jcbangkok

I was just looking at the US MARRIAGE AFFIDAVIT and it asks you to list your occupation and monthly salary.

Does anyone know if this is just information gathering or if there is a requirement here?

Also, I assume somebody currently not working can list what their occupation is (when working) and what they typically make since the actual question is:

Unless somebody tells me differently, I have to assume this is just info gathering since income doesn't reflect all of a person's wealth or financial worth and there is nothing on the form about net worth, property owned or bank accounts.

Thanks in advance for any first hand or actual knowledge.

As usual, it is the poor who are discriminated more than anybody in Thailand. I doubt a non-rich ladyboy is going to be able to get any recognized marriage in Thailand let alone a polygamist one.

I'm sure this will just be the village/Buddhist ceremony and not in any way legally registered.

Yes, sadly, they cannot be legally, even lb and a man isn't recognized per se.

They could all enter into a civil contract if they wish. But I don't think divorce settlements is what they marry for. Only sign of love.

Are you "assuming" on the civil contract or is that an option in Thailand ... and more to the point of this story, could you have a three way civil contract? When i say civil contract, I am talking about what is termed a Civil Contract / Union which other places use as a form of marriage between same sex couples rather than calling it an actual marriage and upsetting the church.

In the full article it provides, a much unneeded life history, which states she had "the" operation. I assume this to mean she now is penisless and has a vagina.

Where to start ??

Proving where they were posted from can not be easy and if determined, proving whose fingers were on the computer will be another matter. Methinks its sour grapes for a man who invested in a business that went tits up and she wants more money to make the same mistake again....

Given the lack of modernizing so many Thai laws ... I have to wonder what law was actually violated to begin with. There are surely pornography related laws but I am not sure I read anywhere that these were porno images and certainly they would need to prove they were uploaded by him in Thailand ... though this would not be difficult in terms of a circumstantial case since the IP would likely have been logged ... then again, if it was a non-Thai website, good luck in terms of Thailand getting this info.

And if these so called "private' photos were of a pornographic nature, wouldn't the girlfriend also be in violation of the law, assuming she knew she was being photo'd?

The big question now will be what will happen now that the story has been made public. On the one side you have losing face but on the other you have a possible international incident that at the very least can hurt tourism from this country.

Did they leave out the part about this women having a relative in the police dept. or is it normal to take a person's money for such a crime?

and ..

Still according to the stepfather Jens Meyer Olsen, his stepson’s lawyer in Thailand, the Thai women will carry on demanding more and more money.

Next they will feel the need to report on quotes from people who tell us the sun will rise tomorrow.

As usual, it is the poor who are discriminated more than anybody in Thailand. I doubt a non-rich ladyboy is going to be able to get any recognized marriage in Thailand let alone a polygamist one.

Where to start ??

Exactly!!

Looks like I found the answer to my question ....

Do Foreign Citizenship Oaths Strip you of Previous Citizenships?

In general, no, although some countries (such as the US but not Canada or Australia) have verbal oaths that state that all former citizenships are relinquished, there are few (if any) modern cases in which this has happened to dual citizens. Most citizenship oaths are historical and have little legal power. In general, most countries that allow dual citizenship require very specific acts for you to relinquish your citizenship, and routine verbal oaths delivered in a foreign country are rarely considered valid.

But back to Tiger ... his reasoning to decline the Thai offer was about avoiding income tax issues.

I believe every country makes you renounce other citizenship when becoming a citizen of that country. So, I am not really sure how this applies to holding dual citizenship as related to holding a passport. Below is the first part of the oath when becoming a citizen of the USA ...

Not true. Australia (and probably many other countries) does not make you renounce another citizenship before becoming a citizen. New Zealand allows dual citizenship. Same with the UK "if a British national acquires another nationality, they will not automatically lose British nationality. Similarly, a person does not need to give up any other nationality when they become British." (from wikipedia)

My mistake. It looks like they changed the oath in the 90's and removed renouncing with a simple pledge to swear allegiance to Australia.

@JCBankok I did not misunderstand you. We are both talking about two kinds of citizenship. One type is for immigrants and yes they are required to take an oath to abide by the laws of the country etc. What I was talking about is citizenship by decent. You require one parent to be Australian citizen and show birth certificate from abroad and proof and I.D. of parent. No swearing in ceromony ect. also you keep your other citizenship. My son owns 2 passports Aussie and Thai and Thailand is aware of this as his aussie one produced as I.D for his Thai one.

I was assuming that the type of citizenship being offered to Tiger WOODS would be that of by decent as his mother is Thai.

Thanks for the clarification. It makes sense since you are talking about the right given to people be a citizen of a country (location born, parents ...) and I was not thinking along those terms. I am just wondering how folks who immigrate to another country and take the oath of that country can have 2 passports. I worked with a number of Iranian folks back in the early 90,s that immigrated to the US but still had both Iranian and US passports. I never asked them if they were dual citizens ... maybe they just never turned in their Iranian passports. Bottom line, I just don't get how you get around having to renounce other/past allegiances but yet still remain a citizen of another country that by simply being a citizen requires your allegiance.

The question is, are they chicks with dicks or men with tits?

The answer is NEITHER.

Next ...

Hm. IMHO, the answer is BOTH. It depends on the individual person.

But following the discussion of a third sex and this not being anything new, Magnus Hirschfeld at the beginning of the previous century suggested the third gender for gay people.

Isn't gender defined by one's genitals and not their sexual desires?

I was referring specifically to ladyboys (see initial post) and referred to anecdotal evidence that 4 of my friends have been robbed by katoi hugger/muggers

Maybe your friends should avoid streetwalkers...

I on the other hand have never been robbed by anyone. It is how you pick them (women, friends, whatever). (Knock on wood.)

Certainly one incident is not worthy of judging an entire group but I can tell you I was also robbed (pick pocketed) by a lady boy. The first time I was in Singapore she/he approached me on the street and began touching me in a very friendly way trying to proposition me. I tried to be nice as I declined and then noticed later the $300 (Sing) was gone. Luckily she was still in the same area (hugging up on another man) after I discovered I was robbed and I was able to get my money back since she didn't want the police involved. At the time this person did this, I was simply taking a walk and was not trying to pick up women. I was actually photographing outside Orchard Towers (waiving my tourist badge to all). I even became suspicious she/he was trying to pick-pocket me because she/he kept coming back on me as I politely declined. But she was good and had no idea she ever got her hand in my pocket. Obviously I was unaware at the time that there are many warnings about lady boy pick-pockets and was more concerned with being polite and I was kind of finding the whole lady boy encounter interesting. So, I certainly learned a lesson but I am not to blame because somebody stole from me.

Bottom line, a victim can learn to be more aware but I wouldn't be too quick to blame the victims of a crime be it robbery or rape. Lucky for you that you have never been robbed and most people I would guess have not. Although we can always be more aware of our safety and property there is not anyone who is safe from being robbed or being the victim of a con ... regardless of how careful they think they are.

As for many gays and transgener folks being in the sex trade ... it is a way to make a better living than most jobs in Thailand, This is an issue of economics and education and not sexuality. Secondly, I would venture to guess that a good number of so-called gays in the sex trade are not even gay but simply trying to make a buck. Many of the gay porn starts in the US are actually straight but it pays better and their is more work. Chances are if you see somebody openly displaying their "gayness" it is because they are advertising (often for work). Being gay shouldn't mean you are a walking homo advertisement.

This topic is about gay or transgender people in Thai society and the issues and problems of these people have very little to do with US-american porn movies.

Sorry about your comprehension skills but I cannot help you with this. But please go right on searching out my posts and advertising your level of pettiness and ignorance. It has actually become amusing.

Pity the statistics don't show how many of these deaths are alcohol related...

A year ago they ran this same type of story but they did get into more detail and I believe most deaths occured due to a combination of alcohol and motorbikes. The ran the story here on Thai Visa. So, I would be you could find it if you wanted.

If we think about the Aussies involved in the Red Shirt madness -- I bet they now rate up on the list of terms of where foreign terrorists, in Thailand, come from.

All it takes is one wacko, and the rest of us get tarred with the same brush

lol, i was just playing the statistics game since there are not many foreign terrorists in Thailand.

Edit: And wasn't there 2 or was the other nut job from somewhere else?

I still maintain Thailand is extremely tolerant of the gay people and all the other related types. It is the Farongs who have the prejudices.

In the cities there is a measure of tolerance, but things are quite different back in the villages.

This is probably a very valid point as I have never spent any real time outside the cities. I imagine it can be very different there as in many countries where there are a number of the "country folk" who are a couple decades behind when it comes to accepting new ideas or are simply Red Necks,

LOL, I was searching the net for the actual definition of a ladyboy and ran across the below on Wikipedia ...

In 2004, the Chiang Mai Technology School allocated a separate restroom for kathoeys, with an intertwined male and female symbol on the door. The 15 kathoey students are required to wear male clothing at school but are allowed to sport feminine hairdos. The restroom features four stalls, but no urinals.

Following the Military Coup in 2006 kathoeys are hoping for a new third sex to be added to passports and other official documents in a proposed new constitution.

Is there another country that has taken steps to recognize a 3rd gender? Seems Thailand is ahead of the game on this one but one really needs to wonder if this is a good, bad or indifferent thing.

Having a 3rd sex added to a thai passport would be pointless unless other countries also adopted a 3rd sex policy. Imagine arriving at an Australian immigration counter presenting a Thai passport with a 3rd sex you would not get in because Australia have 2 sexes Male/Female it would be as useful as a passport for your cat.

No doubt it would simply make their entry into another country impossible ... but what I find more odd is their wanting to be labeled as a 3rd sex. This is just too strange. I am all for gay rights and being it an individual choice to change genders but to want to be a 3rd gender???? That I have no problem with saying is idiotic. If this is accepted then we must accept the 4th gender where folks decide they want wild animal body parts ... and then of course we will have to break it down further to make sure the folks with the horse penis are not discriminated against more than those with orangutan breasts.

Surely we can all agree there are only 2 sexes and that those rare instances where folks are born with both male and female organs is truly a birth defect. Maybe in many centuries a 3rd gender will emerge but I just don't see it anywhere in the human or animal world right now.

If we think about the Aussies involved in the Red Shirt madness -- I bet they now rate up on the list of terms of where foreign terrorists, in Thailand, come from.

Meteorological Department warned the temperature in the Northeast, Central and Eastern regions would drop by 23 Degree Celsius this period,

Sounds like people need to prepare for near zero night time temps.

Don't the run this story every year?

LOL, I was searching the net for the actual definition of a ladyboy and ran across the below on Wikipedia ...

In 2004, the Chiang Mai Technology School allocated a separate restroom for kathoeys, with an intertwined male and female symbol on the door. The 15 kathoey students are required to wear male clothing at school but are allowed to sport feminine hairdos. The restroom features four stalls, but no urinals.

Following the Military Coup in 2006 kathoeys are hoping for a new third sex to be added to passports and other official documents in a proposed new constitution.

Is there another country that has taken steps to recognize a 3rd gender? Seems Thailand is ahead of the game on this one but one really needs to wonder if this is a good, bad or indifferent thing.

I'm sorry gents, but I cannot accept that ladyboys and their consorts are part of the heterosexual scene. And I do have something against them personally, though sexually I find them repugnant; they are the source of a much larger percentage of the local crime than their percentage of the population. No, I don't have statistics to back that up, but I have 4 friends robbed in hugger/mugger situations, which is out of all proportion to other crimes.

I have said this before and I will repeat it - putting your favourite sheep in a dress is still bestiality, and putting your boyfriend in a dress is still homosexuality, whether he still has a penis or not, and no matter what he thinks he really is. Homosexuals apparently wish to disown them as well, which brings us to the concept of bisexuality. IMO by interacting with a man who resembles a woman, the bisexual man can pretend that he is still "straight" until he no longer needs the pretence. Bisexuality is much more common and accepted than "pure" homosexuality in many cultures.

I really believe a good portion of ladyboys in Thailand are not gay or attracted to me. They simply have chosen the life to make money. I also don't have statistics but it seems very apparent that many working ladyboys are scam artists and well known to be pickpockets. While the sex trade in general may not be the most moral crowd, 99 out of 100 times a working girl is not going to steal from you but I would venture to say that more than 50% of the working ladyboys will steal from anyone give the chance. Chances are if one hugs you as you walk down the sidewalk, they are not interested in trying to get you as a customer but are trying to relieve you of cash in your pocket.

With that said, I have nothing against people wishing to switch genders but do find it also bizarre considering what they have to go through the rest of their life medically as well as the results often leaving them not looking like the opposite gender but simply looking like somebody "trying" to be the opposite gender.

I remember reading that ladyboys in Thailand have a MUCH MUCH higher rate of suicide. I wonder if it is because they get older and can no longer work successfully. I personally believe the large number of ladyboys in Thailand is simply a result of them wanting to make money in the sex trade and really not much concern beyond with living in the now. Maybe they are gay too but it seems clear their motivation for change is purely economical.

I have always found it odd in Thailand that if a man becomes a women through surgery that they still have to remain a man on their ID and Passport. I am not sure if this is the case in most countries but I "think" in the US it is not. What if these women (ex-males) were to go to jail? Would they be housed with the women or men since they are listed as a man but now have breasts and a vagina????

It does seem to be a good policy for farang men visiting some discos .. at least in Singapore. This is how I found out about this. I found out the bar/disco would not let women in whose passport listed them as a man. However, seems to also be an issue for those wanting to truly become the opposite sex to know they will forever always be their original sex in the eyes of the law.

As to the warnings about hang 'em high. Just what do you do about paedophiles? There's no cure for Paedophilia and no matter how long that they are locked up from the moment they are released they are again a danger to every child who comes into contact with them. This why a register of known paedophiles living in an area is kept at the local police station - and parents can demand to see that list in the interest of their children's safety. (At least in UK and USA).

Actually the reason for the extreme laws against child molesters is because it is an easy bandwagon for politicians to jump on. The recidivism rate of child molesters is a myth just as the whole second hand smoke issues where put out there. There are many people who simply love to believe untrue facts and run with as the jump on the band wagon.

According to a U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics study ("Recidivism of Sex Offenders Released from Prison in 1994"), just five percent of sex offenders followed for three years after their release from prison in 1994 were arrested for another sex crime. A study released in 2003 by the Bureau found that within three years, 3.3 percent of the released child molesters were arrested again for committing another sex crime against a child. Three to five percent is hardly a high repeat offender rate.

In the largest and most comprehensive study ever done of prison recidivism, the Justice Department found that sex offenders were in fact less likely to reoffend than other criminals. The 2003 study of nearly 10,000 men convicted of rape, sexual assault, and child molestation found that sex offenders had a re-arrest rate 25 percent lower than for all other criminals.

Frankly, I think farangs are discriminated against more than the gay population in Thailand.

I personally think that Thailand is the most open and accepting country for the gay/transgender population. I've never heard of a hate crime in Thailand related to gays.

You hit the nail right on the head

The article is so typical of the nation. Why TV continues to rely so heavily on the nation is beyond me.

If the nation cared about equity they would have been talking about woman's rites. Perhaps being in the closet can get a person to see problems that are not there or make small one into mountains.

Speaking politically correct has not yet hit Thailand. I could not imagine the reaction if in other countries, especially in places of business, the staff continually referred to a customer as "the foreigner" Yet, it is so common to here Thai's say things like "the farang wants a coke"

I'm also not aware of many countries where visitors from other countries need to pay more for services or literally discourage the ability to invest in the country.

And are specifically targeted by authorities for simple violations such as throwing a cigarette on the ground.