donx

On 4/13/2024 at 8:17 PM, AverageAussie said:

Just as an update to the thread, it seems that the DOPA review is still ongoing. Airbnb have sent a further email communication asking for input by way of survey (just a couple of minutes long).

 

It's all self-interest of course, but this seems to be a better way to gauge overall sentiment collectively from owners rather than multiple solo submissions - probably in Thai language.

My wife didn't received such an email from Airbnb. I'm guessing she didn't receive it because her Airbnb is a townhouse, not a condo. Are you renting a condo on Airbnb?

33 minutes ago, advancebooking said:

Actually I didnt mention something. If either the tenant or the landlord go to the rev dept with the lease agreement and buy legal stamps from them and stick them on the actual contract then you know 100% you have to pay taxes. This is the only circumstance by which any thai pays taxes on rent. 

Since my wife has an agreement with Airbnb and they are including VAT as a charge against her profits, wouldn't this information be similar to the situation you posted where she will need to pay taxes on her rental income?

This topic is of interest to me as well since my wife is in a similar situation to the OP. We don't live in Thailand and my wife has never paid tax in Thailand even when she was living there many years ago. However, she now receives rental income for her townhouse that is available to rent through Airbnb. I asked her about taxes and she said she has a friend that works in the government (revenue department?) that can explain what she needs to do. Airbnb collects VAT but I'm sure she will need to start paying personal income tax on top of the VAT.

Perhaps she should establish a Thai company so she can deduct expenses to reduce her tax liability.

3 hours ago, DLButler said:

Interesting.  I see a LOT of listings saying it's owned by a Thai company.  So avoid these?

 

When you say illegal, are you referring to a foreigner buying a Thai-owned property/interest?

He means the use of a Thai company to circumvent laws prohibiting foreign ownership is illegal.

He recommends only purchasing a condo that does not need to be owned by a Thai company. The condos owned by Thai companies most likely already had/have a 49% foreigner ownership.

16 minutes ago, Thomas72 said:

What term is used in listings when no more foreigners can buy?

There won't be a term used in listings in this case. Why would anyone advertising to foreigners willingly let them know they can't own it directly?

If you are interested in a specific condo or condo building, you need to check with the condo management what the percentage of foreign ownership is. If the seller is Thai, you need to research this yourself. If the seller is a Thai company, either research if it can be owned directly by you as a foreigner or walk away.

8 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

My understanding is this:

 

If the testator was a foreigner who brought money into Thailand for the purpose of purchasing the condo, and this was duly documented at the Land Department at the time it was transferred to the testator, then the testator's foreign beneficiary would not need to have permanent residency in order to be able to register and keep the unit in their name. 

 

The foreign beneficiary inherits not only the condo itself from the foreign testator, but also the foreign testator's right to own the condo by virtue of the funds having been brought in from abroad. 

 

If the testator is a Thai, then the foreign beneficiary will need to have PR or sell within 12 months. I don't think there is a work-around involving money from abroad for this scenario.

 

But I suggest you get this clarified by a lawyer.

I remember a thread on this forum a few years ago where a foreigner inherited a condo from his/her foreign father and either had to bring in the government assessed value of the condo from outside of Thailand or sell the inherited unit.

If that is the case, then I would expect the same would be true for a foreigner inheriting a condo from a Thai, assuming the foreign allocation is under 49%.

I don't own anything in Thailand, so I can only comment on what I have read on here before. My wife owns several properties that will all be inherited by our Thai/US citizen children.

I agree this needs clarification from a reputable lawyer.

21 hours ago, cowellandrew said:

My house is in my sister inlaws name cant really remember how that happened it was 35 years ago,

That happened because 35 years ago, a Thai woman married to a foreign man was prohibited from owning property if acquired after marriage. The law changed sometime around 1999. I know this because I knew a man married to a Thai back in 1995 and he said his brother-in-law owned "his" house because he and his wife couldn't own it. 

13 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Just a typical thread started by someone who hasn't a clue what they are talking about or asking, pops back in to answer 1 irrelevant question, while providing no info for anyone to give advice.

 

That advice ranging from useless, no experience of, hearsay to simple Thai bashing of all things.

 

Only useful answer, once info provided (age 51), and simple solution from the get go, just put in the daughter's name to begin with.  3 pages could have been answered in 2 posts.

So true. The OP hasn't provided enough information leaving other posters to speculate. Even his one follow-up response was a bit vague. I assume he means that his daughter is 51 years old. Additionally, we don't know if his daughter is a Thai citizen or not. Many have assumed that she is Thai, but my guess based upon his interest in having his daughter inherit the villa led me to assume she isn't Thai.

7 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

This is the quote of the day in my humble opinion!

My understand of the law, and based upon information provided on this forum previously, is that when a foreigner inherits a condo from another foreigner, the new owner needs to bring in funds from abroad equivalent to the assessed value of the condo. Either that or they must sell the condo. Previous posts in this forum usually identify the foreigner inheriting the condo as a Westerner. However, I believe this stipulation applies to anyone that is not a Thai citizen. Being born in Thailand does not automatically confer Thai citizenship unless at least one of the parents is Thai. So, your daughter is not Thai and therefore must bring in funds from outside of Thailand in order to keep the condo.

You can state in your will that you want her to receive the condo. And if you make her the executor of your will, she should have time to either come up with the funds to put the condo in her name or sell it and receive the net proceeds from the sale of the condo.

Another alternative would be for her to apply for Thai citizenship. Whether that is even possible for her, I don't know.

I don't have information specifically on what to expect as an adult. However, I will say that the process to get Thai ID cards for my daughters who were minors at the time took a whole day. That was in Phatthalung. In addition to getting them entered into their grandparents' house book, they required interviews with others in the community that could vouch for them being children of my wife. They kept asking for photo copies of everything, so we kept having to go to a local print shop multiple times during the process.

The official processing the applications created handwritten reports that were passed on to a secretary who entered those reports into a computer. Once the girls had the Thai IDs, they were able to get Thai passports in Hat Yai which only took about an hour to process. Of course we had to drive to Hat Yai and back from Phatthalung, so the total time was about half a day.

I hope you don't have to go through the same agonizing process that we did. By the way, I'm interested in finding out how your application goes because we didn't obtain a Thai ID for our son because my wife didn't want him to register for the military draft. We intend to get his Thai ID after he's in his 30's.

14 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Airbnb really only works in places like New York, Sydney etc, Where hotels are in short supply and they are expensive,

Otherwise, Thailand has 1,000s of great well priced hotels, completely legal, with all the usual facilities. There is literally no demand for Airbnb.

As for the OPs question, there is no margin at all.

To be competitive you would be renting for as low as 500 baht a night, and it costs 300 to have it cleaned, another 200 for fresh linen, 100 a day for elec, water, internet, condo fees etc. Wages for someone to meet and greet, and whatever cut Airbnb takes.

I dont know why this still gets discussed, its illegal, and there is no money to be made.

In my opinion, there are cases where an Airbnb rental could work in Thailand. For example, when a family of 8 needs a booking, getting multiple hotel rooms could be more expensive than renting a house that accommodates up to 8 guests.

I have a family of 5 and I often look for places to rent wherever we travel that can accommodate all of us in a single place. In Thailand, we often have to book 2 rooms which isn't too bad, but if we can get a place with 2 bedrooms, we prefer that option. Unfortunately, there aren't many hotels or serviced apartments in Thailand that have such an accommodation.

I have rented apartments in Rome, Paris, Tokyo, Kyoto, Brooklyn, etc. instead of hotel rooms because it was much more cost effective than booking hotel rooms.

11 hours ago, jaideedave said:

You've just described my situation.The difference being they built a 5br Pool Villa next to us.These are called "small hotels" and are only allowed to Thai citizens.The lady who looks after the moo ban probably has it in her name and the real owners are Chinese.There are about 5-6 examples in the immediate area now. At a glance it looks legal. Our complaints about loud pool parties at 3 am to city hall(Pattaya) result in crickets.We've upgraded out adjoining wall/windows to the tune of 60k. It helps but thats all.

I am now reduced to childish revenge like a prolonged air horn blast at 0700 for their amusement.

FYI It's listed on Booking.com.I wonder if contacting them will bear any fruit?

Based upon your response, I believe the situation I outlined is legal since a townhouse is owned by a Thai. How else could it be owned other than by a Thai or a Thai LTD?

I know this thread is about buying a condo and renting on Airbnb or some other short term rental site. However, there are posts about a villa being rented out short term. My question is, assuming that someone has a townhouse, is it illegal to rent it out short term? If this is the only property being rented out by the landlord, it doesn't appear to violate the Hotel Act which requires a license when renting something like 4 or 5 units or more. And if the townhouse doesn't have an HOA to restrict short term leases, is there any reason such a rental would be considered illegal?

How about this situation? Brother owes a bank money on land but can't pay the debt. His sister offers to pay off the debt but only if he transfers the land to her. The land has been owned by the brother for many years. Over time, the brother hopes to pay back the sister so that he can own the land again, but that might not happen which is why the sister requests that the land be transferred to her in the meantime. What will the transfer fees and taxes be in this situation?

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Don't see a breather pipe, but that won't cause your problem.

I'm wondering if you are responding to the wrong poster. The OP is mateusz1945 who provided to photo of the pipes. MangoKorat has only posted in text about his situation.

On 10/12/2023 at 2:58 AM, JS82 said:

Thank you for the information. I am not really concerned about bank or mortgage.  Just for a thai citizen, they could buy land/house/condo at a Thai price and have more options,  I hope PR holders could have the same benefit but obviously it is not possible. 

Good lucky with your filing for the Thai citizenship.   I may do the same when the time comes.

I have read in this forum that one of the benefits of having permanent residency is that when purchasing a condo, you aren't required to have all the funds coming from outside of Thailand. Your purchase will still be designated as part of the foreign quota.

I could be completely wrong about this, so if this is of interest to you, I suggest you research this or get advice from a lawyer.

3 hours ago, omnipresent said:

It's illegal though to make a false statement to government isn't it?

Is your marriage registered in Thailand? If not, then you don't need to indicate that you are married.

For example, my Thai wife has purchased real estate several times since we were married in the US. However, because we haven't registered the marriage in Thailand and she still uses her maiden name on her Thai ID and passport, I haven't been required to provide any consent or sign that document indicating that all the funds come only from my wife.

If your marriage is registered in Thailand, that a different situation and I can't comment on whether or not you need spousal consent.

6 hours ago, ThaiLawOnline said:

No, I do not have a full list and there are titles that you rarely see.

Once, I saw a Por Bor Tor but it wasn’t 5. I think it was 6. The land was belonging to the army, not the government like 5. My page about title deeds have not been updated for 10 years!! And I think there are few mistakes.

 

The first Tanarak I saw was belonging to the mother of my ex, she was renting a place 4,000 baht that probably has a value of 10 million. These can be sold, they are often, for example, in the middle of Nakhon Ratchasima. It belongs to the government but it is like a tradition to give low rent and can be extremely valuable.

 

Sor Kor is also something I rarely see. Or title deeds of 100 years old are kind of cool to see. I had one from Thonglor 2 weeks ago. It probably worths few hundreds million baht. 
 

Anything done at the land department, Nor Sor Sam or higher is fine.

Sor Por Kor is a no no. It is written in the back « not transmissible except by inheritance ».

Por Bor Tor is ok for Thais, for foreigners married to a Thai or not, know the limits.

 

Here is not bad if you understand Thai:

https://www.madamhome.in.th/ประเภทของที่ดิน/#:~:text=โฉนดที่ดินนับว่าเป็น,ซื้อขาย โอน จำนอง ค้ำประกันได้

 

The page discusses different types of land title deeds in Thailand. The main ones are:

• Nor Sor 3 Gor (NS3G) - This is a certificate issued by the government stating ownership of the land. It allows the holder to sell, transfer, mortgage the land.
• Nor Sor 3 (NS3) - This is an earlier version of the ownership certificate with fewer rights than NS3G.
• Por Bor Tor 5 (PBT5) - This is a temporary ownership document issued before getting the full NS3G. It has limitations on rights.
• Suan Tua Por - This is a certificate for agricultural/farming land usage rights.

The page goes into more details on the documents, including size restrictions, transferability, etc. A key point is that NS3G is considered the strongest ownership document, while the others have varying limitations. The process to upgrade from one type to another is also covered.

 

(It is better written NS3K to my opinion, which include the one over NS3See).

 

Most law firms keep their knowledge for themselves while I am trying to provide people as much as I can. Give me 3-4 months and I will have what you want. It needs research, time, and I am busy the next 2 months.

 

Sebastien H. Brousseau.

 

 

Your post got me to search for "Sor Tor Gor" land title because this is the type of land title that my wife purchased (and sold) many years ago. Interestingly, your website showed the first answer from my Google search:

Land document issued by the forest department granting the right to a private person to reside and live in a specific area of land in reserved forest land (public land prohibited for private ownership), a sor.tor.gor gives a personal right (like the right of habitation) and cannot be sold but can be passed on by inheritance.

Glad I finally discovered what that type of land title was after all these years.

On 8/24/2023 at 5:36 AM, zappalot said:

Ok, lets make this more interesting: seller exposed a fraudulent scheme run by the JPM/management company, JPM received a prison sentence of one year plus fine and head of management company received a huge fine and due to this JPM was even removed from her position only to be replaced by the next scammer who is just angry to the seller that he exposed criminal action.

 

So, friendly approach will not help, no matter what, office has order not to hand out the paper.
They prefer to go to prison before they would do what they should do...

And you're still interested in buying into this condo development knowing all this?

I wouldn't want to have to deal with a JPM/management company like this unless you are getting a significantly reduced price. Even then, do you really want to have scammers running the place?

Because we never registered our US marriage in Thailand and because my wife's Thai ID lists her as single with it showing her maiden name, I never needed to sign anything or appear at the land office every time she purchased real estate in Thailand.

I assume those of you required to sign a document stating you lay no claim to the property either have your marriage registered in Thailand or your spouse has changed her last name on official Thai documents.

I found it interesting that even when I had to be present and sign my name when my daughters received their Thai IDs, the officials didn't have any issue with my wife keeping her marital status as single.

On 7/29/2023 at 2:05 AM, Longwood50 said:

I tried googling JensenZ several different ways and came up with nothing.  Do you have a link? 

 

JensenZ is a username on this forum like Longwood50 is for you. Hopefully you figured this out from JensenZ's latest post.

18 minutes ago, Delight said:

Thanks 

 

Useful advice.

Someone -back in time -has created a lake on this land. Long and thin. Lake may not accurately describe it. It is however a source of water.

The aim of this exercise is to provide a source of income for my wife -when she becomes a widow.

 

 

 

Have you been quoted a price from the owner?

So you get the land owner to go to the land office and place a usufruct in your name on the chanote. Then a week or so later, the land owner, you, and your son go to the land office for the land owner to sell the land with the usufruct to your son. Do you really think the land office is going to allow this? I'm fairly certain that if the land owner sells the land to your son first and then you request a usufruct, the usufruct would be denied.

My guess, and yes this is only a guess, is that the land office won't accept the purchase of land by your son if it is encumbered by a usufruct - any usufruct, not just a usufruct with you as the purchaser's father on it.

If the sale is rejected, what recourse does the original seller have now that the usufruct is on the chanote? At that point, they have essentially given their land away to you. Would they trust you to go back to the land office and remove the usufruct at the time the sale is rejected or soon after?

Let us know if you are able to complete this transaction.