State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[kurtgruen]

Just watching Coronel Sanders giving another speech...

http://www.astv-tv.com/new1_broadcast.html

[sriracha john]

Thailand: What might happen next?

The BBC looks at some of the possible scenarios for what might happen next.

Samak holds a referendum

The prime minister has said he plans to hold a national referendum to try to defuse the crisis, asking people what they think about the ongoing protests.

But the earliest this could happen is October, because a referendum cannot be held until at least 30 days after being approved by the Senate.

Even if it gets Senate approval, and the protesters - from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) - are willing to accept the delay, there is likely to be a lot of disagreement over the wording of the questions and the way the vote is organised.

Even the leader of the Senate has voiced skepticism that a referendum will be able to solve the crisis.

The government backs down

If Samak and his entire cabinet decide to resign, the protesters will have got what they want.

But the prime minister insists he has a legitimate mandate to govern, after winning December's elections, and is unlikely to just give up and go quietly.

Samak calls a snap election

At some point, Samak may decide that events are serious enough to warrant dissolving parliament and calling another poll.

This is unlikely to solve much, though. The bulk of support for Samak and his People's Power Party (PPP) comes from the rural voters who supported former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra before he was ousted in a coup and barred from politics.

These people voted for Samak in December, and are likely to do so again - and if Samak returns to power, the protesters are unlikely to give up their campaign.

They claim Samak is just a proxy for Thaksin - and will not be satisfied until he and his party leave office altogether.

The PAD leaders want a largely appointed body to govern the country instead.

The protesters back down

It seems very unlikely that the protesters will just pack up and go home. They have brought tents, camping equipment and even portaloos to their sit-in at Government House, and show no sign of leaving.

Their resolve has been strengthened as Samak's position has become ever more precarious. As well as the PAD, he is also under pressure from the main opposition party and the top army commanders.

Elsewhere in Thailand, others have joined in the anti-government cause, holding strikes and disrupting transport routes.

The protesters are therefore unlikely to give up their demands completely, but they may end up compromising on their call for the government to be replaced by a largely appointed body. A spokesman for the PAD said on Wednesday that the group would accept anyone as an interim prime minister as long as Samak went.

Samak's party is dissolved

The Thai Election Commission recently ruled that the PPP committed electoral fraud during December's poll and should be dissolved.

If the PPP is barred from office - as Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai Party was last year - the opposition Democrat Party is again likely to be the main winner.

But it will probably take months before the Constitutional Court decides whether to accept the Election Commission's recommendation - and the current stalemate is unlikely to last that long.

Samak uses violence

Samak has been linked to a decision to crack down harshly on a group of left-wing student demonstrators in 1976, and analysts initially feared he might do the same thing again.

But he knows that he will lose support and credibility if he orders the military to crack down on the protesters.

And even if he does, there is little chance they will follow orders. Soldiers in Bangkok have already refused to exercise the extra powers Samak gave them when he imposed a state of emergency.

Pro-government supporters join the fray

Pro-government supporters have already clashed with PAD protesters, leaving one person dead and dozens injured.

But they have not yet started sustained protests of their own, as they did two years ago to combat the pro-Thaksin rallies.

This could change, though, if the situation continues.

The military launches a coup

Less than two years ago, the army took over the country after a string of similar protests against Thaksin.

But Army Chief Anupong Paochinda has ruled out a coup this time, admitting that the last coup failed to solve the underlying issues plaguing Thailand.

The military is very powerful, though, and if tensions escalate, the generals might decide it is in the interests of the country to step in.

Some/all of the above

There is no obvious way out of this impasse, and none of the above scenarios is a clear recipe for lasting peace.

Thailand is polarised into two sides - those who ardently support Thaksin and his allies, and those who detest them and refuse to countenance the idea of them in power.

Until a compromise is reached, the rift in Thai society is likely to continue.

- BBC / 2008-09-05

one other option was omitted from posting, available here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7598668.stm

[paulfromphuket]

Thailand: What might happen next?

The BBC looks at some of the possible scenarios for what might happen next.

Samak holds a referendum

The prime minister has said he plans to hold a national referendum to try to defuse the crisis, asking people what they think about the ongoing protests.

But the earliest this could happen is October, because a referendum cannot be held until at least 30 days after being approved by the Senate.

Even if it gets Senate approval, and the protesters - from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) - are willing to accept the delay, there is likely to be a lot of disagreement over the wording of the questions and the way the vote is organised.

Even the leader of the Senate has voiced skepticism that a referendum will be able to solve the crisis.

The government backs down

If Samak and his entire cabinet decide to resign, the protesters will have got what they want.

But the prime minister insists he has a legitimate mandate to govern, after winning December's elections, and is unlikely to just give up and go quietly.

Samak calls a snap election

At some point, Samak may decide that events are serious enough to warrant dissolving parliament and calling another poll.

This is unlikely to solve much, though. The bulk of support for Samak and his People's Power Party (PPP) comes from the rural voters who supported former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra before he was ousted in a coup and barred from politics.

These people voted for Samak in December, and are likely to do so again - and if Samak returns to power, the protesters are unlikely to give up their campaign.

They claim Samak is just a proxy for Thaksin - and will not be satisfied until he and his party leave office altogether.

The PAD leaders want a largely appointed body to govern the country instead.

The protesters back down

It seems very unlikely that the protesters will just pack up and go home. They have brought tents, camping equipment and even portaloos to their sit-in at Government House, and show no sign of leaving.

Their resolve has been strengthened as Samak's position has become ever more precarious. As well as the PAD, he is also under pressure from the main opposition party and the top army commanders.

Elsewhere in Thailand, others have joined in the anti-government cause, holding strikes and disrupting transport routes.

The protesters are therefore unlikely to give up their demands completely, but they may end up compromising on their call for the government to be replaced by a largely appointed body. A spokesman for the PAD said on Wednesday that the group would accept anyone as an interim prime minister as long as Samak went.

Samak's party is dissolved

The Thai Election Commission recently ruled that the PPP committed electoral fraud during December's poll and should be dissolved.

If the PPP is barred from office - as Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai Party was last year - the opposition Democrat Party is again likely to be the main winner.

But it will probably take months before the Constitutional Court decides whether to accept the Election Commission's recommendation - and the current stalemate is unlikely to last that long.

Samak uses violence

Samak has been linked to a decision to crack down harshly on a group of left-wing student demonstrators in 1976, and analysts initially feared he might do the same thing again.

But he knows that he will lose support and credibility if he orders the military to crack down on the protesters.

And even if he does, there is little chance they will follow orders. Soldiers in Bangkok have already refused to exercise the extra powers Samak gave them when he imposed a state of emergency.

Pro-government supporters join the fray

Pro-government supporters have already clashed with PAD protesters, leaving one person dead and dozens injured.

But they have not yet started sustained protests of their own, as they did two years ago to combat the pro-Thaksin rallies.

This could change, though, if the situation continues.

The military launches a coup

Less than two years ago, the army took over the country after a string of similar protests against Thaksin.

But Army Chief Anupong Paochinda has ruled out a coup this time, admitting that the last coup failed to solve the underlying issues plaguing Thailand.

The military is very powerful, though, and if tensions escalate, the generals might decide it is in the interests of the country to step in.

Some/all of the above

There is no obvious way out of this impasse, and none of the above scenarios is a clear recipe for lasting peace.

Thailand is polarised into two sides - those who ardently support Thaksin and his allies, and those who detest them and refuse to countenance the idea of them in power.

Until a compromise is reached, the rift in Thai society is likely to continue.

- BBC / 2008-09-05

one other option was omitted from posting, available here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7598668.stm

The omitted one looks like the best hope for peace.

[scyriacus]

....As for Wikipedia, anyone can go there and put any information in that they like. I used to use it for promoting our restaurant, but wouldn't use it for finding information. I thought it was pretty lame, if it just let guys like me go on and change things on there

yeah kurt, it's pretty lame to let guys like you change wikipedia. maybe someone is going to change it back, please. they've got moderators who take their job serious and readers who report abuse and are respected. you will not long enjoy your brazen surreptitious advertising. do you recommend any better source of unbiased information? tell us your favorite!

[robee]

Does a State of Emergency in anyway affect what can be posted on Thai Visa.

Sure would be a lot fewer posts if only gov't sanctioned posts were allowed!

Good post. Thought about this but didn't want to seem paranoid. Believe it would take much for cencorship... Exactly what that is we can only wait and see. It's all good

[scyriacus]

As always, you state facts that are in clear contradiction of eyewitness reports, i.e. PAD guards whipped up into a frenzy from the stage and then sent to repulse DAAD at the bridge. DAAD did not attack the PAD demo at Gov. Hse. Had they done so, the defence of "self-defence" could have been used.

oh kitty i love your comments so very much. if i understand you rite, daad have never ever done anything wrong. all aggression is going out from pad. true? please, make us believe you!

[kurtgruen]

Do people upcountry really want a government that cares more about its survival than managing the country? Really, is that how they feel?

I think that a lot of things are changing up North here. More and more people in my town (Chiang Dao), are coming out openly and saying that they don't like Samak. There is still a lot of genuine TRT support, but is is eroding fast, since Samak took over. A lot of people remember what he did years ago, in the crackdown. Some people are also looking at the PAD as the voice of the people. If this goes on for long, Samak will destroy everything that Thaksin build up.

They do have all their contacts in place for vote buying, but now that some of the people see the PAD as the voice of the people, that message is spreading fast. Neighbors are talking to each other. They all know that the PPP is corrupt. Even the PPP supporters are going to be reluctant to go to paid protests for a few hundred baht, after seeing one of them shot dead on TV. (Just like a lot of PAD supporters are scared to go to Government house, because they have families to support and feel that they can't just think about themselves.

I've seen ASTV near Mae Thaeng, in the community building. They ordered it. The tide is turning and Samak better start swimming fast, if he wants to survive.

Yes, I am Pro PAD, but I am also trying to give a factual picture of what is happening in rural areas right now. I'm sure that I am not the only one experiencing this?

Today, I had my electrician work on some of my wiring, while I was watching ASTV. He was literally glued to my screen, soaking it all up.

People's hearts and minds can be changed - one person at a time. Sondhi knows that.

I would keep an eye out for the unions, too. They will be there, when they are needed. They already are.

In my eyes, Samak is toast. He has become the joke of the Country and of the world.

Too much rice - Not enough protein

[paulfromphuket]

....As for Wikipedia, anyone can go there and put any information in that they like. I used to use it for promoting our restaurant, but wouldn't use it for finding information. I thought it was pretty lame, if it just let guys like me go on and change things on there

yeah kurt, it's pretty lame to let guys like you change wikipedia. maybe someone is going to change it back, please. they've got moderators who take their job serious and readers who report abuse and are respected. you will not long enjoy your brazen surreptitious advertising. do you recommend any better source of unbiased information? tell us your favorite!

lets all take turns in editing Wikipedia it could provide hours ney days of fun.whos going to start ?

[robee]

....As for Wikipedia, anyone can go there and put any information in that they like. I used to use it for promoting our restaurant, but wouldn't use it for finding information. I thought it was pretty lame, if it just let guys like me go on and change things on there

yeah kurt, it's pretty lame to let guys like you change wikipedia. maybe someone is going to change it back, please. they've got moderators who take their job serious and readers who report abuse and are respected. you will not long enjoy your brazen surreptitious advertising. do you recommend any better source of unbiased information? tell us your favorite!

I'm going to check wiki. Other source was?

[scyriacus]

Oh it's always the same old anti-thakisn brigade with the same old sky is falling 'vote buying' stories.You know as well as anyone, the Isaan and Northern voters (the majority) would vote for these guys with or without ANY money. You just won't admit it publicly.

Then why spend the millions of baht, if not billions, buying votes if they were so secure in a victory?

Who told you they did? Thaivisa.com?

I tell you! how many more millions you need? you look pretty old to me..............

[sriracha john]

Samak is the Rodney Dangerfield of Thailand...

Thai PM: State of Emergency to be reviewed

BANGKOK, Sept 5 (TNA) - Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said on Friday he would review the State of Emergency imposed by his government in the Thai capital within the next few days after realising that few institutions and individuals respected the order issued earlier this week.

Samak imposed the order on Tuesday and ordered Army Chief General. Anupong Paochinda in charge of implementing it, but the latter had not evicted the anti-government protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) occupying Government House since August 26.

The State of Emergency order in Bangkok bans public gatherings of more than five people, among several other measures.

*he gets "no respect" on that one too in regards to compliance*

Samak said that usually a state of emergency enactment would remain in effect for three months but he would not keep it in effect for that long.

He said he would discuss on a plan to "revoke it within the next day or two" with concerned officials whom he had talked to before imposing the decree.

Asked whether he would negotiate with the PAD protesters on breaking the current political deadlock, Samak reiterated that he would not.

"If the Senate Speaker wanted to be a middleman in conducting negotiations, it's his business and not mine," said Samak.

* "Afterall, it's not like I'm the Leader of the Nation or anything like that" *

================================================

Kudos to the Senate Speaker, General Anupong, and the PAD Leaders who are working on attempting to resolve this all-consuming issue for the country.

Edited September 5, 2008 by sriracha john

[scyriacus]

Well said, Tony. Under PAD proposals, the poor and uneducated will be denied any right to vote or participate in decision making, they will in fact become an under-class. The Bangkok elite would be quite happy to see these children used as objects of abuse, as long as the profits continue to come their way.

BECOME 'underclass'? 'underclass' are those who buy votes! let's get rid of them, laeow laeow.....(เร็วเร็ว)

[paulfromphuket]

some bed time reading its interesting they are making a profit.

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=789

[kurtgruen]

....As for Wikipedia, anyone can go there and put any information in that they like. I used to use it for promoting our restaurant, but wouldn't use it for finding information. I thought it was pretty lame, if it just let guys like me go on and change things on there

yeah kurt, it's pretty lame to let guys like you change wikipedia. maybe someone is going to change it back, please. they've got moderators who take their job serious and readers who report abuse and are respected. you will not long enjoy your brazen surreptitious advertising. do you recommend any better source of unbiased information? tell us your favorite!

Unbiased information...that's a tough one...I have no idea. What I do, is search as much of the media as I can (Nation, Bangkok Post, ASTV, NBT, etc.). I think they are all biased, but between all of them, maybe I can get the picture.

Mostly I watch who is involved on both sides and make up my own mind...I see Unions, students and educated people on the PAD side, along with whoever else of all walks of life. Being a union member and a former organizer, I know what Unions stand for...i.e. better working conditions, job security, wage increases, etc.

So when I see my union brothers, at great risk to themselves, take the side of the PAD, that is a big point in swaying me towards the PAD. When I see Educators supporting the PAD, intelligent people, that also makes me think that the PAD is the side to support.

Not knowing enough about Thai politics, that is probalby my best bet on finding the better side in this conflict.

I do read all the articles posted as links and I am not a mindless sheep. I have been quite openminded over the past few years, I think.

Samaks track record doesn't help either. He is definitely somebody who should never have been Prime Minister of Thailand.

I was making a valid point about Wikipedia, that it is user input, therefore you can't trust the content (at least until it is edited by competent, unbiased people)

You seem quick to judge, without knowing much, which definitely would deter me from trusting your point of view on this conflict, for example you talk about my, in your words ""brazen surreptitious advertising"", when in fact, you have no clue about what I do....

Fact is, when I used to write about Chiang Dao, I wrote about my restaurant and also about my competitors in a positive light. I run a community website, on a volunteer basis, for all of Chiang Dao, for which I take no money and don't sell advertising. My wife and I are taking a sabatical and have closed the restaurant for the coming year, but I still keep up the website, so others can benefit, without asking for anything. Anyways, enough about me. I just wanted to make the point, that you are very quick to judge.

Next time, maybe try to investigate a little bit more, before you state things as fact.

Nothing personal though. Just an observation!

[kurtgruen]

....As for Wikipedia, anyone can go there and put any information in that they like. I used to use it for promoting our restaurant, but wouldn't use it for finding information. I thought it was pretty lame, if it just let guys like me go on and change things on there

yeah kurt, it's pretty lame to let guys like you change wikipedia. maybe someone is going to change it back, please. they've got moderators who take their job serious and readers who report abuse and are respected. you will not long enjoy your brazen surreptitious advertising. do you recommend any better source of unbiased information? tell us your favorite!

lets all take turns in editing Wikipedia it could provide hours ney days of fun.whos going to start ?

lol

[scyriacus]

Most of what I have seen tonight is the same old crap. Along with a lot of insulting. inflammatory and derogatory comments.....

Most of what I have seen tonight is the same old crap. Along with a lot of insulting. inflammatory and derogatory comments.

what 'ubonjoe' wants to tell the forum? funny, isn't it? or not?

[kurtgruen]

Does a State of Emergency in anyway affect what can be posted on Thai Visa.

Sure would be a lot fewer posts if only gov't sanctioned posts were allowed!

Good post. Thought about this but didn't want to seem paranoid. Believe it would take much for cencorship... Exactly what that is we can only wait and see. It's all good

The way I look at it, if a country wants to kick me out for practicing free speech, I wouldn't want to live in it anyways. So far I'm impressed. I have been able to speak my mind without getting arrested, tortured, shot or kicked out of the country. So things are a lot better than a lot of other countries, here in Thailand. I guess that is why I still live here and still care about this beautiful country.

I always believed that it's better to stand tall and speak your mind, then to live your life on your knees anyways.

[Moonrakers]

There is no obvious way out of this impasse, and none of the above scenarios is a clear recipe for lasting peace.

Thailand is polarised into two sides - those who ardently support Thaksin and his allies, and those who detest them and refuse to countenance the idea of them in power.

Until a compromise is reached, the rift in Thai society is likely to continue.

Can't disagree with that, I did take a disliking to Jonathan Head but i fell that more recently he is looking at things from both perspectives.

The omitted one looks like the best hope for peace.

Absolutely, although this government is sneaky enough to show 5 aces (From one deck) to beat a royal flush.

[paulfromphuket]

....As for Wikipedia, anyone can go there and put any information in that they like. I used to use it for promoting our restaurant, but wouldn't use it for finding information. I thought it was pretty lame, if it just let guys like me go on and change things on there

yeah kurt, it's pretty lame to let guys like you change wikipedia. maybe someone is going to change it back, please. they've got moderators who take their job serious and readers who report abuse and are respected. you will not long enjoy your brazen surreptitious advertising. do you recommend any better source of unbiased information? tell us your favorite!

Unbiased information...that's a tough one...I have no idea. What I do, is search as much of the media as I can (Nation, Bangkok Post, ASTV, NBT, etc.). I think they are all biased, but between all of them, maybe I can get the picture.

Mostly I watch who is involved on both sides and make up my own mind...I see Unions, students and educated people on the PAD side, along with whoever else of all walks of life. Being a union member and a former organizer, I know what Unions stand for...i.e. better working conditions, job security, wage increases, etc.

So when I see my union brothers, at great risk to themselves, take the side of the PAD, that is a big point in swaying me towards the PAD. When I see Educators supporting the PAD, intelligent people, that also makes me think that the PAD is the side to support.

Not knowing enough about Thai politics, that is probalby my best bet on finding the better side in this conflict.

I do read all the articles posted as links and I am not a mindless sheep. I have been quite openminded over the past few years, I think.

Samaks track record doesn't help either. He is definitely somebody who should never have been Prime Minister of Thailand.

I was making a valid point about Wikipedia, that it is user input, therefore you can't trust the content (at least until it is edited by competent, unbiased people)

You seem quick to judge, without knowing much, which definitely would deter me from trusting your point of view on this conflict, for example you talk about my, in your words ""brazen surreptitious advertising"", when in fact, you have no clue about what I do....

Fact is, when I used to write about Chiang Dao, I wrote about my restaurant and also about my competitors in a positive light. I run a community website, on a volunteer basis, for all of Chiang Dao, for which I take no money and don't sell advertising. My wife and I are taking a sabatical and have closed the restaurant for the coming year, but I still keep up the website, so others can benefit, without asking for anything. Anyways, enough about me. I just wanted to make the point, that you are very quick to judge.

Next time, maybe try to investigate a little bit more, before you state things as fact.

Nothing personal though. Just an observation!

excellent retort,i think he was the dude who tried to trash my factual report of pad been paids and flown from phuket.

I can not support the people against democracy for the same reason i can support the people plundering party they just no good for any kind of system wheres the democrats?

[scyriacus]

...Wish I could post in Thai..

i do know, why you couldn't post in thai: 1. it's not allowed (read the forum rules) 2. you are unable, coz you don't understand thai.

[scyriacus]

You ok?

and you? how about you? what is your contribution? are you off-topic again? please explain to me, but please moderately, that we can understand you!

[paulfromphuket]

...Wish I could post in Thai..

i do know, why you couldn't post in thai: 1. it's not allowed (read the forum rules) 2. you are unable, coz you don't understand thai.

and just how do you know that?

[scyriacus]

if you have a PERSONAL feud with someone would you please use "personal message" (pm)

[kurtgruen]

some bed time reading its interesting they are making a profit.

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=789

Just read the article...it started out pretty good, but the following passage that ended it, is wishful thinking. It has gone way beyond that point already.

To stop and step back from the abyss,

The government must urgently withdraw its security apparatus from encountering the PAD anywhere.

The 9 PAD leaders who have been issued arrest warrants must turn themselves in to the authorities to fight in the legal process at once.

What the article doesn't take into account is that the PAD is constantly gaining in popularity. The leaders turning themselves in, would be political suicide and an end to the PAD movement. The only real force that seems to be holding the government accountable at the moment. (Aside from the courts, which could easily be overpowered by the government, without help from PAD)

Remember, you still have a known, convicted Criminal (Thaksin, who also has a warrant for his arrest out on him) running around with a diplomatic passport, which Samak and his PPP coalition refuses to revoke. That's just one of the many reasons, that we need the PAD.

[Moonrakers]

....As for Wikipedia, anyone can go there and put any information in that they like. I used to use it for promoting our restaurant, but wouldn't use it for finding information. I thought it was pretty lame, if it just let guys like me go on and change things on there

yeah kurt, it's pretty lame to let guys like you change wikipedia. maybe someone is going to change it back, please. they've got moderators who take their job serious and readers who report abuse and are respected. you will not long enjoy your brazen surreptitious advertising. do you recommend any better source of unbiased information? tell us your favorite!

Unbiased information...that's a tough one...I have no idea. What I do, is search as much of the media as I can (Nation, Bangkok Post, ASTV, NBT, etc.). I think they are all biased, but between all of them, maybe I can get the picture.

Mostly I watch who is involved on both sides and make up my own mind...I see Unions, students and educated people on the PAD side, along with whoever else of all walks of life. Being a union member and a former organizer, I know what Unions stand for...i.e. better working conditions, job security, wage increases, etc.

So when I see my union brothers, at great risk to themselves, take the side of the PAD, that is a big point in swaying me towards the PAD. When I see Educators supporting the PAD, intelligent people, that also makes me think that the PAD is the side to support.

Not knowing enough about Thai politics, that is probalby my best bet on finding the better side in this conflict.

I do read all the articles posted as links and I am not a mindless sheep. I have been quite openminded over the past few years, I think.

Samaks track record doesn't help either. He is definitely somebody who should never have been Prime Minister of Thailand.

I was making a valid point about Wikipedia, that it is user input, therefore you can't trust the content (at least until it is edited by competent, unbiased people)

You seem quick to judge, without knowing much, which definitely would deter me from trusting your point of view on this conflict, for example you talk about my, in your words ""brazen surreptitious advertising"", when in fact, you have no clue about what I do....

Fact is, when I used to write about Chiang Dao, I wrote about my restaurant and also about my competitors in a positive light. I run a community website, on a volunteer basis, for all of Chiang Dao, for which I take no money and don't sell advertising. My wife and I are taking a sabatical and have closed the restaurant for the coming year, but I still keep up the website, so others can benefit, without asking for anything. Anyways, enough about me. I just wanted to make the point, that you are very quick to judge.

Next time, maybe try to investigate a little bit more, before you state things as fact.

Nothing personal though. Just an observation!

excellent retort,i think he was the dude who tried to trash my factual report of pad been paids and flown from phuket.

I can not support the people against democracy for the same reason i can support the people plundering party they just no good for any kind of system wheres the democrats?

No disrespect Paul, but for me and no doubt others on TV, a report is not factual unless backed up by something (At least a press report).

Also another poster mentioned the difference between being paid to be there, and being paid so that they can be there.

I am not having a dig, (Well maybe a little ). But please add some substance to your "Factual reports" otherwise for the most part they will be ignored or taken as fiction. If I posted that I have just been to the local market and saw some chap wearing a red/yellow T-shirt offering 500/1,000 baht notes to join whatever protest, would the readers here believe me?

[scyriacus]

.... and yes, I confess I was guilty of the very opportunism I accused you of. My apologies.

we graciously accept your apologies, coz 'animatic' is one of the most sincere members on tv

[paulfromphuket]

some bed time reading its interesting they are making a profit.

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=789

Just read the article...it started out pretty good, but the following passage that ended it, is wishful thinking. It has gone way beyond that point already.

To stop and step back from the abyss,

The government must urgently withdraw its security apparatus from encountering the PAD anywhere.

The 9 PAD leaders who have been issued arrest warrants must turn themselves in to the authorities to fight in the legal process at once.

What the article doesn't take into account is that the PAD is constantly gaining in popularity. The leaders turning themselves in, would be political suicide and an end to the PAD movement. The only real force that seems to be holding the government accountable at the moment. (Aside from the courts, which could easily be overpowered by the government, without help from PAD)

Remember, you still have a known, convicted Criminal (Thaksin, who also has a warrant for his arrest out on him) running around with a diplomatic passport, which Samak and his PPP coalition refuses to revoke. That's just one of the many reasons, that we need the PAD.

I agree ,i think he just just lost the will to live and had to end the article some how but i think stepping back from the abyss was valid.so how do you see this ending?

[paulfromphuket]

....As for Wikipedia, anyone can go there and put any information in that they like. I used to use it for promoting our restaurant, but wouldn't use it for finding information. I thought it was pretty lame, if it just let guys like me go on and change things on there

yeah kurt, it's pretty lame to let guys like you change wikipedia. maybe someone is going to change it back, please. they've got moderators who take their job serious and readers who report abuse and are respected. you will not long enjoy your brazen surreptitious advertising. do you recommend any better source of unbiased information? tell us your favorite!

Unbiased information...that's a tough one...I have no idea. What I do, is search as much of the media as I can (Nation, Bangkok Post, ASTV, NBT, etc.). I think they are all biased, but between all of them, maybe I can get the picture.

Mostly I watch who is involved on both sides and make up my own mind...I see Unions, students and educated people on the PAD side, along with whoever else of all walks of life. Being a union member and a former organizer, I know what Unions stand for...i.e. better working conditions, job security, wage increases, etc.

So when I see my union brothers, at great risk to themselves, take the side of the PAD, that is a big point in swaying me towards the PAD. When I see Educators supporting the PAD, intelligent people, that also makes me think that the PAD is the side to support.

Not knowing enough about Thai politics, that is probalby my best bet on finding the better side in this conflict.

I do read all the articles posted as links and I am not a mindless sheep. I have been quite openminded over the past few years, I think.

Samaks track record doesn't help either. He is definitely somebody who should never have been Prime Minister of Thailand.

I was making a valid point about Wikipedia, that it is user input, therefore you can't trust the content (at least until it is edited by competent, unbiased people)

You seem quick to judge, without knowing much, which definitely would deter me from trusting your point of view on this conflict, for example you talk about my, in your words ""brazen surreptitious advertising"", when in fact, you have no clue about what I do....

Fact is, when I used to write about Chiang Dao, I wrote about my restaurant and also about my competitors in a positive light. I run a community website, on a volunteer basis, for all of Chiang Dao, for which I take no money and don't sell advertising. My wife and I are taking a sabatical and have closed the restaurant for the coming year, but I still keep up the website, so others can benefit, without asking for anything. Anyways, enough about me. I just wanted to make the point, that you are very quick to judge.

Next time, maybe try to investigate a little bit more, before you state things as fact.

Nothing personal though. Just an observation!

excellent retort,i think he was the dude who tried to trash my factual report of pad been paids and flown from phuket.

I can not support the people against democracy for the same reason i can support the people plundering party they just no good for any kind of system wheres the democrats?

No disrespect Paul, but for me and no doubt others on TV, a report is not factual unless backed up by something (At least a press report).

Also another poster mentioned the difference between being paid to be there, and being paid so that they can be there.

I am not having a dig, (Well maybe a little ). But please add some substance to your "Factual reports" otherwise for the most part they will be ignored or taken as fiction. If I posted that I have just been to the local market and saw some chap wearing a red/yellow T-shirt offering 500/1,000 baht notes to join whatever protest, would the readers here believe me?

what ever if you choose to believe the press over an eye wintness up to u am i bothered! bothered am i bothered.

[Thai at Heart]

What is fascinating is that the average Bangkok Thai is dealing with corruption every time he turns around- every time he walks on a broken sidewalk that was only installed two years ago (built in obsolescence)- when he buys his kid a drivers license- or obtains better grades for his children- when he secures a job with the police and when he pays off a cop- he's faced with corruption every time he walks past endless stalls selling fake goods- computer programs- DVDs- when he is 'advised' by a revenue consultant as to how to dodge paying full tax- when he has to deal with customs- ask Thais about corruption in the country- in practically every domain of public life- including the Sangha- And what makes me very sad- is that every Thai middle class PAD supporter- and in fact many farangs- that I have talked to- are convinced that the PAD fight is about corrutpion and that if won, will hail the end of corruption. And I just wish that were the case. But of course it won't make any diffrence- not really- still, in the mind of many of the PAD, I do believe that they think that if Thaksin and his legacy can be erased- somehow the corruption will end. I don't get it. Yet I suppose a sociologist with something to say about collective behavior, about skapegoats- about utopian thinking- might be able to shed some light.

with a bleeding heart i admit to your pessimistic/realistic dim views. but there is always hope & patience! what would you suggest as a better alternative to pad? nothing? what sociologist?? who would listen to him? the pad seems to be - sadly enough - thailands only chance ปัจจุบัน

All too often people with ailments tend to fall prey to the first snake-oil charmer that rolls into town- only to find out that the cure was worse than the disease.

There are no magic bullets- beware those who would try to sell you one. Modern history is a grave yard of utopias- all because people bought the magic bullets.

Very well put. And the biggest snake charmer of them all is sitting in a yellow shirt leading a miniscule amount of the country, and they are actually giving him a chance to speak.

Amazing Thailand

[sriracha john]

excellent retort,i think he was the dude who tried to trash my factual report of pad been paids and flown from phuket.

I can not support the people against democracy for the same reason i can support the people plundering party they just no good for any kind of system wheres the democrats?

just for clarity, as posted it was a report alleging that PAD supporters were paid and flown from Phuket, of which, is there a follow-up you could provide regarding how many people were allegedly flown to Bangkok?