Tarragona

Don't buy them from Chatuchak market.

A lot of other shops where you might go to buy your fish, get their stock from Chatuchak market.

I'd like to go into it a bit more. I've had a look at Ubuntu from live cds and feel I would probably be happy with it.

Is dual boot Linux/Windows fairly straightforward? I'd like to feel that I could very easily get back to something I know if I'm having tearing-my-hair-out moments with something new.

I enjoy it.

They seem to take more of a look at how events affect ordinary people than other channels, particularly in the Middle East, of course, but other parts of the world too.

I've now seen two discussions with people from different sides of the Thai political situation who are actively involved in what's going on, something I haven't seen on other channels. They haven't gone too deep but enough to get a thread on here locked when someone reported the first one.

T-Bone, reggae/ska, are fun and have just been playing Glastonbury for the 2nd time.

But for great Thai reggae, you can't beat Job 2 Do.

I only read 2 or 3 pages, and Paul I agree with most of what you said. You got it quite right.

Thank you, I know it has to be right because it comes from the mouth of the people. I only wanted to share some of the feelings that were shared with me. Some suggest I talk to other Thai to get a different perspective??? I didn't solicit this information in the first place and I am not going to spend my Holiday in Thailand researching Thai/visitor relations LOL

There is no changing what was told to me. I just wanted to share..

If you're saying that Thais find objectionable foreigners objectionable and would like to beat 10 heaps out of them, I think you're quite right. Many farangs here feel exactly the same.

If you're saying that there is a growing undercurrent of massive resentment against farangs in Thailand, I think you're quite wrong. From my daily experience I know you're completely wrong. Farangs do not register in the thoughts of most Thais going about their daily lives.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of him setting out to drive in the first place, from what I've seen I think the young man has faced up to the situation and not tried to evade his responsibilities since the accident.

Interesting that from the two reports at the beginning (name slightly different in each), in the first the security guard heard a loud noise but by the second had seen a speeding BMW hit the woman.

He sticks out in my memory as the guy who scandalously evaded his mandatory military conscription duties required of all young Thai men. Seems he still hasn't learned responsibility yet.... how unfortunate it cost someone their life this time around.

He eventually did do his military service and received a lot of praise for how he went about it. Since then he has been held as something of a role model.

From what I've heard so far on TV and radio, he's getting quite an easy ride over this, though the story I heard this morning does not entirely match The Nation story posted here.

On the radio they didn't quote the security guard as saying he actually saw the crash or that the car was speeding. Rather than Sornram 'disappearing', it was said that he'd been taken to hospital by a passerby. There was hardly a mention that someone had been killed - thought I'd misheard that at first.

Did you read that I am relating to you what was told to me by "Real Thai's" who live in Thailand? Not my prespective of their thoughts, but their thoughts.

In that case, the problem quite clearly relates to the farangs that your friends have met and seen. I must say I've come across the type of farang they're talking about too and, yes, that can have a negative effect that extends to others.

I'm sorry that your friends have never been in a position where they are able to meet farangs who do not look down on Thai culture or throw their money around like they own the country (maybe you could introduce them to some?).

It's quite natural for such stereotypes to arise, I think. But my own colleagues are quite happy to ask me about and discuss farang behaviour because they know that, in the main, we probably share quite similar views. That comes down to basic human values and respect and we don't have any serious differences there.

There are a number of farangs in our workplace and I don't think any of the Thais here (real Thais living in Thailand) have arrived at the same conclusions as your friends based on their contact with farangs here. I've worked in a couple of places where there were Thais (usually wealthy, self-important types) who looked down on everyone else, Thai and farang, and treated everyone like shit. It would be fair to say that most others, Thai and farang, shared similar views about them. If they were the only Thais I'd ever had contact with, I suppose that would be my mind made up about all 60 million.

The doctor story doesn't ring true. It would be very strange for a senior doctor to be told to that. And any resentment would most likely be directed at the (more senior?) person who told him to do it rather than at the farang.

Of course 'can' is often used for asking permission.

As a general guide, "MayI..." could be taken as little bit more formal than "Can I.."

We could just move to South Africa.

Funny you say that.

Because the local cable station (not UBC) we have here in Thailand (only 900 baht/year) is obviously crap BUT at English footie time, one of their crap TV channels is temporarily replaced by South African SuperSports or something, complete with Gary Bailey and panel as well as the UK commentary. Once the day's football is over, crap TV channel mysteriously reappears.

God forbid, I don't wish to defend ManU or their supporters ,nor am I naive enough to suggest that they don't have their bad apples too, but the amount of bad publicity surrounding Liverpool Euro away games far outstrips that of even the Mancs.

If you're talking about recent years, what is all the bad publicity surrounding Liverpool Euro games?

If you're going back further, then, even as a Liverpool supporter, it's quite surprising to see how highly respected and supported Liverpool remained around Europe.

I'll always be on the side of real supporters, mate. But I won't bury my head in the sand in passing the buck entirely on those passionateless cretins who are supposed to be running the game by ignoring the glaringly obvious from our side too.

One of the most encouraging things from this episode is that matchgoing Liverpool fans do not seem to have buried their heads in the sand.

The fact that the likes of Michael Howard and the Daily Mail have been vocal in their support of the Liverpool fans is a bit difficult to take in though.

Whether UEFA will hold their hands up to their own inadequacies remains to be seen.

What was the trouble with Liverpool fans at the FA Cup game?

Des Kelly, Daily Mail

Cheap shot from a cowardly crew

00:33am 5th June 2007

Hand me a felt pen. If UEFA want to tag Liverpool fans as the worst in Europe then it is only right they should be rewarded for this lazy insult with a cheap label of their own. And here it is: "The biggest cowards in football."

See how easy it is to throw insults around? Stung by criticism of the ticketing arrangements and chaotic crowd control at the Champions League Final in Athens, Michel Platini's administration has proved to be astonishingly unstatesmanlike with its response.

Rather than examine the problems like a sensible governing body should, UEFA decided to stamp their feet, squeal "it's so unfair!" and trot out deliberately sensationalist claptrap to try to divert attention elsewhere.

The communications director of European football, William Gaillard, actually said this about the followers of Liverpool: "What other set of fans steal tickets from their fellow supporters or out of the hands of children?"

Dunno William. But a few, I'd guess. Even if a couple of kids did have their tickets robbed on the night, let's compare this sensationalist, unsubstantiated and, frankly, silly accusation with some of the crimes that have been perpetrated by the followers of a few other teams across Europe recently.

I'm thinking specifically about the murder of a policeman at an Italian stadium when a homemade bomb blew up in his face.

Then there was the French gendarme almost killed by German thugs. The routine and quite blatant racism at some Spanish and Eastern European grounds, a blight that UEFA have feebly failed to tackle.

The tendency of the Roman riot squad to beat visiting supporters senseless for no obvious reason. The attack on a referee in Denmark this week. I could go on.

When judged against that pile of paperwork sitting in UEFA's file marked "Trouble", I'd say snatching a ticket from some nipper might rank as a relatively minor offence. But Gaillard appears peculiarly keen to hype up any English problem.

He adds: "There have been 25 incidents involving Liverpool fans away from home since 2003 and these are in the report. Most teams' supporters do not cause any trouble at all."

This is an interesting claim.

William has obviously never tried to slip away from a Lazio game while trying to avoid the inconvenience of a sharp blade in the buttock.

Nor can he have danced through the streets of Marseilles as residents added a splash of local colour by throwing bottles.

But what about those 25 incidents said by UEFA to involve Liverpool over the past four years? We await the details.

English football will have the chance to verify the substance of these charges when the "undercover report" is handed to Sports Minister Richard Caborn today.

If many prove to be as minor as his ticket- snatching accusation then Gaillard had better look out. His job is in jeopardy, or at least it should be.

Particularly as he made this rather contradictory pronouncement before the Champions League Final: "The two groups of supporters have a tradition of good behaviour and at this point we are expecting that to continue."

A tradition of good behaviour or the worst in Europe? He just can't make his mind up. Perhaps William is just overwrought and in need of a lie down in a darkened room. For 20 years or so.

Let me make one thing clear. Nobody in their right mind doubts Liverpool fans were partly to blame for the disturbances in Athens.

Too many turned up without tickets, some tried to bribe, fake, cheat and steal their way into the ground, even if it meant that a fellow supporter would lose their own legitimate place.

Sadly, like all big clubs, Liverpool has its fair share of scumbags. It also has more than its reasonable quota of people who believe it is their divine right to see the game by whatever means possible.

This is not a new phenomenon. As the crowds hustled towards the old Wembley 18 years ago, I watched one ticketless Liverpool fan vault over the barrier and make a run for it.

Three more were busy scrambling up the outside wall, attempting to break in through the stairwell above.

I vividly remember these scenes even now for one particular reason.

It happened at the FA Cup Final on Saturday, May 20, 1989. Thirty five days after Hillsborough.

With the emotional wounds of that day still horribly raw for so many people, it seemed inconceivable to me that a few would be so selfish when Merseyside was gathering to offer its respects.

I was amazed at their stupidity, their insensitivity. But it would have been ridiculous and lazy to talk about "Liverpool fans shaming the club".

It was one knot of irresponsible idiots, cretins who were completely unrepresentative of the mood of the city.

Yet, spin forward nearly two decades and UEFA believe they are justified in using the same kind of warped logic to ###### an entire club. Why? Because they must know they are at least as culpable for the problems and want to shift the blame.

UEFA's distribution of the tickets was woefully inadequate, creating an unprecedented demand. The stadium itself was ill-equipped to handle such a high-profile event - it had no turnstiles for starters.

The policing and security was said by most observers to be haphazard at best, panicked and belligerent at worst.

In this kind of environment, no wonder chaos reigned; no wonder fans with tickets found they were excluded; no wonder some cheats tried to exploit this lack of order.

Milan didn't even sell their ticket allocation. Just imagine the scenario if two English clubs had made the final and Manchester United had played Liverpool instead?

Cheap as they were, the effects of Gaillard's remarks are potentially catastrophic. With one sloppy, stupid statement he has increased the temperature right across Europe.

Supporters from Liverpool or any other English club travelling abroad can now expect to be met by an even greater level of hostility, to be herded and detained like cattle, baton-charged, penned in and locked in their coaches or trains.

Good or bad, it doesn't matter. Liverpool fans are "the worst". English fans are the "worst". So they 'deserve' what they get.

Sometimes it's true. But not always and UEFA are spineless if they hide behind insults instead of dealing with the real issues.

http://in.today.reuters.com/News/newsArtic...ia-301458-1.xml

Liverpool won't face sanctions over final - report

Mon Jun 4, 2007 11:22 PM IST

By Darren Ennis

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Liverpool will not face any sanctions by UEFA following a report into security problems at last month's Champion League Final, senior sources at European soccer's governing body said on Monday.

Citing the document, to be submitted to British sports minister Richard Caborn on Tuesday, sources confirmed no action will be taken against the English club, despite evidence that a number of Liverpool fans were to blame for the trouble in Athens.

"The report draws up some proposals, not sanctions. There will be no disciplinary action taken against Liverpool," one UEFA source told Reuters.

UEFA previously blamed Liverpool fans with forged tickets or those with no ticket for forcing their way into Athens' Olympic Stadium on May 23 for the match against AC Milan, while dozens of fans with genuine tickets were refused entry.

When Liverpool fans tried to enter the stadium, the situation threatened to escalate out of control and Greek police fired tear gas and used batons.

But although the report acknowledges that the trouble "was at the Liverpool end" and their opponents "were not to blame", it does not point the finger at the club or the majority of its fans.

"The report is more of a narrative on what happened from start to finish and proposes how to deal with it better in the future such as better police cooperation and a better strategy," another source said.

Ironically, the report will highlight the benefits of police tactics already used by British police forces at soccer matches, the source said.

BLAME GAME

UEFA, Liverpool and British authorities will hope news of the report's contents will calm tensions in the aftermath of the match which has led to a war of words over who was to blame for the trouble.

The atmosphere worsened ahead of Tuesday's report when a top UEFA official indicated that the document would identify Liverpool as a problem club, pointing to 25 incidents involving the English club.

However, both UEFA and British government officials said they were not seeking a confrontation when Caborn meets UEFA President Michel Platini on Tuesday in Brussels.

Caborn called on Monday for "an end to the blame game".

"This is not about UEFA versus Liverpool or UEFA versus England fans, we must all stop playing the blame game and stop pointing fingers at people," he told Reuters.

William Gaillard, advisor to UEFA President Michel Platini and the official at the centre of the dispute, told Reuters:

"Yes the troublemakers were Liverpool fans, but these were a minority of Liverpool fans. As I said the day after the final, 99 percent of Liverpool fans are fine, but this minority causes the problems.

"They need to be taught that attending a game is not a right it is a privilege which you must pay for. You can't take a tube in London for instance without for a proper ticket."

GATES OPENED

The report will say there was a moment of panic when the Greek police rightly opened the gates to prevent further trouble, stating that "a few hundred of the many thousands of supporters took the law into their own hands".

"The report says Liverpool stewards, who are capable at home in their own stadium, were unable to be influential on the night," the source said,

The UEFA document also includes evidence from various Liverpool fans with legitimate tickets who were forced to sit on each other's laps -- or stand up -- as a result of forged duplicate tickets.

A second report and more detailed report will be collated and sent to Britain's Home Office in the coming weeks, UEFA said.

It confirmed that a probe was also continuing into how around 800 Liverpool supporters got tickets in the Milan end which were known to be distributed to AC Milan.

Can't remember if it's cited above. But stealing tickets out of kids hands , now that really is the pits.

Yes, it is. And I don't know any Liverpool fans who disagree.

Of course there were dozens of young kids in Athens who had tickets taken out of their hands. Because William Gaillard said it, so it must be true. I've read one eye witness report of a father with a kid having his tickets taken, but let's not get in the way of a good tabloid headline. If he'd talked about stealing from other fans, rather than just kids, he'd have been on more solid ground. His choice of words betrays his agenda. There were 7 arrests made from 30-40,000 fans.

The issue that UEFA have created, and now backtracked on incidentally, and that you have brought up in the OP, says that Liverpool fans are the worst in Europe. There was almost no trouble in Athens apart from the incident at the stadium. Where are the media pictures of Reds singing together with Milan fans around the city after the game? Not much of a story I suppose. At least the Greek media picked up on the dozens of Reds who visited the memorial to the Olympiakos fans who died in a stadium disaster.

And I'll think you'll find that Liverpool fans still have one of the best reputations around Europe, amongst the clubs and fans (and police forces) that they've visited at least - if not the people sat at home reading the reports from UEFA.

It would be interesting to know what exactly the 25 incidents include - flag stealing is such a terrible crime, isn't it?

What Liverpool fans have not been involved in over the last couple of years (courtesy of the Liverpool Echo):

# On February 2 a police officer was killed in Sicily when fans rioted during a derby match between Catania and Palermo.

# On November 24, 2006, a French police officer shot dead a Paris-Saint Germain football fan after being turned on by a mob during racist violence that followed the team's defeat by Israeli side Hapoel Tel-Aviv.

# On Saturday night a referee was attacked on the pitch during an international match between Sweden and Denmark. The game had to be abandoned.

# On September 15, 2004, Anders Frisk was forced to abandon the Champions League match between AS Roma and Dinamo Kiev after he was felled by a lighter thrown from the stands.

# On April 4 this year 12 Manchester United fans ended up in hospital after Italian Ultra hooligans ran riot around the Roma v United Champions League quarter final.

But right, Liverpool's fans are the worst.

Funny though, one week Gaillard and UEFA are praising Liverpool fans (and note the awards they've dished out to Liverpool fans since 2001) - then when they've screwed up they have a quick change. And Gaillard's tabloid, inflammatory comments are hardly worthy of the spokesman for a major European organization just in the style of language he uses. And there are reports that Milan fans were on the receiving end of baton charges and the like from the Greek police.

UEFA are a corrupt organization getting their excuses in early. Go on any Liverpool fan site to see what the real fans thought of those bunking in. No excuses for that.

But to suddenly come up with 25 incidents, unrelated to that game by the way, when you're taking some flak for your handling of the game is rather convenient. And if UEFA really had this dossier and knew Liverpool fans were evil scumbags, why assure one and all that there would be no problems and not bother taking any precautions.

Some of the support I'm hearing for Liverpool over this, strangely, is coming from hardcore Man U fans. They know the score here and have been on the receiving end themselves.

The signatory must be a British passport holder and they must even put their passport number on the form (presumably so they can check the authenticity of the signature from their records.) They even phoned up my wifes signatory to check that he was who he said he was and that he actually did know her. I'm not sure if they check the status of the signatory though.

So it looks as though if you dont have a British subject who has known you for 2 years in Thailand you may just have to get a friend from overseas who does. If you do have a British mate I would be inclined not to worry too much about his profession

If you do not know a British national or other Commonwealth

citizen locally with those qualifications, a citizen of the

country in which you are residing may complete and sign

the form, provided he/she has a similar standing in that

country has known you for two years and the Consul

considers his/her signature to be acceptable.

I didn't use a British passport holder to sign my daughter's photo. A Thai colleague's signature was acceptable - I think any professional person is OK.

I'm afraid there's just something about Thaksin and his square head that makes you dislike him.

My favourite PM in the time I've been in Thailand was Chatchai Choonhavan - he may have presided over the infamous "Buffet Cabinet" but he was a great character and an extremely likeable fellow.

(I thought Thaksin got off to an excellent start but the problem was that once he'd won a lot of people over he got down to his real 'business'.)

2.hillsborough - tradegy due to fans breaking in again without paying,thus all surging into an already full middle terracing

This is just NOT true. You may believe it but the perpetuation of such lies does an injustice to all true football fans. If you are interested in what really happened that day, please spend some time going through the site at:

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

There are no excuses for the morons in Athens whatsoever and if you stop in at any Liverpool web forums you will find out what most fans think of them. Many many fans though had a great time without realizing there were any problems.

There other wider issues than the fans' behaviour that should be looked at - and UEFA's lightning response to wash their hands of any responsibility, when they chose a stadium that didn't even have turnstiles, says everything about that organization.

Your qualifications and experience won't count for much at a government university in terms of monetary compensation - it's just the standard package.

There is a photo in one of the papers.

The man wanted to get back together with his wife. When she wouldn't agree he shot her before killing himself.

It would be interesting to know how this has been attributed to climate change.

I'm not a sceptic on climate change in any way but I wonder if there is any specific scientific evidence to back it up here as opposed to environmental degradation like the loss of the mangroves, for example.

Once Milan were allowed to play in the competiiton, the issue of whether they should be in the final becomes irrelevant. Already done and dusted.

The first goal was a jammy one. Handball? He didn't know anything about it. One to argue about. But Liverpool didn't lose to one goal. The second one was very good.

Liverpool lost because they don't have a top quality striker and their wide men were not up to the job. It's a shame because they played much better than 2005.

But that's football.

For the kind of position you seem to be interested in, you could try looking at (some of) the international schools. You'll probably get a fairer scrutiny of your credentials.

Whole family seems like a total shower of sh!t. Pretty common amongst "the elite."

This is the "new elite" that rose to power through democratic system, thugs who have taken total control of local politics, not to be confused with the "old elite" - aristocrats and civil servants.

To give the good citizens of Samut Prakan and the democratic system some credit, although the family still holds sway at local level (much more difficult to put up viable opposition), they and their 'people' have fared rather badly in national elections for some time.