Why Falangs Pay Ten Times More Than Thai

[weary]

that's crap.just because other countries do it, does not make it right.

So by going by your scale of GDP, a more fair system would be having prices per nationality?

It's not "crap", it's fact. Granted, some GDP's are crap.

Pricing by income would be even better, but both systems more complicated. The main point is that this is their country and they are entitled to subsidise their citizens as they see fit. All of us not Thai are GUESTS here. We are visitors at someone else's house, if we wish to remain here we have to follow their rules, and it seems quite fair to me.

My point is (to those who oppose the double pricing in Thailand), you are here. For whatever reasons you have chosen Thailand over your own country (for many it has to do with the fact that it's cheaper to live here).

It's just annoying to hear people complain about whether they have to pay 1 or 10 dollars for a park fee entrance. Does it really make a difference in the quality of life you can live here (does it make a difference for the OP who drives a Fortruner)?

Many other issues may seem unfair. I was never able to get a VOA because of my nationality, I now get 30 days on a tourist visa instead of 60. Unfair? Sure. Such is life. Every country has its nuances.

Have to agree with posters above.

Even using your "group" type analysis of oppressor versus oppressed, Thais are not oppressed by Westerners primarily. The global capitalist system can make anybody ruthless enough an oppressor, and by your reasoning it would make more sense to discriminate the most against Japanese as their GDP is larger than that of most European countries, and since Japanese interests in Thailand are probably larger by investment per capita than that of Westerners.

If you add Eastern Europeans into this GDP-based argument, it becomes even more interesting. Your argument is a house of cards that falls apart by just the slightest gust of wind. Your only argument that works is 'it's their country and they can do as they see fit'. But that does not change the fact that the basic policy does discriminate based on race/ethnic origin, and that this practice is wrong.

All of us not Thai are GUESTS here. We are visitors at someone else's house, if we wish to remain here we have to follow their rules, and it seems quite fair to me.

All Arabs are GUESTS in [insert your home country]. They are visitors in someone else's house. If they wish to remain here they have to follow our rules, and it seems fair to me.

I just don't agree, sorry. It's give and take, and the law should not discriminate - even against richer immigrants.

[sriracha john]

no one is being seriously harmed. Smile.

yep...

Racism, grin and bear with it. Admittedly, not an easy thing to do.

[Donz]

no one is being seriously harmed. Smile.

yep...

Racism, grin and bear with it. Admittedly, not an easy thing to do.

lol, some people crack me up

[tamaique]

Ok, if the GDP argument doesn't convince you, cast it out. It was my way of seeing a justification. But you're right, it's not equal for all.

The fact is, as far as I can tell, Thais are making a distinction for the national park fees based on CITIZENS vs FOREIGNERS.

So, following your line of thought, it is unfair that foreigners cannot vote? It is unfair that we need to apply for visas and Thais don't? It is unfair that we can't just come to their country and work legally and they can? I'm sorry but foreigners do have different rights than citizens (everywhere), and it's fair.

All of us not Thai are GUESTS here. We are visitors at someone else's house, if we wish to remain here we have to follow their rules, and it seems quite fair to me.

All Arabs are GUESTS in [insert your home country]. They are visitors in someone else's house. If they wish to remain here they have to follow our rules, and it seems fair to me.

Firstly, "Arabs" does not state a nationality. There are Thai Arabs, Lebanese Arabs, British Arabs, etc. I'm sure ethnically Indian, Arab, Chinese, etc. Thais pay citizen park fees.

It has been stated before in this thread that they require foreigner park fees from other Asians (so definitely not based on race. It's just easier to slip in if you look similar, but that holds true everywhere).

[Bruce1]

How is it racist if its based on whether you pay tax here or not?

[Donz]

People just like to make up things to try and put some blame or racist labels on Thailand.

[chuchok]

no one is being seriously harmed. Smile.

yep...

Racism, grin and bear with it. Admittedly, not an easy thing to do.

lol, some people crack me up

You crack us all up.

[dantilley]

Pricing by income would be even better, but both systems more complicated. The main point is that this is their country and they are entitled to subsidise their citizens as they see fit. All of us not Thai are GUESTS here. We are visitors at someone else's house, if we wish to remain here we have to follow their rules, and it seems quite fair to me.

Everyone does follow the rules. No-one here's advocating barging past the security or sneaking into the parks to avoid paying the fee, are they?

Doesn't change the fact that it's a very greedy, discriminatory, poorly thought out policy. No, it's not the end of the world, but still a valid discussion point.

And does it affect my quality of life? No, but it might affect some people's holiday and their perception of Thailand if they come here and have to pay US$45 for a family of 4 to visit a waterfall, only to find out later that Thai locals paid only $4.50.

[sriracha john]

How is it racist if its based on whether you pay tax here or not?

It's racist when the system is implemented in a racist manner. A review of this and countless other national park threads point out the disparity when foreign whites are charged one rate and foreign Asians of other persuasions besides Thai are charged a different rate. It occurs frequently enough in parks around the country to justify the racist label. It would never occur if the Thai National ID Card check mentioned earlier was implemented.

By the way, it's not based upon whether you pay tax or not. It's supposed to be based upon whether you are a Thai National or not. The occasions when foreign nationals have avoided paying the non-Thai rate by supplying tax records, work permits, drivers licenses, etc. are just further examples of the uneven and inconsistent implementation of what should be a straight-forward system based upon whether or not one is a Thai National.

Edited January 9, 2007 by sriracha john

[chuchok]

If it was all above board,they just might like to show both fees in numerals.They are sneaky pricks, and they know it.

[bmanly]

It would never occur if the Thai National ID Card check mentioned earlier was implemented.

By the way, it's not based upon whether you pay tax or not. It's supposed to be based upon whether you are a Thai National or not.

Yes that's right. The OP wrote this to highlight the discrimination based on race, it had nothing to do with Thai ID cards. People please read again here, the OP was singled out, why? Because he's the farang guy. Then they had the nerve to try charge his Thai born children the farang price too, bloody disgusting!

Thanks for the reply but I think some of are missing the point by bring in university fees etc.

My objection is to the 10X more tariffs for a non Thai citizen.

I do pay may way here in Thailand I have 2 companies, both pay tax. My main company brings in a lot of revenue for Thailand and my personal tax per month is more than a well educated Thai earns a month.

I have two daughters both born here in Thailand and both attend International schools, My wife is Thai and my company employs 18 Thais, all of which had paid ten days holydays over Christmas and New Year.

Even showing my Thai driving licence the well medalled warden still insisted on 400 Bat per adult and 200 Baht for each child even for my Thai kids because his opinion was they looked more FALANG.

You might consider me mean but to pay ten times more in my humble oppinion is a bit of an insult.

This man has a very valid complaint. The system is a rort!

[Jenny18]

Why Falangs Pay Ten Times More Than Thai?

Becasue we are in THEIR country, their rules, accept it or leave!!

I can not belive some people complain about the most irrelevant things in Thailand, when at the same time are enjoying the very good life style that most of the people of first world countries can have here, the women, the islands, the night life, the prices, etc., and many many bennefits that made them chose Thailand and leave their own countries.

So... stop complainning about things like this $10 dollar fee... come on... you know how many thai people will have the chance of visiting your country and do the things you do here, like owning a fancy car and taking fancy holidays.

Be realistic!!

[Axel]

Big font, but not a real explanation.

Where can I find such rules that a foreigner should pay more?

very good life style? Probably not better than in many other places where I lived before.

the women? Ahem, I brought my own.

the islands? What's so special about those islands?

the night life? Disregard the girlie-bars and give me a great place for night life.

the prices? Some lower, some higher than in other countries.

etc.???

and many many bennefits. Like what?

owning a fancy car? Cars are pretty expensive in Thailand, so one might take a cheaper one than at home.

Fancy holidays. To where?

If one works for a Thai company or the government, fine with me to pay ten times more as long as they as well offer a relevant income as well.

Otherwise, I let my Thai staff or friends settle the bill(s) and pay them back. Makes it much cheaper.

[meemiathai]

Why Falangs Pay Ten Times More Than Thai?

Becasue we are in THEIR country, their rules, accept it or leave!!

I can not belive some people complain about the most irrelevant things in Thailand, when at the same time are enjoying the very good life style that most of the people of first world countries can have here, the women, the islands, the night life, the prices, etc., and many many bennefits that made them chose Thailand and leave their own countries.

So... stop complainning about things like this $10 dollar fee... come on... you know how many thai people will have the chance of visiting your country and do the things you do here, like owning a fancy car and taking fancy holidays.

Be realistic!!

I can only say that your post says exactly what has been in my mind from the very begining. It is not going to change anyone's opinion here though. I can't understand why they make a lot more money than the average thais with the same or maybe less amount of effort thus giving them the benefit of enjoying a good lifestyle, yet they still want to fight for things to be cheaper. And some would go as far as to calling that racism.

I mean thais living in their own country, can't they enjoy a little bit more of benefit than the non-thais in their own country?

I have always thought tourists paying more than the locals was a norm everywhere. It was only on here thaivisa.com I learned that there were people complaining about it.

But no one touches my post when I said they had double pricing in Turin, Italy. Why don't you guys say something about it? Free drink coupons were handed over to the hands of the locals outside a night club. We could not have them.

[meemiathai]

-- to not apply this policy consistently, as is done in thailand where only white

faces are picked out for enforcement, further excerbates the feelings of inequality

(everyone is supposed to have IDs on their persons - why not ask for them)

I say again. They charge HK, Japanese, Korean tourists the tourist price as well!!!! Unless they don't know that they are not thais!!! Can you guys hear????????????????????????????????????

On countless personal occasions encountered from National Parks from the North to the South from the East to the West, its precisely these persons, as well as other Asians, that are allowed in at the local Thai price and thus leads to the appearance of racism in the admission fee system.

Can you SJ honestly tell me where these so-called other Asians are from? Did the gate men know they were non-thais?

[meemiathai]

double posted

Edited January 9, 2007 by meemiathai

[chuchok]

Why Falangs Pay Ten Times More Than Thai?

Becasue we are in THEIR country, their rules, accept it or leave!!

I can not belive some people complain about the most irrelevant things in Thailand, when at the same time are enjoying the very good life style that most of the people of first world countries can have here, the women, the islands, the night life, the prices, etc., and many many bennefits that made them chose Thailand and leave their own countries.

So... stop complainning about things like this $10 dollar fee... come on... you know how many thai people will have the chance of visiting your country and do the things you do here, like owning a fancy car and taking fancy holidays.

Be realistic!!

I can only say that your post says exactly what has been in my mind from the very begining. It is not going to change anyone's opinion here though. I can't understand why they make a lot more money than the average thais with the same or maybe less amount of effort thus giving them the benefit of enjoying a good lifestyle, yet they still want to fight for things to be cheaper. And some would go as far as to calling that racism.

I mean thais living in their own country, can't they enjoy a little bit more of benefit than the non-thais in their own country?

I have always thought tourists paying more than the locals was a norm everywhere. It was only on here thaivisa.com I learned that there were people complaining about it.

But no one touches my post when I said they had double pricing in Turin, Italy. Why don't you guys say something about it? Free drink coupons were handed over to the hands of the locals outside a night club. We could not have them.

Double pricing is a little different than ten fold.You get singled out because you are a farang.Racist and wrong.They also try and hide the fact.There are some people here that are not on the pigs back.The only reason why many tourists don't complain,is because they "don't know".

Edited January 9, 2007 by chuchok

[meemiathai]

If the racist components were removed from the state-sanctioned system, it'd be a lot easier to stop blaming racism.

Racism is a tautological issue and it exists everywhere.

I'm afraid we'll get nowhere discussing racism. It can be viewed both ways.

Usually though, racism is most important where prevalant in a stronger group against a weaker group.

Although western foreigners are a minority in Asia, in the grand scheme of things we (and our countries) still constitute the stronger oppresive group.

Quoting Edward Said:

""My contention is that Orientalism is fundamentally a political doctrine willed over the Orient because the Orient was weaker than the West, which elided the Orient’s difference with its weakness. . . . As a cultural apparatus Orientalism is all aggression, activity, judgment, will-to-truth, and knowledge" (Orientalism, p. 204).

What you call racism may actually be the counter-balance achieved by Asians (i.e. Occidentalism).

This position may very well change within our lifetimes.

Great post! Thanks!

[meemiathai]

If the racist components were removed from the state-sanctioned system, it'd be a lot easier to stop blaming racism.

Racism is a tautological issue and it exists everywhere.

I'm afraid we'll get nowhere discussing racism. It can be viewed both ways.

Usually though, racism is most important where prevalant in a stronger group against a weaker group.

Although western foreigners are a minority in Asia, in the grand scheme of things we (and our countries) still constitute the stronger oppresive group.

What you call racism may actually be the counter-balance achieved by Asians (i.e. Occidentalism).

This position may very well change within our lifetimes.

Actually, it's just garden-variety racism. No need to call it something else.

How to end it? Simple.

Check everyone entering National Parks. If they produce a Thai National ID Card, they get in at one rate. If they don't have have one, charge another rate.

That would solve the racism issue, but not necessarily do much to resolve the issue of 10x pricing.

The simple thing here is they have no such so-called racism issue here to solve. They are not going to make such a big fuss out of it just because a few farangs shouted racism. Why, SJ do you really think they charge more because they are racist? Can you not give them the freedom of thinking the Thai way? Does the whole nation need to follow your mentality?

[aaaaaa]

after several years of living in Thailand and experiencing enough situations where I was or could be overpriced, as the subject of this thread discusses it, I've come to certain conclusions:

first of all trivial yet very usefull thing to do is: ask price BEFORE buying!

- yes, I don't like it being overcharged, and I guess I'm not the only such person;

- I live with it. if it is possible to compare the price and point it out to seller - I do that. if it is not or if seller doesn't reduce price to reasonable - most likely I just walk away.

- I can't change that - I mean the system or those people who do overrcharge

therefore:

- I try to change myself, meaning that I try to avoid places, situations and people who who and where and when I might be overcharged.

- I try to find and buy things in places which have normal regular prices.

I think that in ANY country in the world, places which are located in tourist areas and cater for foreigners - always have their prices much higher than local people pay. I'm sure that even local people in those countries - in this case Thais - are often overcharged if they don't know what the actual prices or proper places to do shopping. many cases are published in Thai newspapers or shown on TV when naive (or plainly stupid?) people who comes from provinces are getting cheated by huge variety of con-artists.

I'm curious though if Thai government will takes any steps to correct this issue. let's see....

Edited January 9, 2007 by aaaaaa

[tamaique]

Strong opinions for both sides. Was a fun argument but I don't think it's going to go anywhere from here.

Tada

Some interesting posts surely to come in the next few days after the ammendments to foreign investment in Thailand.

By the way, while we were debating the 10 dollar park fee issue, the US and the world decided to shit on Somalia...

After all, all is not bad in the LoS

[sriracha john]

-- to not apply this policy consistently, as is done in thailand where only white

faces are picked out for enforcement, further excerbates the feelings of inequality

(everyone is supposed to have IDs on their persons - why not ask for them)

I say again. They charge HK, Japanese, Korean tourists the tourist price as well!!!! Unless they don't know that they are not thais!!! Can you guys hear????????????????????????????????????

On countless personal occasions encountered from National Parks from the North to the South from the East to the West, its precisely these persons, as well as other Asians, that are allowed in at the local Thai price and thus leads to the appearance of racism in the admission fee system.

Can you SJ honestly tell me where these so-called other Asians are from? Did the gate men know they were non-thais?

something tells me we've been down this road before...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=69735&view=findpost&p=760620

since the time of our exact same discussion posted above from 8 months ago, you can add Malaysians and even an Chinese-American to the list.

Did the gate men know? Not likely, they didn't ask. That's the whole point. If they're making decisions based on race, it's called racism.

Edited January 9, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

If the racist components were removed from the state-sanctioned system, it'd be a lot easier to stop blaming racism.

Racism is a tautological issue and it exists everywhere.

I'm afraid we'll get nowhere discussing racism. It can be viewed both ways.

Usually though, racism is most important where prevalant in a stronger group against a weaker group.

Although western foreigners are a minority in Asia, in the grand scheme of things we (and our countries) still constitute the stronger oppresive group.

What you call racism may actually be the counter-balance achieved by Asians (i.e. Occidentalism).

This position may very well change within our lifetimes.

Actually, it's just garden-variety racism. No need to call it something else.

How to end it? Simple.

Check everyone entering National Parks. If they produce a Thai National ID Card, they get in at one rate. If they don't have have one, charge another rate.

That would solve the racism issue, but not necessarily do much to resolve the issue of 10x pricing.

The simple thing here is they have no such so-called racism issue here to solve. They are not going to make such a big fuss out of it just because a few farangs shouted racism. Why, SJ do you really think they charge more because they are racist? Can you not give them the freedom of thinking the Thai way? Does the whole nation need to follow your mentality?

let's go back even further into the archives for this one from our mutual discussion 15 months ago:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...&pid=510033

or if you prefer an even longer trip down memory land, this similar one from our posts 24 months ago:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...&pid=260037

as for "shouting"... no one is "shouting"... except for perhaps Jenny18.

Thais, as anyone else, certainly have the freedom to think in whatever manner they choose, but those responsible for the National Park system could learn a lot from their fellow Thai mentioned in Post #98.

Implementing his recommendations solves most of the problems. btw, I agree with all 5 of them.

Edited January 9, 2007 by sriracha john

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

Just don't stand for it, if you know your getting ganked tell them politely "Mung! Ben Heeya Arai??? Pom Meedai quai!" and find someone else, even if it is a pain in the ass don't take racist attacks against you lieing down. And yes I don't care what anyone says, I (unlike most farangs here) have been exposed to racisim all my life I know bigotry when I see it.

Unless it is a national park or other govt, tax sponcered venue that Thai Tax Baht support. Then their should be 1 price period.

And to all you yellow backed spineless bitches who thing we should pay more because we are farangs and we have money...that is even MORE racist than being over charged!!!

I told my Fiance' (Thai) about someone's comment about how we should pay more because we are farang and have money, and she said "What the hel_l??? what like we don't have money? do I look like some chili farmer from Issan? Why do the white man always think he is the only one with money?"

[LinkPopularity]

who invented the TV? who invented the telephone?who invented the modern medicine?who invented the cars?who invented the computers?who invented the democracy?

I think we deserved our place in the world without being discriminated !

stand up for yourself ....

I pay 2 times more, because I'm worth a 100 more ... still hate it anyway !

[Cpt_M0ney_Sh0t]

who invented the TV? who invented the telephone?who invented the modern medicine?who invented the cars?who invented the computers?who invented the democracy?

I think we deserved our place in the world without being discriminated !

stand up for yourself ....

I pay 2 times more, because I'm worth a 100 more ... still hate it anyway !

And people like you are exactly why you are discriminated against. Did YOU invent the TV or the telephone or anything for that matter? As if to think your blood makes you worth more than the next man..only to a terrorist in Iraq with a orange suit to fit you in perhaps. But in reality it's word and deed (and more importantly how well they match up) that makes one man better than the next. Think about that the next time you let some one worth "100 times less" than you steal your money.

[pampal]

who invented the TV? who invented the telephone?who invented the modern medicine?who invented the cars?who invented the computers?who invented the democracy?

I think we deserved our place in the world without being discriminated !

stand up for yourself ....

I pay 2 times more, because I'm worth a 100 more ... still hate it anyway !

Who flooded China with opium?

Who took Hong Kong from China?

Who practices gunboat diplomacy?

Who invaded Iraq for it's oil and military bases?

Who withdrew aid from the Phillipine because their rapist soldier was being held in jail there?

Who drew up arbitrary borders in the middle east and africa which has led to a century of bloodshed?

Who bombs innocent women and children and calls it collateral damage?

Would you like to venture a guess?

Edited January 10, 2007 by pampal

[meadish_sweetball]

Now we're drifting off topic again.

I've cleaned up a little to avoid this trail to continue.

Please get back to two tiered pricing... in Thailand.

The historical merits and misdeeds of Western civilization can be discussed endlessly - but not here, please.

[tom yum goong]

I told my Fiance' (Thai) about someone's comment about how we should pay more because we are farang and have money, and she said "What the hel_l??? what like we don't have money? do I look like some chili farmer from Issan? Why do the white man always think he is the only one with money?"

i'm sorry but this is a typically racist remark also.

is ur fiance one of those bangkok Thais who denies that Thailand is a poor country and points to all the mercs and bmws on the streets of bangkok as evidence of the country's wealth?

[In the Rai!]

Overpricing is not just stand alone in Thailand. Our own countries have been doing this for years. You only have to look at hotel pricing of mini-bars or airport pricing. praying on tourists or I would go as far as saying Lazy people who could not be bothered leaving their rooms to walk to the nearest 7/11 to pay a 3rd of the price.

It is not racism, it is merely an opportunity to make cash because people are willing to pay it. As for the national park taxes. If you can show work permits than you dont have to pay farang prices (you will pay Thai prices)

remember you have a choice. If you go to touristy areas than expect to pay tourist prices.