Windmills For Pumping Water

[Issangeorge]

Maizefarmer or anyone else, do you anything about using windmills for pumping water for agricultural purposses? Pumps to be used, where I can buy, building plans, anything? I live in an area that gets a lot of wind durring the dry season and I think this wind could be dirrectly used for pumping water from a well for irrigating fields. Issangeorge.

[chownah]

This has been discussed quite abit....try searching this forum for wind or windmill or pump...etc.

Chownah

[lannarebirth]

Darn! I can't find the brochure and website right now, but there's a company in Bangkok that makes these. It's in the Chaeng Wattana district near Dhjurakipundhit University. They sell several models from 12' diameter to 20' diameter ttogether with the tower. My recollection is that a 14' windmill on a 60' tower is about B 200,000. It requires a 6" <b>metal cased</b> borehole. These windmills are a nice option if you cannot get electricity to the site inexpensively now or in the foreseeable future, but if you can, my study shows that the expense is not justified.

I asked the manufacturer for a lst of places here in the north where they made installations. Everyone I contacted had since moved to electric pumping when that option became avaiable.

Hey! I found the website!

http://usa-eco.com/Engpage.htm

Edited November 6, 2006 by lannarebirth

[thelegend]

Darn! I can't find the brochure and website right now, but there's a company in Bangkok that makes these. It's in the Chaeng Wattana district near Dhjurakipundhit University. They sell several models from 12' diameter to 20' diameter ttogether with the tower. My recollection is that a 14' windmill on a 60' tower is about B 200,000. It requires a 6" <b>metal cased</b> borehole. These windmills are a nice option if you cannot get electricity to the site inexpensively now or in the foreseeable future, but if you can, my study shows that the expense is not justified.

I asked the manufacturer for a lst of places here in the north where they made installations. Everyone I contacted had since moved to electric pumping when that option became avaiable.

Hey! I found the website!

http://usa-eco.com/Engpage.htm

Hey. Anyone considered a small solar powered pump....could be cheaper as no tower involved.

[Pond Life]

For solar powered pumps, check out www.leonics.com

They are in bangkok.

Ignore the picture showing an inverter in the system, DC pump direct driven from the solar panel is the way to go.

[Maizefarmer]

I know where 2 Southern Cross 14 ' diameter windmills are - still disassembled and packed (so as new).

What do I know about them?

As a stand alone pumping method they are only ever any good during one season of the year and then, only for about 30% of the time. So, overall no, I wouldn't invest in one.

However, a combined Windmill and Solar powered pumping system is a very diffirent animal and tests in Thailand have shown that a combined system will offer as much as 70% efficiency!

Something to think about.

.... and don't forget on top of the cost of the windmill you have the cost of installing the borehole (if thats where the water is coming from).

For the Windmill you are looking at around Baht 150 - 200K

For the Borehole you are looking at Baht 100 - 150K

For the Solar Panels you are looking at Baht 150 - 200K (and if you use a submersible pump with that add another Baht 150k)

You are looking at around Baht 500k to get a decent system up and running.

Tim

[Issangeorge]

Thanks for all the replys. For the prices everyone is talking about it looks like I would be better to stick to electric since the closest powerline is only about 200 metres away. Issangeorge.

[Gary A]

I recently bought my wife a ten rai plot in the boonies. It is about four kilometers from our house but has no water or electricity. I had this idea about putting in a one rai pond with an island is the center, I planned to have a well (bore hole) put in first and to dig the pond around the well. I planned to put the windmill on the island to keep the pond topped off and to irrigate the remaining land. Part of the pond idea was to raise fish. My wife told me that the locals would steal all the fish so it made no sense to put in the pond. The bottom line is that another brilliant idea has bit the dust.

[Maizefarmer]

Yup - sadly as is the csase with most alternative energy source projects, they often involve a whol ehost of costs that add up to make th viability of the project very questionable, but which are a t first glance not very apparent.

Against the price of AC domestic power in Thailand, it has to remain the first and ultimately most viable source of relaible energy for just about every application in this country.

The benefits of alternative energy are seldom real benefits unless there is absolutely no alternative - which wil mean the elimination of a deisel powered gennie in alot of instances before the windmill or solar options and the capital required to invest in them can be considered as the best option.

Tim

[Naam]

"For the Borehole you are looking at Baht 100 - 150K

For the Solar Panels you are looking at Baht 150 - 200K (and if you use a submersible pump with that add another Baht 150k)"

*****

i don't understand Maizefarmer. one year ago, borehole 32meters (out of that 11m of hard rock), drilling time 2½ days, 6" pipe, submersible pump 1.5HP total = 85k, yield approximately 4.3m3/hour.

[chownah]

I recently bought my wife a ten rai plot in the boonies. It is about four kilometers from our house but has no water or electricity. I had this idea about putting in a one rai pond with an island is the center, I planned to have a well (bore hole) put in first and to dig the pond around the well. I planned to put the windmill on the island to keep the pond topped off and to irrigate the remaining land. Part of the pond idea was to raise fish. My wife told me that the locals would steal all the fish so it made no sense to put in the pond. The bottom line is that another brilliant idea has bit the dust.

Sounds like you've got a good plan and it sounds like you would like to construct it to see how your idea works out.....why don't you just do it and don't worry about the fish thieves......you can deal with them later if they materialize...maybe they won't....hire a local person as a caretaker/gardener and pay them with fish....this way they have a vested interest in keeping the fish intact....just an idea....maybe add a fence or wall to your plans......I think you should do it.

Also, my wife greatly exaggerates the possibility of theft. At first I believed her when she said that we shouldn't leave shovels outside unlocked at night etc. etc. Then as I got to know the locals better and saw how they were mostly not so concerned about thieves I asked one of them about my wife's concerns....they smiled and said that it used to be a problem years ago but it is not so much of a problem now and that some people still worried alot about it.....at least I think that's what they were saying since my Thai language skills are minimal.

Chownah

[Maizefarmer]

"For the Borehole you are looking at Baht 100 - 150K

For the Solar Panels you are looking at Baht 150 - 200K (and if you use a submersible pump with that add another Baht 150k)"

*****

i don't understand Maizefarmer. one year ago, borehole 32meters (out of that 11m of hard rock), drilling time 2½ days, 6" pipe, submersible pump 1.5HP total = 85k, yield approximately 4.3m3/hour.

The above is a defined situation - what I don't know in this case is what depth the bore hole will have to be sunk to - and if it is going to go down to the depths from which Windmills can pump (which is how this thread started off in the first place), then although you could use a 1.5hp pump from say 60 - 100m, you really would be better off with something a bit more powerful - and therefore more money.

In reality my figures are at the top end of costings - well, at least if the decision is made to go ahead on those figures they will be safe and everything that has to be done will be budgeted for

Chances are though - can be done for a lot less, and if the forum member who was going to use a windmill can come back with the exact depth that has to be bored, the flow rate required per hour/per day, the composition of the ground that has to be bored ect ect ...... I can come up with a more accurate figure.

Tim

[Gary A]

One BIG problem I have is how deep a bore hole has to be to get good water. It appears to be a major crap shoot.

A friend of mine has three hand dug wells. All three have always have water in them but he lives in Krabi province. Another friend near Satahip has a bore hole 60 meters deep. It takes a pretty good pump to push water from 60 meters down.

My wife says if we put in a pond we will have to depend on the rains to keep it full because thieves will steal pumps, equipment and any fish we put in. It looks like if I want a pond we will have to buy some more land VERY near our house and fence it in. She has already purchased about 3/4 rai within fifty meters of her house but has a problem there too. The chanote cannot be transferred until next June because the guy who owns the land has not had it the minimum ten years. (????) She bought it for 70,000 baht. The previous ten rai that I bought her took about a year to settle up the red seal chanote because the guy she bought it from died before the transfer was complete. Why is everything here so complicated?

[Naam]

Chances are though - can be done for a lot less, and if the forum member who was going to use a windmill...

*****

another thing that puzzles me is the windmill pump. how can a windmill pump drive a submersible pump? there are only two ways to pump water from a depth exceeding 9.99 meters. one is a submersible pump, the other one a jet pump. simple law of physics. i am not aware that a windmill can drive mechanically any of these two types. however i am willing to learn although it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

[lannarebirth]

Chances are though - can be done for a lot less, and if the forum member who was going to use a windmill...

*****

another thing that puzzles me is the windmill pump. how can a windmill pump drive a submersible pump? there are only two ways to pump water from a depth exceeding 9.99 meters. one is a submersible pump, the other one a jet pump. simple law of physics. i am not aware that a windmill can drive mechanically any of these two types. however i am willing to learn although it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

Hey Dr. Naam. A smile wouldn't kill you would it?

http://www.aermotorwindmill.com/Links/Educ.../Education2.asp

You can get gear driven versions of these pumps as well

[Maizefarmer]

Chances are though - can be done for a lot less, and if the forum member who was going to use a windmill...

*****

another thing that puzzles me is the windmill pump. how can a windmill pump drive a submersible pump? there are only two ways to pump water from a depth exceeding 9.99 meters. one is a submersible pump, the other one a jet pump. simple law of physics. i am not aware that a windmill can drive mechanically any of these two types. however i am willing to learn although it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

Thats the part you missed - the submersible pump side of it was in respect of using a combined Windmill and solar power setup - which I suggested would be a good option as we have so much avlaible sunlight to use in Thailand....... and solar part of it been to drive the submerisble - for which you can buy complete kits in Thailand.

Windmills can pump water up from as much as 400 - 500 feet depth - using the plunger and one way valve mechanism, which although strictly speaking is a submersible pump, it is not in the sense that I think you envisaged it been: in fact the "plunger and one way valve" mechanism- is exactly how most Windmills operate: the relationship between the cantilever length and the diameter of the diaphram lifting the water determining the force required and the amount of water that will be lifted per day.

Check out the tables on the website of Southern Cross Windmills (Australia or South Africa)

3000 - 4000 litres a day from a 14 - 16foot diameter windmill lifting from over 400 feet is not unrealistic.

er.... would this qualify as a new trick for an old dog?

Tim

Edited November 8, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[lannarebirth]

Right Tim,

It's basically a different version of a positive displacement piston pump; ie: a submersible.

[Maizefarmer]

Right Tim,

It's basically a different version of a positive displacement piston pump; ie: a submersible.

Bang on - yes, "postive displacement" that would be a even better description - submersible only because in windmill applications it is usualy installed below the water table to avoid priming problems as maintence of the one way valve at that depth would be impossible without having to lift the whole contraption out of the borehole.

They are brilliant systems - and there are some in South Africa that have operated constantly for over 200 years - I kid you not, built properly they last forever.

Tim

[Naam]

er.... would this qualify as a new trick for an old dog?

*****

i does indeed qualify as i didn't think that diaphragm pumps can be triggered without huge mechanical loss to pump from the depths stated. well... obviously it's just a matter what force of wind is available and an old dog stands/sits corrected.

[Maizefarmer]

Yes - their problem is "efficiency" - wind speed and depth been the gods controlling how much water they deliver.

However, I have seen one in South Africa that had a 23 meter diameter fan at a height of about 35meters , that was used to lift water from an old gold mine.

The depth was over 2000 feet.

The fan was "collapesable" i.e. it could be adjusted automatically to compensate for poor wind speed , or indeed be reduced if the wind was to strong.

It pumped on average around 3cubic meters per day year round!

Just imagine how much electricity/diesel that saved per annum!

Tim

[Pond Life]

Just for interest sake.

I got a quote for a solar pump system.

Smallest one available from www.Leonics.com

1600 lt per day

6m lift

19,300 Baht

50 w 48 v Solar panel, charge controller, Pump.

[Nawtilus]

For those in Bkk, if your travelling along Ratchada and before you go over the Lad Phrao bridge, heading away from sukhumvit, look to your left and you will see a big yellow windmill in someones backyard.

Also out near the bangkok water authorities HQ where the big canal runs alongside the road, on the way to impact stadium, look to the right and there is a place with at least 5 windmills around the place, not sure if they sell them or what.