Scary Laos Visa Run Today 15/10/06 Be Careful

[stevespiral]

The often-repeated phrase "Why do Thai authorities shoot themselves in the foot" seen often in threads on Thaivisa is appropriate at this point.

It's precisely what we are doing in this thread. When a poster makes a thread detailing an apparent change at a border crossing and then is subject to ridicule and abuse by follow-on posts, we are essentially "shooting ourselves in the foot."

As I have already pointed out it is immigration policy worldwide to detain someone who is suspected of lying. The original post should have stopped at saying don't use agents as the border staff have issues with them....... OK great post thanks for the advice…. I agreed.

But no, the post continued to slag off the immigration officials for doing their job correctly...the question to ask is who was really in the wrong. I agree morally the agent was wrong not to tell the client and refuse his money (but then what do you expect, are they going to look a gift horse in the mouth), and after he was warned that there was a problem the person arrived in the agents car at the checkpoint in full view of the officials and then denied it even though it was blatantly obvious, how stupid is that??

And then he has the audacity to slag them off for making him admit to his lies before allowing him to enter (yes allowing him to enter, not turning him away)….. it is one thing to pre-warn people about the agent but it is wrong to imply to others who maybe don’t know that border crossing that the immigration are anything other than doing their job…. How is this misinformation helpful to anybody???? I have crossed that border myself over 30 times in the last 4 years and have never had a single problem even when I have been pissed out of my brain and in a right state. I think it is not very helpful to people who don’t know the border crossing options to scare them away from there, maybe the will read this post and decide to go to poi pet instead…. Now they are dishonest and deceitful as any body who has been there knows…. All in all not very clever and certainly not helpful.

[Thaddeus]

What on Earth would possess the next poster to create a new thread about a new experience knowing that his thread will be commented on in the same patronizing, abusive, speculative, over-analyzing manner?

I have read this thread several times..... the amount of comments with regards to 'this poster came for advice and all he got was ridicule' are fairly common. What 'advice' was sought from the OP.... none.... just a 'get it off my chest' post.... to which the only logical advice is 'don't do it again'

If the sign says "Smoking Prohibited, fine 2,000 Baht" .... what do you do, hand your cigarettes to a third party, let them light one up and then pay the fine yourself?

And the signs at most border crossings say what?

[gregchambers]

it is quite reasonable to point out bad experiences in Laos, such cumalative information then suggests whether it is better to do a visa run elsewhere.

people who have been left edgy but not had any actual hassle in the past, for instance, will probably conclude that Laos is no longer the place to go.

the converse, if one poster were to bad mouth Laos immigration and twenty were to write in positively, then it would be reasonable to conclude that an individual officer was having a bad day and it was maybe a reasonable idea to use Laos again.

the absurdity and irrelevance of the original question by a Laos official, as to whom filled in the form, suggests a certain amount of nastiness. Couple that with the guy who almost lost his passport when it was handed over to a group of Thais - and the total indifferene of the offending official - would alone suggest no more Friendship bridge trips. To me, anyway.

[wayner]

I've lived in Lao for some time and also find myself reading some of these posts in total disbelief. There seems to be a lot of people on this forum who have made it clear that they don't like Lao, especially since the visa regulations in Thailand have changed. I have mixed feelings about this, on one hand I'd like to defend the country and it's people but on the other I'm quite happy with all the scaremongering. I've met some great expats in Thailand and quite a few dodgy misfits with nothing to offer these wonderful places that make them so welcome. If negative comments deter the arrival of the latter in Lao then I'm pleased.

No disrespect to the OP whose post I felt was simply informative and very helpful.

[gregchambers]

going off topic, but I would love to know the background to your Laos stay (lone traveller, expat????) and how you manage to deal with male Laotians as they seem about the most dreadful of all asian males (and very dangerous as their arrogance is based on total self-delusion). I actually burst into near hysterical laugher at one guy's posturing...

[wayner]

going off topic, but I would love to know the background to your Laos stay (lone traveller, expat????) and how you manage to deal with male Laotians as they seem about the most dreadful of all asian males (and very dangerous as their arrogance is based on total self-delusion). I actually burst into near hysterical laugher at one guy's posturing...

Unfortunately, people worldwide, when trying to save face will make complete pillocks of themselves. Especially when in the presence of someone obviously superior

[Thaddeus]

it is quite reasonable to point out bad experiences in Laos, such cumalative information then suggests whether it is better to do a visa run elsewhere.

Let me tell you about my last Visa run to Laos.... hopefully the last ever, not from a people point of view, just a visa one.

This was in Savankhet, applied for the Non Imm visa at the Thai consulate, spent about twenty minutes with the Consul talking about the new regs (nice lady) I knew that I had to wait until 3pm to collect my Passport.

During that wait, we went down to the river for some water/food/entertainment (the entertainment was supplied in the form of watching the 16 wheel trucks trying to get onto dry land).... during this period we struck up a minimal conversation with a uniformed Laos chap.

When I had collected my Passport with the stamp and returned to the boat house, there was the usual sort of debacle at the check out window..... Thais, Laotians, Filipinos, Vietnamese ... all frantically waving Passports . I'm at the back of this, and then behind the tinted glass I saw a beckoning finger, the chap that I must have said about a dozen words to in total over lunch..... Passport stamped out in twenty seconds..... the boat left about ten minutes later and ten minutes after that I was back in Thailand.

Golden rules..... do it yourself, if you don't know - ask, don't get uppity if you are bending the rules and under no circumstances pay someone to do something that you should be perfectly capable of doing yourself.

[wayner]

Golden rules..... do it yourself, if you don't know - ask, don't get uppity if you are bending the rules and under no circumstances pay someone to do something that you should be perfectly capable of doing yourself.

Excellent advice

Agents in countries like this thrive on lazyness and ignorance.

Edited October 16, 2006 by wayner

[sriracha john]

it is quite reasonable to point out bad experiences in Laos, such cumalative information then suggests whether it is better to do a visa run elsewhere.

Let me tell you about my last Visa run to Laos.... hopefully the last ever, not from a people point of view, just a visa one.

This was in Savankhet, applied for the Non Imm visa at the Thai consulate, spent about twenty minutes with the Consul talking about the new regs (nice lady) I knew that I had to wait until 3pm to collect my Passport.

During that wait, we went down to the river for some water/food/entertainment (the entertainment was supplied in the form of watching the 16 wheel trucks trying to get onto dry land).... during this period we struck up a minimal conversation with a uniformed Laos chap.

When I had collected my Passport with the stamp and returned to the boat house, there was the usual sort of debacle at the check out window..... Thais, Laotians, Filipinos, Vietnamese ... all frantically waving Passports . I'm at the back of this, and then behind the tinted glass I saw a beckoning finger, the chap that I must have said about a dozen words to in total over lunch..... Passport stamped out in twenty seconds..... the boat left about ten minutes later and ten minutes after that I was back in Thailand.

Golden rules..... do it yourself, if you don't know - ask, don't get uppity if you are bending the rules and under no circumstances pay someone to do something that you should be perfectly capable of doing yourself.

Perhaps it will help if I just put things in a historical perspective and provide "my last visa run to Lao" as a 2-year-plus-old post that I dug out of deep TV archives and dusted off. It was my experiences at the same city (but not at the same location as the consulate and the personnel have changed since it was made).

Has anyone applied for a Non B visa in savannakhet Laos? What can you tell me? And is there actually a consulate there?

Just be wary of the "dragon lady" that runs the place. In all my travels, it's the only place where I had my passport literally thrown at me when I went to pick it up. She must be well connected to her job, because she's been the subject of numerous complaints. The first time I entered the office, she was in the midst of a tirade she was leveling at some poor hapless Lao. Adds a whole new dimension to the term "customer service".

Point being is that places change constantly... and policies changes and personnel change. There is no right and wrong way of processing the paperwork that all of us face in it's myriad of forms. There are no "Golden Rules".. it's whatever works for each and every one... we're all different.

Now obviously, we tend to see and go through these tasks similarly. I don't use agents either, anywhere else but Penang, where their value is clearly logical. But... I never degrade someone who uses them every time they go somewhere. I don't berate them. I don't chastise them. I don't judge them. I thank them for the information they've shared like this OP and work my way onward to the next thread and its bit of information that I can glean from it.

WE ALL DEPEND on updated information. But if posting an informational OP is going to result in the aforementioned negative aspects, that updated information will be less forthcoming from the people that are experiencing these various updates. By rights, this thread should have many, many "views" with a smattering of posts saying the occasional "thanks for the news".... or "appreciate the update, good to have you back in Thailand" .... By making it a negative thing to initiate a post on some new experience, we curtail that flow of information. Fewer people and rightfully none would post.

I foresee a time when on the second page of some catastrophic OP with someone ending up getting unjustifiably deported for "xyz whatever" reason that everyone is enraged about, I read the post that says,

"Wow...sorry to hear you're getting unjustifiably deported for "xyz whatever" reason. I had almost experienced the exact same thing 2 weeks ago. I was going to post about it on thaivisa and warn everyone about "xyz whatever" reason, but then I remembered back at that "Lao Thread" and remembered all the crap the OP had to go through on his thread and I decided it wasn't worth it. I'm really sorry because if I had posted it 2 weeks ago, you would have known to avoid "xyz whatever" reason, and you wouldn't be getting deported now."

Edited October 16, 2006 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

p.s.

if you guys want something to rant and rave about...and discourses on the right and wrong way of doing things, take it to the news and politics forums and leave the visa forums for informational update purposes and clarifications...

[Thaddeus]

Thanks John.

I can only say this.

I have never ever had a problem with dealing with any Thai official, or Laos one for that matter..... or Cambodian come to think of it.

[sriracha john]

Thanks John.

I can only say this.

I have never ever had a problem with dealing with any Thai official, or Laos one for that matter..... or Cambodian come to think of it.

that reflects well on you then...

and some people have...

as old-timer Ajarn if fond of saying, "In Thailand, your mileage may vary"

[sriracha john]

And to the OP:

"appreciate the update, good to have you back in Thailand" ....

[Thaddeus]

Thanks John.

I can only say this.

I have never ever had a problem with dealing with any Thai official, or Laos one for that matter..... or Cambodian come to think of it.

that reflects well on you then...

and some people have...

as old-timer Ajarn if fond of saying, "In Thailand, your mileage may vary"

Indeed it may.... good luck to you and the OP

[tropo]

I've lived in Lao for some time and also find myself reading some of these posts in total disbelief. There seems to be a lot of people on this forum who have made it clear that they don't like Lao,

Yes there are, just as there are quite a number who don't like it.

Let everyone have their say either way so that others may decide.

It's obvious that people such as you that for some reason beyond me, choose to reside there and of course that's their choice and understandably they are getting upset by the negatives being thrown around.

[sbk]

I've lived in Lao for some time and also find myself reading some of these posts in total disbelief. There seems to be a lot of people on this forum who have made it clear that they don't like Lao,

Yes there are, just as there are quite a number who don't like it.

Let everyone have their say either way so that others may decide.

It's obvious that people such as you that for some reason beyond me, choose to reside there and of course that's their choice and understandably they are getting upset by the negatives being thrown around.

Thats true of everywhere, lets be honest. Some people love Thailand, some hate it, Laos, Vietnam, Sweden, etc etc. You could ask a resident or visitor of any country in the world and there will always be some people who don't like something.

Just no need to take it personally is all.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I am sure we'd all like to know if anyone else has experienced this problem or something similar.

[Thaddeus]

I've lived in Lao for some time and also find myself reading some of these posts in total disbelief. There seems to be a lot of people on this forum who have made it clear that they don't like Lao,

Yes there are, just as there are quite a number who don't like it.

Let everyone have their say either way so that others may decide.

It's obvious that people such as you that for some reason beyond me, choose to reside there and of course that's their choice and understandably they are getting upset by the negatives being thrown around.

A double negative..... beggars belief... if you are going to quote at least read it first

[Thaddeus]

I've lived in Lao for some time and also find myself reading some of these posts in total disbelief. There seems to be a lot of people on this forum who have made it clear that they don't like Lao,

Yes there are, just as there are quite a number who don't like it.

Let everyone have their say either way so that others may decide.

It's obvious that people such as you that for some reason beyond me, choose to reside there and of course that's their choice and understandably they are getting upset by the negatives being thrown around.

Thats true of everywhere, lets be honest. Some people love Thailand, some hate it, Laos, Vietnam, Sweden, etc etc. You could ask a resident or visitor of any country in the world and there will always be some people who don't like something.

Just no need to take it personally is all.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I am sure we'd all like to know if anyone else has experienced this problem or something similar.

Apologies for going off topic a little bit.

[FRK]

So me being the LAZY ASS i am! I filled out one of them & switched the other for the identical one i had prepared earlier!

I handed both forms along with my fistful of dollers & sat down waiting for my visa into Laos to be processed!

After maybe 5 minutes i was beckoned back to the window and was quizzed on whether i had come alone or was using the services of an agent!

(He had oviously seen the X's on the form that was filled out for me & i had only signed)

I said i was alone & was not using an agent!

Why didn't you just tell the truth when they first asked you? The truthful answer is what eventually got you the visa.

[tropo]

Yes there are, just as there are quite a number who don't like it.

Let everyone have their say either way so that others may decide.

It's obvious that people such as you that for some reason beyond me, choose to reside there and of course that's their choice and understandably they are getting upset by the negatives being thrown around.

A double negative..... beggars belief... if you are going to quote at least read it first

Yes, you're obviously the forum grammarian (smartass) and you've caught me out on a double negative which wasn't really a double negative but you used it to show us all how perceptive you are...there's one or two like you in every forum.

Make sure you don't make any errors that might catch you out.

[sbk]

Yes, well, never mind. We are all adults here and I think its better to discuss the topic at hand, which may affect alot of people who use Laos for their visa runs.

[Thaddeus]

Yes, well, never mind. We are all adults here and I think its better to discuss the topic at hand, which may affect alot of people who use Laos for their visa runs.

Thank you sbk.

My experience of Laos is this..... it's a grimy god awful place that I would not care to visit again, but, the people are friendly, the Immigration Officials do their job with consummate ease (no back-handers required)..... and the bread is superb (French influence I think)

If you deal with officialdom as it stands now, as it stood in the past and how it should stand in the future..... not a problem.

[sossn]

Anybody that uses an agent is stupid they rip you off and you can do it all yourself get a bus to thlaos border control cost s 10 baht and apply for your laos visa yourself and no problems at all

[Spaniel]

I went to Vientiane in late July and got my visa at the border ($30) and did all the "paper work" myself which was completing a form that took all of 5 min. Why does anyone pay someone to complete such a simple task!

[PREM-R]

Would I be going too far if I were to ask if anyone had experience of using agents to get a visa at the Thai Embassy in Vientiane (as is the case in Penang) and if this is considered "illegal" or not.

Edited October 17, 2006 by PREM-R

[technocracy]

Would I be going too far if I were to ask if anyone had experience of using agents to get a visa at the Thai Embassy in Vientiane (as is the case in Penang) and if this is considered "illegal" or not.

As far as I the only thing there is are the travel agents but I've never seen any of them advertising visa services for Thailand. Most of them have the usual Cambodia, China, Vietnam services on display.

Then again the Thai embassy is dead easy to get to and shouldn't cost more than 20,000kip from the fountain square by Tuk Tuk and you could walk it in about 10 or 20 minutes. It's just past the Patuxai monument.

[gregchambers]

few years ago there were guys outside the embassy offering services in Vientienne, don't know if they are there now but they could not do anything you couldn't do yourself re required paperwork etc.

never used an agent myself but the reason to do so would be to queue jump either coming into Laos at the Friendship Bridge or at the embassy itself, which might justify a few hundred baht. should not be a big deal or anything.

[phuketrichard]

What dif does it make you were refused entry to laos? You left thailand, all you had to do was come back. I use 2 passports and often use the second for entry to the next country so when I return to thailand it looks like I went nowhere. Have never even been asked where i was...

Had a very tricky 30 minutes or so today whilst on my Nong Khai - Laos Friendship Bridge visa run !

Just to put you guys in the picture i always have used the services of a very friendly tour operator/travel agent to run me over the bridge & back to Nong khai whilst on laos visa runs!

It's just been convenience of it really, as they fill all the forms in and on many occasions have skipped past horrendous queue's etc.

so for the additional 300 baht or so it cost me i felt it was great value for money.

Anyway I turned up at their office this morning and was greeted exactly as i have been each time i have presented myself there over the past 3 years or so!

I Handed over my passport along with passport photograph & the fee.

One of the girls filled out the paperwork as they usually do & i just signed them, we set off for the 1 kilometre journey to the immigration checkpoint in one of their company vehicles.

From the moment i arrived at their office to arriving at the immigration checkpoint on the Thai Side of the border nothing at all was said to me that would have led me to believe that today was going to be any different in anyway shape or form from the countless other times i have done exactly the same visa run.

we arrived at the Immigration checkpoint (Thai Side) no more than 5 minutes after leaving the office & Although there was a strong military presence in evidence it seemed to be business as usuall, certainly with respect to folk leaving the kingdom!

Whilst travelling over the bridge my courier handed me my passport along with some $$$$$$

<deleted> i thought as this was the first time this had happened! They usually deal with all the stages visa run & i just followed like a lamb in thr past!

I asked her what she was doing handing me everything, And politelypointed out i had already paid her company for her services to handle all this for me?

I was me with a swift & sharp CANNOT! nothing more nothing less, again i thought <deleted>! But decided just to keep cool and deal with the rest of the usually painless visa run myself!

Arrived over the bridge at the Laos immigration checkpoint & was directed towards a window. where i was handed a couple of forms i needed to fillout!

One of which was identical to one i had already signed after being filled out for me in the couriers office in Nong Khai!

So me being the LAZY ASS i am! I filled out one of them & switched the other for the identical one i had prepared earlier!

I handed both forms along with my fistful of dollers & sat down waiting for my visa into Laos to be processed!

After maybe 5 minutes i was beckoned back to the window and was quizzed on whether i had come alone or was using the services of an agent!

(He had oviously seen the X's on the form that was filled out for me & i had only signed)

I said i was alone & was not using an agent!

At this point i knew i had a problem, but didn't yet realise just how severe it could have become!

After maybe another 10 minutes had passed i was approached by another immigration officer & was then escorted to a small office within the main building.

I was confronted by two male & one female immigration officers, one of the men shouted at me "YOU USE AGENT" to which again i totally denied.

They pointed at the X's on the form that was pre filled out for me, and again said "YOU USE AGENT FOR VISA"

Again i totally denied it.

Another couple of minutes passed whilst they chatted amongst themselves, then the female officer approached me & explained they were refusing me a visa into Laos as they believed i was using a the services of a visa agent/courier!

My heart just sank at that statement, as it seemed i was now caught in a terrible situation everyone hopes they will not find themselves in! NO MANS LAND!

I cannot get into laos as they are refusing me a visa!

I cannot go back to Thailand, as although i have officially left, i have not yet arrived in another country!

I decided to plead with whom i hoped would be the officer most willing to listen & hopefuly offer me a way out of this nghtmare! "THE FEMALE OFFICER"

I came clean with her & explained i indeed had used a service i had used for the past 3 years with no problems!

I also explained i was completely unaware that any legilation had changed regarding the use of such services on Laos Visa runs.

I also explained my thai wife & 2 year old daughter were patiently waiting for me back in nong khai, & would be totally unaware of what was happening & i had no way of contacting her.

She then left the room came back a couple of minutes later with my passport complete with Laos Visa. THANK GOD!

NEXT TIME NOT USE AGENT WAS HER PARTING WORDS TO ME!

although it had only been maybe 20/30 minutes, Words just cannot describe my relief on getting my passport back & Visa!

I genuinly had no idea anything had changed re using services such as these!

Does anybody have any further information or had the same experience of late?

[abdulrahman]

few years ago there were guys outside the embassy offering services in Vientienne, don't know if they are there now but they could not do anything you couldn't do yourself re required paperwork etc.

never used an agent myself but the reason to do so would be to queue jump either coming into Laos at the Friendship Bridge or at the embassy itself, which might justify a few hundred baht. should not be a big deal or anything.

This was at the old place,now they have weeded threm out,methinks.

[sriracha john]

few years ago there were guys outside the embassy offering services in Vientienne, don't know if they are there now but they could not do anything you couldn't do yourself re required paperwork etc.

never used an agent myself but the reason to do so would be to queue jump either coming into Laos at the Friendship Bridge or at the embassy itself, which might justify a few hundred baht. should not be a big deal or anything.

Just a little more than a few (five) years ago, my good friend and I both went there. He used an agent outside the embassy and got his totally legal visa in about 4 hours as he was in a hurry to get back. I wasn't, so I didn't use one and did the normal turn-in one day, receive-back the next.

Cost him an extra 1,000 for the "speedy service."

Just another example of changes here and there and everywhere. I doubt these same agents could repeat this performance now.

To Spaniel's question:

Because they choose to for their own reasons....