joefromdc

"Simply" having a thai wife and children born in Thailand that carry a thai passport makes it NOT my problem? Interesting point of view. I have not taken the step to get my RP as my wife and I have decided to leave Thailand we do not want to raise our children here anymore. I have an office within a five minute walk of the station that was bombed (by whomever) on another night that could have been me killed instead of that poor woman.. leaving a widow and fatherless kids behind seems to me like it does make it my problem..

I can promise you if YOU had a Thai wife and children born here you would not be staying out of it, it effects your family, your employees your children and their future... I don't support the REDS or the Yellows I just want them to all stop acting like spoiled little babies and for once do what is best for the greater good of the WHOLE country not their own little slice of the pie.

As I said we are making plans to leave now, not a step we wanted to take but MY WIFE said she can't take it anymore to see her people act this way towards each other and does not want our sons growing up in this society.. that makes it my problem and makes me very sad as well.

OK, fair enough argument. It is a problem for you. That really wasn't what I was trying to suggest. I was going for something more about having the "right" to do something about politics in a country not your own. I didn't make my point very well apparently as I can't defend it decently in hind-sight.

I would say though, that if I had a Thai wife and children I wouldn't be here. I totally agree with your wife on this one.

I don't support the REDS or the Yellows I just want them to all stop acting like spoiled little babies and for once do what is best for the greater good of the WHOLE country not their own little slice of the pie.

I agree 100% with that statement. 100%.

and "don't throw good money after bad"

Don't you have a saying in English: "Throwing the baby out with the bath water" ?

I'd say "Don't throw out the bourbon with the branch water." But I come from the southern part of the USA...

so paper is better? than you support of cutting down rain forest for your goodies

paper takes about 30 years to rotten to nothing, in case you would wonder...

Two problems with this statement:

First, the wood used for things like paper, paper towels and tissue is "farmed" wood. The trees grow quickly (in the 10-20 year range) and three trees are planet for each one harvested. The rain forest is being cut down for building materials not paper bags.

Second, the 30 year statistic is a bit misleading. Under certain conditions (and quite frankly, like those in most landfills) paper can take 30 years to rot. Set a paper bag out in the woods some where though, it'll break down in months. Some countries treat paper products (burn being one option) that can't be recycled so they don't stay in a landfill for 30 years. Plus the plastic bags pretty much last longer than our recorded history. Even if the 30 year number is accurate, that beats 10,000+ years. Not to mention the paper bags in the ocean will break down much much faster then in a land fill or dry land. The plastics ones, never.

Problem here is we're talking about Thailand. Would you rather have the unknown neighbors mention earlier burning plastic or paper bags? The benefit on beach/ocean pollution of paper vs. plastic should be obvious. The paper bag solution may not be a panacea but seems better than plastic.

Careful about the propaganda you read. It might inaccurate information (rain forest) or use statistics (decomposition time) in a manner that makes their case without accurately telling the entire story. Remember what Benjamin Disraeli (later paraphrased by Mark Twain) said. There are three kinds of lies. Lies, dam_n lies and statistics.

cant wait to see them do the MK dance

ROTFLMAO!

Foreigners are the main target...

I thought I read "Victory Monument and Ratchaprasong Junction?"

I don't think foreigners are the main target.

But can't disagree that this is more about revenue generation that safety--just like in America!

j.

How very silly. What pathetic minds these people must have.

That probably says it best...

Let's not also forget Thais have an extraordinarily time "unlearning" or changing their ideas on almost anything--even in the light of proven, scientific evidence. If the Thais and science are at odds, chances are the Thais will think the science is wrong. If they all agree, it must be true, right?

A year and a half ago I had my tonsils removed here--It was cheaper to pay for this outright here then my co-pay on the insurance back in the States. My Doctor's instructions on eating after the surgery suggested eggs as an easily swallowed source of protein. I have a close female Thai friend who age is somewhere in the mid-fifties. When she heard I was eating eggs she freaked out on me. If you ever get to feeling too good about your level of understanding/speaking Thai language, having an old Thai lady freak out over the phone will bring you down to Earth--but I digress. One of the local "medical myths" is that eating eggs causes wounds to heal slower and scar more. This is absurd. My ENT doc is Thai. He specifically told me I could eat eggs. If you've ever had your tonsils out as an adult you will thank GOD for eggs, ice cream, noodles. A Thai buddy happened to be over at the time and I had to put him on the phone. After 5 minutes of talking to her, he explained all this for me. He said he tried to explain to her that my doctor had recommended this but couldn't convince her otherwise. In her mind the "wives' tale" trumps the doctor.

I am still waiting for the science behind "air conditioning causing sore throats". Though after being here almost six years, I reckon I have lowered expectations.

j.

Since Samak isn't a dictator, I think you mean "He can't LEAD his party, he can't LEAD the people, he can't LEAD the country...."

j.

Does anyone know if these women where ' Educated ' Thais, or Bargirls???????

Is that important?

EmptyMind, appleman-Well said. Cheers.

I don't need to be a weather man to know which way the wind is blowing.

Of course not, you only need to be a weather man to know which way the wind is blowing NEXT week.

And I don't need to be an economist to know the rate of exchange today. Next week though?

j.

Uh-huh.

Lots of economists read thaivisa.com.

I have to quote (I think) former US President Harry Truman.

"If you took all the economist in the world and lined them up from here to the moon, they'd all point in different directions..."

But please continue the discussion....

j.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Muslim fundamentalists will keep chipping away at the freedom of the Thai people until, one day, your avarage Thai will awake to the 5:00am call to prayer.

Wait a minute, you're blaming the Muslim's for this? I thought blaming Thaksin for everything was the order of the day?

An amateur's question:

Is the fall in stock market only a temporary setback, or is this the beginning of a crash, and what effects might that have on the Thai economy, and life for us here?

I'll never forgot my freshman year, Economics 101 professor who told us on the first day of class:

"If you the took all the economists in the world and lined them up from here to the moon, they'd all point in different directions..."

j.

I don't think teachers come into the equation maybe because they are frequently paid for by government

It's my understanding that foreign language teachers have different salary requirements than non-teaching positions. I'd have to ask my friend who owns an English language school, but I think the teacher salary requirement is (was?) between 30,000 and 40,000.

When the first change went into effect it looked like if his teachers were from the USA (and most are, his school is called the "American English School") he would have to pay them 60,000/month. He was a little worried until he learned that teachers were considered "special" and had the different requirements.

There was no way anyone would pay the average English teacher 60,000/month. If that had had been the case, only the richest of privately owned schools would still have any farang English teachers.

j.

Look up the difference between "right" and "privilege". This all started by my simply pointing out that you do NOT have the rights of citizenship when outside your home country. How this got twisted into "no one should criticize" I am not sure. Go back and look at the post(s), I suggest criticizing is OK, it's just not our "right" unless the Thai government allows us the right (or you are an American Citizen and on US soil, then our constitution guarantees us rights).

So criticize away, knock yourselves out. This isn't North Korea or China, the Thai government is pretty cool about allowing freedom of speech compared with them. Thai Visa's "Complain about Thailand" forum here pretty much proves you have freedom of speech. But if the Thai government says is isn't your "right" anymore to download pornography, then you don't have the "right", whether or not that "right" is protected in your home countries. No one complains when they make child-porn illegal, that's "clearly wrong", right? Everyone is making a value judgment and the Thai government is making a different one from the complainers here (and myself for that matter). All I was saying was that it's their government, let them govern it, let them have their own values, beliefs and systems as they see fit.

My entire argument is based on "right" versus "privilege". The logic is irrefutable and has nothing to do with criticizing. Only what defines rights, which sorry to day isn't defined by "my childrens country, my wife's country, and the country where I am living, working and paying taxes." (please forgive me correcting your spelling)

This all sounds like another farang who believes all his "bar-girl publicity". Get a grip dude. Why not try a re-read and applying some logic (that's that word you keep throwing around) and see if you can figure what's really being said. The only way you get the full rights of a Thai citizen is to become Thai. Having 16 wives, 58 children and paying 60,000,000 baht in taxes a year still won't cut it (probably come darn close though )

As for reading the newspaper, no, I can't read a Thai newspaper "fully". Unlike most languages, Thai newspapers are written at a high level of the language, not a lower one. I have learned to read and continue to study in hopes that one day will read a newspaper fully and quickly. Still, not being able to read the "free press", is that Thailand's fault or mine? (and I can read some) So learning to read Thai enough to read a paper is difficult. So. Again, there in no inalienable right to these things. The Bangkok Post and The Nation are NOT FREE PRESSES. The others are and we have access to them. If we can't read them, then shame on us, not shame on the government.

I think we should all voice our opinions. I never suggested otherwise. But if the Thai government erodes enough of MY freedoms, I will go home where my rights are protected, because here they just tolerate me.

after paying tax I feel no shame in voicing opinions on matters that concern the country, I know we're not listened to, and have no rights, but that doesn't mean we have to put up and shut up.

There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism as long as it's done in a respectful manner.  This goes for any issue world wide, it's what our democracy has taught us.  Not to just sit back and watch things happen.

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I agree with this 100%. Nothing I wrote in my previous 2 posts said differently. You say so yourself "I know we're not listened to, and have no rights". I never said shut up, just quit saying you have some sort of god-given "right", you don't. Bitch all you want, I was just thinking it's OK for the Thai's deal with pornography the way THEY want.

j.

^^No, it's a sermon- and not a particularly original or interesting one.  You're either a troll or one of those "Thailand-intoxicated" folk who haven't advanced far into their culture shock yet.  The only thing more crass than a Thai who tells us not to criticise anything about Thailand because we should feel "honoured" to be here is a foreigner who says the same thing.

On the topic, I agree with the note of caution.  Imagine if the ONLY thing you could read or say on the Internet were at the level of what the Nation or the Bangkok Post are allowed to print.  We would be entering a scary world indeed.

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I never said NOT to criticize Thailand. I just said we do not have "rights" as suggested by mraloha. And we don't. It's that simple. Criticize away, I certainly do. I just don't make statements about how my "freedom of speech" rights are being violated when I have none while I stay in this country.

As for feeling honored, I would feel that way to ANY country that allows me to live within their borders, especially when my own country doesn't offer the same. This is just being polite, not intoxicated. I've lived here long enough to be over any intoxication (interesting though you are quote the name of the book within your quote--Culture Shock Thailand, you've almost plagiarized).

If you learn to read Thai--I have--you are not stuck with the Nation and Bangkok Post as your only news source (or is that one of the inalienable rights you feel are missing? The right to perfect English-language news no matter what the native tongue is?)

Everything in the world is not about farang, for farang, and only farang. Arrogant farang just think that way. Anybody suggests the reality of the situation get thrown petty insults like "Thailand-intoxicated" or "troll". Anybody care to get together to debate this and other topics with some real Thai people (who think most of the post on this forum are silly, uninformed, and based on a nasty farang-superiority complex), please write me back. Not only myself, but my Thai friends would enjoy such an evening. You will be shocked to learn Thais are not as all concerned about farang as our brother's on the forum would have you think...

j.

I am indeed suggesting we don't have "the right" to criticize. We have the privilege of criticizing the Thai government at THEIR pleasure. We have the RIGHT to criticize our home countries where we are citizens and these RIGHTS are protected (at least in the USA where I hail from). This is Thailand, this is THEIR democracy, this is THEIR choice. Not ours.

Where any of you get the idea that your "free will" and "freedoms" enjoyed in the West are the same here. We are privileged to be able to come to another country and live. If you live here long enough, they Thais will allow you to become a citizen (I know of at least one who has done just this). But the democracy is for the Thai people, not for the non-citizens. If you feel so strongly about it, then go for Thai citizenship--better speak/read/write great Thai though. Then you can work to change this democracy. You can work to stop the corruption as you see it, however hard or impossible as that might seem.

I support the FREEDOM of the Thai people to choose what is best for the Thai people, whether I agree with it or not. I am honored that the Thai people allow me the privilege of staying in their country and enjoying a mostly "free" life. Something MY country does not allow to most Thai nationals. Because I feel this honor, I attempt to do my part to make Thailand a better place in whatever small way I may contribute.

mraloha, you already have your freedom of speech and democracy. You gonna let some Thai tourists staying in the States to tell YOU how OUR freedom and democracy is "supposed" to work. I think not.

As for the argument regarding "live full time in thailand, who support thai families are not allowed to become citizens on a equal basis because of their ethnicity?" If you are an American or Western European, this is not a correct statement. Also, you are FREE to return to your home countries and let your families become equal citizens there (in the USA anyway).

We have nothing but freedoms and the ability to choose perhaps better than any people in the history of man. Why should we take that away from the Thais? Why can't Thailand figure out it's own path, it's own road to success?

Thailand isn't perfect. I have traveled all over the world and haven't found a place that is "perfect." Yet, here we all are, living in this imperfect Thailand. Must be some good reasons for that floating around somewhere...

Not a sermon. Just a thought.

j.

C'mon guys, It's their country. They are allowed to govern it as they wish. Sometimes I think we (the collective we who do not hold Thai passports) forget we are guests here in Thailand. If things of this nature irritate you too much, perhaps it's time to return to your home countries.

Plus, if you really need the porn, take a trip to Panthip or Silom Road. Plenty is available there...

j.

Vehicles traveling at 110 and 120 kph is ridiculous and burns 2 times the fuel of a vehicle traveling at 90 kph,

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That's a real inaccurate statement. There are a multitude of factors involved in fuel economy on a car. Most modern cars in N. America and Europe will run at optimum fuel consumption between 110 and 120 kph. Maybe cars in Thailand are geared so differently as to change this optimum speed, but I doubt it.

You thinking on this is about 30 years old. Even in the States they had to change their campaign to keep the speed limits at 55 miles per hour--about 88 kph. "Fifty five saves lives" became the mantra when the optimal fuel consumption went well above 90 kph.

I won't argue your safety point. I'm not surprised if it's more dangerous to drive faster, it just uses less energy per kilometer traveled.

j.

I'm not sure if its what i have now or not i

got mositio bite a fews nights ago and have been coughing now i have a real high fever mee kai mak mak

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I'm pretty sure the dengue fever carrier mosquito is NOT the nocturnal variety.

Worry about day-time bites, nocturnal mosi's will only give you malaria...

j.

He should have been carrying his passport on him, the naughty lad!

Ah-hem, could it be possible that the people who killed him took his paper? If I had killed him, I think I would take his papers.

Not a sermon. Just a thought.

j.

Popping a handful of strawberries or raspberries before you go into the bedroom can give your flagging sex life a boost.

"Every time you have sex, or simply want to ready yourself or your partner for sex you should consume a handful of raspberries or strawberries," the report quoted Holford as saying.

If your sex life is "flagging" due to zinc deficiency, you'd better eat those handfuls of strawberries for a couple WEEKS before you go into the bedroom.

I am thinkin' Holford needs to take a class in physiology and nutrition. Maybe he works for the EU strawberry lobby?

Siam CenTERRRR

CompuTERRRR

Harry PotTERRRR

Wisa

Wietnam

Thankyou werry mut.

Those of you that have learned to read and write Thai should understand where most of these issues come from. Words like Center, Computer and Potter, when transliterated into Thai script are written with the falling tone. They are just saying it how they see it written...

I am a little surprised no one mentioned the fee for bringing and opening your own bottle of wine to a restaurant is often referred to (and written on signs) as the "cockage fee". That one gets great looks on a sign near Soi Cowboy...

Another good word to get a Thai person to say is "parallel"

This being said, it did take me a month to pronounce correctly the word for silver (or money) - ngun.