kuifje

160000 found now. Probably only the tip of the iceberg. Happens everywhere in the world (in governments).

Quite evident some are not ready to be monks. Majority of monks are sincere, but Thai culture is such that young men become short term monks for 3 months because of family pressure and status, I know sometimes becoming a monk is alternative to going to jail for crimes. I am sure there are more reasons for joining that have nothing to do with actual intention of leading monastic life. Pity.

You are kidding !? Majority of monks are sincere ? In Thailand ? They are all in this 'trade' for money, money and money, nothing else.

 

Some days it seems like just about everyone in Thailand has a new car and new iPhone.  I can't imagine what their debt to income ratio is, but eventually it is going to end in tears.

 

Thai household debts have increased to an average of 219,000 baht per household this year -  the highest level in nine years. Debt-to-GDP rose to 82.3% at end-2013, from 77.3% at end-2012,

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Bubble bubble, toil and trouble. . . 

 

 

 

Wow, thanks for this information.   This is helpfull.   I most say only 219,000 per household, its even lower than I expected.    That is very low and not to bad.  Household debts include all debts, houses, cars, finance company's. How many income's in one household on average, 2 ? 3? more?   So even if they are in the lower income brackets, they can repay there debts!     This means also, most people have more assets, then debts !!!!!

What you think is the average debt is in some advanced economies ?   Many 100.000's euro's or dollars for house, car &  other debts.   In many cases only one income to pay off those debts,no one will help you if you are in problems.  

Yes many people in Thailand have to many debts, some will not be able to pay them.  And yes it is a bubble, which will burst for some.   They will lose some of there assets along the way.   But most will survive with the help of hard (long) work and help from there family.  In the many years in Asia I see the vitality and survival of people here.   If they have a problem, they adjust and go on.   

 

 

can an average office worker work hard...
...
back in my country, a Corolla would cost about six months salary

Income:
Seven 11 about 9000 Baht/month.
Skilled factory labourer up to 20000.
Avarage office worker might earn up to 30000 (no managment position)
School director/high level government officer might make 60000.
(farang English teacher 25000 to 40000 and more )
 
A corolla type car in basic edition costs about 600000 Baht.
 
600000/9000: 67 months, out of reach
/20000: 30 months, very hard even with going deep into debt.
/30000: 20 months, still hard
/60000: 10 months, doable
 
So even the 30000 Baht middle class income has to struggle hard.
Different perspective if there is a couple with good double income.
 
There were some statistics recently about private debt of Thai families.
Thais are very high in debt.
Some low earners pay 40% of their income just for car dept.
 
Other way round: in Germany an avarage office worker could make 3500 EUR/month, about 150000 Baht/month.
If he would invest 20 months of income for the car, that would make up for 70000 EUR.
That would be much more than a Corolla
An the truth is: some do!

 

Who told you these figures? I think you are off. If you think Toyota is paying their factory workers 20,000B a month you are kidding yourself.
They make minimum wage. I pay my factory workers above minimum wages and they still only average about 8000B a month without overtime.
Office staff makes 10-12K per month. Accountant is getting 20,000B a month and I pay more than my Thai friends that own companies. My friend his wife was the assistant to the CEO of HUTCH, she speaks, Thai, English and French fluently and has a masters and she was only making 35K per month.
7-11 I'm sure is only paying minimum wage so 6 days a week is 7,200B a month. I own a company at this time but have worked in Thailand for 20 years and been in several management positions over the years never seen any office staff getting paid more than 15K per month in a non-management position.

 

First poster salary's apply for Bangkok or Phuket.   The rest of the country mostly has lower salary's.   

Also take in account, that many people own (small) businesses and work (hard) long hours. 

The comparison between more advance economies and Thailand doen't make sence.  In Thailand households will feel a car is more important than the house or the room.  Many will spent much more money on there car, then for there house/room.    Family's will help pay for debts.   Many family's own land/houses, so they have back up in case its needed.   For sure the debt ratio is very high, and a high percentage will fail to repay all there debts, (maybe 10-15%), so that means most people will be ok with there debts.    

Really some comparison are just silly to make, different culture, different climate, different interests.

My other question is this:

 

I have one more year to pay on my car loan. What must I do in order to sell the car? Can I sell it and then pay off the remainder of the loan or do I have to pay off the loan first?

 

Thanks again

You have to pay off you loan first, there will be some penalty because the credit company will lose some of its expected income.

Be advised it will not be easy to sell your car.

I saw many advices on this forum.  The fact is, credit company's who will give loans for second hand car can give you the exact value of your car.

Mostly they do not take in consideration any extra's, optionals on the car for there calculations.

They also take in consideration which car brands are more popular.   Unfortunely Ford is not in high demand at the second hand markets.   And its very hard to sell a car of only 3-4 years old with still a high value.    It is not easy to find customers who will be able to borrow many 100.000 's for a 3-4 year old cars and pass the finance company application.   Many times it is more easy and cheaper to buy a new car with the offerings from the car dealers in combination with the finance company's which work together with the dealers.  

I was in the market for a second hand car (budget 400 K, I wanted to pay 200 K cash and 200 k loan), I was refused.   So we went out to a dealer, gave deposit of 200 K, bought a new car from 800 K,  the loan was approved within a few hours and at very low interest. 

Friends of mine, had to wait over 6 months to sell a European car from 3-4 year old car which costed new 1.8 million finally they sold it for only 650 K. The value of the car was still about 800-850K.

Good luck.

Pinthongta Shinawatra, Thaksin's daughter, posted pictures and messages on her personal Instagram, saying she did not have the chance to spend time with her father on his birthday yesterday and had not met him for many months.

Sad, could he or Mum not have stumped-up, for an extra ticket ?

Pin.jpgHe's cute, so is Pinthongta, the bride.

Maybe she is smarter. And she don't want to see her criminal family members.

Mixed feelings on this one. I don't think LOS is going to see the "droves" of European and American tourists it had in the past. I think those days are gone, as many of those are looking for other options. However, I think there will be an increase in Asian tourists, mainly Chinese and Japanese. But the Chinese will in no way spend the money the American and European tourists spent.

Something else that is going to hurt is Myanmar. Laugh if you want, but their tourists numbers had doubled in the past couple of years, with no sign of letting up. Keep in mind that 1/3 of Myanmar's land mass is unspoiled, unpolluted ocean front property. Virgin territory just waiting to be developed. Some investors have already started, and more will follow. As that grows for them, it will definitely have an effect on Thai tourism. TAT can massage the numbers any way they want, and say whatever they want, that won't cover the actuality of the number of tourism related business that have had, and will continue to, close up shop.

But, hey, I could be wrong.

Yes you are wrong. The question is about Western tourists!? For sure Thai tourists and all other Asian tourists are up and will be going up for a long time to come. Despite all the crisisses all over the world, natural disasters, political upheaval, financial catastrophes, prices going up. There will be always more and more people who wants to travel and can afford it. New generations are born, so don't worry, Western tourist will always come to Thailand. The more choices in Asia with opening up more destinations will also benefit Thailand. Thailand is and will always be a magnet for tourism.

And I think a big misunderstanding about other Asian tourist, Chinese and other Asian tourists spends in average the same or even more then there Western counterpart. Asians love shopping and spending alot for this. Asians love luxury. Probably true, a Asian tourist will spent maximum 1 week on holiday, and a Western tourist will try to make it a few weeks with the same budget.

 

Kmacdonnell post # 1

So a guy has a long overstay - years.  If he turns up at the airport before the end of this month with a flight ticket to Singapore and a genuine application for a non b to come back to work, and the 20,000 bht fine, will they let him come back?

 

 

An acquaintance of mine just  did that very same thing  only he went back to the U.K. and is now back and happily at home here in Thailand.

Paid the 20,000 baht and that was it.

 

All much to his and I must admit his friends amazement as we all thought we would be starting out as prison visitors in his case.

 

His overstay was a twenty years overstay .. 

 

Twenty years ?!   So in 20 years he never had a domestic flight ?, a hotelbooking ?, a fine ? he never had a financial transaction ? what and where did this person hide and live ?!  How can he fly in/out on an expired passport ?   My passport is only valid for 5 years, after that I have to have a new passport.   

I can hardly believe this.

I think the number of tourist/idiots who will be on a towel will be very limited. The chairs, tables, umbrellas should be part of the service. Get some regulation for this. I think most tourist, especially locals and other Asians would appreciate this service (= biggest market in Thailand). Only a few tourists will be baking in the sun (and then go to the hospital for sunburns). I think it is the charm from Thailand, to enjoy the beach, have some food and drinks and gathering with the family.

Good regulation and fair prices should bring many tourist to the lovely beaches of Thailand.

Right on. The long overstayers are many times marginal persons. Rather spending money on drinking or whatever instead of doing proper visa applications. Or indeed criminal figures who are wanted in another country and affraid of crossing borders. If you want to live in Thailand, respect the rules and regulations.

At 25 million you could go buy a brand new one tax paid

Not in Thailand. Price for new one, probably between 36 and 40 million.

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A skewed ranking system. KMUTT is not in the same league as Thamassat , Chula and AIT.

" its academic papers are being used more frequently outside Thailand."

I think that is one fairly good yardstick. If the university's graduates are publishing research that is accepted abroad, it means the standard is relatively high.

What's your idea of a good ranking system that would put Thamassat, Chula and AIT up there?

I'm not sure what a good ranking system is. Even the ranking systems that rate US universities are flawed, because they focus on things like how many volumes are owned by the university libraries and how many publications are authored by the university professors. Probably the best indicator of the quality of a university are the employment statistics of its graduates. I recruit at all of these universities, and, based on my experience, the graduates of Thamassat, Chula and AIT are of higher quality than the graduates of KMUTT and KMITL. I'm not saying that KMUTT and KMITL are not good universities, it's just that the students coming out of those universities are not as well prepared for their professional careers as the graduates of Thamassat, Chula and AIT.

Yes you're right, Thamassat, Chula, or any other University who prepare students for a business/public life with good language skills are far more important than research and publications. Graduates which can work and preform in business/public positions are what Thailand needs (or every other country needs). Publications and research is good, and good for further developing whatever, but should not be taken in account for any ranking.

To me the saddest part of this story is that this has been going on for many years and it is only after an inquiry from a newspaper AND THE US DOWNGRADING, that something is seen to be done. It really shows that the US report was quite correct in that Thailand is not serious about stopping this.

This action from the present power in Thailand to be have nothing to do with the US downgrading or a story in a newspaper. Many documentaries were made before about this subject, but no any action from any government (not only Thailand).

This time It's an action which was planned by this government long before and only now exicuted.

They caught one. Only a tip of the ice-berg. Probably another 10000 organisers from beggar children/adults/handicapped people to go. You can find them in almost any town in Thailand. Not only flowers the once who sells flowers. And not only in tourist area's.

I give you an example, just at the traffic light which I have to pass every day, a handicapped woman is begging for money. Not sure she is independent or part of a criminal gang. In average in the 4-5 minutes the traffic light is red she will collect 20 baht from lets say one out of five drivers. Means she collect mostly over 100 baht in just few minutes. In one hour it will be probably 1000 baht or so. If she does do this for half a day, she will have probably 4000-5000 baht. That's an income of over 100.000 baht/monht. I know she is handicapped, but is this the way to take money from other people !??

Keep this in mind, if you think you should give something.

Good they started this hotline. I hope many people will open there eyes about all the misbehavour of the monks which are created by the wrong way Buddism is practiced here.

But also educate all people who go to temples and donate to monks.

You already donate food, you can donate something for maintenance or upkeep of the temples, but keep it within normal amounts.

But monks are supposed not to have assets.

Please stop donate absurds amounts to the monks. If you donate 20-200 baht in envellope it should be more than enough.

Stop, stop, stop the amounts of 500, 1000 or more.

Realise a minimum salary is about 200-300 baht a day, A very good salary is about 1000-2000 baht a day.

So stop to donate 500 or 1000 baht to every monk is just not right..

You know, my 10 year old, said he will be a monk later in live, because they have alot of money.

Something is wrong here !!!

Deja Vu!

Recall another wealthy Thai own a UK soccer club.. his name escapes me, think it was something like Anklewattra or something. Whatever happened to him...don't hear much of him these days???

Yes, it was convicted fugitive and ousted ex prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. See article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/5137361/Manchester-Citys-losses-trebled-under-Thaksin-Shinawatra.html

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When the curfew is lifted the tourists and Thais can party more. Means more money spending, no tourists restriction. Tourism will be back to normal values in no time. Business as usual. Not bad for less than three weeks junta.

Anyone remember how things were about a month ago?

Tourists will be back to normal in no time? What planet are you on? Thailand's image out there is about as low as it's ever been. The only way tourism recovers is if that image improves and it won't whilst men in green uniforms are running the place.

Yes, tourist will come back soon, most tourist even don't know about any problems here. Thailand is one of the best destinations in the world and always will be. Thailand always rebounce in no time from any political unheavel or natural disaster. (see previous more violent coups, fighting in the streets of Bangkok, airport closure, sars epidemy, tsunami, and the other thousand of negative reports about Thailand) Of couse tourism is about all people from other countries, not only some Western countries. Asian tourism is booming, ASEAN is coming soon. Only temperary set back will be from the Russian market due to other reasons.

So again yes tourist will be back soon, and what the Thai military is doing now looks I big cleanup from the mess made by corruption from Red & Yellow and there followers.

I know this is hard. In the same situation with my mother in law.

Don't worry. Curfew is already over in many places. If you have travel documents that you are arriving by air and you have a pre-booked taxi, it shouldn't be a problem even if the limited curfew (12- 4 am) is not lifted yet.

The curfew is not aimed at foreigners travelling, but more for locals engaging in political activities.

Btw there is a lot of traffic on the road anyway during curfew hours because many exceptions to the general rule.

I agree that some non-native speakers with very heavy accents shouldn´t be teaching, but there are a lot of foreigners (like myself) who have trained and achieved a near perfect accent and are therefore very much qualified to teach if we have the linguistic knowledge.

Accents aside, I believe that non-natives often have much greater knowledge of English than natives, since the natives simply have acquired the language, and not really learned it.

I can agree with this. There are teacher from other non-native backgrounds with very good & clear English language skills. They had to learn and practice the language. So they are able to teach this to their students.

Many of the so called native English speakers (from many countries), have very heavy accents. They speak to fast for many non-native learners. They not always pronounce English in clear and correct may.

I'm with the ranks of those who found the building to be frightful kitsch and an enormous act of self-indulgence by a hiso rich man who couldn't think of anything more useful to do with his life and money. As someone said earlier: van Gogh or Rodin it wasn't.

I do feel sorry for the ordinary Thais who made their meagre livings from the tourist arrivals, though.

You are right. It was a kind of Disneyland created for the self-indulgence of himself.

It was only a tourist stop on the map.

I guess this means that they did not have any insurance on the temple. You would think something that nice and fancy would have been insured.

I think the word I probably am looking for is KARMA.

They don't have an insurance as we know it. They have the people who visit insurance, because the owner of this Disney land 'temple' do the cry baby act. More people will flock to this structure to donate more money.

Just build a copy of it somewhere not so near the fault lines. Thais are good at it.

Yes, maybe some more egocentric rich Thais will do this, in a few years time we will have 5 or so of white temples around Thailand.... and nobody anymore to visit those places. 555

The guy is known for exaggerating. Let's see a picture of the "beyond repair" temple...

Indeed, the guy is exaggerating. Cry baby now, so more Thai and foreign tourist will visit his so called white temple. More, more and more donations for his ego.

The damage as seen on Thai television is bad, but to say it can not be repaired that is not true.

He will do a 180 degrees rethinking and receive many donations from the visitors.

And...it just a stop on the tourist map, because it is a nice place, but it is not of any real historic value. Just worth a photostop for 15-30 minutes, that's it.

Rob is my brother and Luke my nephew. The whole situation makes me feel sick to my core, and I can't even begin to comprehend how some of you think its in any way appropriate to have a debate about racism on the back of a report of his death and the tragic circumstances surrounding it.

My family are grieving. It's difficult enough dealing with news reports and journalists without scummy speculation on top.

But just to clear it up for you all, Rob is from England. Luke has dual nationality but was born in Thailand. And our family is of Danish decent. The comments on Luke's mother are nothing more than fantasy, and this is a woman who is not only grieving, but trying to console her son.

But hey, what do our feelings matter, so long as you all get to gossip about it??

Condolences to you and your family.