whybother

Agreed. So they win, you think they will be satisfied with a "free and fair" election? This is a revolutionary insurgency looking to completely topple all existing government structures in Thailand.

Well the only way to know is to have those elections .

I agree, free elections, red people in Bangkok as peace breachers lose their civil rights as voters, the red mob now burning City Halls, blocking roads, browbeating their village people included. When you can guarantee this, I vote for you.

I remember someone calling for the poor people of Thailand to be revoked of their voting rights, as they didn't know who they were voting for. Who was that again? Do you really think revoking voting rights from people will help bring peace? A lot of this is already due to the poor and less fortunate people not being listened to - so let's go ahead and take away their voting rights too, shall we?

That was the yellows. They're idiots.

Invade hospital yes and wrong

Shoot RPG at hotel . Any proof ? None

Bring children in hot fire zone . yes wrong

Set city on fire . A few tires yes , not city .

Shooting at civilians with live bullets : yes and wrong

Shooting 10 yo boy yes and wrong

Why dont you cut the BS and stick to facts

The RPG was shot at the Dusit Thani by the yellow mob protesting in Lumpini Park.

Or was it the army that are further down Silom (and therefore can't see the hotel).

It was the reds. There was no one else around.

Show some proofs then ...

Or tell me a reason ...

Read the last sentence.

whay are the military not using water cannons as they do in the west??? all it would take is a few and you would blow them all out of the area as the tropps advance behind

In the west, the protestors usually don't have grenades and rifles.

Invade hospital yes and wrong

Shoot RPG at hotel . Any proof ? None

Bring children in hot fire zone . yes wrong

Set city on fire . A few tires yes , not city .

Shooting at civilians with live bullets : yes and wrong

Shooting 10 yo boy yes and wrong

Why dont you cut the BS and stick to facts

The RPG was shot at the Dusit Thani by the yellow mob protesting in Lumpini Park.

Or was it the army that are further down Silom (and therefore can't see the hotel).

It was the reds. There was no one else around.

How can anybody who watches Shrek be taken seriously,its for kids mate,didnt you know

If you think it's just for kids, you've got no sense of humour.

Agreed. The reds are going to get very few votes.

"popular mandate" is a useless term.

some basic info for those who don't understand it :

"the reds" are not a party, that is a movement, as were "the yellows" some time ago

a "term" exists in schools, universities, offices...,

knowledge of basic english would help when posting !

Apologies, mr teacher. Maybe you need to go back to school.

Term: A word or group of words having a particular meaning.

Clarification: When I say "reds", I mean the current "red party" (PTP).

second that, and it is not only that they are not stepping in to prevent, they try to increase the pressure and the killing

we will have to wait and see, if the party is still around for the next election - they just got around the first time, but it looks more sinister this time.

but where is the shining knight to come and stop the mayhem ??

in england we could pray for a resurrection of King Arthur !

here we are waiting for HMK to repeat the wonder from 1992, but will it happen ?

HOW MANY TIMES have they been offered a way out?

The reds want to negotiate, but they keep attacking. Who's keeping up the pressure?

Yes I think it would happen the way you say . And there is no entire party dissolution in the UK , nor anywhere else in the world as far as I know , except Thailand .

Party dissolution is irrelevant. It may make a difference at the next election when someone goes to blindly vote for the PPP.

Most of the MPs continued on in another party. By-elections were held for the banned MPs. The people are still represented.

Ok , thats your views ... Still the PM has no popular mandate

Anyway I dont think many thais will vote for a party in power that is not

stepping in to prevent the killing of innocent thais

Agreed. The reds are going to get very few votes.

"popular mandate" is a useless term.

Would you call that boy looking over the tyres a human shield.I suggest you print something factual.My thioughts would have been,he is showing the boy to the soldiers to show that he is there.

NOW

If someone had said the boy should not be there i would have agreed but dont spout crap on here

That's what a human shield is - "don't shoot at us behind standing behind the red barricades because we have brought our children here."

Not even worth a reply if thats what you think a human shield is

Please. Enlighten us with your definition.

news update;

My gf works at california wow asok

Please post pictures

Maybe neverdie should have been more specific.

Would you call that boy looking over the tyres a human shield.I suggest you print something factual.My thioughts would have been,he is showing the boy to the soldiers to show that he is there.

NOW

If someone had said the boy should not be there i would have agreed but dont spout crap on here

That's what a human shield is - "don't shoot at us behind standing behind the red barricades because we have brought our children here."

Yes I think it would happen the way you say . And there is no entire party dissolution in the UK , nor anywhere else in the world as far as I know , except Thailand .

Party dissolution is irrelevant. It may make a difference at the next election when someone goes to blindly vote for the PPP.

Most of the MPs continued on in another party. By-elections were held for the banned MPs. The people are still represented.

BBC just called and did a phone interview, they will probably show the insane video with the baby in their news!

Fantastic. I might watch BBC for once.

All the poor innocent protestors??? They declare war on the Government, try to impose their will on the rest of the country (us that democracy???). They are using old women and children as human shields, they are every bit as bad as the Taliban and that lot. I am sure if you ask the Taliban they will say they are fighting for the majority of the population too.

Where did you get this photo? After all, the BBC and CNN reporters, all on the ground, have said they have never seen the red shirts with guns??

I hate to say it, and I will ask my son who is a photo shop expert...but these guns do look a bit photo shopped in...

asking again, where did you get this photo?? what is the source?

Probably from a the red shirt DISARM SOLDIERS moment.

You don't need to photoshop to create a wrong and false impression of what real happened.

Video's are harder to photoshop.

black shirt with gun

But the reds DID NOT win a majority in the last election. Have you found the time to look at the results of the last election?

they certainly did win and therefore formed the government, with mr Somsak as PM, then their party was again dissolved in a similar way to the TRT, they again formed the government with the new party and then the PM was ousted for hosting a cooking show on TV while being PM, after that one group led by Mr. Newin Chidchob broke away and formed a coalition with the minority Ddemocrats.

just as a reminder : when the TRT was dissolved, the case was pending aginst the democrat party too, and even the then Coup leader wanted both parties to be dissolved, but that was not allowed to be.

at last someone with the good sense to say what is going on in Thailand most just want to see the Thai people killing each other !!!!!!

And someone that has talks nonsense, and doesn't read the rest of the thread explaining where 'noname' was wrong.

I, for one, don't want to see Thai people killing each other. I just want the protestors to go home.

All it would take was Cameron resigning, and so with him goes his cabinet: no government.

But since all the MPs, or those that haven't resigned prior to by-elections, would still be there under any banner.

Next is an attempt by Tories to elect a new PM via parliamentary vote.

If New Dems decide Tories are not up to the job, they vote NO.

And after a vote or two, best try, Labour and New Dems make a coalition and get a majority of seats.

End of story. New Dems or Labour voted for a New PM. All legal and above board.

Not quite, Cameron could resign, the Tories would have a leadership contest, nominate a new leader from within the MP's/party, the Lib Dems would be on board probably, and it could continue as is. The majority would still hold. The leader of the party is the PM. The party wins the election not Cameron. He is simply the nominated head of the Tory Party.

If Cameron resigned from parliament, they would have a by-election for his seat, Tories would probably win and majority would be unchanged.

I have no reference in the UK for an entire party being disbanded, so have no idea what the outcome would be.

Maybe they would probably follow the Thai recommended best practice for setting up strong and stable government in the event of parties being disbanded or military coups. I presume they have an Engrish rangauge version somewhere gathering dust in Abhisit's office

The point being, that with Cameron resigning there would need to be a new vote for PM. That would leave open the possibility that the coalition would fail, and a Tory PM could be voted in by the new Labour/LibDem coalition.

This is the video of the baby used as human shield. I have taken this video today at 14.15 h under the expressway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjT7ZKkq5yQ

Please spread it! I give permission that it can be used! Those Reds are insane!!!

you can follow our twitter updates under

http://twitpic.com/photos/freakingcat

Send it to all the international news sites.

First they are not terrorists

Second they dont have machine guns .

Third if they had machine guns you would see tens of soldiers killed

Please dont alter the truth . Thank you

PS : Or if they have machine guns they dont use them , which comes to the same

as not having them

The threat of violence is basically the same as violence.

But the facts are 1) They have high powered rifles 2) They are shooting at the army.

More important, are the post offices really closed on Monday and Tuesday ?

Thanks.

:-)

They are part of the government aren't they? The government declared Monday and Tuesday public (government) holidays.

The women and children have every oppotunity to get out of the trouble that the armed factions are causing.

They fact that many of them are staying basically means that they support what the armed factions are doing.

If they support them, then they need to live (or unfortunately, possibly die) with the consequences.

I'm assuming your second and third statement do not include the "children" in your first statement. Otherwise, it's a totally irresponsible post.

The children staying falls into the hands of the completely irresponsible parents.

Hopefully the army avoids any women and especially children if they have to go in to defeat the armed thugs.

You are right the PPP did not have a majority of seats at last election , but close , and formed a coalition .

Thats how in UK Cameron became prime minister , what's wrong with that ?

Now imagine Cameron is found corrupt and again assume the torries are disbanded , new parties created ,

some faction switching side and so on .

Do you think that new general elections would be called in UK for the whole parliament or not ?

Well if you do not , you have been too long in Thailand , and forgot that democracy comes

with a popular mandate

You can't continue to compare a theoretical situtation in the UK and your *predicted* result of that theoretical situation to what *has* happened in Thailand.

If anyone can come up with a meaning, or relevance, to "popular mandate" then it might be worth discussing *again*, but having the majority of MPs supporting the government is popular enough for me at the moment.

Obviously, the army has every right to shoot the armed fractions, but they have absolutely no excuse for shooting at women and children. Shame on them

The women and children have every oppotunity to get out of the trouble that the armed factions are causing.

They fact that many of them are staying basically means that they support what the armed factions are doing.

If they support them, then they need to live (or unfortunately, possibly die) with the consequences.

Do they really? A ThaiVisa news clipping said that none of the government buses that the government promised yesterday had shown up to pick up the women and children.

Really? Can you give me a link to that please?

Obviously, the army has every right to shoot the armed fractions, but they have absolutely no excuse for shooting at women and children. Shame on them

The women and children have every oppotunity to get out of the trouble that the armed factions are causing.

They fact that many of them are staying basically means that they support what the armed factions are doing.

If they support them, then they need to live (or unfortunately, possibly die) with the consequences.

I am shocked at how outright dismissive so may posters on this forum are of the red shirts' grievances and the manner in which they are portrayed so as to validate your dismissve attitudes.

1) The Red Shirts are not composed solely of rural poor from the Northern Provinces, they happen to include a broad mix of BKK working poor and the mere fact that there continued presence in the city is irksome does not mean they are w/o BKK representation.

2) They are poor and may be uneducated but they are human, not mindless sheep, so even if their leaders are elites who have gone into hiding (in Thaksin's case exile) credit them with the intelligence of knowing that they are standing up for better conditins for themselves, just as you are when you rant they they should pack it in so your life can just "go back to normal" b/c remember their normal is <deleted> and maybe just maybe they want to upgrade from <deleted> to a little bit of fun.

3) Criticize their tactics but remember if you are a rich farang chances are you are rich as a result of the bloody colonial inheritance bequeathed to you by our forefathers who would have had no qualms with acting on either side of this matter (from organizing a revolution e.g. USA to bloodily suppressing same e.g. UK/France/Spain you name it)

We're not dismissive of the *claimed* grievences of the red shirts.

Most of us just don't believe that they are the real aims.

What are the reds solutions to their *claimed* grievences? They don't have any. They just want to be in power.

This is a military/military backed government. Armies fight wars, if not with other countries then their own people will do. It's no surprise then that we are where we are. And this also explains why the red shirts have not been cleared, it suits those that are in control.

Every government in the world is backed by the army from protesting insurgent thugs. Otherwise they wouldn't be the government.

That's why Thaksin wants to control the upcoming army reshuffle. He had control of all the other "checks and balance" offices. Once he has control of the army, that is his dictatorship cemented.

edit: and the reds have their own "Ronin" army backing them.

The point is the military is the Govt.

Or at least the Govt. can not control the military.

There are too many generals involved in politics in Thailand - on BOTH sides of the fence.

But if the military were the government, there would have been a coup already.

What makes you think the military are not doing exactly what they are told to do? Anupong doesn't want blood on his hands in his last months as the leader of the army. Abhisit knows that shutting down the protests too early would have just shifted the problem elsewhere. They have given every oppotunity for the protestors to get out.

The reds know they have lost the battle (since their hospital adventure) and now have nothing to lose.