Girls Point Of View - Are Prostitutes Annoying?

[F1fanatic]

Exactly , because perverts who molest young girls young enough to be there granddaughters, let alone daughter offer them Half a months wages, Not misconception , How many would stay just for the Sun sea and sand. Not a lot they are sex tourists. There should be an Internet site that puts mens photos on that use the girls , just like the men who post the picturs of there latest abuse girl,

Nice to see another narrow minded, hypocritical bigot here spouting off. I just KNEW there are people around who hate sex, and everyone who DOES enjoy sex.

You're joking of course.

Thongkorn is, presumably, a tourist and not used to the sights to which we are all inured (and some need to see in order to justify their own lives here). As I said in a previous post, I felt exactly the same way as a tourist.

However, as an ex-pat of a few years I understand that BOTH parties get exactly what they want from the relationship. Sex-pats is a v accurate description, but its not exploitative as the women involved (they may look like girls, but they are normally women) have far more control over what's going on than the men (in most cases).

To imply that those who find it distasteful just hate sex is not only 'spin', but also trying to stretch credibility beyond what is acceptable.

Edited February 7, 2010 by F1fanatic

[IanForbes]

Exactly , because perverts who molest young girls young enough to be there granddaughters, let alone daughter offer them Half a months wages, Not misconception , How many would stay just for the Sun sea and sand. Not a lot they are sex tourists. There should be an Internet site that puts mens photos on that use the girls , just like the men who post the picturs of there latest abuse girl,

Nice to see another narrow minded, hypocritical bigot here spouting off. I just KNEW there are people around who hate sex, and everyone who DOES enjoy sex.

You're joking of course.

Thongkorn is, presumably, a tourist and not used to the sights to which we are all inured (and some need to see in order to justify their own lives here). As I said in a previous post, I felt exactly the same way as a tourist.

However, as an ex-pat of a few years I understand that BOTH parties get exactly what they want from the relationship. Sex-pats is a v accurate description, but its not exploitative as the women involved (they may look like girls, but they are normally women) have far more control over what's going on than the men (in most cases).

To imply that those who find it distasteful just hate sex is not only 'spin', but also trying to stretch credibility beyond what is acceptable.

No, I wasn't joking, F1fanatic. If Thongkorn can call someone he doesn't know "a pervert", then it's perfectly acceptible to call him a narrow minded bigot who looks at sex as something dirty. Assumptions are something that people should keep to themselves until they know better. I've changed many of my former assumptions 180 degrees after I actually saw what was going on. But, I was taught a long time ago that if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.

But, if you DO open your mouth and put your foot in it, then you'll have to live with the consequences.

And, I agree with you about the sex-pats comment.

[Lovedog100]

Exactly , because perverts who molest young girls young enough to be there granddaughters, let alone daughter offer them Half a months wages, Not misconception , How many would stay just for the Sun sea and sand. Not a lot they are sex tourists. There should be an Internet site that puts mens photos on that use the girls , just like the men who post the picturs of there latest abuse girl,

Nice to see another narrow minded, hypocritical bigot here spouting off. I just KNEW there are people around who hate sex, and everyone who DOES enjoy sex.

You're joking of course.

Thongkorn is, presumably, a tourist and not used to the sights to which we are all inured (and some need to see in order to justify their own lives here). As I said in a previous post, I felt exactly the same way as a tourist.

However, as an ex-pat of a few years I understand that BOTH parties get exactly what they want from the relationship. Sex-pats is a v accurate description, but its not exploitative as the women involved (they may look like girls, but they are normally women) have far more control over what's going on than the men (in most cases).

To imply that those who find it distasteful just hate sex is not only 'spin', but also trying to stretch credibility beyond what is acceptable.

No, I wasn't joking, F1fanatic. If Thongkorn can call someone he doesn't know "a pervert", then it's perfectly acceptible to call him a narrow minded bigot who looks at sex as something dirty. Assumptions are something that people should keep to themselves until they know better. I've changed many of my former assumptions 180 degrees after I actually saw what was going on. But, I was taught a long time ago that if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all.

But, if you DO open your mouth and put your foot in it, then you'll have to live with the consequences.

And, I agree with you about the sex-pats comment.

Well said

[sbk]

Anyway.

Phuket is a big island and there really is no need to hang out in Patong. Having been to Patong, I am not sure why anyone would even want to go there anyway. Beach is nice but thats about it. Between the touts, the tuk tuk drivers and the generally fairly sleazy atmosphere, Phuket has many much nicer places to stay and to go out to.

As for the girls in the bars, well, they are doing their job, doubt they'll give you any hassle so long as you are polite and friendly. But if it makes you uncomfortable I am sure you can post in the Phuket forum to find out locations of bars which do not have working girls.

[shikonjewel]

To the OP,

On my short time I spent in Phuket with my bf we had a good time and were never bothered by that sort of thing! There are a bunch of things to do and see where you don't even really see that side of night-life... I think I recognized that side once when we took a wrong turn and another time I think was when I was in Koh Samui... and I didn't even see it at all in BKK.. anyway it's only there if your looking for it so I wouldn't worry about it. We did alot of stuff during the day so by 9 o'clock we were exhausted half the time anyway to bother going clubbing. Go snorkeling and to see the islands (Phi Phi etc.) surrounding! So beautiful.. also check out the Phuket-fantasea! It's this big show with acrobats, thai dancing, elephants.. beware the song playing throughout the park tho, it's catchy at first but gets annoying fast. lol Go see a Muay Thai fight if he's into that sort of thing...

Anyway my point is that theres so much to do and experience Thailand! Don't worry, just enjoy your trip together!

[MAJIC]

I remember when I used to holiday here (but we never went to bars), and we found the old farangs with young Thai women revolting, but managed to put it out of our mind (s?).

We always found that couples who find old farangs with thai women revolting were revolting themselves.

Agreed.

What the OP really means is: how dare you older guys escape from my fat old western sisters clutches

[MAJIC]

Maybe if people really understood why some of these girls do what they do, is to Live , Not because they like doing what they do I see it as Abuse to girls by perverts, Sorry just my view not intended to flame.Obviously a girl should have a more sympathetic outlook and not be to Judgmental on first looks.

Are these the bitter words of the rejected?

And what about the hundreds of thousands of western men, married to Thai Ladies and have children? are they also perverts?

[StreetCowboy]

I must confess, I'm one of those short sighted people who hadn't realised that the most of us are simply there to provide aesthetically pleasing views to judgemental individuals who lack the empathy to walk in another's shoes.

I laughed.

I don't think he was joking. I think he really has come to realise the importance of looking his best, out of consideration to others. As I recently posted on another topic, most of us really do appreciate an effort by others to look their best, even though we know that beauty is skin-deep (or shallower) although a good bone structure and exercise do help. And as Thais know, a calm and friendly manner goes a long way to making others calmer and friendlier.

I hope that the OP will not restrict his efforts to look better only for judgemental people who lack empathy; most of us appreciate beauty as well as grace and humour and generosity and the many other endearing characteristics that some individuals may be blessed with, and others may aspire to.

But my apologies, as this is quite a long way off topic.

If it was up to me, all the hookers would be cleared off sukhumvit road, but having said that, many of the girls loitering there are of the more monstrous countenance and I guess that they are sponsored by the Salvation Army to remind us of the perils of strong drink. I think actually the mucky DVDs that are on sale could be more offensive to those with children... In an ideal world, it would be easy to find what you want, and easy not to find what you did not want; and I think Bangkok achieves a compromise between those two better than most places.

SC

SC

[eek]

I remember when I used to holiday here (but we never went to bars), and we found the old farangs with young Thai women revolting, but managed to put it out of our mind (s?).

We always found that couples who find old farangs with thai women revolting were revolting themselves.

Agreed.

What the OP really means is: how dare you older guys escape from my fat old western sisters clutches

Uh huh..because so many of the "hansum men" who hang out in bars with prostitutes with their balding heads, bad breath, beer guts, and dire sense of humour, are such a tragic loss to women in the west.

Ho hum.

[StreetCowboy]

8>< SNIP Nested quotes removed ><8

... (clause deleted to improve understanding) .... with prostitutes with their balding heads, bad breath, beer guts, and dire sense of humour....

Maybe you want to edit your post to avoid misunderstanding. But I feel I must correct you as written; with the exception of the girls actually standing on Sukhumvit Road, I have never met a prostitute in Thailand with a bald head, bad breath has never been a significant problem and it would be the pot calling the kettle black to complain about a little roll on the tummy when seated. Many of the girls verge on the scrawny, I would say, and I suspect it is your wit that is lacking, not their sense of humour. And indeed, when there is money at stake, most of the girls go to great lengths to conceal any shortcomings in the humour department, even in the face of the most obscure pun or ... sorry, my vocabulary fails me... culturally-specific humour...

I think for the want of a comma, you have grossly maligned some of the sweetest girls in the world,

SC

[eek]

Oh my apologies. I forgot that grammar police patrol this forum and get their knickers in a twist over these things. Granted my grammar isnt great, but im sure you are intellegent enough to work out what i meant. ...which, i may add, was purely a retort. Many men in this forum love to get in childish little digs about western women. Funny how you focus on my post but have no comment on the reason for my post.. Says a lot really. Anyway, as im sitting im a cafe and using a tiny screen keyboard on my phone to type this, best i go back to enjoying my coffee. -...dont want to be making anymore serious type-o's!

[sbk]

And yet, and yet, still had to get in a dig.

drop the nasty crap in the ladies forum thanks, I am not in the most tolerant mood.

[StreetCowboy]

Oh my apologies. I forgot that grammar police patrol this forum and get their knickers in a twist over these things. Granted my grammar isnt great, but im sure you are intellegent enough to work out what i meant. ...which, i may add, was purely a retort. Many men in this forum love to get in childish little digs about western women. Funny how you focus on my post but have no comment on the reason for my post.. Says a lot really. Anyway, as im sitting im a cafe and using a tiny screen keyboard on my phone to type this, best i go back to enjoying my coffee. -...dont want to be making anymore serious type-o's!

My apologies for any offense caused. A simple "Eff off you boring pedantic B" would have sufficed.

Interpereting your post in the spirit it was intended - the fat ugly old gits that you target as no loss to Western women may be of little loss to you, but I am sure that in many cases for every fat ugly old git here there may a disappointed fat old hag back home (my apologies for the prejorative language which will have people up in arms, no doubt, but the point is that regardless of how we view people, they all have their own peers, amongst whom they are normal...). In my view it would make Thailand a nicer country, and I doubt I would notice the difference to the UK, if they all went home (I wouldn't notice the difference in Sweden or Germany at all, since I do not visit those countries, not because their Nationals are any different from the British); but that is just me being selfish. And from a short-sighted and narrow-minded point of view, it would make the gogo bars more visually appealing in the short term, the financial impact would probably threaten their very existance, and the livelihoods of thousands.

And I should remind myself of pots and kettles.

I always enjoy your posts, Eek, and I am sorry for the offiense caused.

And trying to make a link back to the original topic; I have discussed this similar issue with a friend of mine years ago - a fat old English git with a wife back home and a steady Thai rented (leased, rather than rented, I suppose) girlfriend, as it happens, and he reckoned that his daughter took greater offense than his wife when they saw middle-aged men with young ladies.

I suppose one of the things that would be distressing would be the fact that in so many otherwise normal-looking bars, the staff are available. I've never really explored the limits of this, as there are plenty of bars which are very clearly either one thing or another, but it would be very easy for an innocent tourist to walk into somewhere in the middle, and worry whenever their husband / boyfriend came home from a night out with the boys inappropriately sober / drunk.

SC

[eek]

My apologies for any offense caused. A simple "Eff off you boring pedantic B" would have sufficed.

Haha. Actually, those kinds of expressions are just not in vocabulary. I shocked a friend the other day when i came out with "ignorant b****!" , when a woman in a pickup truck nearly ran us over(edit..MUST put comma in here lol!), whilst (edit: WE were)walking down a side street with no pavement. My friend was startled because its just not that common for me to cuss.. Mind you, my language is getting more colourful since driving in Thai traffic..but usually under my breath. Better watch myself before it starts becoming the norm.( i probably messed up a lot grammar-wise..but i give up!)

I know topics on this forum can get heated, and its part of what makes it an interesting place to visit. I know us ladies can get mean about men, but in our defense its usually in retaliation. Not that that is helpful, it just makes things go round in circles, but it IS hard to keep biting our lips so to speak (or at least for me, as I should only really speak for myself). There are many times i just ignore a dig and move on, but other times it gets under my skin. Particularly comments in the Ladies forum, which is kind of our little haven. Its tiring to read numerous negative comments about western women. Im sure Thai women feel the same about the stereotypes about them. hel_l, im sure men here are tired of being stereotyped too! In an ideal world we would all be respectful to each other, but unfortunately we need more practice.

..and i know my grammar DOES stink..but so often i just type out my thoughts without checking. Bad form..but even if i did check, id likely still have a ton of mistakes anyway. Thats why im not in Thailand as an English teacher!

Im waffling on..and its all off topic..so ill just shut up now..

Edited February 10, 2010 by eek

[MAJIC]

And yet, and yet, still had to get in a dig.

drop the nasty crap in the ladies forum thanks, I am not in the most tolerant mood.

When it comes to "Nasty crap" I think the women on this thread are more than capable of replying in kind,or indeed

instigating it!

Cant recall ever seeing you in a tolerant mood either.

[StreetCowboy]

And yet, and yet, still had to get in a dig.

drop the nasty crap in the ladies forum thanks, I am not in the most tolerant mood.

When it comes to "Nasty crap" I think the women on this thread are more than capable of replying in kind,or indeed

instigating it!

Cant recall ever seeing you in a tolerant mood either.

Please try to keep on topic, by at least including a comment that could be linked back to the original topic, rather than wandering off into some personal war with your old flames.

The topic is one that is of interest to men and women alike - how do women perceive the prostitutes here?

My apologies for voicing my own views, but as a family man they may be of some relevance.

SC

[eek]

And yet, and yet, still had to get in a dig.

drop the nasty crap in the ladies forum thanks, I am not in the most tolerant mood.

When it comes to "Nasty crap" I think the women on this thread are more than capable of replying in kind,or indeed

instigating it!

Cant recall ever seeing you in a tolerant mood either.

Sorry that im off topic but i really need to say something about that..

MAJIC, sbk is one of the few female moderators on the board. The board unfortunately has a good fair share of men who make snide comments about women (of all races), some of the stronger comments im sure we dont even get to see because they are reported and removed. It must turn the female moderators stomachs to have to deal with that on a daily basis. I know its hard for me sometimes just as a user. As a moderator she will of course come down hard, but im surprised by your comment of sbk never being in a tolerant mood. She often jokes around in the forum. But I guess, as a moderator, you will probably see more of her harsher moderating posts, than posts which show her sense of humour and good nature. Its a shame really, because once you see that side, you really do see a lovely lady with a wicked sense of humour.

Anyway, no antagonism meant.

Sorry to the OP for being off topic again.

[britmaveric]

Well I wish a world that everyone can get along... farang/thai, thai\thai, and farang/farang. Tolerance is the key to living in harmony.

[eurasianthai]

Tolerance is the key to living in harmony.

Indeed.

And understanding that what people do is based on their background, education, and situation, not yours...

Edited February 10, 2010 by eurasianthai

[StreetCowboy]

Tolerance is the key to living in harmony.

Indeed.

And understanding that what people do is based on their background, education, and situation, not yours...

Tolerance is precisely that, though; a limit within which things are acceptable. I imagine many farang ladies will find the highly visible presence of prostitutes in e.g. Bangkok and Phuket distressing or annoying. Not necessarily from a prudish, puritanical perspective, but from an awareness that the easily led, the immature, the intoxicated or other vulnerable groups could be led astray. Some may find the presence of prostitutes here annoying, but tolerable; others may find it otherwise, and never come back after a first visit.

And while they may have a great deal of faith in their partner's resolve, and wish to proceed as if such temptations do not exist, that is difficult in some places in Thailand - some places where it is easy for the unsuspecting to stray. Similarly, their partners may wish to proceed as if such temptations did not exist - it is far easier to resist a temptation that you do not see...

SC

[MAJIC]

I remember when I used to holiday here (but we never went to bars), and we found the old farangs with young Thai women revolting, but managed to put it out of our mind (s?).

We always found that couples who find old farangs with thai women revolting were revolting themselves.

Agreed.

What the OP really means is: how dare you older guys escape from my fat old western sisters clutches

Uh huh..because so many of the "hansum men" who hang out in bars with prostitutes with their balding heads, bad breath, beer guts, and dire sense of humour, are such a tragic loss to women in the west.

Ho hum.

eeK You missed the point, western men in Thailand have turned their backs on your sisters at home,this is our Disney land,so dream on if you think you can change how it is by bitchy posts. We dont care what you think.

[britmaveric]

^well MAJIC you did start things off by slagging western ladies. eeK is quite a lovely person as SBK. Remember some of us have sisters/mums/other reles and gfs who might be western born/raised. So insulting and being disrespectful towards them is highly objectionable. Now eek was responding to the rude comment you made. She knows as well as we do that not all "hansum men who hang out in bars with prostitutes are balding heads, bad breath, beer guts, and dire sense of humour, are such a tragic loss to women in the west"

Fine if you have no interest in western ladies, as they may have no interest in you. However it doesnt mean you can't be civil and respectful towards one another.

[sbk]

I read Majic's posts and was ready to pull out the mod stick but I see britmaverick has answered him beautifully. Cheers Brit. It's good to see who the gentlemen really are.

[eek]

eeK You missed the point, western men in Thailand have turned their backs on your sisters at home,this is our Disney land,so dream on if you think you can change how it is by bitchy posts. We dont care what you think.

No MAJIC, you missed the point. My point was that us "Western" Women dont actually lament the loss of men who have forgotten how to be gentlemen. Call me bitchy if you like, but my comment was in retaliation. I am far from being a bitch or bitchy, ask anyone who knows me, but i am not a doormat either. Nasty comments are nasty comments, and sometimes showing someone a mirror- so to speak, is called for.

Anyway, pigeon-holing all western women is hysterical imo. We come from so many different backgrounds. I was brought up in a small town in Scotland but in an Italian family,with the traditional roles of women drummed into me. A very repressive upbringing. But had an opportunity to study abroad, and after tasting that, I broke free to travel and experience life. Ive lived in other countries. Even countries that some say are quite male dominated such as Argentina. But only in Thailand have I felt this ridiculous chip on western mens shoulder thing..purely based on my appearance/colour of a my skin...because of whatever negative association i represent. THankfully i havent personally experienced it often, certainly not strongly, but it of course exists...especially within this forum. Isnt it about time those kinds of men learned to let go of this prejudice?

Anyway...its good to read the male pov, but I cant understand the need for constantly dropping in negative comments against women from their own backgrounds. I can only say im sorry men had such terrible experiences with women...for whatever reason.

As sbk said, its lovely to have gentlemen around, thank you Brit for replying from a male pov in such a considerate way. Appreciated.

[Boo]

eek there is no need to justify your opinion on men who are unable to be civil. On thaivisa women have a voice so if a poster wishes to post some drivel about {western} women then they need to be able to handle being pulled up on it. No need AT ALL to bite your tongue cause if they learned to keep their petty opinions off this forum then there would be no need for "us" to be "bitchy" to them (funny how the word bitchy is bandied around & yet what are these "men" being when making rude & offensive comments about women?)

Majic, If you are unable to be civil then go elsewhere, the ladies forum is not your soap box so either follow our rules or leave.

[StreetCowboy]

eek there is no need to justify your opinion on men who are unable to be civil. On thaivisa women have a voice so if a poster wishes to post some drivel about {western} women then they need to be able to handle being pulled up on it. No need AT ALL to bite your tongue cause if they learned to keep their petty opinions off this forum then there would be no need for "us" to be "bitchy" to them (funny how the word bitchy is bandied around & yet what are these "men" being when making rude & offensive comments about women?)

Majic, If you are unable to be civil then go elsewhere, the ladies forum is not your soap box so either follow our rules or leave.

? Is that a "yes, they are annoying", or "No, but there are other more annoying people in Thailand.." ?

I suppose for normal people, and particularly tourist couples, the sight of the customers of prostitutes may be embaressing, rather than annoying, in that 'normal' tourists may be embaressed at the image that they fear the customers transmit of farangs as a whole.

I wonder how much exposure bar girls get to normal westerners?

SC

[fletchsmile]

^sure I am amicable to everyone I meet and I have no problem chatting to anyone you describe. Looks fade away - what is on the inside is what matters most to people.

Yes, and what's in the 'inside' of most old farang/young Thai woman relationships is money. In fact any relationship involving a farang/thai.

You think otherwise.

Most of us who have been here for a while think otherwise.

Two revelations in one day....

In my short-sightedness I'd never seen that "any relationship involving a farang/ thai" has money "inside" it. So my wife, family, friends are all really just after my money? It seems I simply haven't been here "for a while" like "most" of you. I shall look at Thailand in a whole new light in future... thank you.

I'd be grateful for one small clarification. Does that apply to my children as well? They're only half Thai. Does that mean they are only partially in it for the money?

Perhaps I should start to wander and move on again. I'm obviously not seeing Thailand the I "should", and my thoughts tend to echo people like Britmaverics'.

Good grief - how sensitive are you on this subject??? And why?

...

Somewhat ironic. It's not a subject I feel particularly "sensitive" about. I was more of the view the sensitivities were more on the part of those going around judging and taking swipes at people - perhaps projecting their own frustrations. Thailand is an excellent country in many ways for reflecting peoples thoughts back on themselves. Some of the comments on here are just so ridiculously intolerant and bigoted from both guys and women.

To OP,

I would say you'll be as bothered by it all as you want to be. Come to Thailand with an open mind, and you'll hopefully return with an even more open one. Thailand is an excellent opportunity to develop empathy for others and make you appreciate what you have.

"All that is gold does not glister"

My tip would be: There is a fantastic amount to see in Thailand with your eyes. There's even more to look at with your hear and mind.

Do you think when they were growing up the Thai girl dreamt of being a prostitute? or as a child, the farang tourist dreamt of being "a fat ugly balding tourist seeking a relationship /comfort in a bar in Thailand" to use a stereotype often used on here.

When you see a deformed or maimed beggar on the street, you can turn away in disgust, or you can stop and think about life. It's all your choice really...

Edited February 11, 2010 by fletchsmile

[mark45y]

Thailand hasn’t changed much. There were the same % of pay for play ladies in the 1500’s, 1930’s or 1950’s. The only thing that has changed is the population. In the 1500’s, 1930’s or 1950’s almost all the visitors to Thailand were men so no one asked the same kind of questions as the OP.

Thailand now has the same kind of reputation as Shanghai in the 1930’s. I can’t for the life of me see why a woman would want to come here. I understand and have read about why women went to Shanghai in the 1930’s and I completely agree with those reasons. I don’t know the demographics of this forum but I would imagine it is 95 men to five women. I know the guys come for the mineral springs but, hey why are those five ladies here?

So, in answer to the OP’s question. Give Thailand a pass unless you are the adventurous kind who would have liked Shanghai in the 30’s.

The only reason I am telling you is that PC forbids the women here from telling you and the men who are gentlemen are being too nice to tell you.

The only good reason for a woman to bring a man to Thailand is to get rid of him. And in that case it is very easy to accomplish the objective.

If you do come to Thailand with your man there is a good chance your relationship will end. When it does think back to reading this post and say to yourself, "there was one guy who told the truth about Thailand."

[eek]

mark..im sorry, but I believe you are talking through a hole in your ..head.

I dont know where you live, but I know MANY couples in Chiang Mai. Farang/farang and Thaiman/farang woman. It also may come as a shock to you (guys who are only into Thai women and Asiaphiles etc usually do find this a shock..and usually dispute it as its incomprehensible to them), but there are many men who just arent attracted to Thai women. I know many women who came here by choice, and who stay here by choice, myself included. Im guessing you dont know or talk to that many western female expats here, or you would have a better understanding of why women like me enjoy living here. I know farang couples that came here together and are happy together, and i know farang couples that met whilst here. Also, there are western women who come initially with no intention of staying on, but enjoy the Thai way and fall for the charm and good manners of a Thai man. Some women are happy solo and enjoy casual dating both farang and Thai men (another shock horror). Wherever have you garnered your information from? The recesses of your mind??

[Lancelot]

There are some hot western girls in Thailand. I doubt that they have much trouble getting a date

With respect to the OP, I seriously doubt that many Thai bar girls are that interested in stealing a western ladies guy. There are too many easier pickings around that buy into the "Handsome Man" routine