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pogal
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In the place refuge center where I work there have been many cases in the last week of food poisoning from the pre-cooked meals. These refuge centers are full of people trying to do good for sure but they do not have the expertise to do it because they are all volunteers. I think many people have this western vision of the army running things all regimental and smooth. The food is being cooked outdoors in an area that gets more and more dirty everyday, hygiene is that of the local street vendors but on a massive scale. At night there are plenty of rats around mopping up the leftovers. I eat out of necessity choosing the foods I think have least chance of being contaminated. My friend just spent 2 days in hospital with severe diarrhea which could have only come from the food at the center.
People have also been donating expired food. I saw some milk powder for babies and the tin looked a little rusty so I check the date and it was 6 months expired. We then started checking all the dates on everything and there were many expired date of various goods. I'm sure they meant well donating it but particularly the baby food and medicines, they should have known better.
They are literally begging for volunteer doctors right now too! I asked why the government has not supplied a doctor and the manager said they are all too busy out in the public areas trying to get in the media. "Stuck in a out of the way relief shelter is not so good for their publicity profile" he said with some bitterness. At first there were lots of volunteer doctors from private hospitals but now almost none, as time wears on people are getting tired and also frustrated with management of almost everything. The manager would like to close the relief center down but just can't because there is nowhere else for these people to go. He is constantly fighting for even basic supplies and services. The government agencies come around, take photos for their portfolios and then leave promising supplies that never come or come too late.
Really the government is doing very little, its the NGO's, private companies and individual volunteers that are doing the majority of all the work and donations. There is supposed to be a huge budget for all of this.... where is it? I'm quite upset about the suffering of these people and the lack of help from the government, I'm not surprised that in 1995 the people burnt down the council building, I wouldn't be surprised if they do it again this year......
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Actually 90% of the time it is not the government distributing the food anyway, its volunteers. The volunteers get the food donated to them by normal people and/or businesses. They use their own vehicles, petrol and time to do this out of the goodness of their hearts. Many people do not understand this but next time you meet one of these people just ask them. They will tell you the same story (90%) of the time. It's true there is little coordination because everyone is doing their own thing, privately or with Foundations, NGO's etc. They never have or never will coordinate with each other, its just the way it is. Every now and then the government will "request" a larger organization to give aid to certain places but otherwise its entirely up to the groups themselves where and when they donate or help. The government actually has very little to do with all the rescue and relief efforts going on. The volunteers are awesome! Pity people do not understand this, road spiking is just pure ignorance, stupidity born of desperation. Its a sad mess Thailand is in right now with so many people suffering, I am volunteering everyday and talk to many people, there stories are really sad and just make me thankful how lucky I am. There's a lot of unseen misery around but if you take the time to sit down and listen you will hear so many sad stories that you could have never guessed looking at the victims smiling faces. Can't wait till it's all over.
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These are just some observations over the last month, I am not an expert in anything or bashing anyone ok:)
I have worked all over BKK (and Ayhuttya) and the water is getting putrid in some areas, in some it seems ok, clear and free flowing, but in many its dark and obviously badly polluted. Walking through the water, which is inevitable sometimes, you can feel the garbage streaming over your legs and under your feet and of course the smell is a dead give away.
Mosquitoes (people keep arguing this with me) are "almost" everywhere in very large numbers. with a 5 day to 2 week+ larval cycle (depending on the breed) I'm sure we can expect a lot more. Main concern with this I believe is dengue although I have been bitten hundreds of times so far without catching anything.
People are still catching fish in streets and gardens and eating them, I'm not sure how the biological process works for pollution to make its way into the food chain but I have already seen many cases of food poisoning from various places.
I've seen stalls still selling food in ankle deep polluted water.
Still very little, or no, bottled water around some areas. People still buying in bulk when there are. NGO's buying straight from the factories so their distribution schedules are all out of sink.
Volunteers (who make up about 80% of the relief workforce) have dramatically decreased because they have to go back to work, some come in after work for a few hours if they can which is really admirable. I'm also amazed at people taking makeshift boats to work! or walking in a suit through shallow water to get to a bus or taxi holding their polished shoes in their hands with pants rolled up to their knees! Very resilient people are the Thais:)
I was surprised too at the reduction in supplies at a local makeshift hospital, half of the supplies gone already after 3 days I was off sick! The red plastic " hazardous waste" bags are being stored in a very larger red plastic bag (No hard protective container) next to the food serving area. Volunteers nurses and doctors look at it in puzzlement but have not said anything. I now do not eat there anymore and wear mask and gloves as soon as I get in the place. a definite increase in diarrhea related illness, so far 90% are treated with conventional medicines while 10% are transported to hospital for "reluctant" (this is another story in itself) admission.
Some cuts are very infected! I haven't seen infections like this for a long time (Since the Tsunami). I advise anyone who receives any sized cut in this water to have it treated and keep an eye on it until it's completely healed. A small cut can become badly infected on the inside very fast. I have seen a glass full of green pus removed from what looked like a seemingly tiny uninfected cut. Also lots of animal bites from cats and dogs to snakes and crocodiles. Still a few around apparently.
But I have seen these kinds of things before, and while I am paranoid about disease and infection, in the end none of the plagues that people predicted ever happened in many of the past floods and Tsunami I worked in. It seems at odds with what the experts say about cleanliness, etc. but somehow nature often (not always) seems to find a way around these "potential" lethal cocktails of bugs and bacteria. I'm hoping (or perhaps praying) that this will be one of those times although the huge areas of flooded land are like nothing I have seen before and the time span a lot longer than previous occasions.
I just hope everyone is ok and can cope with this prolonged situation. Please take care of yourselves everyone who is affected by these floods:)
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One thing I dislike about all this is that the government is "directing" rescue and relief services all over Thailand as if it owns them but after working with the floods for over a month now I would really like to know the percentage of flood supplies that the government is actually supplying because from what I have seen from Ayutthya to Bangkok is that over 90%+++ is by NGO's, companies, etc... For example, almost all those supplies at FROC are donated from individuals, companies,etc. and to make it worse to see all those supplies at FROC going to waste in piles like at a rubbish dump is criminal.
The army only seems to be putting sandbags in place and very occasionally rescuing people from flood areas (in combination with NGO rescue services who seem to be doing more than 90%+++ of that work too).
In reality it seems that the government is merely "directing" all the volunteer groups. Even the relief centers and makeshift hospitals are manned and supplied by volunteers (including medicine). No government doctors or workers here. The government "officials do come through to take photos but then leave moments after. (This I know because this is the area I work in).
I believe without the goodness of Thai people and the culture of volunteerism in Thailand the government would not be able to handle this flood relief at all. I'd really like to see actual statistics on what the government has supplied and done... I think it would show them having achieved very little and I think all the praise for relief and rescue efforts should go to all these volunteer groups and to all the people that donated to them.
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Post moved to here: My link
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Where are the pumps Thaksin claimed to buying in South Korea two or three weeks ago? . . . Well, I'm waiting. . . . chirrrp.
Maybe at the Thai customs. Somebody must pay the import duties on the items.
Actually that is not a joke. I work for an NGO and we still pay duties on all donated goods and relief supplies: No exceptions.
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Does anyone know where medicine centres are in Bangkok to get preventative medicines for the mentioned diseases.
Not at our one
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I am working in one of these health centers that's been open for about 6 days(?) now and here as some observations.
There are about 1500 people and slowly growing in the relief center. In the makeshift hospital we have about 50 people "admitted" with various ailments. Diarrhea and other stomach ailments accounts for about 50% of those ailments. about 10% are children (all with diarrhea). Each day we have about 20 people as out-patients who are either given medicine and sent back to the main halls or "admitted" into our makeshift hospital for observation.
People who are in serious condition can be sent to hospitals but they are getting more and more reluctant to admit them themselves, which is rather unhelpful, so they are given medicine and sent back to us.
The medical staff consist of volunteer student doctors year 4 and 5 (some good, some not), nurses, volunteers (with no medical experience at all), and overseen by a doctor (in the daytime only).
Sometimes other doctors turn up from various hospitals who have come in to volunteer themselves in their free time.
All of these volunteers are constantly changing so there is little consistency.
Room is getting funky and 1 toilet for men and 1 for women. The head Doctor is getting a bit overwhelmed by it all but managing. I don't think he envisaged this little health center being turned into a hospital.
A steady flow of people from various government departments, coming in taking photos and leaving, including the CDC.
If there was a disease outbreak here, I do not believe it could be managed. An example is when the CDC was asked for red bags and containers for hazardous waste we had to wait 3 days and only then did we get the plastic bags, still no containers. Bags are being stored outside in the car park, someone is supposed to come and dispose of them but as yet, has not.
With what they have, they are doing ok but I am surprised there are no army or government doctors here full time OR that the government hospitals are not being more helpful (although I believe they are also busy and not managing well).
Plenty of medicine, food and bottled water.
I didn't go today because I am sick with a cold(?), one of the hazards of working in a place full of sick people I guess so I decided to not go so I wouldn't spread it around, unfortunately that's not the attitude of the Thai workers, they are admired for still coming into work sick:/
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Robert: The mosquitoes are not where I live (in Klong Toei), but where I went to help in the North area of Bangkok near Nonta Buri. I guess because its been flooded there the longest there are so many mosquitoes. I don't really know why there were so many, I'm just telling you that's what I found there.
Plumeria: Agree with your comment about money in foundations getting diverted. Donate GOODS, not money. (As Jirapa suggested), but even then we have all seen the huge stockpiles sitting at FROC going nowhere, its hard to know who to donate to... I guess just do it and hope for the best, I'm sure it will get to someone somehow:)
Kun Matt: Agree 200%
Harryfrompattaya: Unfortunately I don't have a rich wife but I have been working as a volunteer for 11 years now in Thailand. Despite my low salary I have probably donated (or spent) over 1million baht on helping others. I have zero savings as a result.
I'm up at 6am everyday helping people in the floods and home again at midnight... I do not have an empty heart...
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Right now at the Ramkhamhaeng Stadium there are around 1000+ people relocated from Don Muang/Thamasat area. There are so many cases of infections etc that people are being transported to hospitals hourly by volunteer rescue workers but the rescue workers say its not working out since some government hospitals are becoming "difficult" about accepting patients since there is no government policy on this right now.
The workers are already tired and are having to pay for the transport costs themselves. Consequently the amount of volunteers is diminishing daily (This was also reported from Don Muang).
Also some hospitals have said they would send staff and vehicles to help but they have not turned up as yet. (Director of the Sports Stadium told me this).
Under the SOE, the Red Cross would take over and could better manage the situation as they have done in the past. It's a pity they can't bypass the SOE rule and let the Red Cross do the good job they normally do in coordinating all government and NGO services.
As mentioned in the article, I think the true emergency of these floods will be post floods. After only one day in the water I had skin rashes. People are spending hours daily in the water traveling or helping. In many areas after dark mosquitoes are in there billions, I stayed in the water to avoid getting bitten only my face was uncovered and I spent the whole time swatting them just to be able to breathe without inhaling some, and then in the back of my mind were thoughts of snakes (and to a lesser extent crocodiles) in the waters around me.
Terrible conditions for people. I can't imagine people in Ayutthya have been living in these conditions for a month now. My heart really goes out to them.
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Klongs around Ramkhamhaeng and Sukhumvit still the same. Is there ANYONE who can report a rise in water or NEW flooding in areas around BKK? Yesterday it was announced overnight flooding but as yet I have not seen on TV or heard from the internet about this? Anyone got any hands-on news?
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Right now I have heard that the coordination of emergency services is in complete disarray as compared with the red shirt protests when the Red Cross was coordinating it all. But because there is no SOE then its up to all the many many many individual rescue services and several government emergency services. So far we have seen incompetent and irresponsible behavior from most of them. There are so many agencies and so many rescue NGO's around and they all want to be boss, or at least not listen to another agencies bosses, and so... complete disorganization is the result.
I honestly don't know if a SOE is a good thing or not but as far as rescue coordination goes, it is essential.
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I noticed in BKK that some Tollways are still charging and some are not. Also I have heard that they still charge rescue workers and ambulances tolls too. Something very wrong with that
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I agree with the story about conflicting stories, I thought things were getting stable but today 1000 flood victims just moved into the Stadium at Ramkhamhaeng, about 10 of them were taken to hospital after an army of nurses filtered through them all.
Plenty of food and water at these refuges.... I wonder if that's why the shops are empty? I wonder where they are buying all the water from?
Big C Ram and all other local shops out of water and very low on other basics.
Mosquitoes in Nonta area were I went were in there millions like I have never seen. Someone else said they weren't a problem. (perhaps only in some areas).
Just an obsevation: the majority of the donated food and water I have seen around is coming from NGO's and companies and regular people... Out and about in the floods I have not seen any army or government agencies giving out supplies. (Thats not to say they aren't doing it, I just haven't seen them doing in it and I've been up and down Ayuttyha and Nonta and BKK areas a lot in the last month). I just find that strange, since back in our own countries we would expect the government to handle all of that. Perhaps I am wrong: Has anyone else seen the army or government agencies supplying their own food and water?
It's quite sad to see all those homeless people arrive today, they all looked so quiet, timid and resigned... and so thankful whenever you offered them something.... really really sad:(
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Yesterday I went to help in the Nontaburi area. The conditions were so much worse than what I have been seeing on TV. There does seem to be plenty of food and bottled water but the water is putrid and mosquito infested. After the sun went down there were so many mosquitoes that it was hard to breathe without inhaling them! I spent most of the time in the 1.5m putrid water just to stop being bitten. I remember a little girl crying as her legs were covered in mosquito bites. 7 bodies were taken out yesterday apparently all died from electric shock since there is power still running through all these flooded Mu-Ban's. The water seemed to be moving at a very slow pace and in the one day (and night) I was there only seemed to rise a couple of cm.
Many people are staying in their 2 story houses living in the 2nd story. 1 story houses are of course unlivable. I'm not sure why so many people are staying although there was a very slow exodus throughout the day. I cannot even imagine what it must be like in Ayhutthya after a month of conditions like this. I came home late last night feeling depressed and guilty for taking a hot shower and putting the air-con on as I thought of all those people suffering. I will definitely be going back to help. I'm not religious but found myself praying this does not last for the weeks they are predicting
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"If you encounter a crocodile, don't panic," it advised in a statement. "Normally they are afraid of human beings. So just use a wooden stick or your hand to bang the water and the crocodile will swim away."
Strange, thats how they attract crocodiles in Africa (seen it on Discovery Channel the other night:) .... must be the breeding makes them react differently here...
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And here comes the rain! Looks like coming from the North or east. Big Black rain clouds... bummer
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"It is said that for man, the most difficult challenge of all is to change the way we think. But with this flooding crisis, change the way it thinks, our government must."
I'm pretty sure that was Yoda who said that!
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New advertising campaign opportunity "Bangkok, the Venice of the East"
Here's what she should do. And keep the city flooded, until they change the PM.....
Actually I think this is the picture you were looking for...
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PM orders floodgates in Bkk to be opened; 4 major canals will be used to drain water from the North; water levels will not swell over banks
So why leave it until now?
LOL
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The water has to go ! they have to help the water to go, to open the way , to make in emergency new canals using explosives if necessary to help the water to avoid important and critical areas.
The water has to leave, it's not good to block the water, the water level rises because it can't leave. Help the water to leave using non urban and non industrial areas, open ways to make it flow to the sea!
Actually I think the initial plan was to block it and then let it ................evaporate............
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Was there ever really any doubt by anyone with a working brain?
The thing of it is, this isn't the fault of the current government, but every government for the past 20+ years. Thailand is a country that has annual flooding. But it worsens each year when rampant deforestation is allowed for resorts and private mansions, which results is fewer trees and other types of growth which can soak up the rain, as well as provide stability for the soil. It happens when factories and housing estates are built in low lying areas, there by impeding the natural flow of water. And all of this is caused by the greed which permeates Thai society and thinking at every level. "Live for today, make as much money as you can, and who cares about tomorrow" should be the motto for Thailand, not "Land of Smiles". I don't see a lot of smiling going on now.
No, wait, I take that back. I see a few from those here in the north who are smiling and saying that it's about time that "precious Bangkok" is finally getting a taste of what the rest of the country has to deal with on an almost yearly basis.
This flood is a tragedy which I doubt any Thai government could effectively deal with, or could have prevented under the current circumstances. The loss of lives and property, as well as businesses is sad by any means. The best Thailand can hope for is that they will actually LEARN from this, and then take the necessary steps to develop a new water management program that will benefit ALL of Thailand, and not just BKK. Far too many in BKK think that they are the "center of the universe" when it comes to Thailand, and don't really care about the "provinces". Perhaps now they will wake up and realize that what happens in the provinces, CAN and WILL affect Bangkok.
Time will tell.
Your first paragraph has some credibility.
The rest of your post fits right into the "burn Bangkok" mentality and contributes to the disunity issue that the current Govt claims to be trying to repair.
Did you ever think about where those workers in those industrial estates are from? It's not Silom Road.
Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension skills. No where in my post did I express anything close to what you call the "burn Bangkok" mentality. I stated a FACT that there are some people here in the north who are happy to finally see BKK get a taste of what the rest of the provinces suffer on an almost yearly basis, with little to no real help, while those in BKK scream about saving their precious city, as if Bangkok IS Thailand.
I have seen more than one poster in the "other" newspaper who has clearly stated, they DON'T CARE about what happens to the rest of Thailand, but BKK must be saved AT ALL COSTS. From your comments to me, it would appear that's the camp you are in as well. The flooding situation in Thailand has been ignored for far too long by far too many governments, and while I am not in favor in any way of seeing more damage and destruction to ANY part of Thailand, if it takes Bangkok finally getting a sample of what the rest of the country suffers from to finally make the changes that will benefit ALL of Thailand, and NOT just Bangkok, then so be it.
Sorry if I upset you Just1Voice. No offense intended.
Bangkok city accounts for more than 40% of the country's GNP and if we include the suburbs and the industrial estates it's probably over 50%. This was the basis for my comments on the floods and the mentality of people (and I don't mean you) who have the "Burn Bangkok" or "let Bangkok suffer" mentality. When Bangkok floods, people living in Udorn or Surit Thani will suffer, even though they don't understand or realize it. For what it's worth, my home is a lot closer to Udorn than it is to Bangkok. And also BTW it isn't "Bangkok" or a "Province" that suffers, it's the people that suffer and there are quite a lot more THai people (from everywhere in Thailand) living in Bangkok than in any other Province.
In any case I didn't intend to attack you personally and am not going to do that now in this post either.
Are you guys STILL talking about the Romans!??? 555555555555555555555555555555
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Looking at the government's actions (inaction) to date I am sort of reminded of Nero fiddling while Rome burned..
Roman contributions include;
Architectural styles : the Roman were inspired by the Greeks. But they were the ones to use extensively the arch, mosaics and frescoes. They built the largest free-standing dome in the world until the 20th century (the Pantheon in Rome, 43m of diametre, or 1m wider than the Bruneleschi's Duomo in Firenze).
Aqueducts and viaducts merit a separate category. They were the ancestors of modern viaduct (suspension bridges, etc.). Aqueducts would bring drinkable water from hundreds of kilometres away and were designed with just the right inclination so that the water would not run too fast (and erode the stone), nor too slow (and evaporate or become muddy). Combined with canalisations and sewers, they enabled a city like Rome to sustain a population of over 1 million.
The Romans developed spectator sports beyond anything seen until then. The Greeks invented the Olympic Games (incl. stadiums), but the Romans gave us the idea of mass entertainment.
The Roman highways were so straight, plane and resistant that some are still used nowadays (e.g. Via Appia). Many modern European highways follow the old Roman highways, as they used the most direct route to connect cities (and most Roman cities still exist nowadays).
Wine-making was not invented by the Romans, but they planted so many vines throughout the empire, that they created a tradition in France, south-western Germany and Mediteranean countries lasting to this day. The world's greatest wines are direct heirs to Roman wines.
The Roman weren't the first to come up with central or floor heating or hot baths, but they certainly spread its used across the empire. Ironically, it is the Japanese who are fans of hot springs and baths nowadays, not the Europeans. But famous thermal springs still exist in Europe, and were especially popular in the 19th century. Some have Roman origins.
The Roman Senate was supposedly founded by Romulus 2756 years ago. The Republic is "only" 2514 years old, but was one of the oldest such system in the world, and one that deeply influenced modern democratic states. The Greek idea of "democracy" is probably further from the current "democratic" system than was the elitist Roman Republic (in fact, politicians nowadays are almost always the same few oligarchs, like in Roman times).
The Julian Calendar, name after its inventor (Gaius Julius "Caesar"), is almost identical to the modern Western calendar reformed by Pope Gregory 1600 years later, and still used by many national Orthodox churches. It has/had all the current months, which names all have meanings in Latin : January (from "Janus", god of the beginning of times), February (from "Februa" a Roman festival), March (from "Mars", the god of war), April (from "aprire" meaning "open", referring to the blossoming of spring), May (from "Maia", goddess of the fertility), June (from "Juno", goddess of women and marriage, hence the expression "June bride"), July (from Julius Caesar himself), August (from emperor Augustus), September ("7th", as March was the 1st month at the time, and September was thus the 7th month), October ("8th"), etc.
The Romans seem to have been the ones to introduce the system of 3-course meal (starter, main dish, desert), inherited by most Western cultures. Note that in India, China, Japan, etc. there is no such tradition.
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I wonder how much he paid for his posting there? Must have had to pay more than normal!
I have put it off for some time now but I will definitely be warning others to just stay away from Phuket (Patong) from now.
Rats Feeding On Trash Increase Disease Threat In Flooded Bangkok
in Thailand News
Posted
He is bashing the government (and deservedly so) not all Thais. His friends are Thai. He is helping Thais and has praise and admiration for those "normal" Thais (as I do), he feels sorry for them and is frustrated about those in power as most of us are no matter what government is in power (I don't agree about the Red Shirt comment but then I don't live where he does). These comments are born from frustration at the government and people who abuse their power because, I believe, the farang that live here love this country and it's people but they are frustrated to see the inequalities, corruption and sadness that many of our Thai friends live with. My own negative (and sometimes positive) comments and frustration are because I love it here and I spend all my time helping or supporting others to try and make peoples lives more bearable. My best friends are Thai and I love them like family and so I can understand this mans comments. I'm sure he loves Thailand very much, probably a lot more than you by the sounds of it. Watching people suffer can bring out the worst in us all.
How do you figure that this is "Thai bashing"?