Redshirt Protesters Force Immigration Bureau HQ To Close

[johndpoole]

Maybe I am naive but do those calling on the gov't to restore order and jail Reds really yellow shirts? I am very against what the yellows did at the airport but that is over and now is now. The law should have been enforced then as it should be now and until the gov't acts on these folks who take the law into their own hands this BS will never stop.

I am very much against the Reds but I am by no means a supporter of the Yellows. I believe all the poor people of Thailand should have the ability to make a good living and be provided the basic things (shelter, food, medical ...) but this is no easy feat and takes time. I believe both Thaksin (previously) and the current government are moving towards doing this. Folks, even in the US people are not afforded these things. When it comes to medical especially, the poor in Thailand have it much better off than those poor or lower middle class in the USA.

However, I am against Thaksin though he did many good things he did many bad that cannot be tolerated. Forget the corruption but this guy approved and encouraged thousands of summary executions of Thai citizens. Not to mention he was clearly getting out of control and behaving as a dictator. This is not democracy and neither is bowing to the demands of one party because they have decided to inflict pain on a country and its people.

Anyway, just curious if those opposing the Reds here are really supporters of the Yellows and condone this kind of behavior by the reds (or any color) if you believe the political complaint is just.

Edited April 5, 2010 by johndpoole

[Jonathanpattaya]

On BBC World right now.

Four weeks later and probably raising the stakes.

Something will snap soon.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Jonathanpattaya

[rainman]

What would stop all this is the government enforcing the law regardless if it is red, yellow or blue shirts and regardless as to their cause. Peaceful demonstrations without threats and working with officials to minimize the impact on other citizens should always be encouraged but what we have now are law breakers who are going out of there way to break laws and provoke a response.

This nonsense doesn't happing in other places (rarely) because people know they cannot get away with it.

You see ...that works if a government is elected by the people. Not when the government that is elected by the people is overthrown in an army coup and then when enough members of parliament of the winning team are disqualified, a new government is installed. Naturally, the people will get angry and you get what is happening now.

[geriatrickid]

While this is military backed or liked government, this is not a military government!

there is a huge difference between the 2.

Are there any generals in the current gov who are ministers?

Is current PM a an officer in the army? or an ex officer?

Its all well and good to sit there and point fingers with vivid imagination, but facts are facts

PM Abhisit's father is a former high ranking military man with strong connections. The man who calls he shots, Prem calls himself General Prem, is the boss of the privy council. The Minister of defense is an active army general, Minister of Technology is airforce rank I think and several cabinet members have close affiliations to the military. do you wish to hang your head in shame now?

My computer crashed and I dont know if the reply was sent. The people of Bangkok have had enough of the Red Shirts closing down traffic, Siam Centre and now Immigration Offices. I say get the batons or tear gas out.

May I refer you to another thread posted earlier today on this forum in which the Finance Minister was reported as calling for the same response you are advocating? Some, including me, saw that as a direct challenge to the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister (and their backers). The truth is my friend, that if the Finance Minister got his way Khum Abhisit will have lost control. I suspect that, being a politician, The prime Minister is counting his supporters. If the numbers are not in his favour he should call a snap election and invite the country to back him or sack him.

I made the same observation. Any deviation from the PM's strategy is a knife in the back to Abhisit. If people have any sanity or commonsense on this board they had better stop hoping for the PM's demise or fall. The next government will be a shocker.

If somef the blowhards in Thai Visa want peace, then they need to let Abhisit do what he is doing and stop heaping abuse. none of the so called experts in here has any clue as to the behind the scenes negotiations or ongoing struggle.

[johndpoole]

Would anybody feel it was not a violent act if a group of people forced their way into your home?

Does anybody really believe that using intimidation against the EC is democratic. Not just the intimidation today to demand an answer by the 20th (which I understand they already said they would do a week ago) but also stating they would be back in force on the 20th for the decision.

Does anybody think it is right to have a group be told by the police the can protest peacefully but must not do it in these 11 places (for the well being of citizens, the city and country) and then have the group (mob) announce that they will be marching on those 11 places?

How can anybody condone a group whose leaders make these kinds of speeches ...

Yes, these clearly are the people Thailand needs to help move the country forward and out of the hole they are putting the country in.

[denissr]

These iddiots are going to far it is time they were charged and arrested. This is getting rediculous. i have no problem with rallies, even sit ins to a certain extent but disruption of the country is going to far how is cowtowing to a few tens of thousands of radical terrorist protesters democracy ot of a country of 60 some million.

The government also ought to charge Mr. T with sedition, terrorism and conspiracy and put out an international warrent for his arrest with interpol and any and all other international police organizations.

It looks as if you like the way democracy works, as long as it doesn't affect your circles. But would you like Thailand to be like Burma. Or are you just another angry american..?

With all the anger, hostility and violence in American politics now we are no longer a great example for democracy. Who said “In a democracy, you get the Government you deserve”.

[chadillac0]

well said johndpoole...... however, TIT and I don't think that those guys riding around on the streets are even sure WHAT the hel_l they want... sad state of affairs in Thailand

[johndpoole]

What would stop all this is the government enforcing the law regardless if it is red, yellow or blue shirts and regardless as to their cause. Peaceful demonstrations without threats and working with officials to minimize the impact on other citizens should always be encouraged but what we have now are law breakers who are going out of there way to break laws and provoke a response.

This nonsense doesn't happing in other places (rarely) because people know they cannot get away with it.

You see ...that works if a government is elected by the people. Not when the government that is elected by the people is overthrown in an army coup and then when enough members of parliament of the winning team are disqualified, a new government is installed. Naturally, the people will get angry and you get what is happening now.

Sorry but the current PM is the legal leader of this country and all of this has played out in the courts where the Reds had every opportunity to build a case. Everything was done according to law and one part the Reds are doing is (be it in a wrong way) are trying to use these same laws again to gain back power.

A very good example is Bush in 2000 when the Supreme Court by conservative (Bush party) members made a ruling that caused Bush to be president in an election where he did not receive the most votes by the people and when electoral votes were in disputer and in the process of being recounted. This didn't stop the government from enforcing laws when protesters veered from the law.

If this is such a military backed and run government that people keep claiming then certainly this would not be going on and they would have quelled this unrest sooner. And not negotiated and agreed to hold elections a year early.

[TallForeigner]

Even though the police forces or army breaks up the red shirt protests ...the problem won't go away. We've seen the police and army break up last year's protests, but the problem didn't go away, did it? If the Abhisit government believes it is backed by the majority of Thais, it should call for an election to settle the doubts once and for all. But the problem won't go away simply by telling protesters to shut up and break up their protests. They'll be back and the longer this goes on, the worse for Thailand.

Yes, and Obama should call for elections too as Bush should have in 2000 to quiet law breakers who believe they should not be in office or can't win on any particular day. This is what a democratic society does rather than wait until the next election and hope your part wins. Remember, it was the supreme court ruling that ultimately put Bush in office regardless that he DID NOT get the most votes and regardless that they were in the midst of trying to discover if he won enough electoral votes.

And while we are at it ... we should tax although the wealthy folks until the poor have the same amount of money they do regardless if the wealthy earned the money and what they sacrificed to get where they are or how many people they have employed and helped to better their lives too.

And next year when the next mob comes to town, lets do it all over again.

What would stop all this is the government enforcing the law regardless if it is red, yellow or blue shirts and regardless as to their cause. Peaceful demonstrations without threats and working with officials to minimize the impact on other citizens should always be encouraged but what we have now are law breakers who are going out of there way to break laws and provoke a response.

This nonsense doesn't happing in other places (rarely) because people know they cannot get away with it.

Another guy with a strange view of the real world...

First of all citing the USA with Bush is certainly the worst example to cite about how a real democracy should work.

Second, instead of being happy that so far major bloodshed could be prevented and thinking about real solutions about how to solve the crisis peacefully our superdemocrat knows nothing better than "enforcing the law". In your simple eyes this certainly means violence by police and/or army...

If you haven't realised that it is far too late to solve this crisis with the Thai army/police then I feel sorry for you. I just hope that the Thai government shows enough wisdom to prevent the bloodshed of poor Thai families.

[OzMick]

What would stop all this is the government enforcing the law regardless if it is red, yellow or blue shirts and regardless as to their cause. Peaceful demonstrations without threats and working with officials to minimize the impact on other citizens should always be encouraged but what we have now are law breakers who are going out of there way to break laws and provoke a response.

This nonsense doesn't happing in other places (rarely) because people know they cannot get away with it.

You see ...that works if a government is elected by the people. Not when the government that is elected by the people is overthrown in an army coup and then when enough members of parliament of the winning team are disqualified, a new government is installed. Naturally, the people will get angry and you get what is happening now.

I must say Rainman, that your recollection of history is fantastic; and I mean literally fantastic. I can hear the little guy calling "The plane, the plane!"

Edited April 5, 2010 by OzMick

[LuckyFive8888]

Yes, the yellow leaders who laid siege to the airport should go to jail. As should the red leaders for wanting to blow shit up, giving out addresses, etc.

just as thaksin should go to jail.

[grandpops]

To ozzie man 05

According to the Thai wife

when the army was in power you are right

It was peaceful

no one was oppressive to her, her family or friends

and every day she was allowed to go to work, make money, and go shopping

what else does she really want. you must be aggreeing with herl

What elitist claptrap. So sorry that your wife and her lovely friends can't make money and go shopping. Boo bloody hoo. Most of the north of the country have never been able to do either of these.

So sorry that all the businesses and banks in the beautiful corruption free city of Bangkok chose to fund and support the Chaos when it was their middle class buddies and PAD allies causing it.

Reap what you sow mate, reap what you so.

Must be almost as agonising for your wife to go without new shoes for songkran as for generations of Northern farmers to live in hovels and farm rice.

[johndpoole]

Even though the police forces or army breaks up the red shirt protests ...the problem won't go away. We've seen the police and army break up last year's protests, but the problem didn't go away, did it? If the Abhisit government believes it is backed by the majority of Thais, it should call for an election to settle the doubts once and for all. But the problem won't go away simply by telling protesters to shut up and break up their protests. They'll be back and the longer this goes on, the worse for Thailand.

Yes, and Obama should call for elections too as Bush should have in 2000 to quiet law breakers who believe they should not be in office or can't win on any particular day. This is what a democratic society does rather than wait until the next election and hope your part wins. Remember, it was the supreme court ruling that ultimately put Bush in office regardless that he DID NOT get the most votes and regardless that they were in the midst of trying to discover if he won enough electoral votes.

And while we are at it ... we should tax although the wealthy folks until the poor have the same amount of money they do regardless if the wealthy earned the money and what they sacrificed to get where they are or how many people they have employed and helped to better their lives too.

And next year when the next mob comes to town, lets do it all over again.

What would stop all this is the government enforcing the law regardless if it is red, yellow or blue shirts and regardless as to their cause. Peaceful demonstrations without threats and working with officials to minimize the impact on other citizens should always be encouraged but what we have now are law breakers who are going out of there way to break laws and provoke a response.

This nonsense doesn't happing in other places (rarely) because people know they cannot get away with it.

Another guy with a strange view of the real world...

First of all citing the USA with Bush is certainly the worst example to cite about how a real democracy should work.

Second, instead of being happy that so far major bloodshed could be prevented and thinking about real solutions about how to solve the crisis peacefully our superdemocrat knows nothing better than "enforcing the law". In your simple eyes this certainly means violence by police and/or army...

If you haven't realised that it is far too late to solve this crisis with the Thai army/police then I feel sorry for you. I just hope that the Thai government shows enough wisdom to prevent the bloodshed of poor Thai families.

The current crisis is the mob and bombs going off in Bangkok. The current crisis needs to be resolved by having the police, and military if needed, enforce the law. It is completely up to those in the mob if the mob if the police will need to use force.

And hopefully Thailand has laws that will allow the parents to be jailed for a very long time for continuing to allow their kids to be part of such a threatening mob after the police have repeatedly warned them in writing (mob tore them up) and verbally that they are in violation of the law and that the law will be enforced ... at some point.

The 2000 elections in the US are a perfect example because there was not only the court order that ultimately resulted in declaring Bush the winner but there was also wide spread election fraud going on in varies precincts. After the court made its decision Bush's rival accepted defeat and ratified the elections and Bush as president.

To this day MANY people say Bush didn't actually win but they accepted that they would have to wait for the next elections because the laws of democracy played out as they have in Thailand. Fair or not that is fact.

Many people protested very focally over Bush's so-called victory but no mobs took to the streets without consequence and those who did break the law were arrested. Same is true when it came to the VERY unjust war against Iraq. Many people peacefully broke the law and accepted they would be arrested and went peacefully (passive resistance) while other marched and rallied but did so under the law which includes getting permission to hold such protests as well as working with officials to minimize the impact on locals.

[ratcatcher]

Americans in Thailand are divided like everyone else. Some pro red/Thaksin. Some anti red/Thaksin. Bringing US bashing into this topic (which I suppose the red mob has done with their embassy actions) is just idiotic and a meaningless diversion.

The Reds went to the U.S.Embassy to show how peaceful and reasonable they are.

I can imagine the screaming from Auntie Hillary if Abhisit had ordered water cannons and tear gas a week ago.

And Thaksin would have been yelling blue bloody murder.

Abhisit's calmly allowing the Red Shirts maximum rope with which to hang themselves while entertaining Uncle Hun in Hua Hin..

[jitenshaman]

Maybe I am naive but do those calling on the gov't to restore order and jail Reds really yellow shirts? I am very against what the yellows did at the airport but that is over and now is now. The law should have been enforced then as it should be now and until the gov't acts on these folks who take the law into their own hands this BS will never stop.

I am very much against the Reds but I am by no means a supporter of the Yellows. I believe all the poor people of Thailand should have the ability to make a good living and be provided the basic things (shelter, food, medical ...) but this is no easy feat and takes time. I believe both Thaksin (previously) and the current government are moving towards doing this. Folks, even in the US people are not afforded these things. When it comes to medical especially, the poor in Thailand have it much better off than those poor or lower middle class in the USA.

However, I am against Thaksin though he did many good things he did many bad that cannot be tolerated. Forget the corruption but this guy approved and encouraged thousands of summary executions of Thai citizens. Not to mention he was clearly getting out of control and behaving as a dictator. This is not democracy and neither is bowing to the demands of one party because they have decided to inflict pain on a country and its people.

Anyway, just curious if those opposing the Reds here are really supporters of the Yellows and condone this kind of behavior by the reds (or any color) if you believe the political complaint is just.

very very sensible post, you are to be commended. While i would tend to support most movements by the "poor" asking for "democracy" and am against any kind of military dictatorship, the entire Red Shirt charade just completely fails 100% since it is all about Thaksin who is a thug butcher and is as far away from democracy and understanding poverty as anyone could get.

[LevelHead]

The current crisis is the mob and bombs going off in Bangkok. The current crisis needs to be resolved by having the police, and military if needed, enforce the law. It is completely up to those in the mob if the mob if the police will need to use force.

And hopefully Thailand has laws that will allow the parents to be jailed for a very long time for continuing to allow their kids to be part of such a threatening mob after the police have repeatedly warned them in writing (mob tore them up) and verbally that they are in violation of the law and that the law will be enforced ... at some point.

The 2000 elections in the US are a perfect example because there was not only the court order that ultimately resulted in declaring Bush the winner but there was also wide spread election fraud going on in varies precincts. After the court made its decision Bush's rival accepted defeat and ratified the elections and Bush as president.

To this day MANY people say Bush didn't actually win but they accepted that they would have to wait for the next elections because the laws of democracy played out as they have in Thailand. Fair or not that is fact.

Many people protested very focally over Bush's so-called victory but no mobs took to the streets without consequence and those who did break the law were arrested. Same is true when it came to the VERY unjust war against Iraq. Many people peacefully broke the law and accepted they would be arrested and went peacefully (passive resistance) while other marched and rallied but did so under the law which includes getting permission to hold such protests as well as working with officials to minimize the impact on locals.

Spoken like a true "not in Bangkok" person.

The issue here goes back to the coup.

The coup was illegal. Under the 1997 constituion anyone holding a coup is punishable of the offence of treason and should be executed. That was the rule of law of Thailand.

But of course, once the coup happened they ripped up the 1997 constitution and gave themselves "immunity" for all past actions.

Double standards here ?

Then of course many events happened, including the appointing by the coup government of a new Election Commission, new top Judiciary, new Assets Examination Committee.

Funny as it is, those organisation with people appointed by the coup leaders have found Thaksin, TRT, PPP etc... guilty of many things, but always find the Democrats "not guilty". Funny old world.

Now they had an election and even with the coup appointed organisations making things extremely difficult for PPP, the PPP won the election.

Now the Yellows hated that Democracy had won and the people had chosed the PPP so they swarmed the streets making up all sorts of stories still bieng told today.

The Yellows got their way as the Judiciary then dissolved the PPP and the some behind the scenes wrangling by the "elite" came up with a new party (BJT) who jumped into bed with the Democrats.

So the government now may be legitimate in the eyes of the law, but it is a NON ELECTED government, as the people did not vote for them.

So today, Reds are on the streets demanding Democracy be returned to them. They can have their vote returned to them. The courts and the elite can no longer throw their votes into the bin and annoint who they want as opposed to the party elected by the people.

The support for the Reds is growing daily, and its this strong support that is stopping the violence being unleashed on them.

So all you, "not in Bangkok" people. Perhaps you should read properly into events, and not just read the nonsense at times spouted by "un-named" sources in the BP and TN newspapers.

Please come to Bangkok and speak to the people.

[johndpoole]

Interesting thing is that in most civilized countries when somebody is breaking the law and hurting others to make their point, nobody cares about their point because they just want them not to hurt others and be held accountable for their actions. Being right doesn't make illegal actions just, especially when there are other avenues available.

Clearly the Muslims have legit gripes with the USA and just causes that need to be heard but here we are almost a decade after 9-11 and few really care about their gripes because of what some of their group did on 9-11.

Sadly, if the Reds actually care about the poor up North their message is getting lost because of their actions. The could have easily walked away from the talks with the PM as winners but chose not to. Not only were they at one point elevated in recognition by having the PM sit down with them but he also agreed to hold elections and house dissolution in 9-months .. a year early.

Instead they continue to cling to 15 days (which has already passed) as if this number has some significance beyond just being irrational and unrealistic.

It is clear the Reds have no agenda for their people or those of Thailand and are simply trying their best to cause a confrontation and have the gov't respond with force. Again this is sad because it will not result in pitty for them or disdain with the current government because the gov't is already being viewed as being too patient and people want an end to this unruly mob occupying the streets of Bangkok.

The majority of Red followers still here are also sadly uneducated people easily led (many w/the help of money) who will do what ever there leaders tell them to do and don't see they are being used as pawns or lambs being led to a slaughter.

[webfact]

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Thai 'Red Shirts' Pledge More Protests After Court Ruling

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Red-Shi...ts-t353463.html

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