Tarragona

I saw that on the news. Quite spectacular, with a large tongue of flame as the row of balloons went up.

Well worth a look is Sujit Wongtet's book คนไทยมาจากไหน. It has a very full discussion of the origins of the words "Siam" and "Thai" and different ethnic groups within SE Asia and China. It really is a fascinating read.

Something I've already posted in another thread.

I came into the middle of a discussion of this story on the จส100 radio station. It was said that authorities are trying to establish if the 'van gangs' really exist. Stories are coming from all parts of the country.

An NGO working against human trafficking was mentioned and figures compiled by them show that from 2004 (on their website 2003) to the present, over 400 children have been reported missing (all cases, not van abductions). About 30 were children below the age of 11 and the rest were 11-18.

I later googled for more information on the group, in Thai มูลนิธิกระจกเงา.

One of their projects is http://www.backtohome.org

There is a statement on that website which says that they have sent staff to areas where kidnap rumours have been reported including Khon Kaen, Srisaket, Chainat, Petchaburi and Ratchaburi. They have been unable to turn up a single verifiable case.

Where they have heard stories from local people, there are no police reports but this could be because the families haven't filed reports, the police thought the children had just got lost or have deliberately kept it quiet. The group has also received a report of two 10-year olds being kidnapped from a department store in Bangkapi (kids returned but no arrests made). They would like clarification from the police on this case and all the rumours that are circulating.

They reiterate that at present, following the investigations that they've made, the stories remain nothing but unsubstantiated rumours. The full piece is here:

http://www.backtohome.org/autopage-new/sho...=56&d_id=56

Going back a few years, there used to be a vendor in our local market who cooked the most delicious Pla Sa Ba cooked with various spices, ginger etc., all wrapped in foil. The sauce was her own recipe too. Wonderful. She gave up because of the cost of the fish. I still see her around and she always stops for a chat, asks about the family etc.

I think you can get the gladwrap versions in Lotus, Carrefour etc. I seem to remember trying once and it was rather poor.

I would imagine it will quickly become apparent that the politician's son wasn't the one who wielded a knife or put in any of the fatal blows.

๋ี๋ีJust to add, I've done some googling for the organization referred to on the radio (มูลนิธิกระจกเงา) and it seems they have sent their staff to check out kidnapping reports in different parts of the country and have not found genuine cases as yet.

They would like the police to come out with some clarification on the stories.

While they are not saying the gangs do not exist, all they have found so far are unsubstantiated rumours.

ขอชี้แจ้งให้ทราบว่า ข่าวแก๊งค์รถตู้ที่มีการพูดกันตามเขตพื้นที่ต่างๆ นั้น เมื่อตรวจสอบข้อเท็จจริงพบว่าเป็นเพียงข่าวลือ

For the full piece (in Thai):

http://www.backtohome.org/autopage-new/sho...=56&d_id=56

As I was driving home yesterday, this story was being discussed on the จส100 radio station. I didn't hear the beginning so don't know who the official being interviewed was.

It seems that the authorities are looking into the stories of the 'van gang' but are as yet unsure whether they really exist. Stories are coming in from every part of the country including Bangkok and he advised people to keep a special watch on their kids.

To put this into some kind of perspective, figures were quoted about numbers of missing children. The figures were apparently collated by an NGO who work against human trafficking but include all children reported missing, not just those who have been abducted. How they got the figures and how reliable they are I don't know.

From 2004 to the present, they report over 400 missing children. About 30 were children below the age of 11 and the rest were 11-18. I would imagine quite a number in the 11-18 age group could just be kids running away from home. If the figures are in any way reliable, it wouldn't seem to suggest that mass kidnappings are occurring.

That is no reason not to watch out for your kids though.

It is Bangkok Thai that is identified as 'central Thai', the educational standard.

And even here we're talking about an 'educated' Bangkok Thai, not the Bangkokney of the market place.

Bob, have you already submitted the questionnaire?

I had much the same questions as you before I went for my interview, so I was surprised that the officer basically did not ask us anything - she just pointed out one question that I had overlooked. We signed the paternity declarations in front of her and that was the only active part my wife took. My impression was that the decision would be taken in the UK based solely on the documents.

I did this recently, though my daughter's in her teens now.

The interview wasn't really an interview as such. The officer simply pointed out answers on the form (submitted some weeks previously) that needed further clarification. There wasn't much so we were in and out in 5-10 minutes. The officer was extremely friendly but I don't think she has any input into the official process, so it was very relaxed and informal. The wife was extremely pleased to be told she doesn't look old enough to have a teenage daughter (I don't think that was any kind of trick interview technique as she has all the documentary evidence in front of her).

We're now waiting for the decision to come back from London. The documents say 8 weeks but she told us it's more likely to be 10.

Well, that's quite incredible. Hardly finished typing and the embassy have rung to say that the birth certificate is ready for collection. Well under 8 weeks. Happy days!!

But how does the Thai version สหราชอาฌาจักร differ from its English equivalent? Unless you can find a way to introduce capital letters in Thai, why should they need anything else? How many other countries in the world could it refer to?

"England" or "UK" both do fine for the postal service. I usually write "England" on letters but put "UK" for my father in Wales.

Catch them and hang them high.

No hang the posters high -- those who have the temerity to report actual information that was told to them by real people on the ground.

Very little could be actual information though.

When we arrived in the village in Ubon once, mother-in-law made us go immediately to the temple to announce our arrival because there was a ghost on the prowl (phi pop, I think - is that the one that eats entrails). The story was corroborated by a number of neighbours who were present at the time. An old woman had been found dead with her insides pulled out and eaten, and there had been at least 2 or 3 other victims, a bit vague though about which son of Mae Chan or maybe Mae Joy had been eaten. No-one present had seen any of the victims themselves but it was known who had, and someone had actually seen the ghost around.

These were ordinary villagers, real people on the ground, and they weren't lying - they believed every word. A bit later when father-in-law was around, he said what a load of crap. An aunt who is a bit of a phu yai in the village thought it was a great story, but added the only person in the village who'd died was the old lady and her body had no wounds of any kind and one of the other supposed victims had been in to buy something from her that morning

I think there could well be something in the kidnapping stories but I really don't believe in the more sensational aspects.

It seems that maybe, just maybe, this tragedey could have been avoided. Why on earth didn't the driver stop when asked to?

Difficult if the brakes failed.

The driver was arrested but I feel it would be wrong to make him the scapegoat. He already knew there was a brake problem so he was wrong to go on. But let's face it - that's probably normal working conditions for a lot of these bus drivers, something that's not out of the ordinary. As someone has already pointed out, he would probably have lost his job if he'd refused to go on. And maybe the passengers wouldn't have thanked him at the time.

The only way this tragedy will lead to changes is if company executives do serious time. They should take responsibility for the maintenance of their vehicles and the conditions the drivers work under.

But I expect the company willl cough up 10,000 baht / victim, the driver will do heavy time and nothing will change.

Thailand is truly amazing, but I don't think even Thailand would arrest a dead person nor send him to prison:

"Rescuers found 28 dead and burnt bodies including that of the bus driver, and another died in a nearby hospital."

Bangkok Post

I was going from a radio report I heard this morning which also said he had only minor injuries. Matichon reports it's not known whether the driver escpaed or not and Thai Rath lists him among the injured.

Who knows?

The driver was arrested but I feel it would be wrong to make him the scapegoat. He already knew there was a brake problem so he was wrong to go on. But let's face it - that's probably normal working conditions for a lot of these bus drivers, something that's not out of the ordinary. As someone has already pointed out, he would probably have lost his job if he'd refused to go on. And maybe the passengers wouldn't have thanked him at the time.

The only way this tragedy will lead to changes is if company executives do serious time. They should take responsibility for the maintenance of their vehicles and the conditions the drivers work under.

But I expect the company willl cough up 10,000 baht / victim, the driver will do heavy time and nothing will change.

Your wife doesn't seem to have a problem and probably knows him a lot better than you do. If you would trust your daughter with him, I would think your sons would be fine too.

It doesn't make any difference with or without work permit as prices for Thais and foreigners are the same. 250 baht for adults and (I think) 150 for kids but slightly cheaper on a weekday, 235 baht for adults.

They do have an accomodation (luxury air-conditioned tents) and activity package. I'm not sure how much that is but know it's fairly expensive, around 3000 baht / night / adult .

Kids can get walked around on a horse. The tour is OK, with some short shows and demonstrations that the kids will enjoy but maybe hot in the summer.

I'm really not attacking - just trying to get the genuine, known facts.

I'm a father myself so I wouldn't dismiss such reports and I can quite easily believe kidnapping stories (as confirmed) - and therefore don't doubt that there are wanted posters.

Usually I watch quite a lot of TV but haven't done so that much in the last week or two so haven't seen the reports there. Which is perhaps why I have not yet been convinced by the stories of bodies with missing organs.

(And to try and balance things up a bit - I am convinced that the stories about people being robbed while in a trance are genuine, though whether a substance, hypnotism or some other kind of psychological technique is used, I wouldn't like to say.)

The fact that the two Bangkok English dailies haven't talked about it doesn't surprise me. How often are Eissan-related problems discussed in those papers, apart from politically sensitive issues or stories related to rice or the weather? And of course there's the tourism industry ($$$) to consider.....

If this was happening on the scale suggested here, then it would be covered. As I said before, I wouldn't dismiss the whole thing but I don't believe there is anything going on as widespread as the rumours would have you believe - and I'm not as yet convinced by the bodies with organs missing.

Apart from Farma's BIL, who can confirm some kidnappings, no-one has actually got anything firsthand, have they?

That is a pretty substantial mistake to someone who fully understands English. I guess by now I should expect such things...

I would say your understanding of the way 'should' can be used in English is too narrow.

I first heard of something like this more than 10 years ago when children were supposedly being taken from around our local market in Samutprakan. At that time, I couldn't help noticing that we didn't actually know anyone who'd had a child taken - it was always someone that knew someone etc.

A bit later I heard the story in Ubon (I seem to remember the vans were black then though). Kidnappings seemed to have occurred in other districts and again we never knew anyone or heard of anyone we know having a child taken.

It does seem to be one of those stories that does the rounds. That doesn't mean there's nothing to it. As a father myself, I know it's something you can't just discount. But I would be interested to hear if anyone knows personally a family that has lost a child.

It doesn't sound like the wai should be a problem, even if she's a younger sister I don't see why she'd react like that.

You also said

whenever I tried to thank her she just smiled and did her best to look away or look at my wife to quickly focus attention on something else

She's just very shy perhaps? Uncomfortable to be directly addressed by a foreigner/ in English?

What did your wife think?

Quick confession.

Not really.

Police claimed that after long interrogation, Anuchi confessed

He just needed wearing down.

especially in those "www" days every plonker can spread his fantasies unedited, uninformed rumors and urban legends galore. I prefer to get my non-mainstream information by directly conversing with people which are known for their peer reviewed publications. And there are many papers and studies available in English as well, and for others there are translation services.

Many of the culture specific nuances will only be experienced via immersion, by direct communication with people of different social and class backgrounds.

I don't disagree with any that. Obviously you have to use your intelligence, I take that as a given. Of course you should talk to people. And of course you can go through translation services - but being able to read means that's an unnecessary step and you are less likely to miss out on something you would find interesting.

A lot of good points in this thread.

It highlights why it is worth learning to read the language because it gives you more chance to take in and think about ways in which the language is used. It also gives you access to sources of information and ideas that go against the mainstream - particularly in these www days.