Oil prices plunge after Opec meeting

[Naam]

for the record: the former 40% goldbacking of the Swiss Franc was abandoned (based on a referendum) in 2000.

[konying]

You want Russia and China to destroy the United States and Europe in a global currency apocalypse that will destroy the wealth of the West so that Russia and China can rule the world.

I reiterate you are mad, delusional to think and believe the US and Europe are sitting on their hands in the face of this, or that the United States and Europe would allow your Mad Max Austrian school of economics scenario to occur. I guarantee you in the absolute you people will not succeed because you are incapable of succeeding.

If there is a financial and economic apocalypse it will be the stark opposite of your Goldfinger scenario for the reasons I've pointed out concerning the US accumulation of gold, the US dollar, the revaluation of the US dollar relative to gold.

Russia and China will go down, hard and fast. The only question then will be whether the devastated Putin and his demolished Russia will start pushing red buttons.

So your answer to my question is Russia and China would destroy the wealth of EU and US?

Let me first remind you that is it US who has caused latest financial crisis.

Let me also remind you that it is US who is responsible for current EU losses

Is it NOT America who is trying to destroy Russian economy?

Now, please do explain, why you think it is acceptable for US to destroy world's wealth but would be a problem if someone else did it?

Alternatively do tell why would Russia or China destroy the wealth?

I use to take you seriously, but thank you, i no longer need too.

[NeverSure]

You want Russia and China to destroy the United States and Europe in a global currency apocalypse that will destroy the wealth of the West so that Russia and China can rule the world.

I reiterate you are mad, delusional to think and believe the US and Europe are sitting on their hands in the face of this, or that the United States and Europe would allow your Mad Max Austrian school of economics scenario to occur. I guarantee you in the absolute you people will not succeed because you are incapable of succeeding.

If there is a financial and economic apocalypse it will be the stark opposite of your Goldfinger scenario for the reasons I've pointed out concerning the US accumulation of gold, the US dollar, the revaluation of the US dollar relative to gold.

Russia and China will go down, hard and fast. The only question then will be whether the devastated Putin and his demolished Russia will start pushing red buttons.

So your answer to my question is Russia and China would destroy the wealth of EU and US?

Let me first remind you that is it US who has caused latest financial crisis.

Let me also remind you that it is US who is responsible for current EU losses

Is it NOT America who is trying to destroy Russian economy?

Now, please do explain, why you think it is acceptable for US to destroy world's wealth but would be a problem if someone else did it?

Alternatively do tell why would Russia or China destroy the wealth?

I use to take you seriously, but thank you, i no longer need too.

I think you completely misunderstood. There are people who wish that Russia and China could bring down the US. Read Publicus' first sentence again please.

I have to say that it would be a miserable world if China and Russia dominated it and that anyone who cheers for that is nuts.

On topic about oil prices plunging. The US, which has more oil reserves than all of the rest of the world combined, has its oil industry financed by private capital - capitalism.

Russia and Saudi governments own the means of production due to the type of governments they have.

HERE'S THE RUB. Saudi and Russia need about $100 per barrel to feed their people and keep their economies running. They rely on those oil profits to underpin their systems. That isn't true in the US. Private capital owns the means of production in the US and all that is at risk is that private capital. US producers need only about $60 per barrel to break even on oil production and the government is unaffected if they lose money.

Today both Saudi and Russian governments are bleeding money regardless of their cost of producing oil. Unless oil prices recover to around $100 a barrel they will keep bleeding.

Now, who is going to lose here? The US which doesn't rely on oil money to run the government, or Saudi and Russia (and OPEC and others for that matter) who absolutely have to have the money just to feed their people?

[Anthony5]

You want Russia and China to destroy the United States and Europe in a global currency apocalypse that will destroy the wealth of the West so that Russia and China can rule the world.

I reiterate you are mad, delusional to think and believe the US and Europe are sitting on their hands in the face of this, or that the United States and Europe would allow your Mad Max Austrian school of economics scenario to occur. I guarantee you in the absolute you people will not succeed because you are incapable of succeeding.

If there is a financial and economic apocalypse it will be the stark opposite of your Goldfinger scenario for the reasons I've pointed out concerning the US accumulation of gold, the US dollar, the revaluation of the US dollar relative to gold.

Russia and China will go down, hard and fast. The only question then will be whether the devastated Putin and his demolished Russia will start pushing red buttons.

So your answer to my question is Russia and China would destroy the wealth of EU and US?

Let me first remind you that is it US who has caused latest financial crisis.

Let me also remind you that it is US who is responsible for current EU losses

Is it NOT America who is trying to destroy Russian economy?

Now, please do explain, why you think it is acceptable for US to destroy world's wealth but would be a problem if someone else did it?

Alternatively do tell why would Russia or China destroy the wealth?

I use to take you seriously, but thank you, i no longer need too.

I think you completely misunderstood. There are people who wish that Russia and China could bring down the US. Read Publicus' first sentence again please.

I have to say that it would be a miserable world if China and Russia dominated it and that anyone who cheers for that is nuts.

On topic about oil prices plunging. The US, which has more oil reserves than all of the rest of the world combined, has its oil industry financed by private capital - capitalism.

Russia and Saudi governments own the means of production due to the type of governments they have.

HERE'S THE RUB. Saudi and Russia need about $100 per barrel to feed their people and keep their economies running. They rely on those oil profits to underpin their systems. That isn't true in the US. Private capital owns the means of production in the US and all that is at risk is that private capital. US producers need only about $60 per barrel to break even on oil production and the government is unaffected if they lose money.

Today both Saudi and Russian governments are bleeding money regardless of their cost of producing oil. Unless oil prices recover to around $100 a barrel they will keep bleeding.

Now, who is going to lose here? The US which doesn't rely on oil money to run the government, or Saudi and Russia (and OPEC and others for that matter) who absolutely have to have the money just to feed their people?

You're right, the US doesn't use the oil money to underpin the system or feed their people, in fact is there still anything that substantiate the US system other than those huge print presses

[konying]

You want Russia and China to destroy the United States and Europe in a global currency apocalypse that will destroy the wealth of the West so that Russia and China can rule the world.

I reiterate you are mad, delusional to think and believe the US and Europe are sitting on their hands in the face of this, or that the United States and Europe would allow your Mad Max Austrian school of economics scenario to occur. I guarantee you in the absolute you people will not succeed because you are incapable of succeeding.

If there is a financial and economic apocalypse it will be the stark opposite of your Goldfinger scenario for the reasons I've pointed out concerning the US accumulation of gold, the US dollar, the revaluation of the US dollar relative to gold.

Russia and China will go down, hard and fast. The only question then will be whether the devastated Putin and his demolished Russia will start pushing red buttons.

So your answer to my question is Russia and China would destroy the wealth of EU and US?

Let me first remind you that is it US who has caused latest financial crisis.

Let me also remind you that it is US who is responsible for current EU losses

Is it NOT America who is trying to destroy Russian economy?

Now, please do explain, why you think it is acceptable for US to destroy world's wealth but would be a problem if someone else did it?

Alternatively do tell why would Russia or China destroy the wealth?

I use to take you seriously, but thank you, i no longer need too.

I think you completely misunderstood. There are people who wish that Russia and China could bring down the US. Read Publicus' first sentence again please.

I have to say that it would be a miserable world if China and Russia dominated it and that anyone who cheers for that is nuts.

On topic about oil prices plunging. The US, which has more oil reserves than all of the rest of the world combined, has its oil industry financed by private capital - capitalism.

Russia and Saudi governments own the means of production due to the type of governments they have.

HERE'S THE RUB. Saudi and Russia need about $100 per barrel to feed their people and keep their economies running. They rely on those oil profits to underpin their systems. That isn't true in the US. Private capital owns the means of production in the US and all that is at risk is that private capital. US producers need only about $60 per barrel to break even on oil production and the government is unaffected if they lose money.

Today both Saudi and Russian governments are bleeding money regardless of their cost of producing oil. Unless oil prices recover to around $100 a barrel they will keep bleeding.

Now, who is going to lose here? The US which doesn't rely on oil money to run the government, or Saudi and Russia (and OPEC and others for that matter) who absolutely have to have the money just to feed their people?

And why would it be a miserable world?

You do not think US has done bad of a job, someone else could do worse?

US ruined EU, US continues to ruin EU

US created havoc in the middle east

US created havoc internally

US is trying to ruin Russian economy, while in the mean time creating bigger debts for EU countries and putting people out of work.

I seriously doubt things can get much worse.

Again i realize US propaganda machine would have you believe in certain things, the reality is little different.

US has set some wheels in motion, but i am afraid NOT to US advantage which is not clear to US yet.

One thing US over looked is great relationship Russia has always had with the Arabs.

For time being Saudi's need US because of ISIS, but how long before they make a u turn behind US back?!

[NeverSure]

present external debt Russia ~$725 billion, external debt China ~$860 billion.

discussion "external debt Russia and China" closed!

Not closed at all. Those are tiny amounts equaling "nothing."

There are countries who buy small amounts of Chinese and Russian debt so that they will hold those currencies to buy from those countries. Thailands holds some Chinese bonds because it buys quite a bit from China and the bonds back the purchases.

But Thailand holds a lot more in US treasuries because the USD is the international unit of trade. They have to have USD's to participate in global trade.

The tiny amount that is held internationally in Chinese and Russian currency is dwarfed by that which is held in USD.

In addition to needing USD to engage in trade, people and countries buy US treasuries because right or wrong, they are perceived as being safer than others. They surely don't do that with Chinese or Russian debt.

Discussion "external debt Russia and China" closed!

[Naam]

present external debt Russia ~$725 billion, external debt China ~$860 billion.

discussion "external debt Russia and China" closed!

Not closed at all. Those are tiny amounts equaling "nothing."

There are countries who buy small amounts of Chinese and Russian debt so that they will hold those currencies to buy from those countries. Thailands holds some Chinese bonds because it buys quite a bit from China and the bonds back the purchases.

But Thailand holds a lot more in US treasuries because the USD is the international unit of trade. They have to have USD's to participate in global trade.

The tiny amount that is held internationally in Chinese and Russian currency is dwarfed by that which is held in USD.

In addition to needing USD to engage in trade, people and countries buy US treasuries because right or wrong, they are perceived as being safer than others. They surely don't do that with Chinese or Russian debt.

Discussion "external debt Russia and China" closed!

you missed what was discussed and i don't feel like wasting my time with people who first claim "neither Russia nor China has external debt" and then come up with the wise explanation "$1.5 trillion is a tiny amount bla-bla US is the greatest yada-yada all others are shit yakety-yak".