Building A New Ancient Town

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You're all probably familiar with Wiang Kum Kam, the historical site of a former city that disappeared under water and then soil for many centuries. It's a fun place to take the kids, for just 200 baht you can tour the site in a horse drawn carriage, which is fun. Or just drive past the sites yourself, there's a 5 baht map that points out the locations of all sites.

But anyway, I couldn't help but notice that A LOT or work is going on.. Looks almost like they're rebuilding stuff to be quite a bit bigger than it used to be, recreating more elaborate ruins. It seems a bit arbitrary on where to stop rebuilding; might as well continue all the way then.

[Semper]

Preparing for the relocation of Loi Kroh?

[hellodolly]

Reminds me of first time I was in Bali.

My friend and I were walking down the street when we saw a sign antiques made the old fashioned way. We went in and could hear a electric sander in the back.

Is this place close to town? we went and saw a similar situation last year but no horse and carriage. It was close to town.

[eyecatcher]

As a tourist attraction, to redevelop the ruins to the artsits impression of what they may have looked liked, would be fantastic; however from my recollection, these fields of ruins maybe half a dozen or so are spread out over a wide area, and many sois so to start from the temple means a long walk or indeed the horse and carriage to find them all.

I see this as a drawback.

[ARISTIDE]

Many tourists also like to romanticizing the the idea of mystical ancient ruins so I guess the local just deliver what the customers want.

Like many historical sites in India e.g. Nalanda university were rebuild in to a weird brick works of some sort.

Edited August 12, 2012 by ARISTIDE

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Is this place close to town? we went and saw a similar situation last year but no horse and carriage. It was close to town.

Very close; just South of the Aom Muang ring road, in between the road along the river and the old Lamphun road. This site includes Google Maps links: http://www.chiangmai1.com/chiang_mai/wiang_kum_kam.shtml

[isanbirder]

Wat Jet Yod is in a similar state. But I can't see any harm in rebuilding the walls to a foot or so above ground so that people can see how they were originally. Rebuilding the way Myanmar has rebuilt Pagan after the earthquake is definitely not acceptable; quite apart from questions of authenticity, I'm told they simply got it wrong!

[hellodolly]

Is this place close to town? we went and saw a similar situation last year but no horse and carriage. It was close to town.

Very close; just South of the Aom Muang ring road, in between the road along the river and the old Lamphun road. This site includes Google Maps links: http://www.chiangmai...g_kum_kam.shtml

Thanks I think that was thee one we saw. Had a driver for the day so didn't need a pony. Didn't see them either. I was with the wife and another couple so couldn't really spend much time there. I would have liked to look around more than stand there and look over it.

It is times like that when I would really like to have transportation.

[Maejo Man]

Obviously not a Thai fine arts project. It was stunning the way it was. The new bricks stick out like dog's balls, and have no artistic merit what so ever. It used to be one of my favourite places to loose half a day, and you never saw a soul. Now it looks like it's the next major tourist attraction to be touted by TAT

[Beetlejuice]

Preparing for the relocation of Loi Kroh?

I think that would be a brillant idea.

I mean, they both hold old relics from a bygone age.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[Maejo Man]

As it was about ten years ago...perfect!!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

As it was about ten years ago...perfect!!

Not to worry; there are others. Wiang Tha Kan for example, in Sanpatong district is also not too far.

https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=เวียงท่ากาน&hl=en&safe=off&sa=G&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch

http://www.thakan.com/

[jonwilly]

On Google Earth at 18 48' 44.79" N 98 56' 58 87" E your in the centre of what I understand to be the site of the first settlement in CM.

Go up Hua Kaeo road past CM uni and before you get to the Nature park you will see a 'Lake' on your Left. There is another 'lake 'on the right but not obvious from road.

These 'Lakes' are part of the Moat that surrounded the original settlement.

All is visible on Google earth.

The Royal Development for Hill tribes is located in this area along with a Police station and other features.

john

[huli]

Obviously not a Thai fine arts project. It was stunning the way it was. The new bricks stick out like dog's balls, and have no artistic merit what so ever. It used to be one of my favourite places to loose half a day, and you never saw a soul. Now it looks like it's the next major tourist attraction to be touted by TAT

I don't know how long it takes but the bricks do start weathering before too long. I am always amazed how the wall around the moat looks so ancient but I think most of it was recreated around 1970. I bet the Fine Arts folks are involved in this work, a place of that much significance wouldn't be turned over to amateurs.

However, I admit "dog's balls" is kind of a cute saying, and rather fun to imagine.

[dave2]

re ..

I don't know how long it takes but the bricks do start weathering before too long. I am always amazed how the wall around the moat looks so ancient but I think most of it was recreated around 1970.

they are using brand new bricks at chiang mai gate as well !

and it doesnt look good : (

dave2

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Chiang Mai gate was cracked in places, and falling apart. Gotta rebuild it with something, you can't just go to Global House and buy 700 year old bricks. It's also fair to say that over the centuries, people have rebuilt stuff with whatever was available at the time. Suppose Chiang Mai's earliest walls were built in 1296. Then by 1350 or so they'd be patching stuff up, with stuff available then. It seems only natural.

Why doesn't it look good by the way? It looks new, but the design seems the same as always; it'll weather just fine by itself in a couple months.

Want to know what makes me truly happy: that they're rebuilding it at all in that spot. At that point the road along the moat is at it's smallest, only one lane. Knocking down the wall there to make more space would be truly worth complaining about.

Edited August 13, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[ARISTIDE]

I'm sure after a few years of rain those brick will look convincing real quick.

re ..

I don't know how long it takes but the bricks do start weathering before too long. I am always amazed how the wall around the moat looks so ancient but I think most of it was recreated around 1970.

they are using brand new bricks at chiang mai gate as well !

and it doesnt look good : (

dave2

[WinnieTheKhwai]

On a related note, we should also not forget that there are many ruins of former temples all across town. It's funny how you see an ancient pagoda in the parking lot of a computer mall, or next to some apartment building in a back soi. There are quite a few all over town.

This is a recent topic on those (in Thai, but with pictures) : http://www.cm108.com/bbb/index.php?/topic/52445-eoeeoa-aoaiaeo-aacoaaoaaeae-aoeaauoa/

[gennisis]

Preparing for the relocation of Loi Kroh?

I think that would be a brillant idea.

I mean, they both hold old relics from a bygone age.

'old relics from a bygone age'...sounds like some posters on Thai Visa

[Maejo Man]

As it was about ten years ago...perfect!!

Not to worry; there are others. Wiang Tha Kan for example, in Sanpatong district is also not too far.

https://encrypted.go...=imvns&tbm=isch

http://www.thakan.com/

Do you have a Google ref on that WTW?

[KNJ]

Reminds me of first time I was in Bali.

My friend and I were walking down the street when we saw a sign antiques made the old fashioned way. We went in and could hear a electric sander in the back.

Is this place close to town? we went and saw a similar situation last year but no horse and carriage. It was close to town.

My friend whilst visiting Bali was asked " If he wanted to visit the antiques factory "

[Greenside]

Vieng Khum Kham was presented to the public with a flourish quite a long time ago and used to be much more of a tourist attraction than it is now. As with many of the projects here, they don't really have the funds to maintain it but they do cut the grass fairly regularly at least. The work they have almost completed has not only rebuilt some of the parts that were in a very poor state but made the edges of the excavations less liable to erosion as almost all of them fill up quite early since there's nowhere for the rain to go. Many of the bricks you think are authentic were actually from the last round of repairs so I have no doubt that they will weather in perfectly .

Wat E-Kang last October - normally the area filled with water is just grass.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Greenside

[WinnieTheKhwai]

As it was about ten years ago...perfect!!

Not to worry; there are others. Wiang Tha Kan for example, in Sanpatong district is also not too far.

https://encrypted.go...=imvns&tbm=isch

http://www.thakan.com/

Do you have a Google ref on that WTW?

Sure; This is essentially it, the curved road towards the top is a part of the old city moat, with many historical sites inside and just outside it.

http://goo.gl/maps/hhTV2

If I remember correctly there is a visitor center right next to on of the main sites, I believe this is it:

http://goo.gl/maps/V35nw

It's about a 30 minute drive from town, not too far past Sanpatong; it's a left turn at Ban Klang.

[Maejo Man]

Many thanks

[dru2]

As it was about ten years ago...perfect!!

Not to worry; there are others. Wiang Tha Kan for example, in Sanpatong district is also not too far.

https://encrypted.go...=imvns&tbm=isch

http://www.thakan.com/

Do you have a Google ref on that WTW?

Sure; This is essentially it, the curved road towards the top is a part of the old city moat, with many historical sites inside and just outside it.

http://goo.gl/maps/hhTV2

If I remember correctly there is a visitor center right next to on of the main sites, I believe this is it:

http://goo.gl/maps/V35nw

It's about a 30 minute drive from town, not too far past Sanpatong; it's a left turn at Ban Klang.

It's a great place to visit - the villagers are mainly Tai Yong.

This may be of interest:

Wiang Tha Kan, a 10th century Mon Outpost near San Pa Tong

Ban Tha Kan (บ้านท่ากาน), located some 34km south of Chiang Mai in rural San Pa Tong District, is a small and prosperous Northern Thai settlement set amid rich lamyai plantations and fertile rice fields that has been inhabited by Tai Yong villagers from nearby Shan State since the beginning of the 19th century.

Yet as long ago as the 9th century CE it was a fortified town or wiang (เวียง) serving as an outlying bastion of the Mon Kingdom of Haripunchai, centred on the nearby city of Lamphun. Today the remains of the city walls and surrounding moat survive as well as the remains of 11 separate temples founded during the Mon Period (c. 9th-12th centuries CE), but mainly dating in their present form from the Tai Kingdom of Lan Na (12th-16th centuries CE).

In fact Wiang Tha Kan was just one of four known outlying fortified settlements protecting Lamphun. Two of these – Wiang Tha Kan and the better-known Wiang Kum Kam (เวียงกุมกาม) just 5km southeast of Chiang Mai on the road to Saraphi – have been excavated and restored by the Thai Fine Arts Department. Two others, respectively Wiang Mano in Hang Dong district and Wiang Tho near Chom Thong – seem to be less well preserved and have yet to be fully excavated.

Although commonly referred to as Wiang Tha Kan today, the fortified settlement is called Phan Na Tha Kan (พันนาท่ากาน) in the Chiang Mai Chronicle, where Phan Na means ‘one thousand rice fields’ an old northern Thai term for a district. Tha Kan District was clearly a place of some importance at the end of the 13th century, a time when King Mangrai (r.1259-1317), the founder both of Chiang Mai and of the Lan Na Dynasty, had briefly established Wiang Kum Kam as his new capital.

Thus, according to the Chiang Mai Chronicle, at this auspicious time four shoots from the great Bodhi tree at Anuradhapura were brought from Sri Lanka to Wiang Kum Kam and given to Mangrai. On Mangrai’s orders, one of these shoots was planted at Wiang Tha Kan.

Tha Kan also features elsewhere, albeit briefly, in the Chiang Mai Chronicle. In 1443, during an invasion by the Siamese of Ayutthaya at the beginning of the illustrious reign of King Tilok (1441-1487), ox carts were sent to Tha Kan District to collect bamboo slats to build temporary offensive bridges across the River Ping.

Next, in 1462-63, again during Tilokarat’s reign, Lan Na forces took over eleven small Tai Yai or Shan domains to the north and northwest. The Chronicle notes: ‘King Tilokarat acquired Shan as his subjects, both male and female, numbering 12,328 persons. He resettled these Shan in various districts, some at Tha Kan, some at Kao Chong and some at Phrao’.

In 1517 King Muang Kaeo (1495-1526) assigned another Shan, Phraya Kan – ‘Lord of Kan’ – 1,200 male and female followers and appointed him to take charge over the same three districts, Tha Kan, Kao Chong and Phrao, further strengthening Shan links with the area.

In 1546, during the interregnum that followed the assassination of King Ket Chettharat (1526-38, 1543-45), Shan forces invaded from Hsenwi, and Tha Kan was called upon to send forces to help defend the walled city of Chiang Mai. ‘They fought for three days and nights, until the fourth day, when the forces of Hsenwi withdrew’.

Finally, and much later on – c. 1730, near the end of the long period of Burmese suzerainty (1558-1771), when Lan Na was in turmoil and revolt, The Chronicle lists Tha Kan as one of the districts ‘fighting each other for preeminence, while chaos reigned everywhere… northern villages fought with southern villages, all becoming constant sores’.

The subsequent Lan Na Revolt (1771-1774) leading to an alliance with Siam, the expulsion of the Burmese and the rise of Chao Kawila (1781-1813) all contributed to the depopulation of Lan Na and the abandonment of Chiang Mai, on Kawila’s orders, between 1775 and 1797. Tha Kan must also have suffered, for at the beginning of the 19th century, when Kawila implemented his resettlement policy of raiding Shan State and other surrounding areas for Tai peoples to repopulate Chiang Mai, he also sent Tai Yong captives from the area northeast of Kengtung to repopulate Tha Kan.

This was a strange twist of Fate, as the Chiang Mai Chronicle also lists Tai Yong as being among the Shan captives resettled at Tha Kan during the reign of King Tilokarat in 1463. Certainly Tha Kan has a strong Yong element to it today, and these industrious and cultured people – close relatives of the Tai Lu’ of China’s Sipsongpanna region, from where they are thought to have originated in the 14th century – could hardly have been resettled in more pleasant or fertile surroundings.

But as well as rich farmland, the Yong also inherited Tha Kan’s Mon heritage, which has survived in remarkably good condition down to the present day.

On turning left (east) off Highway 108 about 4km after San Pa Tong – the junction is clearly signposted in both Thai and English – a large chedi is soon passed on the left hand side of the road. This is the site of the former Wat Ton Kok (วัดต้นกอก), marking the western approaches to Wiang Tha Kan. Wat Ton Kok, like all of the former temples at Tha Kan, is believed to have been founded during the Haripunchai Era, but in its present form dates from the Lan Na Kingdom (1296-1558). The chedi, built of brick on a laterite base, is backed to the north and east by the excavated brick walls of old temple buildings and the stumps of laterite pillars that one supported the roofs of the viharn, ubosot and other temple structures.

About five hundred metres beyond this point, the road enters the old wiang, passing between crumbling earthen walls concealed by houses and foliage and a narrow, lime-green moat. The village centre is marked by the remains of Wat Klang (วัดกลาง), located right next to the busy village market.

Wat Klang is the most imposing and most extensive of the former temples at Tha Kan, and is marked by two substantial latertite-and-brick viharn, the remains of numerous former temple buildings, and Tha Kan Museum. This is a good place to start a tour of the ruins, as they have a free folding brochure (in Thai) with a map of ancient Wiang Tha Kan showing the location of all the ancient sites in relation to both the museum and the moat. Each site is numbered, from one to eleven, and identified by name (again, only in Thai), while the most important monuments are also identified by photograph. For those not conversant with Thai, surprisingly detailed information on each of the ancient sites is available on posters hanging from the museum walls.

The museum also houses exhibits dating from Haripiunchai and Lan Na times including phra phim votive amulets, small Mon-style Buddha images with their distinctive flame-like haloes, and examples of blue-and-white Chinese porcelain dating from the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368) which were found amid the ruins during Fine Arts Department excavations that took place between 1985 and 1991.*

Just behind the museum is a storeroom housing stucco fragments from the ancient sites, together with baked clay amulets, brown earthenware burial jars, and three skeletons curled up in foetal positions, as they were found in their graves. The storeroom should be locked at all times – it wasn’t when we visited, however, the padlock hanging open in its hasp – but the sides of the building are made with wire mesh, allowing visitors to look in even when all is locked and secure.

Wiang Tha Kan is an easy place to get about. All the monuments are accessible by quiet, narrow lanes winding between traditional domestic compounds with wooden houses and rice barns, and can be visited by car or by bike – distances are a little far for walking, except perhaps in the cool season.

The most interesting and significant ruins – beyond Wat Ton Kok and Wat Klang – are Wat Ubosot (วัดอุโบสถ) at the inner northwestern corner of the moat, and Ku Mai Daeng (กู่ไม้แดง) set in splendid isolation amid Lamyai plantations about 1.5km south of the old city walls.

Text by Andrew Forbes, images by David Henley. © CPA Media, 2011

* Siriphan Yapsanthia, Kasama Kaosaiyanon and Wanni Phumichit, A Survey Report on the Excavation and Restoration of Wiang Tha Khan (in Thai), Bangkok: Krom Sinlapakon, 1991.