Anti-Thai Govt 'Red Power' Mag Stranded On Cambodian Border

[philw]

Give up - and get a life!

Do you really deny people the right to express themselves in writing ??

The only things that can be said are what you approve ??

Is this your case ?

That is exactly the line the reds have. They have clearly stated that they are not interested in democracy or free speech. Typical red double standard then to claim it for themselves now. Som nam na.

Rubbish

[philw]

As the magazine has been shut down I assume the publisher has been charged with a criminal offences and now out on bail.

This incident will probably land him back in jail.

We all have to work within the framework of the "Rule Of Law" otherwise there can be no "Normalicy" in Thailand.

If I am not mistaken, it was shutdown, in part, due to not having a license to manufacture a magazine at the facility where they were. So that, in and of itself, is enough to close it down and it is within the rule of law. Perfectly normal. Of course, there was also the political issues. But the first trumps the second.

I would gladly do a "border run" for them and bring in a few copies on their behalf to accelerate the socio-economic evolution of these backwaters of the world

Unlikely for a friendly farang to checked... but I wonder what would happen to me if I did get stopped & searched...

Exactly the same thing as would have happened if an American immigration officer had found you with an American equivalent of the publication in question. He and his superior would have refused you entry and sent you back - as is their authority to do

In the US or pretty much any other country in the world. Try visiting Tibet wearing a "Free Tibet" t-shirt. I guarantee you will have a very hard time. This magazine will hardly advance the socio-economic evolution of Thailand...if nothing else, push it backwards...

I would like to hear your views on "Irrawady " magazine.

And I am NOT equating the red rag with Irrawady.

Philw

Edited October 29, 2010 by philw

[craigt3365]

I would like to hear your views on "Irrawady " magazine.

And I am NOT equating the red rag with Irrawady.

Philw

I'm not familiar with that magazine. I am guessing it is Burma??? I will try and look it up...but Burma is a mess for sure...

[OzMick]

I would gladly do a "border run" for them and bring in a few copies on their behalf to accelerate the socio-economic evolution of these backwaters of the world

Unlikely for a friendly farang to checked... but I wonder what would happen to me if I did get stopped & searched...

Exactly the same thing as would have happened if an American immigration officer had found you with an American equivalent of the publication in question. He and his superior would have refused you entry and sent you back - as is their authority to do

And likely you would have a computer note against your name refusing you further entry. wouldn't that be fun!

[Thai at Heart]

Is there no offence in the country to incite violence or riot?

If this was a crime, trying to make the charges of terrorism stick wouldn't be needed. Of course, this would have to be applied to all sides of the argument equally. Inciting groups to go around town breaking laws, would be illegal.

Any government can hide behind this perfectly reasonable law, and it can be applied to all types of media.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[bulmercke]

What a sad indictment of Thailand. Red Power magazine is one of the few publications in Thailand that doesn't tow the government line.

No surprises then that it falls victim to government harassment and intimidation.

Speaks volumes about freedom of speech in Thailand and more so freedom of the press here.

[Thai at Heart]

What a sad indictment of Thailand. Red Power magazine is one of the few publications in Thailand that doesn't tow the government line.

No surprises then that it falls victim to government harassment and intimidation.

Speaks volumes about freedom of speech in Thailand and more so freedom of the press here.

I personally haven't read it. But have seen some of the images that it portrays.

Forget lese majeste or incitement to violence, whoever prints it will end up with libel cases of gazillions of baht, and probably 1,625,000 years in jail.

For me if it doesn't incite violence, (which I understand it has), it should be allowed, lies or not. If the institutions and people cannot defend themselves against the accusations, that is their problem. Lese majeste is a very big issue in Thailand, and there is no reason for any publication to stray into this area if it is simply making political comment.

However, for a country like Thailand where the libel laws are so ludicrously powerful, I am amazed it has remained in print even this long.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[gregb]

True, the riots and violence were unacceptable (My wife's sister lost her mobile phone shop in center one when it was burnt down). But for how long do you use that violence carried out by a minority, as a reason for persecuting the majority. 6 months, 1 year, 2 years, 10 years??

Quite simply, until the majority vocally denounce and actively distance themselves from this "minority" who are causing violence. If it takes 10 years for any peaceful reds to denounce Thaksin and his band of terrorists, then yes, 10 years it is.

I am surprised people can't understand this simple concept.

And I reject your characterization of what is happening as "persecution". It is a simple act of trying to prevent a group who has ill intentions towards the country from inciting further hatred and violence. That is not free speech, nor should it be protected. Nobody would object to nor try and stop a red movement that distanced itself from Thaksin and other violent extremists.

But until I hear the reds denounce it, I don't believe in this majority that you claim (without any evidence) exists. From what I have seen, the majority all support the violence. Right or wrong, that is the impression you give when you don't denounce terrorism.

[chantorn]

What a sad indictment of Thailand. Red Power magazine is one of the few publications in Thailand that doesn't tow the government line.

No surprises then that it falls victim to government harassment and intimidation.

Speaks volumes about freedom of speech in Thailand and more so freedom of the press here.

I personally haven't read it. But have seen some of the images that it portrays.

Forget lese majeste or incitement to violence, whoever prints it will end up with libel cases of gazillions of baht, and probably 1,625,000 years in jail.

For me if it doesn't incite violence, (which I understand it has), it should be allowed, lies or not. If the institutions and people cannot defend themselves against the accusations, that is their problem. Lese majeste is a very big issue in Thailand, and there is no reason for any publication to stray into this area if it is simply making political comment.

However, for a country like Thailand where the libel laws are so ludicrously powerful, I am amazed it has remained in print even this long.

About Lese majeste, is it a real threat, or is it what Army/CRES/DSI is leading us to believe?

[bulmercke]

I would gladly do a "border run" for them and bring in a few copies on their behalf to accelerate the socio-economic evolution of these backwaters of the world

Unlikely for a friendly farang to checked... but I wonder what would happen to me if I did get stopped & searched...

Exactly the same thing as would have happened if an American immigration officer had found you with an American equivalent of the publication in question. He and his superior would have refused you entry and sent you back - as is their authority to do

And likely you would have a computer note against your name refusing you further entry. wouldn't that be fun!

OzMick - sounds like you're either paranoid or are fantasizing.

[hanuman1]

What a sad indictment of Thailand. Red Power magazine is one of the few publications in Thailand that doesn't tow the government line.

No surprises then that it falls victim to government harassment and intimidation.

Speaks volumes about freedom of speech in Thailand and more so freedom of the press here.

I personally haven't read it. But have seen some of the images that it portrays.

Forget lese majeste or incitement to violence, whoever prints it will end up with libel cases of gazillions of baht, and probably 1,625,000 years in jail.

For me if it doesn't incite violence, (which I understand it has), it should be allowed, lies or not. If the institutions and people cannot defend themselves against the accusations, that is their problem. Lese majeste is a very big issue in Thailand, and there is no reason for any publication to stray into this area if it is simply making political comment.

However, for a country like Thailand where the libel laws are so ludicrously powerful, I am amazed it has remained in print even this long.

About Lese majeste, is it a real threat, or is it what Army/CRES/DSI is leading us to believe?

Can someone purporting to be Thai really come out with a question like that? Really Mr Chantorn, you're letting your mask slip bigtime now.

Edited October 29, 2010 by hanuman1

[Thai at Heart]

What a sad indictment of Thailand. Red Power magazine is one of the few publications in Thailand that doesn't tow the government line.

No surprises then that it falls victim to government harassment and intimidation.

Speaks volumes about freedom of speech in Thailand and more so freedom of the press here.

I personally haven't read it. But have seen some of the images that it portrays.

Forget lese majeste or incitement to violence, whoever prints it will end up with libel cases of gazillions of baht, and probably 1,625,000 years in jail.

For me if it doesn't incite violence, (which I understand it has), it should be allowed, lies or not. If the institutions and people cannot defend themselves against the accusations, that is their problem. Lese majeste is a very big issue in Thailand, and there is no reason for any publication to stray into this area if it is simply making political comment.

However, for a country like Thailand where the libel laws are so ludicrously powerful, I am amazed it has remained in print even this long.

About Lese majeste, is it a real threat, or is it what Army/CRES/DSI is leading us to believe?

I plead the 5th......

[dobadoy]

What a sad indictment of Thailand. Red Power magazine is one of the few publications in Thailand that doesn't tow the government line.

No surprises then that it falls victim to government harassment and intimidation.

Speaks volumes about freedom of speech in Thailand and more so freedom of the press here.

Red leaders have publicly made statements about burning down the country, taking 'a million liters of molotovss' to Bangkok, and indeed their supporters have - as we all know - burned down Central world. I don't think publications that support that kind of a movement would be allowed in any country. On the contrary, in the West they'd be branded as terrorists and rounded up under anti-terrorism laws. Here they get away with being called 'a political opposition', have their own MPs, get to debate with the prime minister on live TV, and are offered reconciliation.

Restriction of free speech? They don't understand what 'free speech' means.

[yellow1red1]

Give up - and get a life!

Do you really deny people the right to express themselves in writing ??

The only things that can be said are what you approve ??

Is this your case ?

Featured photo from the last issue in September 2010. Would this be tolerated in your country?

TH

heck YES doh quite easily and quite often

sometimes, if a politician is characterised too 'monstrously' they do sue, civilly

NOBODY would get arrested or even sued for putting Obama's picture of flip flops DUH

you canNOT compare ThailaND with the West and look intelligent

get rid of Corruption an ALLOW free speech before making weird comparisons to the free World

[Buchholz]

What a sad indictment of Thailand. Red Power magazine is one of the few publications in Thailand that doesn't tow the government line.

No surprises then that it falls victim to government harassment and intimidation.

Speaks volumes about freedom of speech in Thailand and more so freedom of the press here.

Red leaders have publicly made statements about burning down the country, taking 'a million liters of molotovss' to Bangkok, and indeed their supporters have - as we all know - burned down Central world. I don't think publications that support that kind of a movement would be allowed in any country. On the contrary, in the West they'd be branded as terrorists and rounded up under anti-terrorism laws. Here they get away with being called 'a political opposition', have their own MPs, get to debate with the prime minister on live TV, and are offered reconciliation.

Restriction of free speech? They don't understand what 'free speech' means.

very salient points...

[yellow1red1]

Give up - and get a life!

Do you really deny people the right to express themselves in writing ??

The only things that can be said are what you approve ??

Is this your case ?

Featured photo from the last issue in September 2010. Would this be tolerated in your country?

TH

happens all the time in the FREE world

Edited October 30, 2010 by yellow1red1

[jayjay0]

Give up - and get a life!

Do you really deny people the right to express themselves in writing ??

The only things that can be said are what you approve ??

Is this your case ?

The problem with this mag is that is affronted the monarchy. And according to the CRES, it incited hatred and violence. Plus, it was initially closed as the factory it was being produced in was not approved. I'm sure if that was the case in your home country, it would get shut down also...even if it was printing bibles.

I hear ya on freedom of speech. I'm from the US and that's a big deal to us. So I fully support it! But if you print you want to kill, injure or kidnap the president, you're going to jail....which is not a bad thing...

If you believe it is OK to print articles that are designed to incite and terrorize a Country by comparably speaking a hand full of people You believe in free speech. If you think that is wrong you don't believe in free speech. In North America they have laws to stop people from printing certain things. Ergo they do not have free speech. And rightfully so.

I personally am fed up with people who put the individual ahead of society. What are they lacking in the upstairs department look at what Thaksin has done with putting himself ahead of a whole country.

In the US you could kill a human being and walk away a free man because you were not told you had a rite to a lawyer. At some time people are going to have to stop thinking only of them selves and start thinking of the human society as a whole. This means losing some of your freedom.

[jayjay0]

Give up - and get a life!

Do you really deny people the right to express themselves in writing ??

The only things that can be said are what you approve ??

Is this your case ?

Featured photo from the last issue in September 2010. Would this be tolerated in your country?

TH

happens all the time in the FREE world

Nice try. Now try to be honest. In America it is not backed up with red terrorists throwing bombs shooting people invading hospitals trying to burn down City's. You know all this. Remember you were part of it.

[monkfish]

Nice try. Now try to be honest. In America it is not backed up with red terrorists throwing bombs shooting people invading hospitals trying to burn down City's. You know all this. Remember you were part of it.

Nice try too! as anything been proven in a court of law? or are you just being prejudice?

[yellow1red1]

Do you really deny people the right to express themselves in writing ??

The only things that can be said are what you approve ??

Is this your case ?

Featured photo from the last issue in September 2010. Would this be tolerated in your country?

TH

happens all the time in the FREE world

Nice try. Now try to be honest. In America it is not backed up with red terrorists throwing bombs shooting people invading hospitals trying to burn down City's. You know all this. Remember you were part of it.

TH asked a question.. i answered it with a few , of thousands of examples, that YES such pictures would be tolerated, nobody would be arrested, not sued, no banning of magazines,,,

you butt in with your, usual, point that you are the only one who 'knows the world' this time " has anything upstairs"

<<< it's a theory, but no validation has has emerged

There were people in jail, people exiled long before april 2010, years before, Thaksin did it, now Abhisit is.

Thailand does have a LOT of corruption; Thailnd does NOT have free speech,,,

sawy if the truth hurts so much...

I respect Myrnamar and N Korea more,, they just DO it and don't try to pretend they are part of the free world

I have my deeply personal reasons, good as ANYone elses" ANYones for wishing, beyond hope that Thailand waS a stable and open democracy,

it isn't, and it is not going to be,,, too many bitches in the dog pile to change anything

get back to normal HA HA the stupidest thing i ever heard coming ouuta there

back to normal HA HA HA

[phiphidon]

What a sad indictment of Thailand. Red Power magazine is one of the few publications in Thailand that doesn't tow the government line.

No surprises then that it falls victim to government harassment and intimidation.

Speaks volumes about freedom of speech in Thailand and more so freedom of the press here.

I personally haven't read it. But have seen some of the images that it portrays.

Forget lese majeste or incitement to violence, whoever prints it will end up with libel cases of gazillions of baht, and probably 1,625,000 years in jail.

For me if it doesn't incite violence, (which I understand it has), it should be allowed, lies or not. If the institutions and people cannot defend themselves against the accusations, that is their problem. Lese majeste is a very big issue in Thailand, and there is no reason for any publication to stray into this area if it is simply making political comment.

However, for a country like Thailand where the libel laws are so ludicrously powerful, I am amazed it has remained in print even this long.

Well maybe look at this site and read the articles and think again, it doesn't incite violence but then.........................

http://www.antithaks...php?Aid=0205090

[rubl]

begin removed (some quotes) ...

TH asked a question.. i answered it with a few , of thousands of examples, that YES such pictures would be tolerated, nobody would be arrested, not sued, no banning of magazines,,,

you butt in with your, usual, point that you are the only one who 'knows the world' this time " has anything upstairs"

<<< it's a theory, but no validation has has emerged

There were people in jail, people exiled long before april 2010, years before, Thaksin did it, now Abhisit is.

Thailand does have a LOT of corruption; Thailnd does NOT have free speech,,,

sawy if the truth hurts so much...

I respect Myrnamar and N Korea more,, they just DO it and don't try to pretend they are part of the free world

I have my deeply personal reasons, good as ANYone elses" ANYones for wishing, beyond hope that Thailand waS a stable and open democracy,

it isn't, and it is not going to be,,, too many bitches in the dog pile to change anything

get back to normal HA HA the stupidest thing i ever heard coming ouuta there

back to normal HA HA HA

I do have a sense of humour, but some escapes me. Maybe when some mix colours they get into a personal 'high' which is not easily understand by others not on a high. Could be.

As far as those sarcastic 'first pages' are concerned, some countries accept them, some don't.

[monkfish]

Take a look at this site

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=117557918280498&v=wall&ref=mf

It isn't Red shirt!!

roughly translated "Lets Celebrate the deaths of Red Shirt Terrorists"

And there are more a lot more.

[rubl]

Take a look at this site

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=117557918280498&v=wall&ref=mf

It isn't Red shirt!!

roughly translated "Lets Celebrate the deaths of Red Shirt Terrorists"

And there are more a lot more.

On both sides you have fools. I never, ever celebrate the death of anyone.

[craigt3365]

The problem with this mag is that is affronted the monarchy. And according to the CRES, it incited hatred and violence. Plus, it was initially closed as the factory it was being produced in was not approved. I'm sure if that was the case in your home country, it would get shut down also...even if it was printing bibles.

I hear ya on freedom of speech. I'm from the US and that's a big deal to us. So I fully support it! But if you print you want to kill, injure or kidnap the president, you're going to jail....which is not a bad thing...

If you believe it is OK to print articles that are designed to incite and terrorize a Country by comparably speaking a hand full of people You believe in free speech. If you think that is wrong you don't believe in free speech. In North America they have laws to stop people from printing certain things. Ergo they do not have free speech. And rightfully so.

I personally am fed up with people who put the individual ahead of society. What are they lacking in the upstairs department look at what Thaksin has done with putting himself ahead of a whole country.

In the US you could kill a human being and walk away a free man because you were not told you had a rite to a lawyer. At some time people are going to have to stop thinking only of them selves and start thinking of the human society as a whole. This means losing some of your freedom.

I guess I don't believe in 100% free speech then. Many would disagree with us, and it does mean losing some of your freedom...due to a few bad apples that spoil the whole thing. In a modern, and violent, world society that we now live in, 100% freedom is impossible.

On both sides you have fools. I never, ever celebrate the death of anyone.

Here, here!

[TAWP]

As the magazine has been shut down I assume the publisher has been charged with a criminal offences and now out on bail.

This incident will probably land him back in jail.

The magazine itself has not been shutdown, according to the articles. A printer acting without a license, as did many red radio stations, being cited for this reason, isn't the magazine being shut down. It is unlicensed vendors and producers being stopped.

Even if I might disagree on the latter as I don't believe anyone should need a license to have a printing outlet, it is within the current framework of laws and not something you per se can shout 'censorship' about, as it strikes equally across the board.

And in closing, your little odd rant about criminal offense is therefor misplaced.

[dobadoy]

I respect Myrnamar and N Korea more,, they just DO it and don't try to pretend they are part of the free world

Right. So you "respect" the fact that in N.Korea and Myanmar people publishing this kind of magazine wouldn't be just subjected to harassment like not being able to cross a border, but would be locked up indefinitely in prison, tortured or even killed? The fact that the Thai powers-that-be try to stifle opposition quietly rather than crush it with an iron fist is somehow, in your eyes, far more morally reprehensible?

Following your logic, you must think the world, then, of all those Iraqi torturers exposed by wikileaks the other week! Such moral integrity! To wire up the testicles of their countrymen, pour acid on them and beat them to death without beating about the bush. No equivocation there. Respect!

Hmm....perhaps its true what someone called me on another thread, I must be one of the "stupids" around here....

[SergeiY]

On both sides you have fools. I never, ever celebrate the death of anyone.

Here, here!

and here:

Sorry to say, but there are moments I wished the doctored tape of PM Abhisit saying 'kill them all' from last year's Songkhran fun in Bangkok was true.

[rubl]

As the magazine has been shut down I assume the publisher has been charged with a criminal offences and now out on bail.

This incident will probably land him back in jail.

The magazine itself has not been shutdown, according to the articles. A printer acting without a license, as did many red radio stations, being cited for this reason, isn't the magazine being shut down. It is unlicensed vendors and producers being stopped.

Even if I might disagree on the latter as I don't believe anyone should need a license to have a printing outlet, it is within the current framework of laws and not something you per se can shout 'censorship' about, as it strikes equally across the board.

And in closing, your little odd rant about criminal offense is therefor misplaced.

Minor point, but regarding a license for printing. During the print process not only printed matter but also waste is produced. That's one of the reasons in most countries you need a license. It's not really a printing license, but a license for the print process and a confirmation you have valid plans and procedures for waste disposal, calamities, etc., etc. You're registered with police, fire brigade, and a few more etceteras.

Of course there may be countries where you need a license to print

[yellow1red1]

I respect Myrnamar and N Korea more,, they just DO it and don't try to pretend they are part of the free world

Right. So you "respect" the fact that in N.Korea and Myanmar people publishing this kind of magazine wouldn't be just subjected to harassment like not being able to cross a border, but would be locked up indefinitely in prison, tortured or even killed? The fact that the Thai powers-that-be try to stifle opposition quietly rather than crush it with an iron fist is somehow, in your eyes, far more morally reprehensible?

Following your logic, you must think the world, then, of all those Iraqi torturers exposed by wikileaks the other week! Such moral integrity! To wire up the testicles of their countrymen, pour acid on them and beat them to death without beating about the bush. No equivocation there. Respect!

Hmm....perhaps its true what someone called me on another thread, I must be one of the "stupids" around here....

don't know if you got my 'angle' Burma and N K are more corrupt 'slightly' with less free speech 'slightly' than Thailand;;;

at least they don't pretend they are part of the free world. all of that whitening cream seems to have leaked into Thai politics.

WHEN are they going to get nobody, well sans TV Posters, are being fooled by the gaudy make up?

Is it the FACT that Thailand has indemic corruption and NO free speech you dispute;;;

OR the fact NObody is supposed to 'believe' it, or point it out ??

call 1111

The saddest part??? Thailand has gifts for such great potential as a Kingdom...

the f head yellow and red elites drag her into line with Cambodia and Burma, when She could easily be abreast of Taiwan, Singapore and Japan if OPEN discussion of the root problems was ever allowed.

without free speech,NOT wild, inciteful ranting , Corruption, the NUMERO UNO problem will not be curtailed

corruption causes more discontent and violence, instability, than Class distinction...

same/same for past decades --- same/same for future decades

How do YOU think Thailand could get a higher ranking in Corruption Transparency Index, or is it important to 'accept' a dismal ranking?