness to negotiate. *it's ok, they went ahead without you, Samak*

- ThaiNews / today

[h90]

Further confirmation of the approaching Apocalypse...

Rain, hail bombarding PAD

Hail ?

Isn't that a bit unusual for Thailand, even in the winter season ?

we had that in bangkok, removing all the signs on the streets, all the lighting, damage all the wires etc.

And broke a whole in my roof...I almost need the diving gear so much water came in my room....

All the Bangkok people I asked told me that they never saw it before.

It was around 1 year ago.

[h90]

Samak has the emergency degree

Samak brought all the government and military power in his hands

(in my opinion dictatorship and a small coup)

Samak seeks an audience with HM the King on Wednesday

What does he want to do? Monday or Tuesday?

Something evil is planed I think and the Dictator of Thailand is Samak...

[sjaak327]

As long as Sondhi is not in jail, I do not see how the war with Cambodia can be avoided.

He'll mastermind the crowds, lead crusade on the border. As Tej resigned there is no professional diplomats in gvt. Sondhi will create the condition of the war, Cambodia will reply to the provocations and Thai army will storm the neighbor country.

Only one solution : enforce the law, Sondhi got arrest warrants against him. His place is in jail.

Any war with Cambodia can easily be avoided, and I'm hoping that Sondhi would not want to go to war with Cambodia over the temple. That ridiculous act of the PAD a while back, had almost everyone laughing, The temple has been awarded to Cambodia more then 40 years ago, so it's a little bit late to doubt that decision now. The 4,5m2 disputed land is of no consequence. Due to the actions of the PAD, and the withdrawal of the Thai government, the Cambodians are now looking to build and finance better access to the temple (on the Cambodian side) and will probably close the Thai entrace for a long time. So much for both countries reaping the benefits of the temple's listing.

If Thailand would want to go to war over this, surely the international community would support Cambodia. They are legally in their rights.

[scyriacus]

What is fascinating is that the average Bangkok Thai is dealing with corruption every time he turns around- every time he walks on a broken sidewalk that was only installed two years ago (built in obsolescence)- when he buys his kid a drivers license- or obtains better grades for his children- when he secures a job with the police and when he pays off a cop- he's faced with corruption every time he walks past endless stalls selling fake goods- computer programs- DVDs- when he is 'advised' by a revenue consultant as to how to dodge paying full tax- when he has to deal with customs- ask Thais about corruption in the country- in practically every domain of public life- including the Sangha- And what makes me very sad- is that every Thai middle class PAD supporter- and in fact many farangs- that I have talked to- are convinced that the PAD fight is about corrutpion and that if won, will hail the end of corruption. And I just wish that were the case. But of course it won't make any diffrence- not really- still, in the mind of many of the PAD, I do believe that they think that if Thaksin and his legacy can be erased- somehow the corruption will end. I don't get it. Yet I suppose a sociologist with something to say about collective behavior, about skapegoats- about utopian thinking- might be able to shed some light.

with a bleeding heart i admit to your pessimistic/realistic dim views. but there is always hope & patience! what would you suggest as a better alternative to pad? nothing? what sociologist?? who would listen to him? the pad seems to be - sadly enough - thailands only chance ปัจจุบัน

[sriracha john]

Thailand could lose 70 Billion Baht in tourism revenue if unrest drags on

BANGKOK, Sept 5 (TNA) - Thailand could lose as high as 70 Billion Baht in tourism revenue from foreign visitors if political unrest in the country continues into the fourth quarter of 2008, according to a report issued by Kasikorn Research Center.

The report said violent demonstrations had already eroded safety confidence among foreign tourists wishing to travel to Thailand and there are signs that Thailand could lose about 35 Billion Baht from foreign tourists spending if the political turmoil could end this month.

If the unrest continues until the last quarter of 2008, the country is expected to lose tourism revenue from foreigners travelling to Thailand not less than 70 Billion Baht, it said.

Of the total projected losing revenue, about 20 Billion Baht would come from hotels and resorts, 18 Billion Baht from souvenirs, jewelery and handicrafts, and 32 Billion Baht from food and entertainment, it said.

The kingdom earns about 600 Billion Baht annually from foreign tourists spending while staying in the country.

[blaze]

What is fascinating is that the average Bangkok Thai is dealing with corruption every time he turns around- every time he walks on a broken sidewalk that was only installed two years ago (built in obsolescence)- when he buys his kid a drivers license- or obtains better grades for his children- when he secures a job with the police and when he pays off a cop- he's faced with corruption every time he walks past endless stalls selling fake goods- computer programs- DVDs- when he is 'advised' by a revenue consultant as to how to dodge paying full tax- when he has to deal with customs- ask Thais about corruption in the country- in practically every domain of public life- including the Sangha- And what makes me very sad- is that every Thai middle class PAD supporter- and in fact many farangs- that I have talked to- are convinced that the PAD fight is about corrutpion and that if won, will hail the end of corruption. And I just wish that were the case. But of course it won't make any diffrence- not really- still, in the mind of many of the PAD, I do believe that they think that if Thaksin and his legacy can be erased- somehow the corruption will end. I don't get it. Yet I suppose a sociologist with something to say about collective behavior, about skapegoats- about utopian thinking- might be able to shed some light.

with a bleeding heart i admit to your pessimistic/realistic dim views. but there is always hope & patience! what would you suggest as a better alternative to pad? nothing? what sociologist?? who would listen to him? the pad seems to be - sadly enough - thailands only chance ปัจจุบัน

All too often people with ailments tend to fall prey to the first snake-oil charmer that rolls into town- only to find out that the cure was worse than the disease.

There are no magic bullets- beware those who would try to sell you one. Modern history is a grave yard of utopias- all because people bought the magic bullets.

Edited September 5, 2008 by blaze

[Moonrakers]

Further confirmation of the approaching Apocalypse...

Rain, hail bombarding PAD

Hail ?

Isn't that a bit unusual for Thailand, even in the winter season ?

we had that in bangkok, removing all the signs on the streets, all the lighting, damage all the wires etc.

And broke a whole in my roof...I almost need the diving gear so much water came in my room....

All the Bangkok people I asked told me that they never saw it before.

It was around 1 year ago.

I was surprised at this, never seen it in my 8 1/2 years of being here, a google search however tells me that it does happen, although rarely.

Anyways, to get back on track. Have there been any further developments on this:

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej has issued two more State of Emergency decrees which effectively transfer executive power solely into the hands of the premier, including the power to mobilize the armed forces.

It seems to have gone very quiet on that front, mis-reporting perhaps?

[LaoPo]

Your suggestions are VERY dangerous ! how can discussion ever be dangerous? more dangerous is no discusion at all!

1. banning people who sold votes means you have to ban people who accepted them too and that would be a large majority of the Thai people. That does not mean I agree with vote selling/buying. But you have to reform from within the system, not ban people.

banning the many poor uneducated vote sellers is useless. ban the about 500 wicked rich vote buyers and you are much better off.

2. Setting MINIMUM education standards for voting rights is plain right DISCRIMINATION Sir ! It's the same as discriminating more than 3 Billion people in Asia and seal their mouths because they didn't have proper eduction, for whatever reason...

"for whatever reason"....i can tell you the reason: big business, arms & weapons dealers and corrupt politicians.

3. And..WHO the heck is Sondhi .....agree 100%

1. My answers were not directed to a post from your hands but ala, I'll answer you anyway

2. You're a bad reader; a discussion is not dangerous...I said "the suggestions" were dangerous.

3. bad reading again regarding buying/selling votes.

4. bad reading again. I wrote: ".....and seal their mouths because they didn't have proper eduction, for whatever reason."..(that they were not able to HAVE/ENJOY education)

LaoPo

[paulfromphuket]

Thailand could lose 70 Billion Baht in tourism revenue if unrest drags on

BANGKOK, Sept 5 (TNA) - Thailand could lose as high as 70 Billion Baht in tourism revenue from foreign visitors if political unrest in the country continues into the fourth quarter of 2008, according to a report issued by Kasikorn Research Center.

The report said violent demonstrations had already eroded safety confidence among foreign tourists wishing to travel to Thailand and there are signs that Thailand could lose about 35 Billion Baht from foreign tourists spending if the political turmoil could end this month.

If the unrest continues until the last quarter of 2008, the country is expected to lose tourism revenue from foreigners travelling to Thailand not less than 70 Billion Baht, it said.

Of the total projected losing revenue, about 20 Billion Baht would come from hotels and resorts, 18 Billion Baht from souvenirs, jewelery and handicrafts, and 32 Billion Baht from food and entertainment, it said.

The kingdom earns about 600 Billion Baht annually from foreign tourists spending while staying in the country.

well according to the bus driver who said cancellations was at 80% earlier then thats 56 billion to be lost, umm guessing game.

[catmac]

Ghandi in action....http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/O...80902104646.jpg

you are perhaps rite 'catmac' it looks as if the man on the ground behaves like gandhi and the men around him behave like the brits around the world for many hundred years (and like in abu ghraib or guantanamo). well observed! did you make this photo youself? chapeau! you are very courageous.................

Well, Scyriacus, your incoherent ranting shows that you are a true Sondhi man. Try reading and understanding, then think, and only then put fingers on keyboard!

[paulfromphuket]

Thailand could lose 70 Billion Baht in tourism revenue if unrest drags on

BANGKOK, Sept 5 (TNA) - Thailand could lose as high as 70 Billion Baht in tourism revenue from foreign visitors if political unrest in the country continues into the fourth quarter of 2008, according to a report issued by Kasikorn Research Center.

The report said violent demonstrations had already eroded safety confidence among foreign tourists wishing to travel to Thailand and there are signs that Thailand could lose about 35 Billion Baht from foreign tourists spending if the political turmoil could end this month.

If the unrest continues until the last quarter of 2008, the country is expected to lose tourism revenue from foreigners travelling to Thailand not less than 70 Billion Baht, it said.

Of the total projected losing revenue, about 20 Billion Baht would come from hotels and resorts, 18 Billion Baht from souvenirs, jewelery and handicrafts, and 32 Billion Baht from food and entertainment, it said.

The kingdom earns about 600 Billion Baht annually from foreign tourists spending while staying in the country.

well according to the bus driver who said cancellations was at 80% earlier then thats 56 billion to be lost, umm guessing game.

whoops 560 billion sticky key board think the cat peed on it

[paulfromphuket]

heres an angle to consider

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=786

[Old Man River]

But OMR dont forget the village headmen will tell them that nasty Mr. Abhisit will cut all their manhoods off with a pair of shears if he gets to power and that we must all chant 6 doobries for 6 months a hundred times a day and rememeber it is only since that nasty Mr. Abhisist set the shadow cabinet up that the economy had failed and thirty baht health cards stopped working so well, and if Mr. Thaksin came back the price of rice would quadruple immediately and all those nice rice miller middlemen and money lenders who are all TRT MPs would not be forced by Mr. Abhisist to rip off every farmer and it is only a dreadful lie that Mr. Abhisit wants to let all rural kids compete education to first degree level fro free and we all know that Mr. Thaksin and Mr. Samak's little plan to stop all free rural education at M3 is the real way ahead because degrees dont grow rice and they dont teach you to wai your rural master properly and show respect to the local big name mafia family and after all that is what it is all about.........

So now now OMR dont go suggesting the rural poor dont make well informed decisions at elections. After all we all know they get lots of information.... on which to base their decisions

Hammered, I agree completely with your comments (now that I know what a doobrie is).

People upcountry are not stupid and in fact, like in all countries, some are very, very smart. In the west we know that people born from the poorest of families can be CEO's of the biggest companies if given the opportunity.

Below is a link to the recent article by Chang Noi. According to Chang Noi, the people upcountry have got smart and they have learned to use their votes too well, being consistent and rational with their votes (i.e. voting for Thaksin and his incarnates).

I think that Chang Noi has it wrong. He is confusing voting intelligence with the ability to vote intelligently. I agree with your comments that pressure is put on people in the northeast to vote a certain way, regardless of whether they are paid to or not paid to. In fact, it has nothing to do with payments, but rather safety for one's self and one's family. I am very surprised that Chang Noi has not addressed this.

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/09/...mocracy-is.html

Edited September 5, 2008 by Old Man River

[catmac]

Thailand could lose 70 Billion Baht in tourism revenue if unrest drags on

BANGKOK, Sept 5 (TNA) - Thailand could lose as high as 70 Billion Baht in tourism revenue from foreign visitors if political unrest in the country continues into the fourth quarter of 2008, according to a report issued by Kasikorn Research Center.

The report said violent demonstrations had already eroded safety confidence among foreign tourists wishing to travel to Thailand and there are signs that Thailand could lose about 35 Billion Baht from foreign tourists spending if the political turmoil could end this month.

If the unrest continues until the last quarter of 2008, the country is expected to lose tourism revenue from foreigners travelling to Thailand not less than 70 Billion Baht, it said.

Of the total projected losing revenue, about 20 Billion Baht would come from hotels and resorts, 18 Billion Baht from souvenirs, jewelery and handicrafts, and 32 Billion Baht from food and entertainment, it said.

The kingdom earns about 600 Billion Baht annually from foreign tourists spending while staying in the country.

well according to the bus driver who said cancellations was at 80% earlier then thats 56 billion to be lost, umm guessing game.

whoops 560 billion sticky key board think the cat peed on it

Honest, Paul. I never went near your keyboard!

Seriously, though, the economic fallout of all this stupidity will cost Thailand a fortune.

[h90]

Thailand could lose 70 Billion Baht in tourism revenue if unrest drags on

BANGKOK, Sept 5 (TNA) - Thailand could lose as high as 70 Billion Baht in tourism revenue from foreign visitors if political unrest in the country continues into the fourth quarter of 2008, according to a report issued by Kasikorn Research Center.

The report said violent demonstrations had already eroded safety confidence among foreign tourists wishing to travel to Thailand and there are signs that Thailand could lose about 35 Billion Baht from foreign tourists spending if the political turmoil could end this month.

If the unrest continues until the last quarter of 2008, the country is expected to lose tourism revenue from foreigners travelling to Thailand not less than 70 Billion Baht, it said.

Of the total projected losing revenue, about 20 Billion Baht would come from hotels and resorts, 18 Billion Baht from souvenirs, jewelery and handicrafts, and 32 Billion Baht from food and entertainment, it said.

The kingdom earns about 600 Billion Baht annually from foreign tourists spending while staying in the country.

well according to the bus driver who said cancellations was at 80% earlier then thats 56 billion to be lost, umm guessing game.

whoops 560 billion sticky key board think the cat peed on it

Honest, Paul. I never went near your keyboard!

Seriously, though, the economic fallout of all this stupidity will cost Thailand a fortune.

a short time economic fall, is a small problem in compare to a decade long dictatorship of Thaksin/Samak or whatever their name is.

[paulfromphuket]

Thailand could lose 70 Billion Baht in tourism revenue if unrest drags on

BANGKOK, Sept 5 (TNA) - Thailand could lose as high as 70 Billion Baht in tourism revenue from foreign visitors if political unrest in the country continues into the fourth quarter of 2008, according to a report issued by Kasikorn Research Center.

The report said violent demonstrations had already eroded safety confidence among foreign tourists wishing to travel to Thailand and there are signs that Thailand could lose about 35 Billion Baht from foreign tourists spending if the political turmoil could end this month.

If the unrest continues until the last quarter of 2008, the country is expected to lose tourism revenue from foreigners travelling to Thailand not less than 70 Billion Baht, it said.

Of the total projected losing revenue, about 20 Billion Baht would come from hotels and resorts, 18 Billion Baht from souvenirs, jewelery and handicrafts, and 32 Billion Baht from food and entertainment, it said.

The kingdom earns about 600 Billion Baht annually from foreign tourists spending while staying in the country.

well according to the bus driver who said cancellations was at 80% earlier then thats 56 billion to be lost, umm guessing game.

whoops 560 billion sticky key board think the cat peed on it

Honest, Paul. I never went near your keyboard!

Seriously, though, the economic fallout of all this stupidity will cost Thailand a fortune.

agreed its scary for my island this could be worse then the tsunami when at least the hotels that could operate were full of aid workers, this could be more like Sars when i walk almost alone on patong beach,

and it was the little ginger git i am sure no milk for her tonite.

[Tony Clifton]

All await Samak`s next move...

[kurtgruen]

Not that I have and inside track or anything like that, but I think right now would be a good time to go out and buy candles and flashlights. Just a hunch ;-)

[paulfromphuket]

Not that I have and inside track or anything like that, but I think right now would be a good time to go out and buy candles and flashlights. Just a hunch ;-)

great idea a roamantic candle lit evening by the pool

[blaze]

But OMR dont forget the village headmen will tell them that nasty Mr. Abhisit will cut all their manhoods off with a pair of shears if he gets to power and that we must all chant 6 doobries for 6 months a hundred times a day and rememeber it is only since that nasty Mr. Abhisist set the shadow cabinet up that the economy had failed and thirty baht health cards stopped working so well, and if Mr. Thaksin came back the price of rice would quadruple immediately and all those nice rice miller middlemen and money lenders who are all TRT MPs would not be forced by Mr. Abhisist to rip off every farmer and it is only a dreadful lie that Mr. Abhisit wants to let all rural kids compete education to first degree level fro free and we all know that Mr. Thaksin and Mr. Samak's little plan to stop all free rural education at M3 is the real way ahead because degrees dont grow rice and they dont teach you to wai your rural master properly and show respect to the local big name mafia family and after all that is what it is all about.........

So now now OMR dont go suggesting the rural poor dont make well informed decisions at elections. After all we all know they get lots of information.... on which to base their decisions

Hammered, I agree completely with your comments (now that I know what a doobrie is).

People upcountry are not stupid and in fact, like in all countries, some are very, very smart. In the west we know that people born from the poorest of families can be CEO's of the biggest companies if given the opportunity.

Below is a link to the recent article by Chang Noi. According to Chang Noi, the people upcountry have got smart and they have learned to use their votes too well, being consistent and rational with their votes (i.e. voting for Thaksin and his incarnates).

I think that Chang Noi has it wrong. He is confusing voting intelligence with the ability to vote intelligently. I agree with your comments that pressure is put on people in the northeast to vote a certain way, regardless of whether they are paid to or not paid to. In fact, it has nothing to do with payments, but rather safety for one's self and one's family. I am very surprised that Chang Noi has not addressed this.

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/09/...mocracy-is.html

Thanks for posting- Perhaps he didn't address the issue of risk for the same reason that he down played vote buying- because it is largely a myth that serves to undermine the legitimacy of votes cast in the north east. It is a good article- one that some on this forum have been arguing for three years. Democracy IS working up country- so lets try to figure out what Bangkok's problem is...

[kurtgruen]

agreed its scary for my island this could be worse then the tsunami when at least the hotels that could operate were full of aid workers, this could be more like Sars when i walk almost alone on patong beach,

and it was the little ginger git i am sure no milk for her tonite.

I'm sure Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam (maybe Mexico and South America, too), will be happy with the extra tourist dollars. Spreading the wealth around is not all that bad.

and yes, I agree, that once this is all over, things will go back to normal fairly quick. Maybe if Samak quits in time and a new election is called, we can still salvage the high season this year.

[kurtgruen]

Not that I have and inside track or anything like that, but I think right now would be a good time to go out and buy candles and flashlights. Just a hunch ;-)

great idea a roamantic candle lit evening by the pool

pool...you have a pool...I want a pool...sniff...sniff

[paulfromphuket]

Not that I have and inside track or anything like that, but I think right now would be a good time to go out and buy candles and flashlights. Just a hunch ;-)

great idea a roamantic candle lit evening by the pool

pool...you have a pool...I want a pool...sniff...sniff

wanna buy a house cheap cheap cat included

[paulfromphuket]

heres an angle to consider

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=786

did anybody bother to read this i thought interesting

[kurtgruen]

Not that I have and inside track or anything like that, but I think right now would be a good time to go out and buy candles and flashlights. Just a hunch ;-)

great idea a roamantic candle lit evening by the pool

pool...you have a pool...I want a pool...sniff...sniff

wanna buy a house cheap cheap cat included

lol

No, I'm trying to get rid of about 6 Rai of land and a house right now, so my cash is a little more liquid. Not sure if I want to eat rice for the rest of my life. To be honest, with all this political action, I miss British Columbia, my beloved NDP and political action, where I make a difference. Also skiing, sailing, hiking, etc.

I also miss a country, where I can buy appliances that last for more than 6 months, where my harley won't rust and my leathers don't get moldy in a week.

But first of all, I'll throw on my yellow shirt every day, wear my yellow armband and piss of all the Thaksin/Samak supporters around me. Then, maybe, if I'm lucky, I'll get a free ticket home lol

[Moonrakers]

heres an angle to consider

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=786

did anybody bother to read this i thought interesting

I did.

Indeed it is an interesting article and also balanced in the sense the it slams both sides equally, equally it gives neither side any credit whatsoever.

[paulfromphuket]

Not that I have and inside track or anything like that, but I think right now would be a good time to go out and buy candles and flashlights. Just a hunch ;-)

great idea a roamantic candle lit evening by the pool

pool...you have a pool...I want a pool...sniff...sniff

wanna buy a house cheap cheap cat included

lol

No, I'm trying to get rid of about 6 Rai of land and a house right now, so my cash is a little more liquid. Not sure if I want to eat rice for the rest of my life. To be honest, with all this political action, I miss British Columbia, my beloved NDP and political action, where I make a difference. Also skiing, sailing, hiking, etc.

I also miss a country, where I can buy appliances that last for more than 6 months, where my harley won't rust and my leathers don't get moldy in a week.

But first of all, I'll throw on my yellow shirt every day, wear my yellow armband and piss of all the Thaksin/Samak supporters around me. Then, maybe, if I'm lucky, I'll get a free ticket home lol

we have sailing but not much else on list here.

[Old Man River]

But OMR dont forget the village headmen will tell them that nasty Mr. Abhisit will cut all their manhoods off with a pair of shears if he gets to power and that we must all chant 6 doobries for 6 months a hundred times a day and rememeber it is only since that nasty Mr. Abhisist set the shadow cabinet up that the economy had failed and thirty baht health cards stopped working so well, and if Mr. Thaksin came back the price of rice would quadruple immediately and all those nice rice miller middlemen and money lenders who are all TRT MPs would not be forced by Mr. Abhisist to rip off every farmer and it is only a dreadful lie that Mr. Abhisit wants to let all rural kids compete education to first degree level fro free and we all know that Mr. Thaksin and Mr. Samak's little plan to stop all free rural education at M3 is the real way ahead because degrees dont grow rice and they dont teach you to wai your rural master properly and show respect to the local big name mafia family and after all that is what it is all about.........

So now now OMR dont go suggesting the rural poor dont make well informed decisions at elections. After all we all know they get lots of information.... on which to base their decisions

Hammered, I agree completely with your comments (now that I know what a doobrie is).

People upcountry are not stupid and in fact, like in all countries, some are very, very smart. In the west we know that people born from the poorest of families can be CEO's of the biggest companies if given the opportunity.

Below is a link to the recent article by Chang Noi. According to Chang Noi, the people upcountry have got smart and they have learned to use their votes too well, being consistent and rational with their votes (i.e. voting for Thaksin and his incarnates).

I think that Chang Noi has it wrong. He is confusing voting intelligence with the ability to vote intelligently. I agree with your comments that pressure is put on people in the northeast to vote a certain way, regardless of whether they are paid to or not paid to. In fact, it has nothing to do with payments, but rather safety for one's self and one's family. I am very surprised that Chang Noi has not addressed this.

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/09/...mocracy-is.html

Thanks for posting- Perhaps he didn't address the issue of risk for the same reason that he down played vote buying- because it is largely a myth that serves to undermine the legitimacy of votes cast in the north east. It is a good article- one that some on this forum have been arguing for three years. Democracy IS working up country- so lets try to figure out what Bangkok's problem is...

Blaze, actually it isn't working upcountry, but it has nothing to do with the intelligence or lack of intelligence of the voting community (which so many people get caught up on), nor does it having anything to do with payments (which so many more people get caught up on). The fact is, people upcountry are pressured into voting a certain way. Perhaps this is what they want anyway, but how do we know?

Do people upcountry really want a government that cares more about its survival than managing the country? Really, is that how they feel? If it is and they are the majority, then democracy has spoken. However, right now we can't say for sure, and that is the problem with the current process. Let votes be counted away from the poll sites and make sure that votes delivered to central locations are not given to just anyone because "their bosses are busy". So many tactics.

[paulfromphuket]

heres an angle to consider

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=786

did anybody bother to read this i thought interesting

I did.

Indeed it is an interesting article and also balanced in the sense the it slams both sides equally, equally it gives neither side any credit whatsoever.

sounds like the stalemate of this reality then, thanks for taking the time to look around.