whybother

Where has these videos been all this time and why now do they just come out?

They didn't just come out. They've been out there since it happened.

No draught? They must have shut the window.

I think the word they were looking for was drought.

what is a bit funny (strange) is that in 2013/14 the PDRC did essentially all of those things that you just listed and yet the army didn't attack them and kill more than 80 people...

Maybe that is why some people feel like the government and army in 2010 were ... completely ... out ... of ... control ...

No?

I don't recall the PDRC throwing molotov cocktails or grenades or shooting at the army.

Abhisit will argue that the shooting started because members of the Redshirt organization the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) opened fire on soldiers first, his lawyer said.

he will have a tough time of it then...

May 13-19 were 6 days of an assault by the military with APCs... The shooting began the day before with the assassination of Seh Daing. No one can argue that the solders were fired at first during this, the most violent and bloody episode in the 2 month protests.

Good luck, Mark... I am beginning to wonder if your military handlers are really going to put you out to pasture after all...

Why are you talking about May 13-19 when the first shooting was in April?

taken literally, he still can arrest him after the service

If he can get Thaksin to enter the Thai embassy, then he could arrest him! But that would be wishful thinking.

Prayuth could tell Thaksin that there is a new passport waiting there for him.

Thaksin was convicted by a court that had little option but to find him guilty. All they could get him on was a conflict of interest, that is not corruption, but a minor charge the same as they got Samak on for appearing on a cooking program. Quite right Prayuth nor any other Thai could arrest Mr T in Singapore, that's a civilized country governed by the rule of law, and not the rule of thugs and force and illegal coups.

All they could get him on was conflict of interest, because that's all that particular case was about. There are another 15 more serious cases awaiting his return.

Samak wasn't charged with "appearing on a cooking program". He was charged because he got paid for it and he lied about it in court.

Abhist ordered the Army in as both he and Suthep sh!t themselves. I think that is the correct political terminology?

Someone gave the order to shoot bullets, as they had no water cannons?

Someone gave the order to shoot bullets ... because the protesters were shooting bullets?

You must be a salivating or you like two bites of the cherry? As you seem to be saying the same. Not heard as a child? I hope my reference to alternatives in this conflict has not developed stimuli as described by Ivan Pavlov in his studies on behaviour?

The water cannons would have been effective at the beginning. Read the press reports at the time.

Again read the press reports about the arms the protestors had. I have linked only a few reports.

I agree there weapons ended up on both sides but what escalated the violence. What escalated the call to arms? This is what has to be investigated.

The problem is that the Government/military people being investigated are denying any involvement. They are also trying to stymie the investigators. Look at some of the General’ comments.

Read some of the reports about Abhisit and Suthep just prior to the demonstrations and what their fears were with the demonstration’s coming into town.

Again this is what needs to be investigated and responsibility taken for.

Whybother, if you were at the head of the Red shirt protests, I believe that it would be your right to protest. Now if they started shooting at you in your peaceful red shirt, what would you be thinking?

Look at Nostitz report. The attitude of the troops towards protestors. Nostitz didn't show the protestors with the same in-built hatred that was displayed by the army young men at the protest site. Don't you find that type of attitude disturbing?

I think to say 'you shot I shot' trivialises what actually happened. I don't think that offers the families or the survivors of this protest/riot an answer. Everyone has the right to peaceful protest. The families also have a right to know what transpired to give the order to shoot.

We are not Thais and don't have the right to say to a Thai how to run their country. But, when acts of violence against citizens of a country I do believe we have to speak up and say 'No that can't be done'.

Someone gave the order to fire? Who?

It’s the investigation that is now important. Not what you or I think?

But if you have links to back up your claims, show them. I would be happy to read them.

"The water cannons would have been effective at the beginning."

Water cannons were used when the red shirts stormed Thaicom. They weren't effective.

"Read some of the reports about Abhisit and Suthep just prior to the demonstrations and what their fears were with the demonstration’s coming into town.

Again this is what needs to be investigated and responsibility taken for."

They were worried about armed protesters and there WERE armed protesters. Their fears were certainly realised, weren't they? The red shirts need to take responsibility for that.

"what escalated the violence."

The red shirts storming parliament and Thaicom escalated the violence.

The red shirts marching to the army barracks and threatening to storm them escalated the violence.

The red shirts throwing a grenade that killed the colonel certainly escalated the violence.

The red shirt militia shooting at the army on the night of April 10 definitely escalated the violence.

"Someone gave the order to fire?"

They army were given rules of engagement. They were attacked by the red shirts with grenades and guns. They engaged the red shirts. I don't believe that Abhisit was there and told them to open fire.

If you missed the reports that the red shirts were armed and were shooting at the army, I think you need to read a bit more.

Please don't write news that mixes up the issues.

Prayuth Promises Not to Arrest Thaksin at Lee Kuan Yew's Funeral

It seems that they didn't listen to him.

Besides that, I didn't read any promise not to arrest him, just that he can't do it alone.

No, I am just not willing to generalize. Of course the actions of the Black Shirts were inexcusable but that does not justify the murder of unarmed and completely innocent people. The snipers taking out the grenade launchers and rocket launchers were justified whereas indiscriminate fire, if that is what happened, resulting in the deaths of journalists and medics can not be justified, obviously.

Yes, I know the difference between a machine gun and a semi automatic assault rifle, do you? The Thai army were equipped with the M16 FULLY AUTOMATIC rifle also known as a light MACHINE GUN. The heavy machine guns I also mentioned were the vehicle mounted guns seen all over the city. The army claimed to only shoot these into the air but the international press reported that at least 5 people were killed with these weapons, one cut clean in half, try doing that at range with a 5.56mm semi. Obviously there was not continued fire from these weapons into crowds or they would have killed thousands but the fact is that the international press reported their use against a crowd of largely unarmed people. The rounds from these guns do not stop at their target, they can kill several people in a row. There is no excuse for using heavy weapons on a crowd no matter who is hiding amongst them and what they have done.

The point I was making was not even about what weaponry was being used, it was about indiscriminate fire from the military side, I deem it indiscriminate due to the fact that automatic fire was reported and automatics are by nature indiscriminate.

The military did shoot and kill 2 medics and 2 journalists, many more came under fire and were injured. One clearly marked journalist was shot in the back as he ran alone across open ground. The medics were shot as they attended to wounded people, allegedly by sniper fire.

Now, the question I am asking for the third time is this, was this indiscriminate fire which accidentally resulted in the deaths of these innocents or were they targeted and murdered? This is one of the questions that Suthep and Abhisit should be answering but either way it was murder or perhaps you can imagine a different scenario which resulted in the deaths of these innocents at the hands of the military.

"The army claimed to only shoot these into the air but the international press reported that at least 5 people were killed with these weapons, one cut clean in half, "

I don't ever remember reading about the army using the vehicle mounted guns, or of any protesters being "cut clean in half". That is something I would remember because every red shirt supporter here would be posting about it.

Do you have links to any of these "international press reports"?

Didn't think of using a water cannon first?

They used water cannons on April 9 when the red shirts were attacking the army at Thaicom with Molotov cocktails. The protesters over ran the water cannon trucks and the riot police (army).