Neurath

This country is going insane: who in their right mind hands over money to a politician out of their free will ???

And he's not even handing back a receipt, Thailand , wake up !!!

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Every single lobbyist in the US apparently.

Did they get a receipt and will he ever produce a balance sheet to show how the money was used ?

Sorry, it's early morning and I'm not in my body yet or I wouldn't be quite so silly.

No that's all right, in a democracy you would have to declare, Thailand is a democracy isn't it.???

Not if you're the Catholic Church.

So everyone at a rally just needs to look out for anyone wearing moustache, sun glasses and a hat, stop them and check, and he's rumbled.

What a clown! And he's in charge, even worse ...

Nah, Chalerm's much smarter than that. What he'll do now is go without the hat.

The Law is the Law .... For ALL sides of politics ..... Beyond that is Anarchy ....

That's correct. This is where the UDD supporters start to slip back into blindly supporting the PTP while inadvertently falling back into a dictatorial argument without even realizing it.

No respect for the law is Anarchy. Anarchy is not democracy. Basic stuff really that completely slips their mind.

The elected senate argument is one that makes me laugh. Sure, in most countries elected senates are the way to go, but as usual because the PTP want an elected senate and the supporters without freedom of thought just blindly just go along with the regime.

In Thailand an appointed senate is essential to their democracy. The people appointed to the senate were not usually professional politicians. They had actually done something with their lives. They don't have constituencies to worry about or elections to win. They spend their time seriously reviewing legislation.

The senate currently boasts a compliment of experienced professionals. Elections would effectively eliminate their valuable expertise from the political process. The appointed senators are economists, scientists, businessmen, judges, lawyers, professors, engineers, social workers, doctors, public servants and consumer advocates. Many would be unwilling to campaign and would have their seats filled by PT puppets funded with PTP money. Don’t forget PT has access to more money than the DEM party does (tax money). Money wins elections. The Senate would effectively become a mirror image of the PTP. People argue it was DEM inclined before. Now they argue that being an elected senate thus PT inclined is better. It is an irrational and undemocratic argument.

An appointed senate reflects diversity of the Thai people. Women, visible minorities are too often poorly represented if senators are elected. PTP despise the voice of minority groups. The Deputy PM called minority groups garbage and do not respect minority groups.

Improving Policy. An appointed senate could help ensure that policy is based on a wider variety of input based on compromise and consensus among diverse perspectives. PTP hate this fact. They hate compromise. Look no further than the World bank, Moody's, UNHCR, Human Rights Watch, the environmentalists, the corn farmer, the rubber farmers, academics, global economists, EC, IMF.

Balancing Power. An appointed senate serves as a check on the concentration of power in the hands of the PM. PTP hate this. Thaksin want complete control.

I chuckle sometimes and think the Constitution Court may have a sense of humor and didn't allow an elected senate because they could not make a senate hall big enough for all of Thaksin's in-laws. alt=cheesy.gif>

The senate is a workshop. Not a circus. Look no further than parliament as to what the senate would look like if it was full of elected officials. applicable to the house of representatives also.

Pretty much all of these points are applicable to the house of representatives as well. It's an old argument, as old as ideas of democracy. People need to be governed by good - and by extension, honest - people. Since elections can't guarantee that, obtained senators otherwise - by appointment through another appointed group. Of course then there's the problem of who appoints the anointed. Before you know it you end up with a fully appointed government for the very same reasons that you originally wanted a partially appointed senate and a system of government extraordinarily distanced from any proximate control by citizenry. It's a sad way to go. Especially since recent history in a country starting with "T" indicates that buying appointees isn't that much more difficult than buying a political party or electoral candidate.

Hmm, what sort of visa would Khun Sathit be on? Having been here for 50 odd years I suppose he would have PR. Still, PR doesn't provide citizenship rights in most places - there has been news about deportations of long term residents from countries like Australia in recent years.

Bt10 bn for 1 million tonnes

Still about Bt 3k per tonne more than the market price.

Yeah, selling 1mil tonnes at 10,000 baht per tonne doesn't make 10 billion if you pledged to pay the farmers 15,000 per tonne. You would have lost 5 billion not made 10.

Well, that's a downer. He was great in Before the Devil Knows You're Dead and in everything everyone has mentioned. Yep, a downer.

What reason cannot give, a mystic essentialism can provide. When a person or persons start throwing around essentialist qualities of nations or parts of nations that can only be grasped by themselves and their tribe you know that you are in the presence of fools, as they're incapable of seeing that what they are doing is a major part of the problem they're seeking to solve.

Is that code for "falang no understand thainess", being utter b*******t?

Sure That and all he other essentialist BS that one hears about. There are versions of it in sexual politics and racial politics and so on. It's a pretty wide-spread malady afflicting the weak minded and the bully inclined.

What reason cannot give, a mystic essentialism can provide. When a person or persons start throwing around essentialist qualities of nations or parts of nations that can only be grasped by themselves and their tribe you know that you are in the presence of fools, as they're incapable of seeing that what they are doing is a major part of the problem they're seeking to solve.

Perhaps Suthep's supporters could inform us of the countries in the world that are currently backing Suthep. Links would be nice.

Whatever the number, the video above won't go toward increasing it. Don't think it matters though. The attempted enrollment of foreign support by and for one side or the other is primarily for domestic consumption. Foreign governments are concerned with stability and trade opportunities more than governmental forms or practices. Most often the later can go hang provide the former is favorable.

Yes you are correct to say it doesn't matter - at least not a great deal - what other countries think, but I was curious because every time we get a foreign country urging that democracy be respected, Suhtep's supporters come on herre and say that foerign country doesn't understand what is going on.

Yet I haven't yet seen a country that supports Suthep. I would like to be proved wrong. If any one can name a few?

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Egypt probably supports him. They had a military coup there and overthrew an elected president. North Korea is bound to support him. Totalitarian dictators stick together. Zimbabwe might be sympathetic.

Nah, Mao didn't stick with Krushchev who didn't stick with Mao. And famously Stalin and Hitler didn't stick together either. Franco stuck with everyone and everyone stuck with him.

Perhaps Suthep's supporters could inform us of the countries in the world that are currently backing Suthep. Links would be nice.

Whatever the number, the video above won't go toward increasing it. Don't think it matters though. The attempted enrollment of foreign support by and for one side or the other is primarily for domestic consumption. Foreign governments are concerned with stability and trade opportunities more than governmental forms or practices. Most often the later can go hang provide the former is favorable.

Yes you are correct to say it doesn't matter - at least not a great deal - what other countries think, but I was curious because every time we get a foreign country urging that democracy be respected, Suhtep's supporters come on herre and say that foerign country doesn't understand what is going on.

Yet I haven't yet seen a country that supports Suthep. I would like to be proved wrong. If any one can name a few?

I guess they're saying (rightly, wrongly or muddleheadedly) that they don't have that support because they're not understood. Mind you, it's a very hard thing to understand or comprehend.

Perhaps Suthep's supporters could inform us of the countries in the world that are currently backing Suthep. Links would be nice.

Whatever the number, the video above won't go toward increasing it. Don't think it matters though. The attempted enrollment of foreign support by and for one side or the other is primarily for domestic consumption. Foreign governments are concerned with stability and trade opportunities more than governmental forms or practices. Most often the later can go hang provide the former is favorable.

Mind you, William Hague was part of a government that wanted to make the right to vote contingent upon paying a "poll tax" - actually council rates/charges. No payment no voting.

There's a saying that has currency in the mythology of the United States. Something like "no taxation without representation'. But, well, 16 year olds work and pay tax but they certainly can't vote. Why is that? What reason would be given? I'm not suggesting that 16 year olds should or shouldn't be able to vote, but I think the reasons people have for thinking one way or another would be good to have on the table given the vehement views that are being displayed currently.

Sure, I didn't want to appear that I was doing that. Apologies if I did so appear. I certainly don't disparage or disrespect William Hague for making his comments and agree with you that more the more the better and greater benefit for all. I was being facetious and it misfired badly. My bad.

As for William Hague, well, he comes from a country that has no written constitution and a half appointed half hereditary Upper House. I believe they call them "Lords".

This is a very good intro for Farang

Regardless of the position one has in the this conflict, or even if one sensibly doesn't have one, that video is an abomination.

This video states that the Amnesty Bill was taken to the Constitutional Court and that the Court ruled it to be Unconstitutional and so knocked it back. But this is a factual error surely? The Bill seeking to change the Senate was ruled unconstitutional by the court and so knocked back. The Amnesty bill was knocked back by the Senate itself and did not go the constitutional court at all.There are other factual errors in this piece also. The factual errors, the faux doco (seriously?) music accompaniment and the condescending (but hysterically pleading 'rational' ) tone make this a very hackneyed piece. Obviously produced to convince foreigners rather than locals, but I think more like to nauseate them assuming they're more discerning than a fruit fly in a bag of off bananas. I should add that I'm not saying that no case can be made for the position, just that this is an appalling and counter productive attempt. It's like watching and listening to a crappy nature documentary from the 60's.

Agree, it's a bit funny that they think this video makes a strong case. The strangest part is the pronunciation of THaksin..

Thailand has problems. Blames poor people for corruption. Blames democracy for corruption. Therefore, no more democracy.

No one thinks their country is perfect. No one thinks their government is perfect. That doesn't mean you throw your system to the wayside. If the biggest problem facing Thailand is that they have to pay some farmers doing back breaking work 50% more than they would according to the market price, then I think they can survive.

There are arguments, and reasonable presentation of such arguments, that can be made for the position of the protesters. This video isn't one of them or indeed any of them. There are very reasonable arguments that can be made for the position of the government also. And there's the rub. In the end compromise agreements containing compromised positions will have to be made and those compromise agreements can be hammered out now or they can be hammered out after there are a lot of dead people. Sometimes protagonists demand that compromises be made only the back of the dead.

Makes a change for a Brit' to be scamming Thai's doesn't it. Seems like the ultimate Karma.

Not really, they sell thousands of 12 month Master degrees to Thais. And the UK as a holiday destination.

Why do you keep posting stuff that is in news? Get a life.

If this item was posted there before here my apologies, I looked and didn't see it.

Obviously we don't have the ability to post to there.

If it isn't of interest to you, just ignore it, like most people do.

Obviously it is directly related to Thailand; those of us that have been here for a while will have recalled the scandal when the new airport was first opening.

The fact that HM government was directly involved in helping to perpetuate the scam, and at very very low rates for their scamming services, I thought would be of interest to the Brits on here.

The global military-industrial complex in cahoots with war-mongering governments serving the interests of the 1% at the expense of their citizens is of course not a problem limited to any one country.

Google Eisenhower's resignation speech on the subject.

Also very interesting book "War is a Racket: The Profit Motive Behind Warfare" by highly decorated U.S. General Smedley Butler is very enlightening, and not at all out of date.

Here is a summary

Wrong scandal hombre. This one refers to the hand held bomb/drug detectors purchased by (among others) the Royal Thai Police Department and the Royal Thai Army. The scandal involving the purchase of scanning equipment for the airport is another bag of worms. Same M.O. but different worms in bag. I imagine that the GT200 units were very popular because when used to determine the presence of bombs and/or drugs they did the electronic equivalent of "up to you". This, I suppose, was found to be culturally comforting in a way that the subsequent bomb blast was not.

what in the hell has this got to do with Thailand, do the poms feel a bit left out after aussie day or something

Thai Army and Police force purchased many hundreds of million BHT worth of the devices. They were supposed to sniff out drugs and detect bombs. For the the unit to detect say, cannabis, you purchased a little plastic card like a SIM and stuck it in the plastic handle of the device, for amphetamine another, for opiates another, for various explosive ingredients yet others. This was a part of their beauty - you could go on multiplying "SIMS" and keep the procurement ball rolling. Of course the units were only as useful as waving your di*k around and hoping to detect explosives with it's majestic sweep. Pretty funny until some Private gets told to go waving the GT200 around to determine if there are bombs about, as happened in South - and that person is an ex Private delimbed. Still, this is what fortunes are made of.

I believe that one Khunying P. swore by their efficacy. The claim was that they would work only if the user believed in them. Otherwise not. This went some way to explaining why when tested they were as good as guessing. Clearly those doing the testing didn't believe in them. Multiple hundreds of millions were spent on them. I don't believe that anyone has been charge with malfeasance in Thailand in relation to that procurement. Which goes to show that if you believe in their efficacy enough nothing will convince you otherwise and if you believe hard enough that there wasn't any corruption in their procurement then, well, there wasn't.