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Ripley, the best approach is to appoint a good international property management company (as there are no consistently good local ones). They have the skills, however as 99.9% of condo owners want to pay the least amount possible by way of fees, the quality of management staff is often quite poor.

The solution is to pay higher CAM fees and hire an international company with expat staff and oversight (basically career and trained asset mangers - not a nice lady turning her hand to it!) and make sure you receive international standard quality.

Having the Developer stay long after completion tends not to work as they have limited financial incentive, and it means that they are forever expected to handle defects for eternity! Quite a few developers do this (to protect their unsold units) and it is one of the major causes of upset.

Without exception, bidding for property management companies here comes down to pricing - lowest price wins - the owners through greed and narrow mindedness complain about poor service and never question their own decision making process. Dare I say this is, but the problem is most common in buidlings densely populated by owners that inherited their wealth and did not have to figure out real world economics and therefore see management staff as modern day slaves.

If you follow the property news you will see a few clear trends, notably that developers are down-sizing unit sizes for houses and condos, seeking the lowest possible constuction and sales prices and ensuring 90 - 100% mortgages remain available for buyers.

We are effectively seeing deflation of the property market indicated by the nature of the supply trend. The higher end of the market has in fact peaked - due to almost no new demand from end users (i.e fewer speculators now at the high end). The foreign buying trend is off sharply due to exchange rates and lack of finacing, lack of end user demand and is not expected to return any time soon.

Be assured that we face a major correction here.

I don't mean to sound awful, but I think this question resonates best with two groups, group (1) - retirees that have the finances / pensions etc from a career in the West and are looking for the quiet life, not very materialistic in their needs etc, and group (2) - Less wealthy young males, who don't have the best of things in the UK anyway, limited job prospects here or there and living here is genuinely better at that level.

For sucessfull and wealthy expats it is not all that here anymore. There are limted education choices for kids - assuming that you wish your kids to receive the same quality of (private) education that you benefited from. Home ownership and the rule of law is better in the UK. A super car here costs upwards of 10 million baht vs 1 - 2 mil in the UK. But groups 1 & 2 above aren't in to the cars anyway as group 1 has grown out of them and group 2 could never have had one anyway, so this point has no relevance for most. Neither group 1 or 2 is likley to have child dependants - again, a big factor in the OP's question in terms of releveance.

Property, we can't own a big house here (freehold) and a condo that a 30 - 40 year high flyer woudl live in in the West is expensive here, circa 25 - 30 ++ mil cash. No mortgages, so cash only. Again, groups 1 & 2 above, can in group 1 buy a good condo (with a lifetimes savings) or rent, and group 2 can rent from THB 20 to 50k and even at the lower end it beats a council flat in Peckham..

So what's missing? the wealthy younger set with a caree in th eprofessions is almost non exsitent here - unlike Hong Kong or SIngapore where wealthy younger expats flourish, and groups 1 & 2 are almost non existent.

Now you may have your answer.

<P>Exporters have made massive revenues through forex gain. This is evidenced in part by the surge in super car showrooms around Bangkok and high end condo sales in the local (I said local as in - not Pattaya or farang leasehold villa rubbish ok) sector where sales are rapid. <BR><BR>Tourism will decline as will foreign property investment.<BR><BR>Its all due to QE1 and QE2 in the US. There is little that can be done, and the US story is far, far from over, so its best to not react yet anyway with any intervention.<BR></P>

Naam - are you serioulsy betting against gold? or is this all a cover for a secret gold horder?

It seems reasonably likley we will see 19,000 before years end based on the evidence not discusssed in the main stream media.

Are you equally anti silver?

Find a donor car along the lines of how Catreham's were intially made - so a Ford escort etc. Then with the existing chassis and engine you can bolt the new body on top. Retain the original reg plate and car colour and this helps as well as no need to apply for a colour change etc.

Easier may be a Bettle swap out to a 356 or spider, just needs a chassis shortening, but a more natural fit.

As I undersatnd its chassis and engines that need to match + registraion number etc, but i could be wrong and I would not bother anyway.

have you figured out yet what is the common property?

And ultimately I suggest that you sell and do better due dilligence next time. The first rule is find out who built it and are they still around. Best to avoid chinese 'family' developer buildings, where the family still has an on-going interest as you will get treated like a tenant.

have you established when the next AGM is? have you talked with other co-owners about this? investigted the potential for an EGM to stop the developer from proceeding etc etc?

Rents are going down whilst supply has seen a massive increase. Sales values have dropped off slightly, but not at the very premium high end.

Huge villa 600sqm covered area 480sqm airco space.. On a golf course..

Couple of years ago asking 38 mil planning to take 32 - 34..

Got a 28 mil offer and turned it down..

Progressive went 26 24 and recently is asking 18m.

I was told just yesterday its under offer at 12 million and the owner is seriously considering it.. 38 to 12 !!

Maybe you meant premium being above 38 million but its still not a bad indicator.

@ LininLos -

No, the resort style premium end has a broad range that starts at 'international grade' pemium and goes down to 'wishful thinking premium' - I would class this in the wishful thinking bracket by the sound of it. Golf course developments simply have not worked here, aside from a very few in Bangkok. And none of these are premium high end.

I thought this article was referring to Bangkok anyway, where the real high end has held up in terms of asking prices as evidenced at Saladaeng Residnences, Infinty, St Regis etc etc.

@ Ripley - Committee members should not under any circumstances be paid, as this would lead to all free-loaders looking to be on the committees to earn money and provide no effort and with no oversight. A relative of an owner could be voted on just to get money.

It is, and has to remain, a community service based concept - without pay. The benefit is the protection of your personal and common assets, i.e the buidling, controlled maintenance costs and unit resale values etc.

If nobody wants to be on the new committee after 4 years then the previous committee can continue, so if nobody new wants to put in the effort they can continue. If the old group wants out and there are no replacements, then you need to accept that you are in the wrong building and a decline is inevitable - or make the effort yourself.

If you pushed this point on payment, and by some mircale the act changed, be assured the law would allow for locals only to be paid.

Silver's main industrial use has been in photography, but that is falling as digital imaging takes over.

...and its used in minute quantities in all mobile phones, it has unique medical and hygene properties, is critical is enabling solar power to work and there is less of it in existence than gold. A wide range of high tech industrial processess require silver, and once used is lost pernamently.

Do your homework - you will miss the boat on this one.

Rents are going down whilst supply has seen a massive increase. Sales values have dropped off slightly, but not at the very premium high end.

Numbers of expats are dropping as well and this not likley to change, so rents will remain too cheap compared to buying for many years to come.

The one bed, high density, prison - condo - combo's much touted by the leading developers are going to suffer with oversupply, rising interest rates, declining salaries and declining exports soon.

Good luck speculators!

Rama 3 was one of the few really free flowing roads in the downtown, now ruined and made far more dangerous by this comical bus route.

Clearly a badly concieved idea, but one which can never be admitted to.

They should use the buses as normal bus routes and replace the ancient junk buses now on the roads, demolish the barrier to the bus lane and convert the staions for use as a light rail by inverting the platfroms, with the rail over the klong that is on the whole route.

Yes its going to cost more money but I am told the economy is booming here.

Most foreign buyers in phuket are from Hong Kong and have not suffered at all with the ongoing global economic sitution, do not have 401 k's to worry about (as they are mostly not Americans), do not have mortgages and purchased with cash. Cash that they would rather park in real estate than leave as cash in a currency backed by the USD.

Yes there is a lot of unsold and over valued property in Phuket - the end result is - so what? markets are cyclical and eventualy the Phuket market will return. In the meantime existing owners have a nice holiday home.

For those that have to sell, the story is different, but as the wider trend is not to devalue, as its not for sale, as there is no pressure to sell, then it is hard for people to crash their investment.

In this instance a lack of demand does not lead to a market crash.

However, if the HK economy was to falter it would have a dramatic impact on the Phkt market...

Yes Thai's are buying these condo boxes in droves because the down payment is very small, mortgages are handed out with ease and the media tells them to buy. Developers are competing to make ever smaller unit sizes and resultant gross sales prices lower - all this is leading to a market crisis as developers and buyers are chasing the market down.

Why? well, as a huge proportion of the units will not be occupied, can not be rented and offer no long term capital appeciation as there is no scacity of supply.

I assume you have not been provided with a lease that answers these questions?

If it is a 30 year term the rent should be paid upfront. It can be in a farang name. If you cancel early, expect to lose what you have paid. If you are paying monthly then its not a 30 year lease, but most likley a 3 or 3+3 etc (but not greater than 9) - beware if you take this on monthly and make necessary upgrades etc as you may not receive the renewal if they want it back.

This type of structure costs approx THB 2.4 to build, so any changes you make should not be an issue. Use your own contractor.

Check things like A/C units being installed, a kitchen that is usable and real toilets (not squatters) - the local spec will potentially be dire.

It sounds off-plan? a risk of being isolated if others don't occupy.

Two comments - Firtsly mainland Chinese are NOT buying property here in any sort of trend. Just becasue you see some tourists does not make them a new demographic market! Indians are not buying either, I am really lost at what people think is taking place.

Secondly - As most Phuket villa owners do not have mortgages on their property they are not under the traditional pressure to sell. No risk or repossesion etc. Therefore, until or unless their domestic overseas home markets crash and places pressue on the owners collectively and simultaneously - do not expect prices to drop uniformly.

Surely if the fabled new chinese or Indians were in fact buying, then the glut of overpriced and unsold property would have sold and there would be no problems with a lack of demand? The reality is that the gross volume of unsold and built villas / condos in the resorts is not in the high thousands, so any new cash in hand buying group could solve the crisis almost immediately Also, as Thai's are very unlikely to co habitate in condos with ethnic Indians, and mainland chinese can't speak a word of english or Thai, please eductae me with how the buggerey this scenario is playing out??

This topic and the issues surrounding committees will grow and grow as there are so many new condo buildings coming on line. There are huge cultural barriers in committee's and it can be just as bad having aged hi-so locals as having aged semi-retired Americans. These two groups I find to be the most probelmatic and for different reasons.

Step one - Appoint a very good managemnt company.

I can recommend a guy who used to work at CBRE and now moved to Jones Lang Lasalle as CBRE limited him to property management and at JLL he is allowed to get into sales as well as property management.

He always showed up on time and speaks good English and helped with maintenance issues months into a lease. PM me for his details.

Frankly if this guy was employed to do property management and was sidelining as agency, and CBRE did not transfer him to their agency team then I would NOT use his services!

At that price point the builing may have a life expectancy of 30 years only. If sea levels rise it may be a mute point anyway.

The upside is only there if the title comes with a proportion of the land taht the builing sits on. If so, then your GF will own a small freehodl portion of the land for re-development in the future - maybe.

Jaidee, the law is on your side but you need to take step back and see how many allies you have amongst other co-owners and then discuss the way forward collectively. On your own you will not succeed as you are a small fish fighting a big fish etc.

For the car park issue, try and find out if the car park was titled as common property. If so, then the developer can't change its use, however if the developer retaiend the car park as his property then you don't have a leg to stand on. Start coldly checking the facts and drop the emotions on each of these issues.

Act quick on this or you will miss the momentum to reslove it. You will find little help on this forum and I urge you to contact a property mgt company and pay for advice asap.

Does anyone know how we can donate aid to Pakistan in Bangkok? There seems to be no action on this locally and the embassy seems rather quiet as well. Any ideas?

Without any doubt at all, Fortuners and Camry's are the worst, the most conceited drivers on the road.

Toyota as a brand tends to attract a certain type of driver almost, but the above two have created their own demographic.

It takes one local that has required this pathway to access their place of work previoulsy, and you would have to demolish whatever you have built on it.

Never let them know a farang is involved.

The hostage strip and this version of it lives on.

If a developer does not want do do this then what is the point in pushing them? It would seem obvious that they will reject you as a buyer rather than compromsie on this point. Perhaps buy something completed instead.

This really should not be hard to tackle.

As it appears that control has been lost to the developer and you are being treated as tenants rather than owners, I suggets that you seek external professional advice from a recognised managing agent or a lawyer.

The condo act, Juristic person responsibilites etc are legally manadted and with appropriate pressure you should be able to overturn what is happeneing. It may be possible if you have enough support from other owners to call for an EGM (not and AGM) and then vote for what the majority want. i.e chaning teh managing company or the juristice person etc.

Do you have annual AGM meetings? if so, what happens??

First step - analyse the ratio of sold vs un-sold units and determine the developers voting strength vs co-oweners.