Palestinian car driver shot dead by Israeli soldiers

[dexterm]

I have already explained to you why it is understandable that this woman was shot and killed due to the close proximity of the Military checkpoint and RofE and saving life and limb.

This makes no sense at all???

IF............& that is a BIG IF...because obviously it was not..........but if it was a terrorist car bomb type situation etc.

then yes proximity would matter...because obviously proximity has already been breached

But to shoot & kill a driver after a crash where nothing happened other than a crash/accident & nothing has gone off etc...protected them from what exactly????

After the crash did she start firing a weapon??

After the crash did she make a threatening move???

You know sometimes it is just beyond belief the claims excuses given for this continued behavior

From the second clip posted, it looks like she managed to back the car after the initial crash. Could possibly have tried for a another run.

There was, not so long ago, another car ramming attack by a Palestinian in Jerusalem. After the initial shock from the crash, he stepped out and stabbed a bunch of people.

Not very open minded. Seems to me you have already decided what she was thinking. And yet you accuse others of jumping to conclusions.

Edited June 25, 2016 by dexterm

[dexterm]

Read and comprehend my post and do not try and misrepresent what I have said.

I neither mentioned Israeli's or Palestininians, I did make reference to the drills in Military checkpoints. I also mentioned methods of terrorists attack. Both of which I have extensive, first hand experience of. Have you ?

Watch the video. I would doubt that at the time of opening fire the number plate was even a consideration.

I did watch the video. People fall asleep at the wheel, have heart attacks/strokes, get distracted or simply panic after pressing the wrong pedal.

So many options. Surprising how open minded some can be when it suits their agenda.

When discussing the Palestinian teen's death, somehow all possibilities were rejected in favor of a single narrative.

She was not asleep at the wheel. She was 18, and as far as I can tell from social media and media reports, not heart diseases.

And, going back to the last topic, apparently Palestinian can make mistakes, but Israelis cannot.

As usual the Israeli apologist way is to seize upon part of a post, and focus and generalize from that. What about the distraction and panic options I offered? Have you ruled those possibilities out already for an 18 year old?

What on earth are you talking about? It is the IDF who shoots first and then claims the I'm sorry I made a mistake routine. The IDF actions in the previous posts pumping multiple live rounds from an automatic weapon were very deliberate. A slip of the foot on the gas pedal is not.

Edited June 25, 2016 by dexterm

[Galactus]

So no actual figures.

Being able to provide one example, and coupling it with "out of control" seems a bit over the top.

Additionally, limiting this observation to Palestinians, while whinging about innocents being killed based on ethnic or national affiliations is somewhat disingenuous.

I gave you one example. How many innocent lives lost would you consider was too many?

I do not understand your last point. Can you please clarify?

You make a general statement, yet mange to back it up with but a single example. The added moralizing is nothing but the usual fluff. Pretty much standard on these topics, where opinions seem to count more than facts.

Clarification? By all means.

You refer to a "third set" of Palestinian casualties (not assailants or those killed in protests and clashes), allegedly killed by "trigger happy kids with Uzis...etc.". I merely point out that innocents are killed on both sides. As happened not too long ago in Tel Aviv. Whinging about how the OP (again, not Israel as first posted) presents things while doing the same is rather obvious.

The OP was not about any attrocities perpetrated on Israelis, so please do not try to obfuscate the issue with your whataboutery.

I ask once more - how many innocent people need to die from IDF action before you would consider them to be out of control? According to Haaretz, "It is unclear if incident was a premeditated attack or car accident." As I don't know the facts, I would tend to side with the (almost) universal principle of innocent until proven guilty. Except, she cannot be questioned now because some trigger happy kid with an uzi killed her.

The OP was also not about any atrocities perpetrated on Palestinians, and yet that did not seem to trouble you when going on about that "third set". The OP stated:

"Palestinian knife, shooting and car ramming attacks have killed 32 Israelis and two visiting U.S. citizens over the past eight months. Israeli forces have shot dead at least 198 Palestinians, 135 of whom Israel has said were assailants. Others were killed in clashes and protests.".

Somehow, you managed to first claim this was how things were presented by Israel (incorrect), and then to highlight a supposed "third set" of Palestinian casualties (not "assailants" and not "killed in clashes and protests"), while alleging they were killed by ""trigger happy kids with Uzis...etc.".

As you cannot provide factual support for your general claim, the cop out is moralizing and obfuscating. Allow me to be thoroughly unimpressed with this clumsiness.

Keeping in an open mind while not knowing the facts would, logically, mean also not making assumptions of guilt with regard to the soldiers actions. Phrases such as "trigger happy" indicate moral judgement call based on assumed facts,

We differ on another thing - I'm pretty sure that details will come to light. This usually takes a wee bit more time then the normal TVF attention span can accommodate, though.

You mean like this assailant murdered by a close shot in his head when laying on the ground wounded?

Or this girl murdered?

Or these innocent palestinian children killed on the beach when playing? (want to cry when I remember this)

According to israel no one is murdered. It is either mistake or just they were terrorist assailants.

Actually israel did not steal any land and oppress people too?

Are these enough evidence?

So those innocent kids were assailants?

Edited June 25, 2016 by Galactus

[Morch]

The woman is dead and all signs suggest the death was wholly unnecessary. While neither you nor I know the facts, I remain with an open mind and you show disregard, the same disregard you showed earlier in the week when an innocent boy was repeatedly shot by the IDF.

What "all signs suggest" that? And then go on about "open mind"? Seems like you already made up your mind (probably even before reading the OP).

Again, the moralizing personal remarks are unnecessary.

Can't recall keeping an open mind and asserting that details are not fully known were much of a theme when discussing the death of the 15yo Palestinian. Apparently such caution is reserved mainly for cases where Palestinians might be in fault.

Signs? Minor car damage, light injuries to the affected parties in the other car, no media fanfare highlighting the dead woman as some jihadi terrorist, no facts whatsoever to suggest she was...

A regular TVF CSI member.

Car damage is not necessarily an indication of the event being accidental or deliberate. Same goes for the injuries suffered.

No one, to the best of my knowledge, claimed religious motivations.

As with similar incidents involving young Palestinian women, there's indeed usually less "media fanfare". The underlying reason being that quite a few turned out to be related to the hardships of living in a restrictive, traditional society. It was referred to as a sort of "assisted suicide" (not derisively, and not by someone unsympathetic to the Palestinians). Families wish to avoid washing the dirty laundry in public, the PA wants to avoid more pointless deaths, and the IDF got no interest in the bad PR generated. Hence, less media coverage, and this goes back to a previous post - details come out at a slower pace.

EDIT: pic

Minor damage....?

Edited June 25, 2016 by Morch

[Morch]

Another video clip, this time from a different angle:

https://www.facebook.com/QudsN/videos/vb.119605611449682/1195142363895996/?type=2&theater

And what does that tell you? Are you confident, from watching that clip, to state that there was no technical malfunction on her car?

Pretty confident, yes. Not so confident as to deny it being an accident if investigations show otherwise.

She backed up her car, revved the engine, turned to the right and went right at the bus station/post at full speed. Seems premeditated to me.

I believe that an investigation could tell if there was a technical malfunction.

[dexterm]

The woman is dead and all signs suggest the death was wholly unnecessary. While neither you nor I know the facts, I remain with an open mind and you show disregard, the same disregard you showed earlier in the week when an innocent boy was repeatedly shot by the IDF.

What "all signs suggest" that? And then go on about "open mind"? Seems like you already made up your mind (probably even before reading the OP).

Again, the moralizing personal remarks are unnecessary.

Can't recall keeping an open mind and asserting that details are not fully known were much of a theme when discussing the death of the 15yo Palestinian. Apparently such caution is reserved mainly for cases where Palestinians might be in fault.

Signs? Minor car damage, light injuries to the affected parties in the other car, no media fanfare highlighting the dead woman as some jihadi terrorist, no facts whatsoever to suggest she was...

A regular TVF CSI member.

Car damage is not necessarily an indication of the event being accidental or deliberate. Same goes for the injuries suffered.

No one, to the best of my knowledge, claimed religious motivations.

As with similar incidents involving young Palestinian women, there's indeed usually less "media fanfare". The underlying reason being that quite a few turned out to be related to the hardships of living in a restrictive, traditional society. It was referred to as a sort of "assisted suicide" (not derisively, and not by someone unsympathetic to the Palestinians). Families wish to avoid washing the dirty laundry in public, the PA wants to avoid more pointless deaths, and the IDF got no interest in the bad PR generated. Hence, less media coverage, and this goes back to a previous post - details come out at a slower pace.

Amazing..anything ...absolutely anything to justify and excuse the trigger happy behavior of the IDF.

Do you not think there may have been a better way than killing the girl to neutralize the situation until one can find out what is really happening. The IDF need to go back to boot camp to be reminded of their rules of engagement, or a perhaps the occasional prosecution of two may jog their memories.

Edited June 25, 2016 by dexterm

[dexterm]

Seems a strange way to attempt to kill someone by ramming your car into a parked car from behind. Much more certainty if you target people standing unprotected. It could have been a simple accident or perhaps a heart attack. We will never know because of the now routine practise for judge, jury, executioner of IDF, using the the standard "I thought I or others were in danger."

Would the woman have been instantly executed if the car had had Israeli number plates?

Not all attacks carried out are the product of careful planning or display great capabilities. Logic is not a prerequisite for carrying out attacks.

It could have been many things, the point being that some here are willing to accept any mitigating half-cooked explanations when it comes to Palestinian attacks, and yet display absolute certainty with regard to circumstances and motivations relating to Israelis.

You do not even know that the soldier who shot the car noticed the number plates. Simply making bogus talking points.

So you are saying it is standard practise for the IDF to shoot to kill the driver of any traffic accident.. Israeli or Palestinian number plates?

Wouldn't it be better for the IDF find out the facts rather than shoot first. Rules of Engagement dictate the need to neutralize the situation not simply kill as a first option.

Kindly stop putting words in my mouth.

Also, at least qualify your nonsense claims - that you imply it was a traffic accident does not make it so.

Looking at available clips, it does not seem likely, in my opinion.

Not putting words in your mouth at all. You say that the soldier would have behaved exactly the same...sprayed the vehicle with bullets even if he had not noticed the identity of the number plates. Hence he would have behaved the same way to every traffic accident that happens in front of his checkpost. Edited June 25, 2016 by dexterm

[Morch]

I have already explained to you why it is understandable that this woman was shot and killed due to the close proximity of the Military checkpoint and RofE and saving life and limb.

This makes no sense at all???

IF............& that is a BIG IF...because obviously it was not..........but if it was a terrorist car bomb type situation etc.

then yes proximity would matter...because obviously proximity has already been breached

But to shoot & kill a driver after a crash where nothing happened other than a crash/accident & nothing has gone off etc...protected them from what exactly????

After the crash did she start firing a weapon??

After the crash did she make a threatening move???

You know sometimes it is just beyond belief the claims excuses given for this continued behavior

From the second clip posted, it looks like she managed to back the car after the initial crash. Could possibly have tried for a another run.

There was, not so long ago, another car ramming attack by a Palestinian in Jerusalem. After the initial shock from the crash, he stepped out and stabbed a bunch of people.

Not very open minded. Seems to me you have already decided what she was thinking. And yet you accuse others of jumping to conclusions.

Stated clearly in another post - I am pretty confident it was a deliberate action, rather than an accident. But if investigation shows otherwise, no problems with accepting it as such.

Coming from someone habitually weaving detailed accounts of events he never witnesses, and on the force of single, biased reports - the post above is taken with a more than a grain of salt.

[dexterm]

@Morch

>>Stated clearly in another post - I am pretty confident it was a deliberate action, rather than an accident.

So even though you weren't there either to witness events, you have already made up your mind, something you claim is premature when others do so. I merely claimed other possibilities. But we may never know because the IDF acted as judge, jury and executioner.

[Morch]

I did watch the video. People fall asleep at the wheel, have heart attacks/strokes, get distracted or simply panic after pressing the wrong pedal.

So many options. Surprising how open minded some can be when it suits their agenda.

When discussing the Palestinian teen's death, somehow all possibilities were rejected in favor of a single narrative.

She was not asleep at the wheel. She was 18, and as far as I can tell from social media and media reports, not heart diseases.

And, going back to the last topic, apparently Palestinian can make mistakes, but Israelis cannot.

As usual the Israeli apologist way is to seize upon part of a post, and focus and generalize from that. What about the distraction and panic options I offered? Have you ruled those possibilities out already for an 18 year old?

What on earth are you talking about? It is the IDF who shoots first and then claims the I'm sorry I made a mistake routine. The IDF actions in the previous posts pumping multiple live rounds from an automatic weapon were very deliberate. A slip of the foot on the gas pedal is not.

"Part of the post"? This is a one liner we're talking about....sheesh. I'm not obliged to point out each and every nonsense posted.

I do not believe, after viewing the clips that she was distracted. Panic? She stopped the car on the curve, backed up, revved the engine, turned a bit to the right and went straight at them, never wavering. Sorry if doesn't strike me as very panicky. You may now conjure imaginary tales and fantasies about her possible state of mind.

I do not rule out anything, simply stating how things appear to be from my point of view. I do not claim them to be certain, just probable.

And thanks for making my point - in your eyes, all IDF wrongdoing is deliberate, while Palestinians may be given the benefit of the doubt (if not outright justification).

[dexterm]

Sorry thread full..

@ SgtRock

I am sure the IDF who killed her would appreciate your counsel, although I doubt they will need it with a plethora of standard excuses at their disposal.

Not much consolation to the dead woman's loved ones though.

Doesn't override the fact that none of this would have happened of course if the IDF wre not illegally occupying her land that she was driving in and the illegal Zionist colonists they were protecting were back behind the 67 lines in Israel itself.

You really are trying to get into a really stupid argument.

I have gave you valid reasons, within RofE why this shooting happened. Accept them or do not, I do not care.

I will not lower myself to put in print what would have happened if it had been a successful terrorist attack.

As for your last sentence. The hypocrisy is now seeping from you. Take a shower.

And if it wasn't anything to do with an attempted attack; was simply an accident...any words of sympathy for the woman or her loved ones from you? Or was it just dehumanizing "collateral damage"?

No need to be rude.

No hypocrisy about my statement at all. These are my firmly held beliefs if you have read any of my other posts, that if the occupation ends with a just peace agreement, these incidents will end.

Try and keep up.

It is not known if it was a terrorist attack. Even if it wasn't a full blown terrorist attack, have you never heard of dummy / dry run to test and monitor reactions ? All standard SOP's for terrorists. Of course you probably already know that, or perhaps you really are on the clueless side.

So why you think I would be offering words of sympathy is beyond me.

'' Or was it just dehumanising collateral damage ''

I have already explained to you why it is understandable that this woman was shot and killed due to the close proximity of the Military checkpoint and RofE and saving life and limb.

That you chose to ignore or fail to understand this is not my concern.

Let me help you out a little bit with your last paragraph. Inbuilt and ingrained decades long hatred does not and never will end with the signing of a peace agreement.

Have you considered the other possibility...She wasn't a terrorist. It may have been a simple traffic accident?

What then? Would you or should the IDF feel any guilt or remorse at all about taking a young woman's life unnecessarily? Or should they just say "I was only following orders". Where else have I heard that?

No need for the rude patronizing either. You do yourself a disservice undermining your points by personal attacks.

Edited June 25, 2016 by dexterm

[Morch]

Signs? Minor car damage, light injuries to the affected parties in the other car, no media fanfare highlighting the dead woman as some jihadi terrorist, no facts whatsoever to suggest she was...

A regular TVF CSI member.

Car damage is not necessarily an indication of the event being accidental or deliberate. Same goes for the injuries suffered.

No one, to the best of my knowledge, claimed religious motivations.

As with similar incidents involving young Palestinian women, there's indeed usually less "media fanfare". The underlying reason being that quite a few turned out to be related to the hardships of living in a restrictive, traditional society. It was referred to as a sort of "assisted suicide" (not derisively, and not by someone unsympathetic to the Palestinians). Families wish to avoid washing the dirty laundry in public, the PA wants to avoid more pointless deaths, and the IDF got no interest in the bad PR generated. Hence, less media coverage, and this goes back to a previous post - details come out at a slower pace.

Amazing..anything ...absolutely anything to justify and excuse the trigger happy behavior of the IDF.

Do you not think there may have been a better way than killing the girl to neutralize the situation until one can find out what is really happening. The IDF need to go back to boot camp to be reminded of their rules of engagement, or a perhaps the occasional prosecution of two may jog their memories.

Allow me to paraphrase:

Amazing...anything...absolutely anything to justify and excuse any possible shred of Palestinian wrongdoing.

Do you no think that there may have been a better way than ramming a car into people for the girl to express whatever she was feeling?

And to avoid the usual faux nonsense - this is simply a reflection of your post. It does not to be taken as certainty on my part that it was a deliberate action or that I know what went on in her head. Pretty much as you do not know how things looked for those in-front of her she on-coming car.

I don't know if there was or wasn't a better way. I wasn't there. I'm sure that being an on-the-spot self-appointed authority on such things you will have concrete answers. Sounds like you know all there is to know about boot camps, ROE and prosecutions. Implying that what happened was not what was "really happening", though, is one of them things you do. Not very elegant.

[Morch]

Not all attacks carried out are the product of careful planning or display great capabilities. Logic is not a prerequisite for carrying out attacks.

It could have been many things, the point being that some here are willing to accept any mitigating half-cooked explanations when it comes to Palestinian attacks, and yet display absolute certainty with regard to circumstances and motivations relating to Israelis.

You do not even know that the soldier who shot the car noticed the number plates. Simply making bogus talking points.

So you are saying it is standard practise for the IDF to shoot to kill the driver of any traffic accident.. Israeli or Palestinian number plates?

Wouldn't it be better for the IDF find out the facts rather than shoot first. Rules of Engagement dictate the need to neutralize the situation not simply kill as a first option.

Kindly stop putting words in my mouth.

Also, at least qualify your nonsense claims - that you imply it was a traffic accident does not make it so.

Looking at available clips, it does not seem likely, in my opinion.

Not putting words in your mouth at all. You say that the soldier would have behaved exactly the same...sprayed the vehicle with bullets even if he had not noticed the identity of the number plates. Hence he would have behaved the same way to every traffic accident that happens in front of his checkpost.

Obvious troll is obvious. I did not say what you claim.

A car speeding head on to a soldier's position is not "every traffic accident".

And further, I do not share your passion for painting this as a traffic accident.

The car appearing in the OP carries Israeli plates....

[Morch]

@Morch

>>Stated clearly in another post - I am pretty confident it was a deliberate action, rather than an accident.

So even though you weren't there either to witness events, you have already made up your mind, something you claim is premature when others do so. I merely claimed other possibilities. But we may never know because the IDF acted as judge, jury and executioner.

As said - obvious troll is obvious.

My full comment, appearing just above your post:

"Stated clearly in another post - I am pretty confident it was a deliberate action, rather than an accident. But if investigation shows otherwise, no problems with accepting it as such."

Failed attempts at turning the table is yet another trademark of your posts. Rather pathetic.

Unlike yourself (as exemplified on the previous Israeli-Palestine topic), I do leave room for the possibility that my position may be incorrect. Also, I usually avoid making definite claims, without the benefit of facts and knowledge. As usual, when caught out you try to pin your own failings on others. Ain't gonna cut it.

[Morch]

You really are trying to get into a really stupid argument.

I have gave you valid reasons, within RofE why this shooting happened. Accept them or do not, I do not care.

I will not lower myself to put in print what would have happened if it had been a successful terrorist attack.

As for your last sentence. The hypocrisy is now seeping from you. Take a shower.

And if it wasn't anything to do with an attempted attack; was simply an accident...any words of sympathy for the woman or her loved ones from you? Or was it just dehumanizing "collateral damage"?

No need to be rude.

No hypocrisy about my statement at all. These are my firmly held beliefs if you have read any of my other posts, that if the occupation ends with a just peace agreement, these incidents will end.

Try and keep up.

It is not known if it was a terrorist attack. Even if it wasn't a full blown terrorist attack, have you never heard of dummy / dry run to test and monitor reactions ? All standard SOP's for terrorists. Of course you probably already know that, or perhaps you really are on the clueless side.

So why you think I would be offering words of sympathy is beyond me.

'' Or was it just dehumanising collateral damage ''

I have already explained to you why it is understandable that this woman was shot and killed due to the close proximity of the Military checkpoint and RofE and saving life and limb.

That you chose to ignore or fail to understand this is not my concern.

Let me help you out a little bit with your last paragraph. Inbuilt and ingrained decades long hatred does not and never will end with the signing of a peace agreement.

Have you considered the other possibility...She wasn't a terrorist. It may have been a simple traffic accident?

What then? Would you or should the IDF feel any guilt or remorse at all about taking a young woman's life unnecessarily? Or should they just say "I was only following orders". Where else have I heard that?

No need for the rude patronizing either. You do yourself a disservice undermining your points by personal attacks.

Have you considered the possibility that it was a deliberate attack?

What then?

I think I can guess quite accurately - a tirade blaming it all on Israel, the occupation and milking her death for all the PR value possible. For some, such incidents are win-win.

[dexterm]

@Morch

>>Stated clearly in another post - I am pretty confident it was a deliberate action, rather than an accident.

So even though you weren't there either to witness events, you have already made up your mind, something you claim is premature when others do so. I merely claimed other possibilities. But we may never know because the IDF acted as judge, jury and executioner.

As said - obvious troll is obvious.

My full comment, appearing just above your post:

"Stated clearly in another post - I am pretty confident it was a deliberate action, rather than an accident. But if investigation shows otherwise, no problems with accepting it as such."

Failed attempts at turning the table is yet another trademark of your posts. Rather pathetic.

Unlike yourself (as exemplified on the previous Israeli-Palestine topic), I do leave room for the possibility that my position may be incorrect. Also, I usually avoid making definite claims, without the benefit of facts and knowledge. As usual, when caught out you try to pin your own failings on others. Ain't gonna cut it.

Good. I presume you will apologize then when this turns out to be another mistake by the IDF. Edited June 25, 2016 by dexterm

[dexterm]

@Morch

>>And thanks for making my point - in your eyes, all IDF wrongdoing is deliberate, while Palestinians may be given the benefit of the doubt (if not outright justification).

No point made at all. You are disingenuously comparing apples and oranges.

Taking the safety catch off an automatic weapon, aiming and firing several rounds can only be deliberate.

Mistaking the gas pedal for the brakes can easily be accidental. Have done so myself several times when switching vehicles. Sure I'm not the world's best driver, but I don't deserve summary execution by firing squad for it.

BTW, the photo in the OP with Israeli plates is the illegal Israeli colonists' car, not hers ...hers was red. Nice try in disinformation, but no cigar.

Edited June 25, 2016 by dexterm

[SgtRock]

Another video clip, this time from a different angle:

https://www.facebook.com/QudsN/videos/vb.119605611449682/1195142363895996/?type=2&theater

Nice find Morch.

This clip shows the car was slow moving and accelerated rapidly to ram into the static vehicle.

[SgtRock]

@Morch

>>And thanks for making my point - in your eyes, all IDF wrongdoing is deliberate, while Palestinians may be given the benefit of the doubt (if not outright justification).

No point made at all. You are disingenuously comparing apples and oranges.

Taking the safety catch off an automatic weapon, aiming and firing several rounds can only be deliberate.

Mistaking the gas pedal for the brakes can easily be accidental. Have done so myself several times when switching vehicles. Sure I'm not the world's best driver, but I don't deserve summary execution by firing squad for it.

BTW, the photo in the OP with Israeli plates is the illegal Israeli colonists' car, not hers ...hers was red. Nice try in disinformation, but no cigar.

That is why you should take a step back from the keyboard, try reading and actually comprehending what has been written.

Posted by Morch.

[Morch]

@Morch

>>Stated clearly in another post - I am pretty confident it was a deliberate action, rather than an accident.

So even though you weren't there either to witness events, you have already made up your mind, something you claim is premature when others do so. I merely claimed other possibilities. But we may never know because the IDF acted as judge, jury and executioner.

As said - obvious troll is obvious.

My full comment, appearing just above your post:

"Stated clearly in another post - I am pretty confident it was a deliberate action, rather than an accident. But if investigation shows otherwise, no problems with accepting it as such."

Failed attempts at turning the table is yet another trademark of your posts. Rather pathetic.

Unlike yourself (as exemplified on the previous Israeli-Palestine topic), I do leave room for the possibility that my position may be incorrect. Also, I usually avoid making definite claims, without the benefit of facts and knowledge. As usual, when caught out you try to pin your own failings on others. Ain't gonna cut it.

Good. I presume you will apologize then when this turns out to be another mistake by the IDF.

Can't recall you ever apologizing when the content of your posts proved to be incorrect. You can start by apologizing for the blatant misdirection attempted by quoting half of my post. Little chance of that, though.

[Morch]

@Morch

>>And thanks for making my point - in your eyes, all IDF wrongdoing is deliberate, while Palestinians may be given the benefit of the doubt (if not outright justification).

No point made at all. You are disingenuously comparing apples and oranges.

Taking the safety catch off an automatic weapon, aiming and firing several rounds can only be deliberate.

Mistaking the gas pedal for the brakes can easily be accidental. Have done so myself several times when switching vehicles. Sure I'm not the world's best driver, but I don't deserve summary execution by firing squad for it.

BTW, the photo in the OP with Israeli plates is the illegal Israeli colonists' car, not hers ...hers was red. Nice try in disinformation, but no cigar.

Talk about "disingenuous"....

The context in which a mistake was claimed, referred to mistaking the Palestinian killed and those wounded for the Palestinians who staged the attack earlier. Play with words all you like, the version you present was never asserted.

And again, I am willing to accept that the OP was accidental, rather than deliberate, if this can be proven. Your "expert" opinion is not proof. Seems like the one not willing to consider the possibility that it was anything but an accident is yourself. A car directly speeding toward armed soldiers, will be seen as a threat, it is not your everyday traffic accident situation.

There were two pics of the car posted, as far as I can tell it is the same car. If you have information that shows otherwise, do share.

[Galactus]

@Morch

>>And thanks for making my point - in your eyes, all IDF wrongdoing is deliberate, while Palestinians may be given the benefit of the doubt (if not outright justification).

No point made at all. You are disingenuously comparing apples and oranges.

Taking the safety catch off an automatic weapon, aiming and firing several rounds can only be deliberate.

Mistaking the gas pedal for the brakes can easily be accidental. Have done so myself several times when switching vehicles. Sure I'm not the world's best driver, but I don't deserve summary execution by firing squad for it.

BTW, the photo in the OP with Israeli plates is the illegal Israeli colonists' car, not hers ...hers was red. Nice try in disinformation, but no cigar.

Talk about "disingenuous"....

The context in which a mistake was claimed, referred to mistaking the Palestinian killed and those wounded for the Palestinians who staged the attack earlier. Play with words all you like, the version you present was never asserted.

And again, I am willing to accept that the OP was accidental, rather than deliberate, if this can be proven. Your "expert" opinion is not proof. Seems like the one not willing to consider the possibility that it was anything but an accident is yourself. A car directly speeding toward armed soldiers, will be seen as a threat, it is not your everyday traffic accident situation.

There were two pics of the car posted, as far as I can tell it is the same car. If you have information that shows otherwise, do share.

you will accept and then?

your apology will not be changing facts.

palestinians will still be murdered again for simple fender benders. ans israel continue to oppress palestinians.

[Morch]

@Morch

>>And thanks for making my point - in your eyes, all IDF wrongdoing is deliberate, while Palestinians may be given the benefit of the doubt (if not outright justification).

No point made at all. You are disingenuously comparing apples and oranges.

Taking the safety catch off an automatic weapon, aiming and firing several rounds can only be deliberate.

Mistaking the gas pedal for the brakes can easily be accidental. Have done so myself several times when switching vehicles. Sure I'm not the world's best driver, but I don't deserve summary execution by firing squad for it.

BTW, the photo in the OP with Israeli plates is the illegal Israeli colonists' car, not hers ...hers was red. Nice try in disinformation, but no cigar.

Talk about "disingenuous"....

The context in which a mistake was claimed, referred to mistaking the Palestinian killed and those wounded for the Palestinians who staged the attack earlier. Play with words all you like, the version you present was never asserted.

And again, I am willing to accept that the OP was accidental, rather than deliberate, if this can be proven. Your "expert" opinion is not proof. Seems like the one not willing to consider the possibility that it was anything but an accident is yourself. A car directly speeding toward armed soldiers, will be seen as a threat, it is not your everyday traffic accident situation.

There were two pics of the car posted, as far as I can tell it is the same car. If you have information that shows otherwise, do share.

you will accept and then?

your apology will not be changing facts.

palestinians will still be murdered again for simple fender benders. ans israel continue to oppress palestinians.

Yet, another troll....

Nothing to contribute on topic, hence going for ad hominem nonsense posts..

[soc]

Execution on the basis of 'likely' and 'possible' circumstances sounds a lot like summary execution based upon ethnic prejudice. Maybe the lady's foot slipped on the accelerator or some other innocent explanation? As the article states, the couple in the other car received only light injuries, hardly the work of a determined terrorist.

No one but yourself claimed she was, or described her, as a "determined terrorist". Guess some would be more content if she was more successful.

As for the "maybe....", and maybe she was exactly trying to ram her car into people. But that does not bear mentioning as a possibility as it undermines the usual narrative.

Morch,

l wouldn't get to worried about RuamRudi.

He/she comes across as an avowed muslim apologist.

Why would I apologise for Muslims, and what should I apologise, on their behalf, for?

Why indeed?

You tell us.

You're always quick to jump to their defence.

[soc]

Execution on the basis of 'likely' and 'possible' circumstances sounds a lot like summary execution based upon ethnic prejudice. Maybe the lady's foot slipped on the accelerator or some other innocent explanation? As the article states, the couple in the other car received only light injuries, hardly the work of a determined terrorist.

No one but yourself claimed she was, or described her, as a "determined terrorist". Guess some would be more content if she was more successful.

As for the "maybe....", and maybe she was exactly trying to ram her car into people. But that does not bear mentioning as a possibility as it undermines the usual narrative.

Morch,

l wouldn't get to worried about RuamRudi.

He/she comes across as an avowed muslim apologist.

Why would I apologise for Muslims, and what should I apologise, on their behalf, for?

Why indeed?

You tell us.

You're always quick to jump to their defence.

[RuamRudy]

Morch,

l wouldn't get to worried about RuamRudi.

He/she comes across as an avowed muslim apologist.

Why would I apologise for Muslims, and what should I apologise, on their behalf, for?

Why indeed?

You tell us.

You're always quick to jump to their defence.

Ah, that is clearer - allow me to explain...

It is simply that I hate victimisation of any kind. I despise oppression regardless of who is being oppressed and who is doing the oppressing. I make no special efforts to stand up for any particular religion - to me, all religions are lies, but the demonisation of all Muslims because of the actions of a very small number who claim to follow that faith is something I cannot sit idly by and not comment upon. But this particular tragedy is not about Islam versus Judaism. This is about a powerful oppressor stealing from, and abusing a people already on their knees.

[dexterm]

Morch,

l wouldn't get to worried about RuamRudi.

He/she comes across as an avowed muslim apologist.

Why would I apologise for Muslims, and what should I apologise, on their behalf, for?

Why indeed?

You tell us.

You're always quick to jump to their defence.

Ah, that is clearer - allow me to explain...

It is simply that I hate victimisation of any kind. I despise oppression regardless of who is being oppressed and who is doing the oppressing. I make no special efforts to stand up for any particular religion - to me, all religions are lies, but the demonisation of all Muslims because of the actions of a very small number who claim to follow that faith is something I cannot sit idly by and not comment upon. But this particular tragedy is not about Islam versus Judaism. This is about a powerful oppressor stealing from, and abusing a people already on their knees.

Excellent reply. One with which I agree 100%.

[Galactus]

Morch,
l wouldn't get to worried about RuamRudi.
He/she comes across as an avowed muslim apologist.

Why would I apologise for Muslims, and what should I apologise, on their behalf, for?

Why indeed?
You tell us.
You're always quick to jump to their defence.

Ah, that is clearer - allow me to explain...

It is simply that I hate victimisation of any kind. I despise oppression regardless of who is being oppressed and who is doing the oppressing. I make no special efforts to stand up for any particular religion - to me, all religions are lies, but the demonisation of all Muslims because of the actions of a very small number who claim to follow that faith is something I cannot sit idly by and not comment upon. But this particular tragedy is not about Islam versus Judaism. This is about a powerful oppressor stealing from, and abusing a people already on their knees.

Excellent reply. One with which I agree 100%.

Agree too.
Of course pro zionists always claim like we are muslim lovers for propoganda issues.
They dont want to accept the fact that normal people with even with no religious beliefs criticising israeli oppression all over the world.
As an atheist, I am just supporting the resistance of oppressed people whose land is stolen too.

[Johpa]

As an atheist, I am just supporting the resistance of oppressed people whose land is stolen too.

And yet the zeal of the anti-Israel folks regarding the oppression of the Arabs in the West Bank, and I too am against the existence of the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, is never seen in relation to the oppression and/or stolen lands of the Kurds, Uyghurs, or countless other irredentist populations, many of whom do not have the alternative of migrating to neighboring states with an identical ethnic identity.

[RuamRudy]

As an atheist, I am just supporting the resistance of oppressed people whose land is stolen too.

And yet the zeal of the anti-Israel folks regarding the oppression of the Arabs in the West Bank, and I too am against the existence of the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories, is never seen in relation to the oppression and/or stolen lands of the Kurds, Uyghurs, or countless other irredentist populations, many of whom do not have the alternative of migrating to neighboring states with an identical ethnic identity.

If you try to be all things to all men, ultimately you help nobody. Terrible things happen in every corner of the world - does my not being outspoken about X diminish the relevance of Y?