An Encouraging Trend

[sriracha john]

America is starting to do this more and hopefully other countries will follow suit:

No bond for man accused of sex with minor in Thailand

KNOXVILLE, Tenn., USA.

A federal judge in Knoxville has denied bond for a private school teacher accused of traveling to Thailand to have sex with a child.

Judge Clifford Shirley said 35-year-old Gregory Alec Phillips is a "risk of flight and nonappearance and a danger to the community and young children."

Phillips was indicted in December after investigators said he had been living with the 13-year-old boy in Bangkok. Police have said he is charged with "engaging in illicit sexual contact in foreign places."

The indictment contends Phillips went to Thailand in 2001 to engaging in a sexual relationship with a minor.

Phillips lived in Knoxville until 1997 when he moved to Charlotte, North Carolina. Phillips' attorney had asked the judge to allow Phillips to live with an orthopedic surgeon in Athens until his May 18th trial.

Copyright 2005 Associated Press

Edited February 12, 2005 by sriracha john

[konangrit]

It's also the case in Britain, but I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand it's good that sick people like this man (if found guilty) can be prosecuted back in their home countries when they might have escaped prosecution in the country where they commited these heinous acts, however, it sets a dangerous precedent that you can be tried back in your home country for things you have done outside it's borders. Where will it lead? Laws being enacted to prosecute dope smokers returning from Amsterdam? May sound far fetched, but it is one step closer now than it was a few years ago.

I'd feel much more comfortable if developed nations such as the US and Europe pressured the governments in countries where this is a problem to strengthen their child sex abuse laws and to prosecute foreign paedophiles on their own soil. If US authorities have evidence to prosecute this guy then it should be handed over to the relevant Thai authorities and he should be deported back to Thailand to await trial. A long stint in a Thai prison would also be a far worse punishment than a spell in a prison of their home countries.

Infact, if there was a major crackdown with highly publicised long sentances in Thai prisons being handed out to child sex tourists then I think this would go a long way to discouraging others to do the same.

So come ont Thaksin, you must be running out of wars by now, how about a war on paedophiles?

[sriracha john]

It's also the case in Britain, but I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand it's good that sick people like this man (if found guilty) can be prosecuted back in their home countries when they might have escaped prosecution in the country where they commited these heinous acts, however, it sets a dangerous precedent that you can be tried back in your home country for things you have done outside it's borders. Where will it lead? Laws being enacted to prosecute dope smokers returning from Amsterdam? May sound far fetched, but it is one step closer now than it was a few years ago.

I'd feel much more comfortable if developed nations such as the US and Europe pressured the governments in countries where this is a problem to strengthen their child sex abuse laws and to prosecute foreign paedophiles on their own soil. If US authorities have evidence to prosecute this guy then it should be handed over to the relevant Thai authorities and he should be deported back to Thailand to await trial. A long stint in a Thai prison would also be a far worse punishment than a spell in a prison of their home countries.

Infact, if there was a major crackdown with highly publicised long sentances in Thai prisons being handed out to child sex tourists then I think this would go a long way to discouraging others to do the same.

So come ont Thaksin, you must be running out of wars by now, how about a war on paedophiles?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it's very unrealistic for any nation to begin deporting it's own citizens to a foreign country for prosecution. Fujimoro of Peru/Japan comes to mind.

Far more realistic is to continue this trend of bringing these guys to justice on their home turf. As for expanding these cases... as it is in ANY decision to prosecute, the decision is made by a district attorney, in the case of the USA, or some other named prosecutor. I wouldn't see D.A.'s pursuing cases of drug possession as the practical expenses in any of these international cases is huge. They'll undertake it for a pedophile... but common sense would preclude going after dope smokers.

[Boon Mee]

It's also the case in Britain, but I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand it's good that sick people like this man (if found guilty) can be prosecuted back in their home countries when they might have escaped prosecution in the country where they commited these heinous acts, however, it sets a dangerous precedent that you can be tried back in your home country for things you have done outside it's borders. Where will it lead? Laws being enacted to prosecute dope smokers returning from Amsterdam? May sound far fetched, but it is one step closer now than it was a few years ago.

I'd feel much more comfortable if developed nations such as the US and Europe pressured the governments in countries where this is a problem to strengthen their child sex abuse laws and to prosecute foreign paedophiles on their own soil. If US authorities have evidence to prosecute this guy then it should be handed over to the relevant Thai authorities and he should be deported back to Thailand to await trial. A long stint in a Thai prison would also be a far worse punishment than a spell in a prison of their home countries.

Infact, if there was a major crackdown with highly publicised long sentances in Thai prisons being handed out to child sex tourists then I think this would go a long way to discouraging others to do the same.

So come ont Thaksin, you must be running out of wars by now, how about a war on paedophiles?

but common sense would preclude going after dope smokers.

Them dirty dope-smokin' Hippies!

That's what's wrong with the world today!

[konangrit]

It's also the case in Britain, but I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand it's good that sick people like this man (if found guilty) can be prosecuted back in their home countries when they might have escaped prosecution in the country where they commited these heinous acts, however, it sets a dangerous precedent that you can be tried back in your home country for things you have done outside it's borders. Where will it lead? Laws being enacted to prosecute dope smokers returning from Amsterdam? May sound far fetched, but it is one step closer now than it was a few years ago.

I'd feel much more comfortable if developed nations such as the US and Europe pressured the governments in countries where this is a problem to strengthen their child sex abuse laws and to prosecute foreign paedophiles on their own soil. If US authorities have evidence to prosecute this guy then it should be handed over to the relevant Thai authorities and he should be deported back to Thailand to await trial. A long stint in a Thai prison would also be a far worse punishment than a spell in a prison of their home countries.

Infact, if there was a major crackdown with highly publicised long sentances in Thai prisons being handed out to child sex tourists then I think this would go a long way to discouraging others to do the same.

So come ont Thaksin, you must be running out of wars by now, how about a war on paedophiles?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it's very unrealistic for any nation to begin deporting it's own citizens to a foreign country for prosecution. Fujimoro of Peru/Japan comes to mind.

Far more realistic is to continue this trend of bringing these guys to justice on their home turf. As for expanding these cases... as it is in ANY decision to prosecute, the decision is made by a district attorney, in the case of the USA, or some other named prosecutor. I wouldn't see D.A.'s pursuing cases of drug possession as the practical expenses in any of these international cases is huge. They'll undertake it for a pedophile... but common sense would preclude going after dope smokers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some valid points, but Japan is the exception, rather than the rule in not deporting it's own citizens. I concede that it's unlikely anyone will ever be prosecuted for minor drug offences commited abroad, it was meant as more of an extreme example of what could happen.

In Britain, atleast, this new law did set a precedent which I'm uncomfortable with. I'm not too knowledgable on the US system, so don't know if it has quite the same implifications. I don't think anyone has a problem with it being used against paedophiles, I just hope future governments don't extend it to include other acts which are ilegal in the home country.

[sriracha john]

Them dirty dope-smokin' Hippies!

That's what's wrong with the world today!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. There's simply not enough of them these days...

[Crazy Dave]

if they have done the wrong why shouldnt thai courts prosecute them? wouldnt that be fair?it would save a lot of money..

[KhunPadThai]

>I think it's very unrealistic for any nation to begin deporting it's own citizens to a foreign country for prosecution. Fujimoro of Peru/Japan comes to mind.

I don't think Fujimori was even a Japanese citizen when he fled Peru. I think his parents had emigrated to Peru and he was born there. The Japanese were just being racist.

Khun Pad Thai

[pedro01]

It's also the case in Britain, but I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand it's good that sick people like this man (if found guilty) can be prosecuted back in their home countries when they might have escaped prosecution in the country where they commited these heinous acts, however, it sets a dangerous precedent that you can be tried back in your home country for things you have done outside it's borders. Where will it lead? Laws being enacted to prosecute dope smokers returning from Amsterdam? May sound far fetched, but it is one step closer now than it was a few years ago.

I'd feel much more comfortable if developed nations such as the US and Europe pressured the governments in countries where this is a problem to strengthen their child sex abuse laws and to prosecute foreign paedophiles on their own soil. If US authorities have evidence to prosecute this guy then it should be handed over to the relevant Thai authorities and he should be deported back to Thailand to await trial. A long stint in a Thai prison would also be a far worse punishment than a spell in a prison of their home countries.

Infact, if there was a major crackdown with highly publicised long sentances in Thai prisons being handed out to child sex tourists then I think this would go a long way to discouraging others to do the same.

So come ont Thaksin, you must be running out of wars by now, how about a war on paedophiles?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hmmm - we are talking about pedophiles here, which is a little different from people smoking dope in Amsterdam.

This a fairly typical 'lefty' view where setting precedents seems to be everything...

I beleive there's a place for precedents and a place for exceptions to them and in this case an exception for kiddy fiddlers is fine in my book.

I can't see anything wrong with this. Don't be so paranoid.

[konangrit]

It's also the case in Britain, but I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand it's good that sick people like this man (if found guilty) can be prosecuted back in their home countries when they might have escaped prosecution in the country where they commited these heinous acts, however, it sets a dangerous precedent that you can be tried back in your home country for things you have done outside it's borders. Where will it lead? Laws being enacted to prosecute dope smokers returning from Amsterdam? May sound far fetched, but it is one step closer now than it was a few years ago.

I'd feel much more comfortable if developed nations such as the US and Europe pressured the governments in countries where this is a problem to strengthen their child sex abuse laws and to prosecute foreign paedophiles on their own soil. If US authorities have evidence to prosecute this guy then it should be handed over to the relevant Thai authorities and he should be deported back to Thailand to await trial. A long stint in a Thai prison would also be a far worse punishment than a spell in a prison of their home countries.

Infact, if there was a major crackdown with highly publicised long sentances in Thai prisons being handed out to child sex tourists then I think this would go a long way to discouraging others to do the same.

So come ont Thaksin, you must be running out of wars by now, how about a war on paedophiles?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hmmm - we are talking about pedophiles here, which is a little different from people smoking dope in Amsterdam.

This a fairly typical 'lefty' view where setting precedents seems to be everything...

I beleive there's a place for precedents and a place for exceptions to them and in this case an exception for kiddy fiddlers is fine in my book.

I can't see anything wrong with this. Don't be so paranoid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lol, when I backed the Iraq war on here I was accused of being a right wing Sun reading warmonger. Now I'm accused of being a lefty.

What's wrong with deporting them back to Thailand to stand trial and serve out their sentances? As I said, it would make a far better detterent.

[kurgen]

At the end of the day paedophilia(?) is just a hard to spell version of sick &lt;deleted&gt;.

There are no excuses. The only cure is castration,and not that soft chemical option either.

If that fails,death should stop them.

[Abandon]

Would not like to see deporting to stand trial between countries (and extradition treaties do allow for this). Imagine you run foul of the Police here, suppose, some mafia police - if your country and Thailand were forceing people to go back to the countries where you crime was committed, it could be that Thailand could force you back here to face a trial for a crime you did not commit, especially as while you are away from the country, they could easily fabricate evidence. I like the idea that I could speak out here against corrupt authorities, and flee back home if the heat got too much.

[konangrit]

I'm not being paranoid either. UK citizens who are merely suspected of being involved in football related violence abroad can be banned from travelling overseas whilst big matches are taking place. Even if they haven't been convicted, just on police suspicion they can have their passports taken off of them. This has happened to many people who have been caught up in trouble, arrested and subsequently released without charge in several European countries.

So we go from paedophiles, to people merely suspected of football related violence, to who knows where?

[konangrit]

Would not like to see deporting to stand trial between countries (and extradition treaties do allow for this). Imagine you run foul of the Police here, suppose, some mafia police - if your country and Thailand were forceing people to go back to the countries where  you crime was committed, it could be that Thailand could force you back here to face a trial for a crime you did not commit, especially as while you are away from the country, they could easily fabricate evidence. I like the idea that I could speak out here against corrupt authorities, and flee back home if the heat got too much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair point, but we are talking about cases where the accused's home country has enough evidence to prosecute themselves. Which negates the concerns of fabricated Thai evidence.

[pedro01]

It's also the case in Britain, but I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand it's good that sick people like this man (if found guilty) can be prosecuted back in their home countries when they might have escaped prosecution in the country where they commited these heinous acts, however, it sets a dangerous precedent that you can be tried back in your home country for things you have done outside it's borders. Where will it lead? Laws being enacted to prosecute dope smokers returning from Amsterdam? May sound far fetched, but it is one step closer now than it was a few years ago.

I'd feel much more comfortable if developed nations such as the US and Europe pressured the governments in countries where this is a problem to strengthen their child sex abuse laws and to prosecute foreign paedophiles on their own soil. If US authorities have evidence to prosecute this guy then it should be handed over to the relevant Thai authorities and he should be deported back to Thailand to await trial. A long stint in a Thai prison would also be a far worse punishment than a spell in a prison of their home countries.

Infact, if there was a major crackdown with highly publicised long sentances in Thai prisons being handed out to child sex tourists then I think this would go a long way to discouraging others to do the same.

So come ont Thaksin, you must be running out of wars by now, how about a war on paedophiles?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hmmm - we are talking about pedophiles here, which is a little different from people smoking dope in Amsterdam.

This a fairly typical 'lefty' view where setting precedents seems to be everything...

I beleive there's a place for precedents and a place for exceptions to them and in this case an exception for kiddy fiddlers is fine in my book.

I can't see anything wrong with this. Don't be so paranoid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lol, when I backed the Iraq war on here I was accused of being a right wing Sun reading warmonger. Now I'm accused of being a lefty.

What's wrong with deporting them back to Thailand to stand trial and serve out their sentances? As I said, it would make a far better detterent.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That makes you a "flip-flop" doesn't it ? ;-)

[konangrit]

That makes you a "flip-flop" doesn't it ? ;-)

Because I'm concerned about human rights and civil liberties? How is backing the overthrow of a dictator responsible for mass murder and human rights abuses "flip flopping"?

[astral]

This is very dangerous territory for the law to delve into.

The age of consent in Thailand is 15, but in the US is it 18, I believe.

If the act took place in Thailand which age limit applies?

One country permits abortion another does not. Can an expectant mother be

accused of murder back home, if she goes abroad for an abortion?

This is just another example of other nations trying to impose their standards

on countries overseas, without regard to the wishes and laws of that country.

Imperialism used to be the expression for it!!

Until there is global agreement about these matters, then laws should be

restricted to the country where they are enacted.

[pedro01]

This is very dangerous territory for the law to delve into.

The age of consent in Thailand is 15, but in the US is it 18, I believe.

If the act took place in Thailand which age limit applies?

One country permits abortion another does not.  Can an expectant mother be

accused of murder back home, if she goes abroad for an abortion?

This is just another example of other nations trying to impose their standards

on countries overseas, without regard to the wishes  and laws of that country.

Imperialism used to be the expression for it!!

Until there is global agreement about these matters, then laws should be

restricted to the country where they are enacted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't talk rubbish - we are talking about prosecuting kiddy fiddlers here.

And if that means people coming here & fiddling with 15, 16,17 year olds - I'm all for that too ! There's no need for it.

Football hooligans too... Why not ?

When these laws really start to apply to stuff like traffic violations - then's the time to protest. Not now based on what 'might' happen if this is taken to extremes.

[kreon]

This is very dangerous territory for the law to delve into.

The age of consent in Thailand is 15, but in the US is it 18, I believe.

If the act took place in Thailand which age limit applies?

One country permits abortion another does not.  Can an expectant mother be

accused of murder back home, if she goes abroad for an abortion?

This is just another example of other nations trying to impose their standards

on countries overseas, without regard to the wishes  and laws of that country.

Imperialism used to be the expression for it!!

Until there is global agreement about these matters, then laws should be

restricted to the country where they are enacted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't talk rubbish - we are talking about prosecuting kiddy fiddlers here.

And if that means people coming here & fiddling with 15, 16,17 year olds - I'm all for that too ! There's no need for it.

Football hooligans too... Why not ?

When these laws really start to apply to stuff like traffic violations - then's the time to protest. Not now based on what 'might' happen if this is taken to extremes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the problem with big bro' is that they want to nose more and more in their peoples affairs

it does not matter what the crime is, drugs, sex, terrorism its the innocent souls that suffer, we talk about a majority ogf 98% here

so you want to give up your freedom for that

[PvtDick]

What makes it an abhorrent, disgusting act to have sex with someone who is 17 years and 364 days old, but jim dandy when you do it the next day? A bit artificial, isn't it?

[konangrit]

This is very dangerous territory for the law to delve into.

The age of consent in Thailand is 15, but in the US is it 18, I believe.

If the act took place in Thailand which age limit applies?

One country permits abortion another does not.  Can an expectant mother be

accused of murder back home, if she goes abroad for an abortion?

This is just another example of other nations trying to impose their standards

on countries overseas, without regard to the wishes  and laws of that country.

Imperialism used to be the expression for it!!

Until there is global agreement about these matters, then laws should be

restricted to the country where they are enacted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't talk rubbish - we are talking about prosecuting kiddy fiddlers here.

And if that means people coming here & fiddling with 15, 16,17 year olds - I'm all for that too ! There's no need for it.

Football hooligans too... Why not ?

When these laws really start to apply to stuff like traffic violations - then's the time to protest. Not now based on what 'might' happen if this is taken to extremes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about Americans who visit the UK and have sex with 16 or 17 year olds? Not commiting a crime in the UK, should they be prosecuted on return to the States?

[ovenman]

When these laws really start to apply to stuff like traffic violations - then's the time to protest. Not now based on what 'might' happen if this is taken to extremes.

The counter argument is that by the time the powers-that-be get around to applying such out-of-jurisdiction standards to traffic violations, it'll be too late to protest.

[The_Moog]

1) There has to be an Extradition Treaty. (and i'm not sure that there is one with England - the embezzler from Finance One is still hiding out in the UK)

2) Thailand would have to apply to the UK to get the suspect back.

3) UK can't just send someone back for trial if they suspect someone, unless Thai authorities want to pursue the case.

If Thailand agreed to pursue the cases, then yes, the extradition idea could work well.

[gburns57au]

I think you will find that irrespective of the age of consent in your own country, most western countries are setting laws that make it an offence to have sex with a person under the age of 16yo while in another country. This doesnt change any local laws though....if the age of consent is 18yo in the country you are in, you are still bound by the local law.

[sriracha john]

Just to keep things in perspective and to reference my OP, the man is being held without bail (a lesson for the Thai authorities in Kanchanaburi) for having sex with a 13 year old boy. Is it safe to assume that no one here at TV has a problem with pursuing this case?

I'm hoping no one does.

As in any prosecution situation, it's done on a case by case basis.

[PvtDick]

None whatsoever. I do recall, though, the case of the Kanchanaburi cop who killed two Brits -- and was released on bail TWICE.

[Boh Bpen Yang]

Pedo's are individuals who have an unnatural desire for underage sex.

Their prosecution is required in most countries.

The definition of that offense varies greatly from place to place and would cause a problem with intermingling belief systems.

Age of consent chart

The chart includes Male/Female Heterosexuality as well as Male/Male and Female/Female Homosexuality.

The ages can be as low 12 years old in some countries. In the USA the Age of consent can be as low as 14 for male heterosexual activity and 16 for female heterosexual activity. In many places homosexuality is not legal. The average age worldwide is 16 for all types of sexual activity.

I can not vouch for this sites integrity nor content.

[The_Moog]

If you want to follow and document the case here, that's very readable, though I don't think there will be a whole lot of activity.

But these things so often descend into meaningless 'cut 'is nuts off' rhetoric.

When I once visited an unrepentant drug smuggler in Prison in Kathmandu, he told me that they all enjoyed it when an accused paedophile came in, as they could all beat him up. It made them feel that there was someone lower in the pecking order than themselves and improved their self-esteem.

[Tarragona]

I'm not being paranoid either. UK citizens who are merely suspected of being involved in football related violence abroad can be banned from travelling overseas whilst big matches are taking place. Even if they haven't been convicted, just on police suspicion they can have their passports taken off of them. This has happened to many people who have been caught up in trouble, arrested and subsequently released without charge in several European countries.

So we go from paedophiles, to people merely suspected of football related violence, to who knows where?

I would honestly doubt that many people are unfairly banned. One reason they are released without charge is that other countries want them out as quickly as possible. It's actually not that hard to steer clear of football violence if you want to. There are a lot of hangers-on who might just be around the edges but if they are identified and banned that's their own fault.

From the hooligans to the paedophiles, if there is a serious problem then serious measures should be used to stop them damaging the lives of other people.

[astral]

I think you will find that irrespective of the age of consent in your own country, most western countries are setting laws that make it an offence to have sex with a person under the age of 16yo while in another country. This doesnt change any local laws though....if the age of consent is 18yo in the country you are in, you are still bound by the local law.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But not Vice Versa!!!

That chart of Age of Consent shows what a mockery this whole thing is.

An American tourist is limited to 18, but a US soldier can have sex at 16....

Local laws should apply!!