tommet

Thanks all for the detailed help, I'll report back how the process goes and what Phuket labour dept say when the time comes.

My employers now seem confident that they can process a work permit with a non-O. Can you tell me more about Phuket Labour demanding a non-B for this?

Would they be within their rights to do so, when the national rules state otherwise? I can't find any accounts of this happening by searching the ThaiVisa forums & the rules seem to state only that a non-immigrant visa is required, it does not specify O or B.

The advantage of the non-O that I can see is that the application process is easier and I won't lose my extension if I lose my job.

Another poster suggested a run to Chaeng Wattana, but that's an extra 1000 k round trip if it doesn't work out.

Phuket Labour arguably do not follow the cited guideline below as they currently will not accept certain types of extension, for example Case 2.24 (Visting Spouse).

Having residence in the Kingdom or having permission to stay in the Kingdom temporarily under immigration law (i.e not simply as a tourist of transit traveler.

.

If you have a non 'B' Visa Entryand obtain a Work Permit you can then apply for an Extension of Permission to Stay as being married to a Thai (National Police Order 777/2551 Case 2.18).

You will not lose this 2.18 (Thai Spouse with work) extension if you were to change/lose your job.

There are many examples of regional Labour Offices having differing readings of the regulations and this area is one area where there are reported variations of interpretation. .

To repeat, if you want to work get a Non 'B' - why get a Non 'O' if you can get a non B?

Your employer, if genuine, can easily get the necessary paperwork prepared for you to to apply for a Single Entry 90 Day Non Immigrant 'B' Visa in Laos; plus you can be 100% confident that the WP is already successfully filed in Phuket if you have the WP Receipt/Letter of Acceptance in your hand..

If you go down the Non 'O' route then your new employer may feel they can delay your WP Application to some later point - not a good idea.

Getting a B visa is rather more complex than getting an O, so that's the main problem at this stage. Also because I am entitled to a non-O and it is sufficient unto the purpose.

I thank you for your warning but I am perplexed Phuket labour office would have the discretionary powers in the face of the national regulations and the fact that granting a work permit to O-visa holders by marriage is commonplace at other labour offices around the country, and at Bangkok headquarters.

My employers are valid and established in Phuket and their people say that an O visa will work. I doubt this is a scam to make me waste my time. If it is refused on this basis you say then I will access my regulated right to appeal, as detailed in the previous link - or if must, fly to Penang.

Labour arguably do not follow the cited guideline below as they currently will not accept certain types of extension, for example Case 2.24 (Visting Spouse)

They are not guidelines they are the regulations. And how do you know this, specifically? We seem to have gone from "sometimes baulk" to an outright prohibition in a few posts. What does "arguably" mean here - that the rest of the sentence may or may not be true?

Labour dept officials are not immigration police AFAIK and do not hold such discretionary powers, any more than a school teacher does.

I note that someother reported problems with O visa work permits at Phuket labour dept seem linked to the possibility that the non-O was due to a retirement, which is not/will not be the case in my case.

I have also been unable to find any first hand accounts in this forum or any other that what you say is happening at Phuket - specifically their blanket (and non-regulation) refusal to issue WP to qualified & sponsored holders of a non-O based on marriage. If it was a big problem I would expect to see at least one example.

Could you explain if you have any first hand experience of this? Have you tried in recent months to obtain a WP from Phuket on the basis on a non-O (by marriage) and been knocked back?

Further to this question of what sort of visa Phuket wants for a work permit - a bit of searching leads to the Phuket provincial Employment office website, which reads (in parts):

ALIENS WHO ARE IN THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND AND WISH TO WORK IN THE KINGDOMMISTCOMPLY WITH THE FOLLOWING:

...

2.An alien who lives in the Kingdom of receives a non-immigrant VISA to live in the Kingdom can work in Thailand after having received a workpermit.

...

QUALIFICATIONS OF AN ALIEN ENTITLED TO APPLY FOR A WORK PERMIT:

1.Having residence in the Kingdom of having permission to stay in the Kingdom temporarily under immigration law (i.e not simply as a tourist of transittraveler)

link: http://119.63.84.110...lish/guide.html

So there's nothing there about insisting on a non-immB, which is encouraging. Also I read elsewhere than non-O is the classification used by NGO workers, who get a work permit based on that sort of visa, so it seems that an O must be a valid type visa for this purpose -

So hopefully I can forge a way through, but gratefully forewarned of such potential issues.

1. Rather than doing the the change of visa status it would be best to get the O visa first.

For the change of visa status to get an extension based upon marriage you would need to show you have the 40K income or 400K in the bank.

For the B visa change of status you would need the work permit application and etc. plus company documents.

2. Yes

3. My last (over 4 years ago) two visas from Savannakhet have all the info about my marriage including date and registration number at Amphoe. If not I am sure if you asked they would write it on the sticker.

Sorry to differ...

1. Phuket Labour like to have Non 'B' Visas and have baulked in the past at Non 'O's - this would be a big risk, plus the 2.18 (Thai Spouse and working) Extension process at Phuket Immigration is straight forward with the correct paperwork if married with WP and a Non 'B' with income >40k pcm, note the Income Requirement is lower for most than with a 2.1 Extension (Employment).

2. See my comment above - it's not worth the risk at Phuket - plus why get a non 'O' if you can get a Non 'B'?

3. Again - do not recommend Non 'O' if the OP can get a Non 'B'

My employers now seem confident that they can process a work permit with a non-O. Can you tell me more about Phuket Labour demanding a non-B for this?

Would they be within their rights to do so, when the national rules state otherwise? I can't find any accounts of this happening by searching the ThaiVisa forums & the rules seem to state only that a non-immigrant visa is required, it does not specify O or B.

The advantage of the non-O that I can see is that the application process is easier and I won't lose my extension if I lose my job.

Another poster suggested a run to Chaeng Wattana, but that's an extra 1000 k round trip if it doesn't work out.

Understood, many thanks, very helpful information from all.

& so I drive for Laos in the morning, for my non-O.

You should make a trip to Savannakhet or Vientiane and get a single entry non-o based upon marriage.That would be easier than doing a change of visa status since you are already in Isaan.

When you get the visa ask them to make an annotation that it is based upon marriage.

Make sure that your employer has a copy of your marriage certificate to turn in with your work permit application.

So you're saying here that

1. I would need an non-O visa based on Marriage to get an extension based on marriage?

2. A work permit can be processed to someone with a non-O visa based on marriage?

3. Is such an annotation on a visa routine, or a "special task"?

Then get an extension of stay based upon marriage. If your income is 40K or more from your job you could then use that by showing tax payments. They at one time wanted 3 months of tax payments before doing the extension but you could get a 60 day extension to give you more time.

thanks for that info

Thanks. The job is in Phuket but I'm in Isan until we drive down next week, so the Savanakhet consultate is closer than KL right now.

I'd spotted that I would be better off with an extension based on marriage, so I will try to do that when the time for the extension comes.

Thanks for that info. It seems I would qualify for the extension of stay, but my new employer isn't too keen on the process - "more difficult and more time".

Also the job is in Phuket, and from what I've read it sounds like only Chaeng Wattana in Bangkok will do the visa change, so that would mean more driving about.

So it's looking like a trip to Laos for me

I too am confused by this.

According to the MFA website, you must show a letter from Ministry of Labour to get a non-B visa, and to get that your employer needs to submit form WP3 -

see here: http://www.thaivisa....w/#entry5819075

Various advice on this website says you (your employer) can apply for the WP3 in country, then take the WP3 receipt out of the country to apply for the non-B:

See here: http://www.thaivisa....p/#entry5774197

Obviously this hasn't worked for the OP & I read elsewhere that the WP3 can only be applied for when the "alien" is out of the country. So how is it so many people are able to get a non-B with a simple visa run?

Ok, thanks, that's interesting - I had never seen mention of using the TM87 for this.

Unfortunately I'm now hearing from my new employer that they don't know about this change of visa process, so it is probably going to be easier to go with the flow (to Savanakhet) and get a fresh visa.

Thanks - my new employer is arranging the WP3 application in the next few days, since I believe I need it for my non-B application in Laos anyway.

And I still have 45 days left on my current visa, while the minimum required is said to be 21 days.

What I'm perplexed about is the suggestion that visa waiver entries do not qualify for this sort of change. I can't find any such rule, and I wonder if my extended-by-marriage visa would still be considered as a visa waiver entry.

Hi, I've searched and read through the relevant threads on this topic but can't get a fix on the actual answer. Any advice much appreciated.

About a month ago I did a border run at Aranyapathet and got a 15 day "visa waiver" entry (UK passport). A few days later I visited my local immigration and extended it by 60 days on the basis of marriage to a Thai. I have done this a few times now.

Now I have a firm job offer (not teaching) and need to change from a tourist/waiver entry to a non-imm-B visa.

While the usual advice is to go to a neighbouring country (ie Laos) to get a fresh non-imm-B visa at the consulate, I have read that it is possible to change a tourist visa to a non-B visa at immigration in Bangkok. This would surely be cheaper and easier than hanging around in Laos for a couple of days to get a visa.

HOWEVER - some threads suggest it is not possible to change a 15 day "visa waiver" (aka "visa on arrival, although that is something else) to a non--B in this way.

Unfortunately I can't find any authorative explanation for why this would be so.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Are the "visa waiver" entries not real tourist visas, and subject to special rules?

In particular I'm wondering if, now that I have a 60 day extension to my 15-day "visa waiver" stamp, my current entry visa might qualify as a "real" tourist visa that could be changed in-country?

I also read a suggestion that this sort of visa change is only possible at Chaeng Wattana immigration HQ in Bangkok, is that known to be the case?

EDIT: please see this link for an overview of the process (for those who may not believe it can be done): http://integrity-legal.com/legal-blog/thailand-business/changing-thai-visa-status-in-the-kingdom-of-thailand/

Perfectly clear here with the total eclipse over the Moon (Mun) River in Isan, although somewhat chilly!

Technically the eclipse has started now as the moon moves into the penumbra shadow. There are no colour changes visible yet from NE Thailand, where I am. We have cold clear skies and a beautiful bright moon over the Moon (Mun) River. The moon will start to enter the deeper umbra shadow at 19:45 thailand time, and totality from 21:06 to 21:57 thailand time.

I'm tweeting about it if anyone is interested, on twitter at @tm2020

Hi, a late note for sky-watchers and other romantics in Thailand:

Thailand and Asia should have a good view of a perfect eclipse of the moon on Saturday night, December 10.Here in Isan the skies have been windy and very clear for several nights now. In our small village there will be singing monks and singing kites to add to the moody atmosphere.

Here are the eclipse times for Thailand (adjust for your time zone - all of Asia will be able to see the eclipse if there's a clear sky):

Tonight the moon will rise in Thailand at 5.40pm, about 10 minutes before the sun sets.

About an hour later, from 6.33pm, the moon's trailing (western) edge will start to change colour to yellow and red, as the full moon falls out of the sun's direct light and deeper into the shadow of the earth.

The entire surface of the moon will turn dark red for 51 minutes during the peak of the eclipse, between 9.06pm and 9:57pm Thailand time.

The moon emerges completely from the earth's shadow half an hour after midnight, Sunday morning 0:31am.

The details of the eclipse in Universal Time (GMT) can be found at this NASA (PDF) document:

http://eclipse.gsfc....H2011-Fig06.pdf

The Thailand times (Satuday 10 Dec2011) for the eclipse phases P1 to P4 on the NASA document are:

Moonrise= 17:40

Sunset= 17:51

P1= 18:33

U1= 19:45

U2 = 21:06

U3= 21:57

U4= 23:17

P4= 00:31 (Sunday morning)

Sunrise 06:31

Moonset 06:53

There's a Nasa video about this lunar eclipse here:

If this was london say, supplies would be coming from manchester, liverpool, etc. to get out of the jam.

London, wot grinds to a halt for three days every January when less than an inch of snow falls?

If they had these floods in London it would be the biggest shambles you ever saw.

OK, remember the up to date Kor Ror 2 is stamped and signed by the boss to show you are still married. Seems folk were getting forged or old copies of the Kor Ror 2 and 3 when they were actually divorced but still wanted to stay in LOS. Tightening up. They told the mrs that modern computers/ printers were so advanced now for the home that the KR2 must be original, up to date and signed by the boss.

So the Kor Ror 2 needs to be - what, a few weeks or a few months old?

And signed by the boss at the Amphur offices? or are you referring to my wife

Thank you for sharing your visa report. I will be applying for the same visa :jap:

No worries. I'd just remember to bring your original marriage cert. They were helpful people.

Sure will do thanks, that reminds me, may I please ask did they mention the Kor Ror 2 paper which is issued when the Amphur give you the original marriage cert?

I got a Multi O last month at Savanakhet. If cash is required then that is new cos there was no requirement.

I had seen your very encouraging report, thank you. This latest report though is more ominous. I will be visiting for Savanakhet in early January, in the hope of acquiring a multi non-O. I will have thai wife and baby with me, but not 200k in the bank. So I will let you know...

they also seemed to have gotten the double TV without a problem. Its not really surprising considering that getting a multiple entry Non O (for marriage) is also very easy there. (no proof of funds needed etc)

Unfortunately another TV thread today reports Savanakhet Consulate may now ask to see proof of 200k baht in a thai bank for any non-O visa: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/511240-update-on-o-visa-via-savannahkhet-laos/page__pid__4836530#entry4836530

my KBank update book showing over 200,000 Baht (they told us this was a requirement when we called last week, but I don't really think they check it).

This is a new, and unfortunate, requirement - even if they didn't check you, presumably they might.

Even KL only requires 100K, and only for a multiple entry visa.

Was it the Savanakhet Consulate told you this?

"One of my secretaries once told me long ago that Thais are not known for being good planners but they are fabulous at coping"

Because they all learn it at school to copy instead of creating something alone. Even homework is usually copied at school. Shouldn't it be renamed?

I"ll have to copy the Thesis for my MA now, cheers to all...

Hopefully the studies for your thesis will teach you the difference between coping and copying.

is this typical to blame someone else for their own incompetence

Lol, whose incompetence? The government that has been in power for two months, or the previous government that neglected flood defences for the previous four years?

Four years? Try 2.5 years. And then there were all the neglect from previous governments, one who had 5 years to do something, and that during a booming economy when money could have been spent on infrastructure.

Yes ... incompetence. In dealing with and managing the floods. Their communication with the people has been severely inadequate ... bordering on laughable.

Oh sorry you are right. Abhisit was only there 2.5 years which of course makes his criminal negligence excusable.

You old guys are hilarious. If an asteroid hit Thailand you'd find a way to blame Thaksin and the Red Shirts.

Maybe tin foil hats will protect some of these people from flooding.

is this typical to blame someone else for their own incompetence

Lol, whose incompetence? The government that has been in power for two months, or the previous government that neglected flood defences for the previous four years?

They suspected their friend was sleepwalking when he fell off the fourth-floor balcony [of C&N Hotel], the railing of which they described as "only knee height", they said.

-- Phuket Gazette 2011-10-10

It's at least waist height.

I have done several border runs with a multi O in the past at NO time have I ever heard of anyone doing as you suggest either personally or on this forum.

Every time a Visa on arrival is purchased at the Laos side of the bridge. This is done even if as in my case only staying 10 minutes!! to walk through and back out the other side.

Yes this seems to be the common experience. I wish I could find the TV post where obtaining transit visa at the Ventiene bridge is mentioned. According the poster, he met a German tourist who convinced the border staff that he was just going swimming at a nearby resort for a few days and they gave him the transit visa (free). The poster also said this was a common trick among German travelers.

The transit visa certainly exists, but it may well not be possible to obtain it at Savanaket, etc.

The bus over the bridge (nong khai) is 20 baht, and you buy another ticket on the laos side also 20 baht to return to Thailand, there are no "return tickets".

Ah well that may be the kicker, making it impossible to get the transit visa. I won't get a chance to try this out for several months, but maybe the next time you go you might ask about the transit visa yourself ... obviously it will only work if you are on a Thai multi-entry visa. Maybe "special pleading" will get you around the bus-ticket requirement.