Scam On My Rental Contract

[lancerine134]

I worked in Bangkok and moved to a new condo nearby BTS Ratchathewi on 13 February 2009 - a nice 2 bedrooms apartment for 43K a month.

Just like a nice condo they have this spacious marketing office in the ground floor with only one agent to contact (since his English is good). I gave 1 month rent and 2 months security deposit.On the contract made on 2 versions, it says that I should stay at least 6 months, and when I want to get back the 2 months deposit I should give 1 month notice to the landlord. All communications were only made between me and the agent - I don't even have the contact of the landlord.

During my stay nothing was ruined, extra cleaning (twice) was done before I left the apartment. I paid all my bills and close the cable/internet accounts so that the landlord will not find any difficulties or outstanding bills in the future. In short - I don't want the landlord to find any excuse NOT to give back my 2 months deposit.

End of July, my agent told me that I should leave Bangkok. I paid all the rents and gave the notification early. Silly me, I trusted him so well - I gave all the keys and I let him get the landlord to pay back my 2 months deposit because it is his responsibility. He said that I have fulfill all my obligations so he will get the money to me within a month, can't give it right away since the landlord is not that easy to be reached. I then flew back to my country, convinced that he would do so.

Weeks have passed, I found it very difficult to contact him, even sms was not replied, suddenly he picked up my phone and said the landlord only wants to give me back 1 month deposit. I was upset - but I told him that he should convince the landlord because he knows that I am RIGHT by contract. He said he will get back to me later.

Luckily I still have the softcopy of the contract so I asked my Thai friend to read it. Surprisingly - the Thai version and the English version ARE NOT SAYING THE SAME THING! The English version says that I should give 1 month notice and the other says 2 month notice - and guess what, the Thai version is the one's official. I do not know if this is only a typo or was done on purpose. Either way if he has good intention then he should have returned my money.

Suddenly after that call, sending email, sms, and calling don't work anymore, he just vanished. I mailed him that I notice there is something wrong in the contract and that I want to talk to the landlord directly. He didn't reply, even after I told him in the email that I would accept only 1 month deposit like the landlord wants.

I escalated/email his agency. No reply. I contacted them again, they blocked my email! (I know this because I tried sending from another email and it worked). With the help of a Thai friend (and a lawyer) after FIVE MONTHS I get 36K THB back out of 86K THB (many thanks to her). Landlord gave me 1 month rent, deducted by this and that like I didn't give back the key, AC service, etc which are not true.So in total they stole 50K THB. That's a lot!!!!

I cannot accept being treated so unfairly with no courtesy at all. What are those - blocking email, ignoring emails/phone calls/sms, STEALING - I mean they are a big agency for a big expensive apartment! But it happened. They got me. Turned out that the warning my expat friends told me were true when I first arrived in Bangkok: most of the times you'll never get your deposit back. Silly me - I am a person who believed in the good in humanity and here I am, telling you this. This kind of people should be ashamed of making Thailand looks bad.

I hope no one will experience it in the future. Be careful of the smooth-talking agents and do translate the Thai contract before you sign it.

Cheers

[zthyadat]

Unfortunately, this is a really common occurrence. There seems to be a mentality that once your deposit money is in the landlord's bank account, they feel like it is theirs and if they give any of it back to you it is a gift - and a painful for one for them at that.

Mind you, it may have been the agency that ripped you off - this belief that it is perfectly okay to cheat people out of money if you can get away with it is and probably always has been far too prevalent in Thailand.

It isn't surprising when you consider that most of the elite make their money from playing on a very unlevel field, and police and politicians just take whatever they can get their hands on.

With a long-standing system like that in place (for centuries), people all the way down the chain see no reason why they shouldn't get a piece of the action. And while foreigners who are out of the country may be easier to cheat, it also happens to Thais, so it isn't a racial thing - simply a matter of opportunity.

Not that contracts do any good unless you are willing to spend the time, money and heartache to fight in court, but it is true that where there are two languages involved in a contract, the Thai one shall be deemed as the accurate one. You could still sue in civil court for being deliberately misled, but that may not work out favourably.

It is essential that any Thai contract be read over by someone you trust who understands Thai - and in fact, you can even have the English version notarized (at your expense of course), stating that its terms are identical to the Thai one - then they have no wiggle room and you can sue and win.

[rgs2001uk]

I doubt very much if the landlord is even aware of what has happened.

I have heard of cases where the contract the landlord had was totally different to the one the renter had, both issued by the same agent.

Not known as the Land Of Scams for nothing.

"I do not know if this is only a typo or was done on purpose. Either way if he has good intention then he should have returned my money"

My money is on it was done on purpose, rip off the farang buffalo, the agent has no morals or scrupples and therefore no good intention, you will never see your money again.

Forget about it and move on, not the first and wont be the last to be ripped off by agents.

[surayu]

Yes really common indeed, i had many trying to even change the numbers on them, as i wouldn't notice, then one time, after i translated their thai contract in english, they swapped the original thai version with a different one, claiming (once i spotted the differences between the 2 forms) that the one they gaved me earlier was an old template and this was an identical newer version (....NOT) , when i say that i would then take a copy to getting translated before i would sign, the old version contract *magically* appeared again from the drawer but we didn't conclude anything anyway because their numbers moltiplicated under their handwriting, i finally got scammed for 10.000 baht from an american man in charge of one of the biggest expat business broker which was sponsoring probably the biggest expat community forum in Thailand, what can you do? bad people hides everywhere, don't trust anyone....

[BWPattaya]

I rented a room from a German once. He deducted 8,000 Bt from my deposit to pay for repainting the room. It didn't need painting, and would have cost a fraction of this if he had done it - which he didn't. It isnt always Thais operating the scams.

[olsen]

TIT - This Is Thailand...<BR>But strange enough I've only experienced this in the major tourist areas where I've lived in my 13 yeas in this wonderful country.<BR>5 years in Pattay I was ripped off my deposits several times.<BR>4 years in Phuket same same...<BR>Now I've lived 4 years in Khanom and Sichon on the mainland opposite Koh Samui.<BR>Here I've never experiened this! Deposits are paid back immeditately!<BR>Seems the major tourists spots attracts the greedy and dishonest Thai people! <IMG class=bbc_emoticon alt= src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/angry.gif">

[BillR]

the security deposit is always used as the last two months rent, I do not care what the contract says, you never ever get that money back. If they would have given you a problem with that, I would of beat around the bush about not having the money but its coming etc. and then just f$%ked off, leaving the place in the same condition it was originally rented in.

[Monokuro]

I'd just like to chip in and say this isn't always true. Both the places I have rented in BKK, I got back my full deposit when I left.

The last one even removed the "cleaning fee" from my final bill as I had been unaware of this, and already cleaned everything myself

[fcgprg]

You should have used the deposit as the final 2 months rent .

[aussiebebe]

You should have used the deposit as the final 2 months rent .

Yup, the OP will know for next time, renting in LOS is like the concept from the movie 'The Matrix': 'Everyone falls on the first jump'. Most Thai's I know say they never pay the final month and expect to loose half of their deposit (2 months). Trouble is, some landlords can turn nasty and cut electricity.

The idea to translate the contract is very good. I earn no-where near enough to even dream of renting a 43k place, but a 300baht per page translation cost seems prudent.

When you consider that in Britain, for example, deposits are now held by the letting agent and protected by a government-backed Tenancy Deposit scheme, it puts into perspective just how undeveloped the Thai system is. Abuse is inevitable. The idea someone wrote to have the English version notarized deserves special mention, it's very clever and inventive, just make sure to go to the best, most reputable lawyer you can find.

[Livinginexile]

Unfortunately, this is a really common occurrence. There seems to be a mentality that once your deposit money is in the landlord's bank account, they feel like it is theirs and if they give any of it back to you it is a gift - and a painful for one for them at that.

Mind you, it may have been the agency that ripped you off - this belief that it is perfectly okay to cheat people out of money if you can get away with it is and probably always has been far too prevalent in Thailand.

It isn't surprising when you consider that most of the elite make their money from playing on a very unlevel field, and police and politicians just take whatever they can get their hands on.

With a long-standing system like that in place (for centuries), people all the way down the chain see no reason why they shouldn't get a piece of the action. And while foreigners who are out of the country may be easier to cheat, it also happens to Thais, so it isn't a racial thing - simply a matter of opportunity.

Not that contracts do any good unless you are willing to spend the time, money and heartache to fight in court, but it is true that where there are two languages involved in a contract, the Thai one shall be deemed as the accurate one. You could still sue in civil court for being deliberately misled, but that may not work out favourably.

It is essential that any Thai contract be read over by someone you trust who understands Thai - and in fact, you can even have the English version notarized (at your expense of course), stating that its terms are identical to the Thai one - then they have no wiggle room and you can sue and win.

Boy what a spot on post!

It would have taken me pages to articulate what you put in a few lines.

Good post, absolutely spot on!

It should be incluced in the "I want to live in Thailand" handbook.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Livinginexile

[yabaaaa]

the security deposit is always used as the last two months rent, I do not care what the contract says, you never ever get that money back. If they would have given you a problem with that, I would of beat around the bush about not having the money but its coming etc. and then just f$%ked off, leaving the place in the same condition it was originally rented in.

It isnt and if you did that in one of my rooms you'd be paying more for late payment and if u refused Id get you chucked out.

[yabaaaa]

I'd just like to chip in and say this isn't always true. Both the places I have rented in BKK, I got back my full deposit when I left.

The last one even removed the "cleaning fee" from my final bill as I had been unaware of this, and already cleaned everything myself

In 4 years as an owner and numerous customers I have only once withheld a deposit for someone who was filthy. new tenants often say they are the cleanest person ever, it usually turns out to be a crock!!

[Kf6vci]

Well, I would try this. give a few brown banknotes and agree on a flat rate fee with your lawyer. have her enlist the help of the BIB. A Thai settlement of sorts is likely, with you getting maybe another 20 k.

Many LLs are having vacancies for years so they milk a paying tenant to the max.

They have your money - now you can whistle for it, from abroad, above all. But neither the PM nor the owner (who indeed may n o t be part of this scheme) will like having the BIB involved. Loss of face, staff gossiping. no one likes Police descending on their office and then question one!

Be pragmatic - it's unfair but better than shadow boxing.

[thaiwanderer]

You now (rather than entering the contract?????) find out the Thai version has precedenece and says something different than the English version.

On the basis of what you've said I'm afraid its entirely your own fault and I don't see where at all a 'scam' comes into it?

[bjohn34]

You now (rather than entering the contract?????) find out the Thai version has precedenece and says something different than the English version.

On the basis of what you've said I'm afraid its entirely your own fault and I don't see where at all a 'scam' comes into it?

What he said!!! If you sign a foreign language legal contract without having it translated, you deserve what you get.